Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115298]Are you asking specifically how Jay's/staff playcalling, gameplan and coaching impact Griffin's performance or general 'how'?[/quote]

Yea. How did it impact Griffin?

Not having a QB coach was a big mistake, hopefully the new guy can make a difference.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[QUOTE=DYoungJelly;1115300]Yea. How did it impact Griffin?[/QUOTE]

Playcalling:
-inefficient playcall relay method--from Jay to McVay to Griffin
-predictability/lack of disguise; giving away tendency based on formation e.g. Trips w/ TE iso=pass almost 100%, base personnel I-form is almost always a run etc
-inconsistent playcalling rhythm, didn't set things up-this could be because 2 different people (Jay/Sean) both call plays (Jay himself confirmed that both he and Sean calls plays)
-not having faith in the QB e.g. vs 49ers called 2 QB draws and a WR throwback
pass on 3rd down

Gameplan:
-not enough commitment to the run
-too much straight drop back passing
-not enough comeback/stop routes
-not enough play-action
-not enough roll-out passes
-not enough sprint/motion passes
-not getting the ball to Garcon

Coaching:
-impatience with Griffin as early as training camp
-creating/adding to an circus atmosphere with his post game rant
-not being in sync with Griffin to create a gameplan that made him comfortable
-not having a QB coach
-going with a rookie OC created a staff devoid of experience and feedback
-not giving Morgan Moses help vs 49ers when he was playing LT

I think all of the above Jay/staff related issues played a role in Griffin's struggles.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I agree that Jay contributed to the lack of RGIII's development last year and I think the breakdown 30gut provided is not far off the mark.

I am hopeful that many of the problems 30gut sets out, specifically play calling and game planning, were caused by first time Head Coachitis and were the direct result of two things:

(1) Trying to do too much and delegating too little. Hopefully, with the addition of a QB coach, and a season under their belt, the 1st time HC and 1st time OC will have a better understanding of the time constraints and their relative roles and will delegate appropriately. Too much of the time last year, I think we had two QB coaches and no HC or OC. As a result, I think the play-calling suffered b/c, as people do when over-stretched, the play-callers fell into things easy and comfortable to them.

(2) Trying to force a round peg into a square hole. RGIII is not, and likely will never be, a straight drop back passer. Further, to try and turn him into one is a waste of much of his athletic ability - sprint options, roll-outs, moving pocket, play action, etc. all work to his strengths (limiting options, creating time to see the field). A game-plan that fails to adapt and accommodate the talent available is doomed to failure or, at the very least, under-achieve.

In terms of (2), however, I can see the other side to the argument: on one hand, play to a QB's strengths v. on the other, forcing a QB to develop the necessary tools for the long term ([I]i.e.[/I], this is what we need a QB to do so we are going to go cold turkey on everything else). If not forced by the game plan, the QB will not do the work necessary to adjust his skill set. Sure, maybe more roll-outs etc. would have helped in the short term, but, ultimately, RGIII has to develop the skills necessary to perform in an offense that can challenge the entire field on any given play. If he only succeeds by the team limiting its options and playing half a field, he simply won't, ever, develop the skills he needs to become a guy who can drop back - when necessary - and run a traditional offense.

As to the coaching, and to me, it essentially boils down to JG's open criticism of RGIII. Either this was (1) simply naiveté by a first year coach not recognizing the circus atmosphere his words would create which 30gut, rightfully, condemns; (2) a deeper obliviousness with the same result as (1) but less correctable; or (3) a much needed smack-down of a young, over-confident QB who thought he was better than he was (As much as I love me some RGIII, he often seems to over-state the importance something he has done right - the equivalent of "Aren't I amazing? I did what other QB's do all the time"). Hopefully, JG's public honesty was the result of (1) or (3), got through to RGIII, [I]AND[/I] JG realizes this type of candor is not something that can continue w/out ultimately being detrimental to the entire team.

