Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;902453]Put it this way, I could see Vinny doing this easily, but I would put forward that if the NFL had told Joe Gibbs this needed to stop, he would have stopped it the first time, and not lied about it and covered it up.[/quote]

I'd bet my house if this was going on and Gibbs found out about it the league wouldn't have to ask him to stop it. He'd have stopped it himself and maybe fired everyone.

If there's one NFL personality that this type of activity doesn't fit it is Joe Gibbs...and maybe Tony Dungy. Those guys wouldn't have put up with this crap at all.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

And the answer to everyone who say "well other teams do it" is...they're the ones who got caught.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=over the mountain;902401]I havent read everything there is on this but imo giving an incentive to take a player out doesnt mean encouraging your players to play dirty.

Imo it means encouraging hard hits within the rules.

Hearing alot of players comment on radio, theyve all hinted at some kind "bounty" on every team.

punishment seems really harsh and arbitrary. Two game suspension and a draft pick would have been fine.

An legit appeal process should be put in place for discipline actions.[/quote]

I think when you're paying for players to get knocked out of the game, the line between playing hard clean football and dirty football has been seriously blurred.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=over the mountain;902401]I havent read everything there is on this but imo giving an incentive to take a player out doesnt mean encouraging your players to play dirty.

[B]Imo it means encouraging hard hits within the rules.[/B]

Hearing alot of players comment on radio, theyve all hinted at some kind "bounty" on every team.

punishment seems really harsh and arbitrary. Two game suspension and a draft pick would have been fine.

An legit appeal process should be put in place for discipline actions.[/quote]

Let's not forget that the biggest reason for such a harsh penalty isn't exactly the bounty program itself, but the fact that the Saints denied they had one and then later it was discovered they had lied about it. That's where the harshness of this punishment is coming from. If the Saints had admitted it from the beginning, the punishment would probably have been steep, but I don't think you would have seen coaches being banned from the league indefinitely.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=Mattyk;902482]I think when you're paying for players to get knocked out of the game, the line between playing hard clean football and dirty football has been seriously blurred.[/quote]

The line has been unequivocally crossed.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=FRPLG;902480]And the answer to everyone who say "well other teams do it" is...they're the ones who got caught.[/quote]

It's hilarious that people think that's a valid excuse.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=Mattyk;902486]It's hilarious that people think that's a valid excuse.[/quote]

Yes. If we end up getting dinged for it then it'll probably be deserved. If I am Snyder I am doing everything in my power right now to investigate this internally and be forth-coming beyond reason. Get in front of it.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

So Sean Peyton is now a tainted coach.
Does he ever come back?
Do they look for a new head coach ASAP?

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

My only problem with this is the timing, it should have been a little bit sooner. Otherwise, penalties are fully warranted.

Coach Williams will get reinstated next year if he plays it right. Saints won't miss a step without Payton, their offensive coordinator has a lot of experience with that team, the defense under Spags won't be a problem.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=FRPLG;902488]Yes. If we end up getting dinged for it then it'll probably be deserved. If I am Snyder I am doing everything in my power right now to investigate this internally and be forth-coming beyond reason. Get in front of it.[/quote]

You sure arent Sntder because there's no way he'd be forthcoming about anything related to the Skins.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=FRPLG;902488]Yes. If we end up getting dinged for it then it'll probably be deserved. If I am Snyder I am doing everything in my power right now to investigate this internally and be forth-coming beyond reason. Get in front of it.[/quote]

Skins are already in the clear. Per Charlie Casserly when he talked to the league he said the Saints are the only team that will be punished.

The big thing here is the Saints were warned, continued the behavior, and covered it up.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

Posted by Ruhskins a few pages back, worth repeating...

[QUOTE]For all the conspiracy theorists that believe the Redskins will get punished...

