Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;559789]His last season he was 204-388 for 2474 yds and a 20-13 TD-INT Ratio[/quote]52.6 Comp % sucks, his TD-INT ratio is nothing to write home about.

[quote]Anyone who thinks Michael Vick sucked didnt watch him play. He wasnt a great passer but combined with his running ability he was a combo threat that won games.[/quote]I guess that's why ATL finished the 2006 season 2-7.

2006 Ranks - Points - 25th, Sacks Allowed - 7th, Sack % - 2nd, Yds per Pass Attempt - 28th. ATL had 18 fumbles in 2006, 9 were by Vick.

Anyone who knows football and watched Vick, knows he struggled once DCs figured out he couldn't throw the ball into the ocean standing on the shore. The guy never learned to read a defense, his HS coach used under 10 plays, Stinespring at VT isn't the best OC in D-I, when Vick got to the NFL he never progressed. Once teams figured out to just keep him in the pocket, he was garbage. He's definitely nothing more than damaged goods now. Let the AFL or someone else deal with this idiot.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

^ Agreed

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;559796]He sucked in that at times he barely could get 100 yards passing in some games. What did the rest of my original post state? Only pure passing QB's win the SB. That isn't BS, that is a fact. Look at McNabb. He had one SB appearance, and that was because as time went by he finally became a really strong passer. Vick is fun to watch, but he won't get to a SB anytime soon. My guess is the Vikings will pick him up to challenge for the starting position. Bottom line is that he is too one dimensional to be highly valued in the NFL.[/quote]

Im not saying hes a great or even good passer. All im saying is while in Atlanta he went 40-30-1. His last year in the league he threw for 20 TDs and also had 1000 yards rushing. If you say Vick sucks as a passer thats one thing and going by his career completion % id agree with you. When you factor in the complete package he doesnt suck though as a player.

That said like I have posted earlier I wouldnt want Vick on the Skins. Mainly because Campbell has just as much ability as a passer. Im mainly banking on Campbell stepping up his game in a contract year.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559797]52.6 Comp % sucks, his TD-INT ratio is nothing to write home about.[/quote]

I agree about the completion %. He isnt a good passer. When you factor in his TD-INT ratio with his 1000 yards on the ground he was a good overall player. All im saying is to blanket a statement that Vick sucks is misleading with the numbers he put up in his last year. If you honestly think Vick sucked in 2006 then I dont know what to say.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559785]His last 2 years of playing he sucked, 15-16 record, QB rating under 76. Hasn't been in an NFL training program in over 2 years, let alone in a game.[/quote]

Who says he has to be a full-time starter? Aside from breaking dogs backs over his knee, Vick was born to run the Wildcat offense. He doesn't have to throw the ball! It's essentially a running play. Imagine Vick, Portis, and Betts in the backfield with Moss running downfield and whoever else emerges in the starting lineup. Vick doesn't have to throw but he does have the arm strength to get the ball to the target.
The wildcat offense keeps defenses honest by running backs (qb included) in several directions (right, left and up the middle) which ultimately opens up running lanes.
I'm a dog owner and I think what Vick did was brutal but I want the skins to win so sign the guy to the league minimum (2yrs), let him get his feet under him and cut him loose.
Anybody remember Portis and Samuels defending Vick during the vick circus? They had no problem with dog-fighting and nobody's dick got hard.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

Pretty good article by JLC on Vick. Honestly, I'm amazed at how much this guy (Vick) is being discussed by anyone. Even Redskins-hater Mike Florio is not kicking up much dust about this.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-la-canfora/i-dont-expect-a-vickskins-marr.html]Redskins Insider - Why a Vick/Skins Marriage Seems Unlikely[/url]

Re: The Vick Factor
 

I want to see him go to the Raiders. Then they'll have the fastest players at every skill position. With McFadden, DHB, and Vick you could just stick all of em in the backfield and have em run in different directions and see who can catch em.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Ruhskins;559848]Pretty good article by JLC on Vick. Honestly, I'm amazed at how much this guy (Vick) is being discussed by anyone. Even Redskins-hater Mike Florio is not kicking up much dust about this.

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-la-canfora/i-dont-expect-a-vickskins-marr.html"]Redskins Insider - Why a Vick/Skins Marriage Seems Unlikely[/URL][/quote]

If there's a name available, chances are the Skins are going to be mentioned. Just how it goes around here.

I agree with JLC, chances are pretty slim and really the move wouldn't make much sense.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559797] The guy never learned to read a defense, his HS coach used under 10 plays, Stinespring at VT isn't the best OC in D-I, when Vick got to the NFL he never progressed[/quote]

True, that's why i think his best passing days are ahead of him if he goes to a team with a veteran QB coach and veteran OC/playcaller that run a proven system.