Let's see how this relationship develops this year. It is critical for both. Each needs to show individual development as a QB and HC and both need to show they can adapt to the other. RGIII needs to show he can improve within the system provided and JG needs to show he can adapt his system to the talent on hand. While I believe it likely that RGIII's seat is hotter, my bet on both of them being here next year is around 50%.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115317]Playcalling:
-inefficient playcall relay method--from Jay to McVay to Griffin
-predictability/lack of disguise; giving away tendency based on formation e.g. Trips w/ TE iso=pass almost 100%, base personnel I-form is almost always a run etc
-inconsistent playcalling rhythm, didn't set things up-this could be because 2 different people (Jay/Sean) both call plays (Jay himself confirmed that both he and Sean calls plays)
-not having faith in the QB e.g. vs 49ers called 2 QB draws and a WR throwback
pass on 3rd down

Gameplan:
-not enough commitment to the run
-too much straight drop back passing
-not enough comeback/stop routes
-not enough play-action
-not enough roll-out passes
-not enough sprint/motion passes
-not getting the ball to Garcon

Coaching:
-impatience with Griffin as early as training camp
-creating/adding to an circus atmosphere with his post game rant
-not being in sync with Griffin to create a gameplan that made him comfortable
-not having a QB coach
-going with a rookie OC created a staff devoid of experience and feedback
-not giving Morgan Moses help vs 49ers when he was playing LT

I think all of the above Jay/staff related issues played a role in Griffin's struggles.[/quote]

strong list 30. You make good points re what the staff should have done but i wouldnt want to be a HC who has a QB so limited that he needs to run 1 read play calls and even then, the QB holds the ball until the receiver is open open. i dont think you can run a legit offense w RG3. not at this stage in his career at least. 2012 was genius and lightening in a bottle imo.

last year, a lot of ppl on here and talking heads on the radio didnt understand why Gruden didnt move the pocket, get RG3 rolling to his left. i remember hearing that every time RG3 rolled to his right it was a scramble and most times when he rolled to his left he would look pass-first. ( a quick search didnt bring anything up)

the play calling system has been cited as a reason why we are late getting to the line and then running out of time if the play call requires motions, shifts etc. for a guy like RG3 and w gruden knowing he struggles reading Ds pre-snap ... you would think giving him more time at the line would be a good idea.

"We’re very close mentally to thinking alike," Gruden said Tuesday. "When we put together a game plan and you have your third down situations, you can almost call them together."

MORE SKINS: O-LINE SHUFFLES ABOUND
The coach continued: "It’s very important for us to be on the same page when we install and call plays. But we’ll both have input on game day like we do every game. Whether he calls 50 percent, I call 50 percent, he calls 80 percent or 20 doesn’t matter as long as we agree during the week."

Though only 29 years old, many view McVay as a football wunderkind. He has been in the game his whole life, and it's clear the strong relationship he has with players on the practice field. Gruden trusts him, too.

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/open-thread-does-redskins-play-calling-system-make-sense]OPEN THREAD: Does Redskins play-calling system make sense? | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url]

-----------------------------

detailed breakdown by plays. ive never seen this site before.

[url=http://nflbreakdowns.com/rg3-struggles-vs-cowboys/]RG3 vs the Cowboys - 27/41, 336 yards, 2 TD, 2 INT[/url]

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I have to give 30gut credit for putting together such a comprehensive list of the Jay Gruden shortcomings he thinks adversely affected RGIII's performance last season. I find little to disagree with in his post. There is so much valid criticism on his list that I hate to even think about what that may mean to the immediate future of our favorite team.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

And this is why we needed competition for the QB spot. Griffin needed to be pushed and should have had to earn the spot, not have it handed to him- again. He simply hasn't earned the position with his recent play.

While I do agree that Gruden is an impatient coach, what's he suppose to do w/ Griffin? A lot of the playcalling in 14 while Griffin was in there was the most simple stuff I've ever seen on the NFL level. It was painful to watch that shit. Can't keep hiding your QB if you want to be a real NFL offense.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I am really hoping JG's handling of RGIII in '14 was a little bit 1st time Head Coach and a little bit of tough love. RGIII needs to acknowledge just how far he has to go and JG, hopefully, was just trying to show him that.

We'll see. I fear we're heading to a Jason Campbell redux.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Question when Tom Shady took over for Bledsoe he never looked back took his chance and never let go of the spot. Please explain to me why people have stated KC was never given a chance. I just want a QB would like it to be RG3 but if it is it is if it isn't it isn't.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1115331]I am really hoping JG's handling of RGIII in '14 was a little bit 1st time Head Coach and a little bit of tough love. RGIII needs to acknowledge just how far he has to go and JG, hopefully, was just trying to show him that.