Charley Casserly ‏ @CharleyCasserly
NFL tells me that they did not find a system in Wash, buffalo and Tenn where players had bounties offered to injure them. [/QUOTE]

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

As I understand it, every team has to submit in writing to the league offices by the end of next week any info they have on possible similar bounty-like situations and proof that it has been stopped...or something along those lines

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;902234]Roger Goodell has lost his mind. These suspensions are too harsh. The cap penalties on the Cowboys and Redskins was too harsh. Under Goodell's watch the game is getting weaker and weaker. ............. ... The Saints might not have a team. What about Williams former teams. Are the Bills and Redskins going to be penalized. This reeks![/quote]


[quote=Evilgrin;902451]Crap decision because way to many other teams do it, and it's been going on in the NFL forever. Goodell is a moron, get rid of him.[/quote]


[quote=DCtoAZ;902268]You really think that is deserved ?? You gotta be getting me man .. this is football ... 99% of the NFL players don't think this is deserved .. this is by far the most BS move the God-dell has ever done ... the fact that SpyGate didn't get the hoodie suspended and this blows a team away for a YEAR .. ........ ...........the Shield is out of control with power.[/quote]


[quote=skinsfan69;902333]Mr. Commish needs to really have some of his power stripped away. The guy is an idiot. What the Saints did was wrong. But you're going to take away peoples way of making a living? For something that's been going on since the start of football? Really? ........[/quote]


Some of you really need to talk less and read more. This isn't about your perception of what they are trying to do with football. This isn't about a bounty system that Gregg Williams has been doing for years on end. This isn't about a man drunk with power trying to exert his will on the game we all love. This isn't about any of those things. This is about a coverup, lying, and deception. The initial "punishment" from the NFL was a simple warning..."don't do it". That's it. Nothing. Zilch. Why? Because they do know that many teams do it. However, when they approach you about it, you acknowledge it, and change your course of action.

What did the Saints do? They lied about it. Denied it. Covered it up for a grand total of 3 years. THIS is what this is about, not the actual bounty which you all keep harping on. I think we all know that the coverup on scandals generally make things worse. Take a look at the MLB steroid scandals. Do people even talk about the guys that came out and admitted it? Nope. Who do we harp on? They guys that are trying to cover it up.

Stop. Think. Stop overreacting. Goodell is doing the job he's paid to do, and with the blessings of the owners, even if it doesn't always pan out for them. Goodell has shown throughout his tenure so far that he will not accept being lied/deceived to. Vick did it and got slammed. Pacman Jones did it and got slammed. What did you think was going to happen when the Saints did it? Arrogance is the cause of a many man's downfall. I feel no pity for any involved.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

NPR is even covering this story & the Tebow trade, the best explanation I heard was that the league is using this as a legal strategy to show that it is serious about player safety. NFL is facing recent suits from players & the research on concussions is not looking good for the game in general.

Same thing Mike Wise said in his column today; Goodell is using this both as a warning for any future occurences, and to clearly set the NFL's stance on player safety.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

They violated written rules. They denied it. They lied about it having taking care of it. They had a convicted felon contribute funds to this. They got what they deserved

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

And then there is this: [url=http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/warren-sapp-fingers-jeremy-shockey-saints-bounty-snitch-203130611.html]Warren Sapp fingers Jeremy Shockey as the Saints’ bounty snitch | Shutdown Corner - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

key to remember when reading this story, that these are grown men and not 12 year olds

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

What's worse, the rat or the guy who rats on the rat?

Sapp shouldn't have said anything.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

Given the gravity of the situation, the "rat" deserves a medal

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=SmootSmack;902502]They violated written rules. They denied it. They lied about it having taking care of it. They had a convicted felon contribute funds to this. They got what they deserved[/quote]

Psh, convicted felon convicted melon, who cares. Screw this pansy ass league full of sissies, this is the last straw! I can no longer be a fan of football.

