Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Steelers look scary good for next season. Dominating OL, those backup WRs and RBs, and the defense has been bad but sure looked good tonight.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Yeah IMO the steelers are the team to beat for the next 2-3 years in the AFC.. NE has to start dropping off eventually

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1137883]Steelers look scary good for next season. Dominating OL, those backup WRs and RBs, and the defense has been bad but sure looked good tonight.[/quote]

Their WR corp is amazing:

Brown
Bryant
Wheaton
Coates
Heyward-Bey

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=J. Falcon;1137870]Excellent response. So again, how is he better than the 3 quarterbacks I mentioned?

Anyway, where the hell do you come off saying that shit? As if it were ridiculous to say the 3 quarterbacks I mentioned (arguably the 3 best ever) are better than Manning.[/quote]


Okay you started the shit show tell us all why you think they(those 3) are better than Manning?

Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

I dont think it is crazy AT ALL to say Manning is not top 3. Not at all. You guys are acting like J Falcon said the guy sucks. Jumping down his throat for saying Brady, Montana, and Elway are better?!?!? Ive heard several experts say that Manning is not the goat. Not sure ive heard many say he is. What is with the love affair on here? Get a grip.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=Giantone;1137889]Okay you started the shit show tell us all why you think they(those 3) are better than Manning?[/quote]

Mediocre postseason stats. Only 1 ring.

The other 3 have 10 rings between them plus greater legacies. It's pretty simple. They carried their teams when it counted most.

Montana never threw an interception in any of the 4 Superbowls he won.

Brady won played in 6 Superbowls, won 4 and may well be on his way to his 5th.

Elway, hell, he may be thr best of the bunch. If pressed Inmay choose him out of the 4 to be my QB.

Those guys are proven winnrrd. Manning, not so much. Honestly not sure I would even rank Manning in the top 5.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Peyton can't drive the ball anymore. Yes he had drops yesterday, several. But so did the Steelers db's. They should have had a few picks. He seriously needs to retire in the worst way. He looks like an old washed up QB.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1137887]Their WR corp is amazing:

Brown
Bryant
Wheaton
Coates
Heyward-Bey[/quote]

I agree. They have a few studs over there. As usual, great drafting by the Steelers

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Let the Brady vs. Manning lovefest begin. Might have to take a break from NFL Network this week.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Brady with McDaniel's gameplan were surgical on Saturday.

Freaking surgical.

Its gonna take a hell of a gameplan to stop their spread passing attack.
I'm not sure if they can be stopped any better then the Chiefs did.
Short of a shit ton of offense its gonna take ball control, special teams and a turnover to beat them provided a team can hold them under 30.


I also tip cap to Reid for keeping the game close despite all their circumstances. They enter the game without their #1 and #2 RBs then during the course of the game they had drops, a key fumble and lost their #1 WR and only have Alex Smith at QB yet they were able to be in the game.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

I think it will look like the AFC Championship from two years ago.

Patriots have no linebackers left. Broncos will run all over them.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

alex smith is actually a good QB. you can win with him. he's not elite or anything, but he's better than the guy that replaced him in SF.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=That Guy;1137910]alex smith is actually a good QB. you can win with him.[/quote]Agree.

[quote]...he's not elite or anything, but he's better than the guy that replaced him in SF.[/quote]Kaep?
Kaep (depending on who is coaching him) is at least on the same tier as Alex, Kaep has been to the SB and was a Crabtree drop away from having a ring.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1137887]Their WR corp is amazing:

Brown
Bryant
Wheaton
Coates
Heyward-Bey[/quote]

Looks like an old Al Davis Olympic Relay team!

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=J. Falcon;1137891]Mediocre postseason stats. Only 1 ring.
Honestly not sure I would even rank Manning in the top 5.[/quote]



....yeah wow .

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=Giantone;1137929]....yeah wow .[/quote]

Another great response from you. Keep at it. You don't have much to say or counter, so you quote just the beginning and end of my post and respond with 2 words. I think it's safe to say you have no opinion here.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=J. Falcon;1137891]Mediocre postseason stats. Only 1 ring.

The other 3 have 10 rings between them plus greater legacies. It's pretty simple. They carried their teams when it counted most.

