Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;607022]The way I feel about Zorn is this: After the loss yesterday I saw one thing I thought I'd never see a coach do; hang his head. Right out on the sidelines with the last few seconds ticking away. NOT good. Simply put, it was a man defeated. It looked like all his will and hope got sucked out of him while each second ticked away. Then he went into the press conference and B.Mitch put it best... And I know most people want Mitch's head on a stake around here, but he said that every time Zorn goes to the press conference he goes to answer the questions of the press. So what does he do? He answers the questions. So. It's not that Zorn is doing the wrong thing, as B.Mitch put it, he's doing his job. But it feels like he's just going through the motions. I feel like Zorn is doing what he does, because he has to do it. I'll say it, I don't think he has the love of HCing or the passion to do it. I feel like he's coaching because that's what they paid him to do so... He's gonna do it. There's no personality to him. And you don't have to be boisterous and throwing chairs angry, but you gotta have some sort of... Oomph to you. Zorn doesn't have that. I can't remember the last time he did have that. That "Hip hip hooray" moment last year? Gibbs had it almost all the time. I don't ever think I ever saw Gibbs hang his head, at least not in front of the cameras. Hanging your head means you've given up on not only yourself, but your players. Players hang their head after the game but your coach is supposed to be your rallying cry, the one who won't let you hang your head even if your loss was incredibly embarrassing. When your coach is out there hanging their head with you? Something is extremely wrong.

Overall Zorn is in way over his head and someone needs to start hitting the brakes (or at least consider it) on this runaway train before we crash. Maybe Zorn has the potential to be a good HC someday, but IMO I think he's lacking some of the core of HC fundamentals (other ones that I didn't talk about but I'm sure you can throw a few out there).[/quote]

Wow. Did not see the game (only painful highlights) or the post-game conference, but this is sad.

You're right though.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

wow, you must be the only surviving Zorn supporter on here. Yes one game from .500. This year the skins were given a gift with the cupcake schedule. Easily could have gone 5-1. The schedule will not get any easier.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Angry;607041][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Jim Zorn is only 1 game back from .500. There are still 11 games left this season. There is still time to turn around. There is no need for a knee jerk reaction and fire him at anytime during the season. Just let him finish it out and have a chance to right the ship (since everybody want to compare a football team to a boat these days). It can't get any worse and if nothing else an experience like this will build some character. In Jim Zorn’s defense he has the hardest job in the NFL and he hasn't thrown the towel in like some other NFL head coach who couldn't even make it through one season in Atlanta. The man is fighting his guts out but he is stuck in quicksand. Let him finish the job that he is getting paid to do.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

If the team was a ship: The Captain would be counter flooding to stop the listing from the three fish that already went in. He knows that there's not much he can do, the boilers are out. The best seaman are exhausted from trying to put out the fires and reinforcing bulk-heads.

The owners of the ship are baffled. In their eyes the good ship lollipop had good enough armour (1 inch) to stop torpedos and a great AA battery. Radar/Sonar, bah, that's witch craft!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=REDSKINS1980;607045]wow, you must be the only surviving Zorn supporter on here. Yes one game from .500. [B]This year the skins were given a gift with the cupcake schedule. Easily could have gone 5-1. The schedule will not get any easier.[/B][/quote]

That's what is scary.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

I just heard a......shocking stat. Yesterday was the first time in 10 F..N GAMES that we scored a first qtr TD..........
unbelievable

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=REDSKINS1980;607045]wow, you must be the only surviving Zorn supporter on here. Yes one game from .500. This year the skins were given a gift with the cupcake schedule. Easily could have gone 5-1. The schedule will not get any easier.[/quote]

No, I just believe that it is stupid to try and can him right now. An interim head coach isn't going to turn this thing around either. All firing him would do is deflate the team even more than it already is.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Angry;607055]No, I just believe that it is stupid to try and can him right now. An interim head coach isn't going to turn this thing around either. All firing him would do is deflate the team even more than it already is.[/quote]

yes, you're right. no matter what, the season is done. a new coaching staff will not turn it around, but it gives them the opportunity to evaluate the team and focus on the needs to build and prepare the team for next year. Right now we have players that are not contributing at all, a new staff will help weed them out.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;606706]Welcome to the board brah...

Sorry we couldn't meet under better circumstances.[/quote]

Yeah Man...this seems like a legit board.

