Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=fanarchist;841658]If by gunslinger you mean he wishes he was a Cowboy, after seeing that performance last night I'd have half a mind to agree.

[B]I've never heard of someone getting the "gunslinger" label with absolutely no athletic ability to make a play when the pocket breaks down[/B]. Farve, Vick, Cutler, Fitzpatrick, Romo, all guys that can extend the play by throwing darts, and making plays in precarious situations. I'd be surprised if Rex has a completion rate of 10% outside the pocket on plays that aren't designed bootlegs. He's simply a remiss QB. Nothing more.[/quote]

Again, it's not like I'm the clever guy who just hung the "gunslinger" label on Grossman, as much as it might help your argument.

Sorry to be a logical inconvenience, but:

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman"]Rex Grossman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

[quote=Wikipedia]

[B]Playing style[/B]
Grossman’s [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_American_football#G"]gunslinger[/URL] attitude is illustrated in his desire to throw long passes, similar to his youth idol, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre"]Brett Favre[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-71"][72][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-72"][73][/URL] During the 2006 season, Grossman had an above average completion rate when throwing passes worth twenty or more yards, but struggled to complete shorter passes. According to columnist Paul Attner of [I][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News"]Sporting News[/URL][/I], this attitude contributed to Grossman's inconsistent play.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-73"][74][/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-74"][75][/URL] During Week 12 of the 2006 season, Grossman threw a game-ending interception while attempting a deep pass to [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashied_Davis"]Rashied Davis[/URL].[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-75"][76][/URL] However, during the divisional game in the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006%E2%80%9307_NFL_playoffs"]2006 playoffs[/URL], he threw a 68-yard touchdown pass to Berrian on the opening play of the Bears’ second drive.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-76"][77][/URL]
Additionally, Grossman’s ability to elude pursuers and [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scramble"]scramble[/URL] has significantly decreased since his season ending leg injury in 2004.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-rams-77"][78][/URL] Although he only played three games in 2004, Grossman amassed more rushing yards than he did in sixteen games in 2006.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-allstat-78"][79][/URL] However, he showed his potential to scramble during a game against the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_Rams"]St. Louis Rams[/URL], after he converted a third and long with a twenty-two yard run. Though the run was the longest of Grossman’s career, it only gave him five net yards for the season at that point.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Grossman#cite_note-rams-77"][78][/URL]
[/quote]

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

U guys do remember that Rex is only in his 6th game as our starter and we had a short preseason.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

SCP, what in the hell was that all about? I was rescrolling a rereading posts to see if I had missed something.......LOL

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;841195]So this begs the question, who's shoulders can this offense trust and lean on?[/quote]For leaderhip?

Santana Moss.

But if you're asking who the offense should be built around?

Hightower & Helu should be the focal point and leaders on the offense.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

Wikipedia is really not most reliable source for information. I saw an excerpt from Wikipedia that claimed Dan Snyder was gay for dinosaurs. It's funny, but highly doubtful in the fact catagory.

For the most part, I think a number of decisions this coaching staff has made, personnel wise, this season have been great. Helu, Josh Wilson, Kerrigan, Bowens, Hank, OJ etc. all, in my opinion very good acquistions. But Fred Davis being virtually non-existent in the game last night, and essentially replacing his touches with what seems to be a smaller, slower, less menasing version of the Captain Chaos we are accustom to seeing, seems, atleast to me, like a very poor game planning decision. Especially when Fred Davis had been a dominant safety blanket in the first 2 games. Running stretch plays on most early 1st down scenarios. Redzone playcalling that discourages us from capitalizing on scoring opportunities, and turnovers. I realize that they're in the past, but the McNabb and Haynesworth debacles didn't really instill a solid foundation for trust. Larry Johnson, Joey Galloway. I'm not going to just accept these shaky decisions based on a lulling adherence to the Shanahan's past achievements. I will question.

Sorry if my initial statement was percieved as contentious, it wasn't my intent. I was looking for elaboration.

That's all.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

With Rex as our QB, I can guarantee 2 wins, 4 others are toss ups and 7 are sure losses.

Rex played well against the Giants and terrible to next two games.

We could end up 4-12 with Rex as our QB, nobody wants that. BECK

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

Please, do tell me, any of you. Has any of our WRs or center done anything as ****ing stupid as Costa and the Dallas WRs did last night? Well, that's a damn good reason why Rex Grossman isn't screaming like a madman.

#2. I am ****ING sick and tired of "colloquial psychological theory" in which "leadership" is equivalent to just having more body language and screaming your ass off. When "leading" someone, you are trying to INFLUENCE their goddamn behavior. Going rah-rah-rah will not necessarily change anyone's behavior. There are a bunch of theories into leadership, but simply having more demonstrative body language and "screaming" ain't one of them.

And Beck can't lead? Who the **** was organizing those player workouts in the offseason. Yeah, Beck.