We'll see. I fear we're heading to a Jason Campbell redux.[/quote]

I don't know if there was ever a more depressing time for me recently than when we had Jason Campbell locked in at starter.

Brunell might have been bad in 2006 but i feel like the real blame should have went with them trying to install a brand new offense and a team that was under-performing across the board.

It would have been one thing if we had replaced Brunell with Campbell and all of a sudden he lit it up, but that didn't happen.

I personally would have wanted to see Brunell get the starting job in 2007 once everyone knew the offense better, and see what happened from there....you never know

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;1115336]I don't know if there was ever a more depressing time for me recently than when we had Jason Campbell locked in at starter.

Brunell might have been bad in 2006 but i feel like the real blame should have went with them trying to install a brand new offense and a team that was under-performing across the board.

It would have been one thing if we had replaced Brunell with Campbell and all of a sudden he lit it up, but that didn't happen.

I personally would have wanted to see Brunell get the starting job in 2007 once everyone knew the offense better, and see what happened from there....you never know[/quote]

brunell was only good for about 2 game a year at that point. his legs were shot. he holds te record for least passing yards in a playoff win (64). that's bad.


as for another post on KC, i don't really see him being more than an average starter at best. the interception thing is always going to be there barring something drastic.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=That Guy;1115338]brunell was only good for about 2 game a year at that point. his legs were shot. he holds te record for least passing yards in a playoff win (64). that's bad.


as for another post on KC, i don't really see him being more than an average starter at best. the interception thing is always going to be there barring something drastic.[/quote]

Brunell was clearly done at that point.

As for KC vs. RGIII, average is better than very bad. Somehow, I feel that RGIII can either be very good or very bad but never average. KC couldn't beat out the very good RGIII but he could save us from the very bad RGIII.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Brunell? :doh:

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=over the mountain;1115320]strong list 30. You make good points re what the staff should have done but i wouldnt want to be a HC who has a QB so limited that he needs to run 1 read play calls[/quote]Is that hyperbole or do you really believe he needs '1 read play calls'? If you actually believe that then right off the bat I disagree with your assessment of Griffin. And sure [U][I][B]IF[/B][/I][/U] Griffin was as limited as you believe then he shouldn't be in the league, and he sure as heck wouldn't have won rookie of the year.

[quote] i dont think you can run a legit offense w RG3. not at this stage in his career at least...[/quote]Personally I don't think Griffin can succeed with Gruden as his HC/playcaller; that is why I thought the FO should have traded Griffin while he still had some trade value. But, the question of whether or not Griffin can run a 'legit offense' I think Griffin would fit just fine in any number of offenses: Philly, Seattle, Carolina, 49ers (previous), Maimi, KC, Vikings and others given time.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115372]Personally I don't think Griffin can succeed with Gruden as his HC/playcaller; that is why I thought the FO should have traded Griffin while he still had some trade value. But, the question of whether or not Griffin can run a 'legit offense' I think Griffin would fit just fine in any number of offenses: Philly, Seattle, Carolina, 49ers (previous), Maimi, KC, Vikings and others [B]given time[/B].[/quote]

"Given time" is the key. I don't think he could run any of those offenses tomorrow with any degree of success. How much time is reasonable at this point. Further, in each of those offenses, other than Seattle and SF - which have / had dominant defenses [I]and[/I] run games, the QB must still drop back, make & be patient with his reads, get his timing right, and feel pressure. RGIII simply does not and has not ever demonstrated consistent ability in [I]any[/I] of those phases. His only success has come in a limited offense where he was generally required to make one or two reads.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1115103]I'll say it again, he's just not the guy. He has too many issues. Hopefully I'm wrong.[/quote]

Since the Skins coughed up 16 mil to pick up the 5th year option I have a feeling
a lot of the bad press Robert is getting is just unsubstantiated rumors. I listen to a lot of Redskin talk on the radio and have heard all kinds of BS. I doubt if Robert blamed the bad results on everybody but himself and is an uncoachable egomaniac the Redskins would have laid out that much money. They have to feel he has a good chance to turn it around. Have to admit last year he looked lost out there.