/sarcasm

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=SmootSmack;902502]They violated written rules. They denied it. They lied about it having taking care of it. They had a convicted felon contribute funds to this. They got what they deserved[/quote]

Saints took it too far but these punishments are simply ridiculous.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=skinsfan69;902511]Saints took it too far but these punishments are simply ridiculous.[/quote]

Well just 2 games is even more ridiculous. The ONLY thing that I think could maybe be a bit too much is that Payton is essentially suspended for much of next off-season. Lift the suspension after the playoffs and let him be involved with the team for senior week, combines, pro days, free agency

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=Mattyk;902504]What's worse, the rat or the guy who rats on the rat?

Sapp shouldn't have said anything.[/quote]

If he 100% trusts his source, and it sounds like he does, then why not? To me the rat looks way worse here than Sapp.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

I think the lies and denials made it the level it is.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=SmootSmack;902512]Well just 2 games is even more ridiculous. The ONLY thing that I think could maybe be a bit too much is that Payton is essentially suspended for much of next off-season. Lift the suspension after the playoffs and let him be involved with the team for senior week, combines, pro days, free agency[/quote]

This investigation went on for 2 years. Goodell knew about it. Why didn't he stop it when it was going on? He's so worried about safety then he should've came out and said..."anyone caught doing this will be suspended and docked draft picks"...right there he could've ended this right away. Whether it's right or wrong this has been the culture of football. Defensive players, next year, will try and knock out offensive players. The only difference is funds won't be exchanged.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

This conversation is getting absurd, **taps out**

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=SmootSmack;902502]They violated written rules. They denied it. They lied about it having taking care of it. They had a convicted felon contribute funds to this. They got what they deserved[/quote]

Who was the convicted felon?

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=skinsfan69;902513]If he 100% trusts his source, and it sounds like he does, then why not? [B]To me the rat looks way worse here than Sapp[/B].[/quote]

Wow. Just wow. You'd fit right in with Baltimore's mean streets.[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Snitchin%27]Stop Snitchin' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

For those who have a problem with this, who would side with rulebreakers, liars and decievers, who, by doing so, would encourage deceit in others and endorse activity that, [I]at the very least[/I], blurs the lines between good hard play and causing intentional harm, I just don't know what to say. Integrity, sportsmanship, honesty ... are these concepts you endorse? Or are they just empty words symbolizing archaic concepts easily discarded when they become obstacles to acheiving a goal?

If you believe in these concepts or believe they are concepts for which we as a society ought to strive - defend the Payton's, Williams' and Loomis actions in this matter in a way that demonstrates how those actions exhibited, promoted or in any way protected these concepts. [HINT: "B/c everybody does so it" is [I]not[/I] such a demonstration].

Despicable conduct warranting harsh sanction.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=SmootSmack;902516]This conversation is getting absurd, **taps out**[/quote]

Although fitting, "absurd" is not the word I would use. I am having a hard time not being completely disgusted by some of the arguments being made in opposition to this.

Shock, a sort of resigned "Wow, I knew it would be bad but this is surprising", sure - I get that. However, the vehemence with which rule breaking liars are being defended is both mind boggling and disheartening.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=skinsfan69;902513]If he 100% trusts his source, and it sounds like he does, then why not? To me the rat looks way worse here than Sapp.[/quote]

DAS RITE DAS RITE. snitches get stitches dawg. Fo'realz.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=skinsfan69;902513]If he 100% trusts his source, and it sounds like he does, then why not? To me the rat looks way worse here than Sapp.[/quote]

He should have confirmed it with more than just once source.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=SmootSmack;902512]Well just 2 games is even more ridiculous. The ONLY thing that I think could maybe be a bit too much is that Payton is essentially suspended for much of next off-season. Lift the suspension after the playoffs and let him be involved with the team for senior week, combines, pro days, free agency[/quote]

2 games would have been downright laughable and would have sent a weak message.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=skinsfan69;902515][B]This investigation went on for 2 years. Goodell knew about it. Why didn't he stop it when it was going on?[/B] He's so worried about safety then he should've came out and said..."anyone caught doing this will be suspended and docked draft picks"...right there he could've ended this right away. Whether it's right or wrong this has been the culture of football. Defensive players, next year, will try and knock out offensive players. The only difference is funds won't be exchanged.[/quote]

Not sure if you don't understand the concept of lies and cover-ups, or if you're just not paying attention

[quote]
“Clearly, we were lied to,” Goodell said. “We investigated this back in 2010, we were told it was not happening, it continued for another two years until we got credible evidence late in the 2011 season and we were able to identify significant information that verified from multiple sources that this was going on for a three-year period.”