BTW, you forgot to mention that he [B][I]also[/I][/B] rushed for an NFL record [B][U]1,000[/U][/B] yards.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Mattyk72;559869]If there's a name available, chances are the Skins are going to be mentioned. Just how it goes around here.

I agree with JLC, chances are pretty slim and really the move wouldn't make much sense.[/quote]

How much you wanna bet there's a thread about Clarett to the Redskins this time next year?

[url=http://mauriceclarett.wordpress.com/2009/05/25/how-i%E2%80%99m-feeling/]How I’m Feeling « The Mind of Maurice Clarett[/url]

Re: The Vick Factor
 

I dont think he could fit on many teams as he is not a pocket passer and those legs of his wont be fast for very much longer. which means he'll just be another kordell stewart. Right? i think it would be good for the team and MV to aquire him though. why not whats there to really lose

Re: The Vick Factor
 

JLC mentioned the possibility of the Dolphins and that make some sense. They use the wildcat a lot... though they did just draft Pat White so maybe it doesn't make much sense after all.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Mattyk72;559906]JLC mentioned the possibility of the Dolphins and that make some sense. They use the wildcat a lot... though they did just draft Pat White so maybe it doesn't make much sense after all.[/quote]

I have a feeling more and more teams will pick up some aspect of the wildcat, so there will be a chance for him somewhere. Even with no wildcat someone is gonna pick him up.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Daseal;559234]First let me say, I'm not trying to defend the actions of the people below, but rather trying to point out the reasoning behind such outrage. There are lots of people that commit crimes in the NFL. Few I see as disgusting as what Michael Vick did to those poor animals.

The most common of the NFL arrests seem to come from alcohol, and the most serious offenses are DUIs. Don't get me wrong, driving under the influence is beyond stupid and no one, especially people such as star athletes should ever drive drunk. But, this is where we start looking at intent. These people are stupid, not malicious. Their intent is NOT to harm and maim other people, it's to get home. A bad decision for sure, and worthy of jail time, but in my mind the crime isn't as gross, but can definitely be more tragic.

Domestic disputes are also very high. Violence in the home is a scary thing. I would never advocate the abuse of a spouse. However, I also start to lose patience the longer a person stays in a situation like that. If the words "He hit me" and "again" are in the same sentence -- you've lost my sympathy. Wife beaters DO NOT CHANGE. If he hits you once, get the **** out. You're a human with control and the ability to leave a situation. Perhaps a shelter isn't the ideal situation, but it gives you ability to get back on your feet and away from the asshole.

The problem with dog fighting is this, the dogs have no say in the matter and Vick made a conscious decision to torture them. So not only do the animals not have the power to leave the situation, Vick also is killing them, brutally, on purpose. Are there worse things than dog fighting and the torture of animals? Absolutely, but that type of reasoning is dangerous. That's asking people to monopolize all their time, effort, and money on one issue. I am a huge animal lover, I currently have two cats, and my parents have 4 dogs. I just don't understand how someone could do that to something that gives you nothing but love, all the time.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=30gut;559882]True, that's why i think his best passing days are ahead of him if he goes to a team with a veteran QB coach and veteran OC/playcaller that run a proven system.

BTW, you forgot to mention that he [B][I]also[/I][/B] rushed for an NFL record [B][U]1,000[/U][/B] yards.[/quote]
If he was progressing his last 3 years wouldn't have been WORSE than his first 3.

He needed to run because that broad side of the barn just couldn't get open.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=John Denny;559844]Who says he has to be a full-time starter? Aside from breaking dogs backs over his knee, Vick was born to run the Wildcat offense. He doesn't have to throw the ball! It's essentially a running play. Imagine Vick, Portis, and Betts in the backfield with Moss running downfield and whoever else emerges in the starting lineup. Vick doesn't have to throw but he does have the arm strength to get the ball to the target.
The wildcat offense keeps defenses honest by running backs (qb included) in several directions (right, left and up the middle) which ultimately opens up running lanes.
I'm a dog owner and I think what Vick did was brutal but I want the skins to win so sign the guy to the league minimum (2yrs), let him get his feet under him and cut him loose.
Anybody remember Portis and Samuels defending Vick during the vick circus? They had no problem with dog-fighting and nobody's dick got hard.[/quote]
Wildcat = fad or situational trick play

If the Wildcat was more than that you'd see the Pats, Colts, Steelers, Giants, Saints, Cards, Cowboys, etc. running it. If you want a bunch of running backs going different directions, run the Wing-T or AF flexbone. If that type of offense would be successful in the NFL teams would run it. It isn't, teams don't.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;559933]Wildcat = fad or situational trick play

If the Wildcat was more than that you'd see the Pats, Colts, Steelers, Giants, Saints, Cards, Cowboys, etc. running it. If you want a bunch of running backs going different directions, run the Wing-T or AF flexbone. If that type of offense would be successful in the NFL teams would run it. It isn't, teams don't.[/quote]