Montana never threw an interception in any of the 4 Superbowls he won.

Brady won played in 6 Superbowls, won 4 and may well be on his way to his 5th.

Elway, hell, he may be thr best of the bunch. If pressed Inmay choose him out of the 4 to be my QB.

Those guys are proven winnrrd. Manning, not so much. Honestly not sure I would even rank Manning in the top 5.[/quote]

Just curious here, not trying to start an argument. The rings debate obviously plays a role to an extent, but I'm curious if that's the be-all/end-all of the debate or if it's just a part of the overall package.

Would you say Eli is better than Peyton? After all, 2 rings vs. one and you can argue Eli played a bigger role in those 2 wins then Peyton did in his.

Where does Dan Marino stand in your rankings? Is he all the way at the bottom since he never won a SB?

I get that SB wins definitely plays a part, but I don't believe that's the final argument. Is Roethlisberger better than Peyton? Not in my book. Football is one of the ultimate team sports. It's not like basketball where you can group 3 elite players on a team and compete for a championship 4 years in a row.

I honestly feel like Peyton gets a bad rap for the SB's, when the GM's strategy was "give Peyton a solid team and let him take care of the rest." For me the difference lies in the fact that when Brady went down for the year, the Pats survived and went 11-5 because that team was solid from the ground up. But when Peyton went down for the year they had one of the worst tank jobs I've ever seen. That's the difference.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

The 3 best qbs of all times are Theismann, Williams, and Rypien in any order you want to put them. I hope Cousins joins them in the top 4 next year.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Double post...oops

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1137934]The 3 best qbs of all times are Theismann, Williams, and Rypien in any order you want to put them. I hope Cousins joins them in the top 4 next year.[/quote]

Agreed

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=mooby;1137933]Just curious here, not trying to start an argument. The rings debate obviously plays a role to an extent, but I'm curious if that's the be-all/end-all of the debate or if it's just a part of the overall package.

Would you say Eli is better than Peyton? After all, 2 rings vs. one and you can argue Eli played a bigger role in those 2 wins then Peyton did in his.

Where does Dan Marino stand in your rankings? Is he all the way at the bottom since he never won a SB?

I get that SB wins definitely plays a part, but I don't believe that's the final argument. Is Roethlisberger better than Peyton? Not in my book. Football is one of the ultimate team sports. It's not like basketball where you can group 3 elite players on a team and compete for a championship 4 years in a row.

I honestly feel like Peyton gets a bad rap for the SB's, when the GM's strategy was "give Peyton a solid team and let him take care of the rest." For me the difference lies in the fact that when Brady went down for the year, the Pats survived and went 11-5 because that team was solid from the ground up. But when Peyton went down for the year they had one of the worst tank jobs I've ever seen. That's the difference.[/quote]

Well, I never said Eli was better than Payton, just that he had won more championships. I agree Superbowls can't be the be-all/end-all of the debate, but I do rank it high, as I do postseason performance as a whole.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=J. Falcon;1137937]Well, I never said Eli was better than Payton, just that he had won more championships. I agree Superbowls can't be the be-all/end-all of the debate, but I do rank it high, as I do postseason performance as a whole.[/quote]

I never implied you did, I just wanted to throw a couple scenarios your way.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

if we endlessly debate "who should be on the mt. rushmore of NFL quarterbacks" when there is still football to be played .... what are we going to relentlessly talk about come July?

Think about July guys. dont be a dick to july. our country was founded in july.

Do you know what "sports" I watch in July? bicycle riding. grown dudes riding bicycles.

do you know why i watch?

1. to see all the cool castles and stone houses in the French countryside.
2. to hope and see a drunk fan wander to far into the field of bicylists and cause a crash.

but thats all we have for july. a bicycle race. so pretty please, with sugar on top, dont mess with the month of july.

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.aolnews.com/media/2007/07/71423799.jpg[/IMG]

^^^ this guy gets it. be more like that guy.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

I think you could make a valid argument for any these guys to be the best of all times or in your top 3:

Elway, Manning, Brady, Favre, and Montana.