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/roger-goodell-stands-by-saints-suspensions-we-were-lied-to/]Roger Goodell stands by Saints’ suspensions: “We were lied to” | ProFootballTalk[/url]
[/quote]

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=mbedner3420;902523]Who was the convicted felon?[/quote]

[url=http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/3/2/2840512/mike-ornstein-new-orleans-saints-bounty-program]Mike Ornstein, A Felon, Contributed To Saints Bounties And Left Email Trail - SBNation.com[/url]

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

As part of the suspension, is Payton forbidden from having contact with Saints employees?

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=Mattyk;902539]Not sure if you don't understand the concept of lies and cover-ups, or if you're just not paying attention[/quote]

I understand it clearly. I'm over it.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

The nfL commissioner judgment was right. Everybody involved in whatever form or fashion should have received harsh discipline. Sean Payton, being the head coach, should have put a stop it when he found out about it so him being the head coach and not to do anything about it and then lie about it why his punishment was so harsh. He was worthy of what he got.

Gregg Williams was fortunate that he wasn't banned for life from the NFL. I thought that would be his punishment. Luckily for him that didn't happen.

As for as the Saints GM and the other front office person, the commissioner of the NFL could have went a little bit lighter. I feel the coaches are more involved than the front office people.

The draft picks taken away should have been second round this year and a first rounder next year. And the $500,000 fine should have been more.

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;902541]As part of the suspension, is Payton forbidden from having contact with Saints employees?[/quote]

I'm pretty sure as on April 1st he can't have any direct contact with the Saints, employees, or players...

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

Well........there will no longer be any suggestion that players are treated more harshly than coaches and mgmt in the eyes of the Commissioner..........

Re: Bountygate Punishment for the Saints
 

I heard an interesting point on Yahoo Sports Radio this morning. Think it was Chris Russell.

The league said they've been investigating this for 3 years. Gregg Williams was hired by the Rams in January, just two months before his punishment that the league knew about. All coaching hires much be approved by the NFL/Commissioner. They approved his hire by the Rams. Then, they suspended him, leaving the team without a coach.

Sounds EXACTLY like the crap they pulled with our salary cap punishment. They approved the signings, then handed out punishments for the moves they just approved!

It's almost like Goodell is intentionally setting teams up for punishments and it's affecting the teams' offeason plans and ultimately the product they're able to put on the field.

He's out of control. This needs to be stopped. Goodell is acting like a dictator. I don't throw that word around lightly either, but he seems to care more about his power than the product for the fans or even financially.

The Saints DID do wrong and need to be dealt with. I'm not defending him or denying a punishment was appropriate (even though it seems too harsh), but that point about them approving Gregg Williams' hire by the Rams about 9 weeks ago really got me thinking about the league's actual interests/intentions for the teams. Sabotage is starting to look like a possibility. Is this a punishment/power trip for the lockout and negotiations with ownership? The league did not get their 18 game schedule so now Goodell is throwing the hammer down on the teams as much as he can? It's in the best interest of the league to be able to field the best teams they possibly can and now Dallas, Washington and New Orleans have been severely hampered in doing so, 3 of the more popular and profitable teams in the league. Is it a ploy to help the smaller markets be more competitive? I don't know but I'm very suspicious. The timing of the punishments and the fact that all of these issues are popping up just a season away from the labor talks makes me wonder.

Also, the Saints will be in the HOF Game...so instead of talking about the HOF inductees, we'll have to listen to talk about bounties and watch their replacement coaches in action. The league should move the Saints out of that game in August (plenty of time) for the sanctity of the weekend which will probably be ruined now.