The NFL is a copy cat league and the wildcat was successful. The Dolphins had pretty good success as the only team running the wildcat last year so I look for more teams to use it this year.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=irish;559936]The NFL is a copy cat league and the wildcat was successful. The Dolphins had pretty good success as the only team running the wildcat last year so I look for more teams to use it this year.[/quote]

As the year went on the wildcat got shut down. Defenses will be even more ready for it this year.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;559945]As the year went on the wildcat got shut down. Defenses will be even more ready for it this year.[/quote]

You seem to be assuming that the wildcat will remain stagnant. I think the coaches will will change and evolve the wildcat in response to the defensive adjustments.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=irish;559956]You seem to be assuming that the wildcat will remain stagnant. I think the coaches will will change and evolve the wildcat in response to the defensive adjustments.[/quote]

What else can they do lol. Its a trick formation that is pretty simple to defend. As long as the defense doesnt freelance and set up something for the offense it should be shutdown everytime. Either the "Wildcat QB" takes the snap and runs, tosses the ball to another player, or he throws. So as long as the defense fills the running lanes and the DBs just stick with their man and arent faked out the success rate is very slim for the Wildcat.

Any time you take the QB out of a snap and let someone else handle the football its a good thing for the defense. The Wildcat and all its BS had its great moments like in the Dolphins/Pats game but as the season went on and teams gameplanned for it the Wildcat became a non-factor.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

In 2-3 years the wildcat will be a distant memory. It's a fad offensive wrinkle, not something that will develop into a playbook staple.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;559957]What else can they do lol. Its a trick formation that is pretty simple to defend. As long as the defense doesnt freelance and set up something for the offense it should be shutdown everytime. Either the "Wildcat QB" takes the snap and runs, tosses the ball to another player, or he throws. So as long as the defense fills the running lanes and the DBs just stick with their man and arent faked out the success rate is very slim for the Wildcat.

Any time you take the QB out of a snap and let someone else handle the football its a good thing for the defense. The Wildcat and all its BS had its great moments like in the Dolphins/Pats game but as the season went on and teams gameplanned for it the Wildcat became a non-factor.[/quote]

Its not really a trick formation, its a type of single wing offense which was a football standard for awhile. I dont see the wildcat (or the single wing) becoming the NFL's offense of choice but I do expect to see more teams trying wildcat formations more often this year. I think with JC's mobility and ARE throwing skills, the Skins could have success with wildcat plays.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

The Single Wing is a great O -in youth football- It has been said that it is the father of the spread offense. If you look at the SW alignment and watch the UF games you will see many similarities. But back to MV, Roddy White was near bust status with Vick at QB,I dont want to see our drafted WR's suffer the same manner that White did.We need to have a passer whether its JC breaking out and doing the job or a FA/drafted QB next yr. I have to go with the term that a running QB historically hasnt done very well.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

If we bring Vick in it cannot be as a starting QB, regardless of when it occurs. Anyone who considers this is just foolish.

However, I think he could be great as an 'athlete' whether it is in a Wildcat type of deal or a full house backfield (Sellers and Vick lined up behind the inside cheek of the G at 4 yards back, Portis or Betts lined up directly behind the QB at 6 yards back) or a wing T formation..

Giving him 8-12 touches a game to either run, throw or catch the ball would give defenses something to really think about.

I don't have any moral objections to bringing Vick in but it will be Shanahan's call next offseason if we are ever in a position to consider it.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Paintrain;559974]If we bring Vick in it cannot be as a starting QB, regardless of when it occurs. Anyone who considers this is just foolish.

However, I think he could be great as an 'athlete' whether it is in a Wildcat type of deal or a full house backfield (Sellers and Vick lined up behind the inside cheek of the G at 4 yards back, Portis or Betts lined up directly behind the QB at 6 yards back) or a wing T formation..

Giving him 8-12 touches a game to either run, throw or catch the ball would give defenses something to really think about.

I don't have any moral objections to bringing Vick in but it will be Shanahan's call next offseason if we are ever in a position to consider it.[/quote]

WOW, So pretty much you are sayin this season is lost? Thats what will have to happen for Zorn to be gone and if he is gone then that means JC is also gone. Id like to see Zorn stick around, i believe he can grow into a good HC. ppl have mixed views of JC,im waiting on him to show me he can be the man.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

im opposed to the idea of mike vick, he never was an elite qb and never will be. Sure he can run but he is, or was, very inconsistant.


BUT, if there is anything positive about signing michael vick, the dog slayer it is that he has something to prove IMO... dont hate.