I might not care about religion, but all the forgiveness talk is bound to make non-members think sissyness is principle number 1.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=fanarchist;841696]I saw an excerpt from Wikipedia that claimed Dan Snyder was gay for dinosaurs. It's funny, but highly doubtful in the fact catagory.

[/quote]

Not only is that fact true, it also explains a lot.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;841725]Please, do tell me, any of you. Has any of our WRs or center done anything as ****ing stupid as Costa and the Dallas WRs did last night? Well, that's a damn good reason why Rex Grossman isn't screaming like a madman.

#2. I am ****ING sick and tired of "colloquial psychological theory" in which "leadership" is equivalent to just having more body language and screaming your ass off. When "leading" someone, you are trying to INFLUENCE their goddamn behavior. Going rah-rah-rah will not necessarily change anyone's behavior. There are a bunch of theories into leadership, but simply having more demonstrative body language and "screaming" ain't one of them.

And Beck can't lead? Who the **** was organizing those player workouts in the offseason. Yeah, Beck.

I might not care about religion, but all the forgiveness talk is bound to make non-members think sissyness is principle number 1.[/quote]

After you're done with your rant, maybe you can tell us how you took DynamiteRave's statement that she doesn't think Beck has the leadership qualities to succeed under pressure to mean she was making some statement about "sissy white Mormon boys"

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=CapitalDefense;841699]With Rex as our QB, I can guarantee 2 wins, 4 others are toss ups and 7 are sure losses.

[B]Rex played well against the Giants and terrible to next two games.
[/B]
We could end up 4-12 with Rex as our QB, nobody wants that. BECK[/quote]

Rex did not play "terrible" against either the Cards or the Boys. He did make some bad plays, for sure, but he also made some positive plays as well.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=fanarchist;841696]Wikipedia is really not most reliable source for information. I saw an excerpt from Wikipedia that claimed Dan Snyder was gay for dinosaurs. It's funny, but highly doubtful in the fact catagory.
[/quote]

I understand what you're trying to say here, and in many cases you're correct (I wouldn't rely on their entry on chemistry experiments) but in this case Wikipedia [B]is[/B] a reliable source because the disagreement was whether anyone else thinks of Rex Grossman as a "gunslinger". The fact that someone went to the trouble of editing Grossman's entry to include references to this would seem to indicate that there are people who feel this is true.

Further, the article itself was located as a result of typing "Rex Grossman gu.." into Google, where "Rex Grossman gunslinger" is the #3 search term (behind "Rex Grossman guarantee", "Rex Grossman guarantee nfc east" and just after "Rex Grossman gut").

[quote]I realize that they're in the past, but the McNabb and Haynesworth debacles didn't really instill a solid foundation for trust. Larry Johnson, Joey Galloway. I'm not going to just accept these shaky decisions based on a lulling adherence to the Shanahan's past achievements. I will question.[/quote]

Well, I don't disagree with disliking many of those moves, but hindsight is 20/20. Signing McNabb was a risky move but one that a great deal of pundits thought would make us instant contenders. Nobody realized how far McNabb had fallen physically and the bigger issue probably turned out to be his attitude.

I'm one of those guys who thinks that the real issue with McNabb was that he refused to take direction from coaches. I read an an article that hinted that he'd always been this way in Philly, but Reid covered for him and for the most part, he used his physical attributes to brute force his way through bad decisions. But because he wouldn't take any coaching, and would just wave off instruction as "beneath him", be started to become less and less effective as he got older. What can you say, the guy was really good at saying the right things, and he was just too old to help us.

As for Haynesworth, I really don't understand what anyone can hang on Shanahan there. He didn't sign the guy. He made his intentions to switch to a 3-4 clear (and it's paying dividends now, so he seems validated) and they gave Fatal Bert plenty of opportunities, but Shanahan refused to kowtow to a spoiled player, and I think that was absolutely the right move. The inmates ran the asylum for far too long, and again, the discipline and cohesiveness we're seeing with this year's squad is proof that it was the right move.

LJ and Galloway, I mean, whatever, you bring in warm bodies for camp, if you think they can help you give them a shot. Hell, Gibbs brought in McCardell when he was 37. Lots of coaches bring in veteran players for a variety of reasons; they're cheap, they're experienced, they provide leadership and stabilize a team, and they're expendable if a young guy starts to shows promise and overtakes them.

I really can't say anything definitive about Davis being a non-factor last night except that I noticed it too and assumed he was just well covered the defense when he was in. It's safe to say teams know who he is now and he won't be able to get open quite so easily. Cooley has a lot of experience against Dallas so it would make sense to try and work him in often, but I agree with you that he's starting to look like he's really slowing down.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=dgack;841749]I understand what you're trying to say here, and in many cases you're correct (I wouldn't rely on their entry on chemistry experiments) but in this case Wikipedia [B]is[/B] a reliable source because the disagreement was whether anyone else thinks of Rex Grossman as a "gunslinger". The fact that someone went to the trouble of editing Grossman's entry to include references to this would seem to indicate that there are people who feel this is true.