There is no perfect answer. A lot is subjective.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[IMG]http://www.blankcalendarprintout.com/downloads/blank-calendar/blank-July-2016-calendar.jpg[/IMG]

(sorry, i am just killing the last 6 mins at work on a federal holiday and i havent eaten lunch bc the cafe in my bldg is closed for said holiday and its too cold to walk outside)

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=30gut;1137918]Agree.

Kaep?
Kaep (depending on who is coaching him) is at least on the same tier as Alex, Kaep has been to the SB and was a Crabtree drop away from having a ring.[/quote]

if thats the criteria, trent difler has a ring. that SF team was loaded. that doesn't mean he's great. i don't think he's terrible either and i don't think alex smith is way better than him or anything, just who i'd pick if i had that choice.

Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Superbowl rings imo should have zero to do with rankings. Dan Marino is in my top 5. Eli, Trent, Rypien, and a host of others are not. Off the top of my head i would go
Brady
Marino
Elway
Manning
Moon

Edit: i hesitate about the Staubachs, Bradshaws, Montanas, and Youngs because they were surrounded by HOF everythings. What some of my top 5 did with the teams they had is amazing. That being said I wouldnt balk at a list that had any of those guys. Otto Graham. Sammy Baugh. Im too young to know.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=punch it in;1137961]Superbowl rings imo should have zero to do with rankings. Dan Marino is in my top 5. Eli, Trent, Rypien, and a host of others are not. Off the top of my head i would go
Brady
Marino
Elway
Manning
Moon

Edit: i hesitate about the Staubachs, Bradshaws, Montanas, and Youngs because they were surrounded by HOF everythings. What some of my top 5 did with the teams they had is amazing. That being said I wouldnt balk at a list that had any of those guys. Otto Graham. Sammy Baugh. Im too young to know.[/quote]

Moon instead of Montana? As much as I hate the 49ers Montana was unbelievable, I saw him make some passes against all pro defenders that no one could and his legendary comebacks. I saw his whole career here in SF.

Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1137966]Moon instead of Montana? As much as I hate the 49ers Montana was unbelievable, I saw him make some passes against all pro defenders that no one could and his legendary comebacks. I saw his whole career here in SF.[/QUOTE]


Again though look at the teams Moon played for. Plus 5 years in the CFL. Montana was surrounded by HOFers on both sides. If you put Warren Moon on the Niners for his 22 years 78-2000 my God.
Edit: also like I said i would not necessarily argue Montana being anywhere 1-10 on the list of greatest quarterbacks. I put alot into situations and teammates. Maybe too much, and yes I realize that is not up to the player. I ask myself what if you switched Montanas situation with Moons or Marinos. I always find myself saying that Montana wouldn't have accomplished what those guys did.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Bradshaw called his own plays and won 4 SB. He is top 5 of all time. Montana, Brady, Elway, Kelly, and Bradsaw.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

Where do you place Aikman? I put him then next group. Manning, Marino, Aikman, Favre, Moon, and Roethlisberger.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1137966]Moon instead of Montana? As much as I hate the 49ers Montana was unbelievable, I saw him make some passes against all pro defenders that no one could and his legendary comebacks. I saw his whole career here in SF.[/quote]

Montana is my undisputed #1

Best QB I ever seen play.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=punch it in;1137961]Superbowl rings imo should have zero to do with rankings. Dan Marino is in my top 5. Eli, Trent, Rypien, and a host of others are not. Off the top of my head i would go
Brady
Marino
Elway
Manning
Moon

Edit: i hesitate about the Staubachs, Bradshaws, Montanas, and Youngs because they were surrounded by HOF everythings. What some of my top 5 did with the teams they had is amazing. That being said I wouldnt balk at a list that had any of those guys. Otto Graham. Sammy Baugh. Im too young to know.[/quote]


I agree thst maybe SB wins shouldn't be the most important factor, but only for QBs who only won it once: Dilfer, Rypien, Brad Johnson, McMahon, etc. If they have multiple rings they deserve to be in the discussion for GOAT. Sorry, but winning superbowla is what it's all about. And all great QBs played on teams surrounded by HOFs, otherwise they wouldn't be dynasties. But t all starts with the QB. You don't have a dynasty without a top QB of all time.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=punch it in;1137961]Superbowl rings imo should have zero to do with rankings. Dan Marino is in my top 5. Eli, Trent, Rypien, and a host of others are not. Off the top of my head i would go
Brady
Marino
Elway
Manning
Moon