At this point, it seems like we have a wasted season on our hands. I say we start unloading and begin to put things back together (I hate using the word rebuild, kinda scary :(). Hopefully, the root of our problem, Vinny Cerrato is gone, or at least relieved of his GM duties (or lack there of). Once Dan Snyder realizes that he is not a GM, nor is qualified to be a GM, then we can move on from there. I would like to see some positive changes, because not only is the Front Office in shambles, the locker room is in chaos

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=REDSKINS1980;607071]yes, you're right. no matter what, the season is done. a new coaching staff will not turn it around, but it gives them the opportunity to evaluate the team and focus on the needs to build and prepare the team for next year. Right now we have players that are not contributing at all, a new staff will help weed them out.[/quote]

That is what game film, offseason workouts, and training camp are for.

BTW, what unit are you in? I used to be in 1/9 FA.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Zorn was picked for this reason so a new vetern coach becomes available. He is already fired, he just hasn't been given his walking papers.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=PainTrainCHOOCHOO;606705]As long as Jim Zorn is the HC, I, and I would hope most fans be behind him. Although I am not a fan of his work and what he has done here, he is still our coach. Although firing a HC mid season isn't a good idea, our situation calls for change. The lack of a sense of urgency is what is killing this team. I personally don't think Jim Zorn stands a chance at finishing the season due to the way Dan Snyder deals with HC's in the past that aren't named Joe Gibbs.

By the way I am new here![/quote]

Uh, can I sue for name infringement? Kidding, welcome to the board.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[INDENT][/INDENT]Part of this decision is [B]what you believe makes a good football team[/B]. I've always believed that with a just few "superstar" exceptions, the talent level on most teams is just a hair difference. If you were to rate all the MLBs on the NFL rosters from 1 to 64 (assuming every team has just for right now) throw out the top 5 and the bottom 5 and I bet there isn't much difference in [B]physical talents[/B]. A couple tenths of a second difference in a 40 yrd dash, couple less reps in the bench press, etc.. The key difference in how a player plays and if a team wins is coaching. Granted there are superstars who can rely on amazing talent alone, (I don't care how you coached Barry Sanders he was just going to run on you all day) but for the most players the training and the system are key.


Look at the team that has had the most success in the last 10 years, the Pats. They won the Superbowl in 2001, 2003, and 2004. Look at the starting lines up from the 2001 game vs the 2004 game only [B]5 starters out of 22 were the same.[/B] They didn't win because of talent per se they won because of coaching and "the system". Belichick is not a genius at the draft. From 2004-2008 the Pats had 21 picks in rounds 1-4, (these are guys who you expect to make the team, I didn't count the whole draft), out of those 21 less then half, 10 are on still on the team. That's not horrible, that's not great either.


All I am saying is that coaching and "the system" beats the heck out of "waking up the players" or firing someone to be the scape goat. If Danny boy fires Zorn now, there is no chance to do the types of things that you do in training camp and Preseason that makes a great football team. Just wait till the season is over, show the door to Zorn and throw a boat load of money at a [B]PROVEN HEAD COACH.[/B]

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=smootsmack;606336]zorn had that same fire last year at 4-1...look at him now[/quote]
hip hip






















stay medium!!!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Luxorreb;606298]I don't blame Zorn. I blame Cerrato and Snyder for the whole mess. And boy what a mess they've made for themselves. Kills me thinking about wasting our 2 #2s last year on non existant WR's. We coulda had atleast 1 OL. I say let B Mitch coach em up.[/quote]
If Danny Smith got the interim head coach spot I wouldn't mind seeing B. Mitch talk to the special teams units. I doubt Snyder would be a fan of that idea though, Portis would throw a fit, etc

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Hijinx;607272][INDENT][/INDENT]Part of this decision is [B]what you believe makes a good football team[/B]. I've always believed that with a just few "superstar" exceptions, the talent level on most teams is just a hair difference. If you were to rate all the MLBs on the NFL rosters from 1 to 64 (assuming every team has just for right now) throw out the top 5 and the bottom 5 and I bet there isn't much difference in [B]physical talents[/B]. A couple tenths of a second difference in a 40 yrd dash, couple less reps in the bench press, etc.. The key difference in how a player plays and if a team wins is coaching. Granted there are superstars who can rely on amazing talent alone, (I don't care how you coached Barry Sanders he was just going to run on you all day) but for the most players the training and the system are key.


Look at the team that has had the most success in the last 10 years, the Pats. They won the Superbowl in 2001, 2003, and 2004. Look at the starting lines up from the 2001 game vs the 2004 game only [B]5 starters out of 22 were the same.[/B] They didn't win because of talent per se they won because of coaching and "the system". Belichick is not a genius at the draft. From 2004-2008 the Pats had 21 picks in rounds 1-4, (these are guys who you expect to make the team, I didn't count the whole draft), out of those 21 less then half, 10 are on still on the team. That's not horrible, that's not great either.