Further, the article itself was located as a result of typing "Rex Grossman gu.." into Google, where "Rex Grossman gunslinger" is the #3 search term (behind "Rex Grossman guarantee", "Rex Grossman guarantee nfc east" and just after "Rex Grossman gut").



Well, I don't disagree with disliking many of those moves, but hindsight is 20/20. Signing McNabb was a risky move but one that a great deal of pundits thought would make us instant contenders. Nobody realized how far McNabb had fallen physically and the bigger issue probably turned out to be his attitude.

I'm one of those guys who thinks that the real issue with McNabb was that he refused to take direction from coaches. I read an an article that hinted that he'd always been this way in Philly, but Reid covered for him and for the most part, he used his physical attributes to brute force his way through bad decisions. But because he wouldn't take any coaching, and would just wave off instruction as "beneath him", be started to become less and less effective as he got older. What can you say, the guy was really good at saying the right things, and he was just too old to help us.

As for Haynesworth, I really don't understand what anyone can hang on Shanahan there. He didn't sign the guy. He made his intentions to switch to a 3-4 clear (and it's paying dividends now, so he seems validated) and they gave Fatal Bert plenty of opportunities, but Shanahan refused to kowtow to a spoiled player, and I think that was absolutely the right move. The inmates ran the asylum for far too long, and again, the discipline and cohesiveness we're seeing with this year's squad is proof that it was the right move.

LJ and Galloway, I mean, whatever, you bring in warm bodies for camp, if you think they can help you give them a shot. Hell, Gibbs brought in McCardell when he was 37. Lots of coaches bring in veteran players for a variety of reasons; they're cheap, they're experienced, they provide leadership and stabilize a team, and they're expendable if a young guy starts to shows promise and overtakes them.

I really can't say anything definitive about Davis being a non-factor last night except that I noticed it too and assumed he was just well covered the defense when he was in. It's safe to say teams know who he is now and he won't be able to get open quite so easily. Cooley has a lot of experience against Dallas so it would make sense to try and work him in often, but I agree with you that he's starting to look like he's really slowing down.[/quote]

And my point was that there are clear incongruities in how individuals define what actually constitutes a "gunslinger". I don't care if you labeled him, or if it's the most searched topic on the web. In my definition,(you can reference previous posts if you care to refresh your memory)Rex Grossman is not a "gunslinger", plain and simple. He's simply a pathetic decision maker that suffers from tremorous bouts where he lacks any impulse control whatsoever.

And to everything else you wrote. It's like I'm always battling with an incarnation of the same person, spewing the same rhetoric, from the same sources, where virtually no independant thought is required. Everything is a reference from someone else, and it fast becomes boring and myopic. I could glean your perspective on these issues by funneling the mass consensus through the same narrow vortex. Your last post was a huge waist of time. If you want to know how I would respond to all the same points go to my post history. I'm done playing the redundancy game.

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=fanarchist;841798]And my point was that there are clear incongruities in how individuals define what actually constitutes a "gunslinger". I don't care if you labeled him, or if it's the most searched topic on the web. In my definition,(you can reference previous posts if you care to refresh your memory)Rex Grossman is not a "gunslinger", plain and simple. He's simply a pathetic decision maker that suffers from tremorous bouts where he lacks any impulse control whatsoever.

And to everything else you wrote. It's like I'm always battling with an incarnation of the same person, spewing the same rhetoric, from the same sources, where virtually no independant thought is required. Everything is a reference from someone else, and it fast becomes boring and myopic. I could glean your perspective on these issues by funneling the mass consensus through the same narrow vortex. Your last post was a huge waist of time. If you want to know how I would respond to all the same points go to my post history. I'm done playing the redundancy game.[/quote]

Or perhaps you just don't like rational debate with someone who doesn't always agree with you. I'm sorry to disappoint you. :(

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;841444]Has Santana ever had a double digit TD year? He can't physically dominate someone like Bryant can. I love the guy but he should be in the slot and maybe start getting Paul or Hankerson on the outside.[/quote]


Has Moss ever had a QB to trow him double TD years?

Hate Romo because he's a Cowboy, but he's a better QB then what we've had in Washington for a decade

Re: Who Can Lead This Team?
 

[quote=dgack;841799]Or perhaps you just don't like rational debate with someone who doesn't always agree with you. I'm sorry to disappoint you. :([/quote]

No I don't like it when people take what I say out of context, fragment, and skew it on a tilt so that it leans in a direction of their choosing. I enjoy rational debate, just not generic debate. But my posts are there. I've covered most of these topics.

And when we're running single wing offset I with Logan Paulson playing the wing, Cooley as the FB, and Fred Davis no where in sight on consecutive drives. There's a problem. Perhaps you should pay more attention to the game, and think less about how you're going to impress the pod people on the warpath.