Everyone in this world deserves a second chance, EVERYONE.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=DBUCHANON101;559980]WOW, So pretty much you are sayin this season is lost? Thats what will have to happen for Zorn to be gone and if he is gone then that means JC is also gone. Id like to see Zorn stick around, i believe he can grow into a good HC. ppl have mixed views of JC,im waiting on him to show me he can be the man.[/quote]

Not at all. I'm saying if we are ever at a point of considering it that means that '09 was a bust, JZ is out, Shanny is in and it's his call.

It was pretty much tongue in cheek, as most of my Shanahan references are since so many people are convinced the season is already over, in May.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=irish;559963]Its not really a trick formation, its a type of single wing offense which was a football standard for awhile. I dont see the wildcat (or the single wing) becoming the NFL's offense of choice but I do expect to see more teams trying wildcat formations more often this year. I think with JC's mobility and ARE throwing skills, the Skins could have success with wildcat plays.[/quote]

Nowadays in the NFL running the Wildcat imo is a trick formation. Honestly I find it laughable how teams run it in the NFL.

From everything I have seen Zorn doesnt like the Wildcat. I think ARE's throwing skills are better used when he is lined up at WR and they toss it back to him. When ARE is lined up to take a snap teams will key on him more from the snap knowing he can throw the ball.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Brian Orakpo;560002]Nowadays in the NFL running the Wildcat imo is a trick formation. Honestly I find it laughable how teams run it in the NFL.

From everything I have seen Zorn doesnt like the Wildcat. I think ARE's throwing skills are better used when he is lined up at WR and they toss it back to him. When ARE is lined up to take a snap teams will key on him more from the snap knowing he can throw the ball.[/quote]

It was still fun to see New England get murdered by it.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

^ yes it was

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Zerohero;560034]It was still fun to see New England get murdered by it.[/quote]

Hell yeah. :food-smil

Re: The Vick Factor
 

One or two trick plays are sometimes what takes a team to the SB. Gibbs in his first stint always had atleast 2 trick plays waiting to be used during a game. No one says you have to use them, but nice to have if the game is starting to swing against you or your team needs a spark.

I was never as fond of MV as a lot of people were. I too felt he ran way too much and failed to stand in the pocket and deliver the ball. One writer may have pointed out his reason for doing so and that was cause he was only 5ft 9inch and had a hard time seeing over the O-lineman. I think Colt will have the same problem but for whatever reason he is the next Favre.

I don't think he would out shine JC cause of two reasons. One is cause he would have to get back into football shape and the second being he would have to learn the plays. JC has one yr in the same offense. Zorn can now put more plays in the book. I would have to think having to teach the coach's, then the players, then coach the QB's, and still be a HC for the whole team as well as build a workout program and schedule is a lot to ask. Everyone says the team is light yrs ahead from last yr so hopefully with the team having the basics down and putting more plays in and hopefully having more WR's to throw to plus a healthy O-line they will look a lot better.

No matter what talent wise I would have to take MV over Collins. MV is more mobile. plus again having one or two trick plays up the sleeve would keep defenses honest.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=dall-assblows;559984]im opposed to the idea of mike vick, he never was an elite qb and never will be. Sure he can run but he is, or was, very inconsistant.


BUT, if there is anything positive about signing michael vick, the dog slayer it is that he has something to prove IMO... dont hate.

Everyone in this world deserves a second chance, EVERYONE.[/quote]

Dallas is home of 2nd and 3rd chances, let him go there. I would be very pissed if we signed him.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=WaldSkins;560088]Dallas is home of 2nd and 3rd chances, let him go there. I would be very pissed if we signed him.[/quote]

No big deal.....just make sure to flush more often. ;)

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=Zerohero;560034]It was still fun to see New England get murdered by it.[/quote]

Agreed. Not once, not twice, but 3 times the Dolphins ran that play on them. That was B-E-A-Utiful! It would have only been better if it was US doing that to Dallas.

Re: The Vick Factor
 

I would like to see vick in a skins jersey. We would get to watch him play live 8 games a year! I wanna stick with JC this year though!

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=dirtythirty;560108]I would like to see vick in a skins jersey. We would get to watch him play live 8 games a year! I wanna stick with JC this year though![/quote]

We already have a QB that is average so why would you want another?

Re: The Vick Factor
 

[quote=WaldSkins;560112]We already have a QB that is average so why would you want another?[/quote]

Actually my friend, getting Vick would be a downgrade, and I'm not elevating Campbell to ANY lofty standard!

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[quote=jsarno;560170]Actually my friend, getting Vick would be a downgrade, and I'm not elevating Campbell to ANY lofty standard![/quote]

I totally agree. Where's Colt Brennan when you need him?

Re: The Vick Factor
 

Ill get slammed for this but id rather see Colt start than see us get MV. Colt if anything is a better passer. May not be as strong but is very accurate and in the WCO you dont really need a cannon.