All I am saying is that coaching and "the system" beats the heck out of "waking up the players" or firing someone to be the scape goat. If Danny boy fires Zorn now, there is no chance to do the types of things that you do in training camp and Preseason that makes a great football team. Just wait till the season is over, show the door to Zorn and throw a boat load of money at a [B]PROVEN HEAD COACH.[/B][/quote]

Having Tom Brady and a good offensive line doesn't hurt either.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;606443]Gibbs isn't the man, he had his second shot did the best he could with it and ended it on a sour note. Gibbs is a great coach and a class act all the way, but he won during his first stint with the best owner and best FO in the business backing him up, not to mention he was in pre cap and FA eras. Coach Gibbs wasn't a Bobby Beathred!!!! Simply put, Gibbs didn't have the positive atmosphere here the second time around to work his magic. Gibbs probably could come back to another team with a good FO and do some damage, but not here. At least he got to the playoffs with this dysfunctional FO. Just imagine what it could of been like with a FO that knew what it was doing?[/quote]
I don't know, I see him in more of a supervisory role.. and I hate to say it, but without ST's murder we prob don't make the 2nd playoffs because we didn't have the spirit.. I'd train every playoff game since our SB to get ST back, not that it's been many.

I think that he needs to keep his focus on his NASCAR team, seemed like he would come back around after that season ended. The guy was a notoriously long day worker just with the Skins, then he was leading his racing team too, I'd be very inclined to believe that he was a bit distracted by that.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Longtimefan;606503]I made the same point in an earlier thread last week. Someone responded, much to my amazement by saying "resources" or not, it Zorn's responsibility to get the job done. I'm still having a hard time trying to figure that one. Zorn SHOULD be able to make bricks out of straw..........or else.[/quote]
Teams that seem to be worse than us are beating us. So either their coaches are making it work.. or ours are doing more harm than good. Take it as you wish

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Hijinx;607272][INDENT][/INDENT]Part of this decision is [B]what you believe makes a good football team[/B]. I've always believed that with a just few "superstar" exceptions, the talent level on most teams is just a hair difference. If you were to rate all the MLBs on the NFL rosters from 1 to 64 (assuming every team has just for right now) throw out the top 5 and the bottom 5 and I bet there isn't much difference in [B]physical talents[/B]. A couple tenths of a second difference in a 40 yrd dash, couple less reps in the bench press, etc.. The key difference in how a player plays and if a team wins is coaching. Granted there are superstars who can rely on amazing talent alone, (I don't care how you coached Barry Sanders he was just going to run on you all day) but for the most players the training and the system are key.


Look at the team that has had the most success in the last 10 years, the Pats. They won the Superbowl in 2001, 2003, and 2004. Look at the starting lines up from the 2001 game vs the 2004 game only [B]5 starters out of 22 were the same.[/B] They didn't win because of talent per se they won because of coaching and "the system". Belichick is not a genius at the draft. From 2004-2008 the Pats had 21 picks in rounds 1-4, (these are guys who you expect to make the team, I didn't count the whole draft), out of those 21 less then half, 10 are on still on the team. That's not horrible, that's not great either.


All I am saying is that coaching and "the system" beats the heck out of "waking up the players" or firing someone to be the scape goat. If Danny boy fires Zorn now, there is no chance to do the types of things that you do in training camp and Preseason that makes a great football team. Just wait till the season is over, show the door to Zorn and throw a boat load of money at a [B]PROVEN HEAD COACH.[/B][/quote]

Nice post. Especially the 2nd paragraph, Patriots' draft success seems to be constantly inflated

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Miller101;606776]Come on dude. He's head and shoulders better than Zorn. He's been coaching offensive lines for over ten years. And been an assistant head coach for.....................6 years or so. Unlike Zorn, all of this has been at the pro level. [B] And look what he did to the Steelers offensive line when he was there[/B]. He had those guys playing smash mouth ball better than anyone in the league. He goes to Arizona, who had a horrendous line, and turns them around into one of the better lines in the league. Warner got killed in St. Louis, but he has time to throw in Arizona. You know why? Because of Russ baby! Bring in Russ![/quote]
Made Big Ben the most sacked QB?