Edit: i hesitate about the Staubachs, Bradshaws, Montanas, and Youngs because they were surrounded by HOF everythings. What some of my top 5 did with the teams they had is amazing. That being said I wouldnt balk at a list that had any of those guys. Otto Graham. Sammy Baugh. Im too young to know.[/quote]

if you watch old otto graham tape and put it in context it's crazy. he was running a passing attack that was 20 years ahead of its time. comebacks, timing routes, etc that no one else was running back then. 114-20-4 as a starter, 9 ypa, and a NBL (NBA) championship to boot. he also coached the skins for 3 years, but that didn't work out well, and he was replaced with vince lombardi. craziness.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=OmahaRedskins;1137970]Where do you place Aikman? I put him then next group. Manning, Marino, Aikman, Favre, Moon, and Roethlisberger.[/quote]

Second tier.

Aikman, Farve, Young, Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Moon, Staubach, Brees.

I think Manning is top tier and Bradshaw second, despite the SBs.

Then there are the greats from when the QB position was something quite different: Unitas, Starr, Baugh.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[QUOTE=OmahaRedskins;1137969]Bradshaw called his own plays and won 4 SB. He is top 5 of all time. Montana, Brady, Elway, Kelly, and Bradsaw.[/QUOTE]


Man talk about surrounded by HOFers. Stallworth, Swann, Bleier, Franco, Webster. A D that would have won games without those guys. Lol. Could have plugged John Beck into that team n probably won several games.

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[QUOTE=That Guy;1137973]if you watch old otto graham tape and put it in context it's crazy. he was running a passing attack that was 20 years ahead of its time. comebacks, timing routes, etc that no one else was running back then. 114-20-4 as a starter, 9 ypa, and a NBL (NBA) championship to boot. he also coached the skins for 3 years, but that didn't work out well, and he was replaced with vince lombardi. craziness.[/QUOTE]


That is a crazy wins loss record. Insane. Just total domination. Im sure he belongs in the top 5 but too long ago for me to completely fathom it....

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=punch it in;1137967]Again though look at the teams Moon played for. Plus 5 years in the CFL. Montana was surrounded by HOFers on both sides. If you put Warren Moon on the Niners for his 22 years 78-2000 my God.
Edit: also like I said i would not necessarily argue Montana being anywhere 1-10 on the list of greatest quarterbacks. I put alot into situations and teammates. Maybe too much, and yes I realize that is not up to the player. I ask myself what if you switched Montanas situation with Moons or Marinos. I always find myself saying that Montana wouldn't have accomplished what those guys did.[/quote]

49ers first SB they were a bunch of no nobody's , Dwight Clark (10th round pick) Earl Cooper, Freddie Solomon, Bill Ring, Paul Hofer, who? Beat the star ladden cowboys and went to win their first SB, the rest is history.

Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;1137983]49ers first SB they were a bunch of no nobody's , Dwight Clark (10th round pick) Earl Cooper, Freddie Solomon, Bill Ring, Paul Hofer, who? Beat the star ladden cowboys and went to win their first SB, the rest is history.[/QUOTE]


But the rest isnt just history. Its also exactly what I said...him surrounded by a heck of a team.
Edit: I was at the old Philly Spectrum watching a hockey game. My Dad had a little portable tv. I remember there being alot of them and alot of radios that night. When "the catch" happened the Spectrum went nuts. As loud as I ever heard it for the Flyers themselves. Lol

Re: Round 2 Nfl playoffs.
 

[quote=punch it in;1137985]But the rest isnt just history. Its also exactly what I said...him surrounded by a heck of a team.
Edit: I was at the old Philly Spectrum watching a hockey game. My Dad had a little portable tv. I remember there being alot of them and alot of radios that night. When "the catch" happened the Spectrum went nuts. As loud as I ever heard it for the Flyers themselves. Lol[/quote]

John Taylor and Jerry Rice didn't come till 1985 and 1986. Montana like Brady made his average receivers better. By 1984 Joe had won 2 SB's, their best draft was in 1986.