Warner had a horrible o-line too

not sure what you were watching

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=SmootSmack;606922]There are some things that are Zorn's fault though. Case in point...calling timeout on 4th down and justifying it by saying "well we weren't sure where they were going to spot it. Would it be 4th and 2, 4th and 5, 4th and 7." That's weak. Even if the spot is questionable, it's never a matter of 5 yards. That's ridiculous[/quote]
Hell let JC call that one. He knows what he can hit, kinda

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=tryfuhl;607303]stay medium!!![/quote]

I don't know why Zorn still pushes the medium thing. Everytime I see him on camera during a game he looks like he's about to loose his mind. Then not to make light of him or anything but after the last few games he's been on the verge of tears. If anything thats not medium thats high and low.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Zorn sucks & so the whole organization. We'll finish 4-12

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=SmootSmack;606942]Some interesting comments by the reporters and some Redskins staffers following Zorn's press conference today

"He looks like he wants to cry"

'Dead man walking"

"Don't have this kind of pressure as a QB coach in Seattle"

"This is more depressing to watch than the game"

"Snyder needs to put him out of misery"[/quote]

I can't help but feel bad for Zorn, but he's clearly out of his league. And, I'd gladly be ripped to pieces by the media and the community to coach just one game for the Redskins.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;607818]I can't help but feel bad for Zorn, but he's clearly out of his league. And, I'd gladly be ripped to pieces by the media and the community to coach just one game for the Redskins.[/quote]

but GD we know you have no ego to get in the way, so all would be good on that front ;)

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;607818]I can't help but feel bad for Zorn, but he's clearly out of his league. And, I'd gladly be ripped to pieces by the media and the community to coach just one game for the Redskins.[/quote]

I feel bad for him too, he's definitely in over his head. Looking back I think he took on too much, too soon. He went from QB coach in Seattle to head coach/offensive coordinator/QB coach with the Skins. That's a heck of a leap. Couple that with a front office without a solid plan in place and it spells disaster. He was set up for failure from day 1. He would have been better off as OC only with an experienced HC above him to work with.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Paintrain;607262]Uh, can I sue for name infringement? Kidding, welcome to the board.[/quote]

HaHa ... didn't quite notice someone else on the board had almost exactly the same name..

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

We probably should've known this was coming when he called us by the wrong colors in his introductory press conference

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Mattyk72;607873]I feel bad for him too, he's definitely in over his head. Looking back I think he took on too much, too soon. He went from QB coach in Seattle to head coach/offensive coordinator/QB coach with the Skins. That's a heck of a leap. Couple that with a front office without a solid plan in place and it spells disaster. He was set up for failure from day 1. He would have been better off as OC only with an experienced HC above him to work with.[/quote]


Not only that but all the hoopla and craziness involved with that month long Head coach search. I started to think we would draft before we had a head coach. Plus he was hired first to be OC and then got the HC job, it was a shocker. Zorn has always felt like a temp head coach from day 1. I think that hurt him from the start.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

If he loses one or two more games, then he is in big trouble!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Check otu the video of Sherman SMith and Chick Hernandez on Redskins.com or [url=http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/multimedia_videos]CSN Washington: DC Sports Videos[/url].

I was listening to the video of Sherman Smith with Chick. IS this dude retarded? We all here the lines if the players execute then the play will work. But I think you should be a little wiser and say. What if this play doesn't work? Chick asks about the sweep. He replied its man on man and we have to make those plays. Chick prefaced the question by saying -- Why not run up the middle? Smith says we can run up the middle or sweep if players execute. So why not run up the middle? That's is my question. He seems very stubborn. How many times have we run this play and it not worked. True if you execute it will work. But we were playing a very good defensive line and were coming out of our end zone. So I would think you would want to run up the middle instead of a sweep. They need to stop playing finesse ball and play smash mouth. This is not the AFC Mr. Smith. This is the NFC and we are in the NFC East. I just think this guy is a stubborn idiot. Maybe he is the problem. Like they say don't keep doing the same thing and expect different results. Just simply retarded

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Ijaeger;608029]We probably should've known this was coming when he called us by the wrong colors in his introductory press conference[/quote]

Exactly. Then he said he was intimidated by the Lombardi's at the podium. or something to that effect. In over his head from day 1.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;607831]but GD we know you have no ego to get in the way, so all would be good on that front ;)[/quote]

What'd you say about my ego?!!! Grrrrr... :)

[quote=Mattyk72;607873]I feel bad for him too, he's definitely in over his head. Looking back I think he took on too much, too soon. He went from QB coach in Seattle to head coach/offensive coordinator/QB coach with the Skins. That's a heck of a leap. Couple that with a front office without a solid plan in place and it spells disaster. [b]He was set up for failure from day 1.[/b] He would have been better off as OC only with an experienced HC above him to work with.[/quote]

This is the real shame. If only Zorn had an opportunity with a different team -- a different owner -- then he might not have been ruined. Most people in the NFL know we're a team in disarray, but few truly understand the intricacies of our dysfunction. People think they actually have a chance to succeed here. They come with visions of sugar plums, and leave with a cynicism greater than they ever thought possible. This is where people come to have their spirit broken -- coaches, players and fans alike.