Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Not interested - any guy this sensitive is a diva, the last thing we need at QB.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SouperMeister;537142]Not interested - any guy this sensitive is a diva, the last thing we need at QB.[/quote]

A talented young QB acting like a diva...amazing! Didn't John Elway act like a diva before he even got in the league? All Cutler wants is a head coach that is not pining for Cassel. I will take him on my team anyday.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I guess I just still don't get the hate for Campbell. I really think he's progressing well enough to be a solid starter for us for a number of years into the future...

I don't put him on any elite level by any standards, but I just don't understand why we can't give this guy time. He's played better than just about any other QB we've had in the last 20 years (going post 1991), minus Johnson...I think we need to just let him develop.


(Thats not saying I would not take a guy like Cutler, but I just don't get the hate on Campbell... not so much in this thread as in general)

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;531964]I like Jason Campbell more than most, but I would take Cutler in a heartbeat. I disagree with you, however, when you imply that he is available or that the Broncos would deal him for a 1st round pick. The teams that approached them did so because McDaniels is the new coach and they though maybe he would rather bring Cassell with him to Denver. Didn't happen and the Broncos would be absolutely insane to trade Cutler for the 13th pick. Cutler is the best young QB in the league. If Denver can get a run game he'll be one of the great ones. So I'd take him, but he ain't coming.[/quote]


If JC doesn't produce this season or significantly improve he should be let go. I just see an average NFL QB in him at best if he doesn't do it this season. With that being said, Zorn too has to produce to keep his job. I don't think it will happen, but if a trade could be done, that might be something to look into in order to have something to build upon post JC/Zorn. Collins is too old anyway. Also, with Cutler in the fold, maybe that will light a fire under JC to perform better. The '10 QB class is going to be very good, but if we just repeat our record last season those guys will be long gone by the time our draft slot is on the clock.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Gmanc711;537144]I guess I just still don't get the hate for Campbell. I really think he's progressing well enough to be a solid starter for us for a number of years into the future...

I don't put him on any elite level by any standards, but I just don't understand why we can't give this guy time. He's played better than just about any other QB we've had in the last 20 years (going post 1991), minus Johnson...I think we need to just let him develop.


(Thats not saying I would not take a guy like Cutler, but I just don't get the hate on Campbell... not so much in this thread as in general)[/quote]

It is not hate, just disillusionment. With the help of the Redskin Park propaganda machine, this kid was talked up way too much I think. He has a lot of talent for sure, but his success at Auburn was with a nice O line and the best backfield college football has ever seen in a very long time. As for him being the best Skin QB post '91, with the exception of Brad Johnson, that isn't saying much. He still has to surpass Frerotte in passing yardage(on par to do that by midseason '09), and unless he can get real production from those rook WR's he will have to wait til next season to beat Frerotte's TD mark on the all time list. That being said, any other post '91 Qb hasn't started for more than 2 seasons anyway, with the exception of Gus, so any average to decent QB is bound to be the best of the bunch.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;537159]It is not hate, just disillusionment. With the help of the Redskin Park propaganda machine, this kid was talked up way too much I think. He has a lot of talent for sure, but his success at Auburn was with a nice O line and the best backfield college football has ever seen in a very long time. As for him being the best Skin QB post '91, with the exception of Brad Johnson, that isn't saying much. He still has to surpass Frerotte in passing yardage(on par to do that by midseason '09), and unless he can get real production from those rook WR's he will have to wait til next season to beat Frerotte's TD mark on the all time list. That being said, any other post '91 Qb hasn't started for more than 2 seasons anyway, with the exception of Gus, so any average to decent QB is bound to be the best of the bunch.[/quote]Does the Redskins propaganda machine also own the rights to Campbell's career statistics (college and pro) and his game film? If so, I have every right to call conspiracy theory, re: Campbell is a good QB!

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=celts32;537143]A talented young QB acting like a diva...amazing! Didn't John Elway act like a diva before he even got in the league? All Cutler wants is a head coach that is not pining for Cassel. I will take him on my team anyday.[/quote]
It'll be a treat having both CP and JCutler sarcastically call Zorn a 'genius', saying '...can't throw on my behind', 'give me an elite line to...' etc. They'd make great homies...

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;537115]Cutler kind of has had a reputation for being a jerk in league circles long before all this started.[/quote]

He's always seemed like a punk to me. Maybe now we know why Rivers hates him so much.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;537157]If JC doesn't produce this season or significantly improve he should be let go.I just see an average NFL QB in him at best if he doesn't do it this season. With that being said, Zorn too has to produce to keep his job.[/quote]
What is the definition of produce? As Tripp said, his stats show he is productive. I assume you mean number of wins, or going deep into the playoffs, I just wonder what you need to see from him to make you say he should stay.

[quote=GusFrerotte;537157]I don't think it will happen, but if a trade could be done, that might be something to look into in order to have something to build upon post JC/Zorn. Collins is too old anyway.[B] Also, with Cutler in the fold, maybe that will light a fire under JC to perform better[/B]. The '10 QB class is going to be very good, but if we just repeat our record last season those guys will be long gone by the time our draft slot is on the clock.[/quote]
Do you think Cutler would come here to be JC's backup??? never in a million years. If he came JC would go, or we would have the biggest QB controversy since Babe/Heath.

We just need to say no, of course, I doubt the question was ever really asked.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;537172]It'll be a treat having both CP and JCutler sarcastically call Zorn a 'genius', saying '...can't throw on my behind', 'give me an elite line to...' etc. They'd make great homies...[/quote]

Well personally I would like to send CP packing but his cap number sort of prevents that.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SouperMeister;537142]Not interested - any guy this sensitive is a diva, the last thing we need at QB.[/quote]

The more I hear about this story the more I agree wih you. Cutler seems like a spoiled baby. I just heard he's not even returning calls from the owner. That's just insane, If the guy that signs your check calls you, you pick up the damn phone.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;537173]He's always seemed like a punk to me. Maybe now we know why Rivers hates him so much.[/quote]

Well Rivers rep is not all that great either. A lot of QB's are cocky and diva like...these two guys have probably been told they were great since they were 8 years old. Of course they have big egos.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

A quick Campbell/Cutler comparison-
JC (Jason Campbell)-36 starts, 16-20 W-L record, 35 TD, 23 INT, 80.4 QB rating

JC (Jay Cutler)-37 starts, 17-20 W-L record, 54 TD, 37 INT, 87.1 QB rating

Cutler has been in a much more passer friendly, aggressive offense for his starts that Campbell was. He also had elite level WR talent in Brandon Marshall and had Rod Smith for his first 21 starts. Add in an established offense and experienced coach/playcaller in Shanahan it's not hard to figure out why he shines a little brighter in the TD category.

Where it really matters however is in the W-L column. Cutler has never won anywhere, not in college, not in the pros. Is he really that much of an upgrade from Campbell?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Paintrain;537188]A quick Campbell/Cutler comparison-
JC (Jason Campbell)-36 starts, 16-20 W-L record, 35 TD, 23 INT, 80.4 QB rating

JC (Jay Cutler)-37 starts, 17-20 W-L record, 54 TD, 37 INT, 87.1 QB rating

Cutler has been in a much more passer friendly, aggressive offense for his starts that Campbell was. He also had elite level WR talent in Brandon Marshall and had Rod Smith for his first 21 starts. Add in an established offense and experienced coach/playcaller in Shanahan it's not hard to figure out why he shines a little brighter in the TD category.

Where it really matters however is in the W-L column. Cutler has never won anywhere, not in college, not in the pros. Is he really that much of an upgrade from Campbell?[/quote]

In my mind he is...but I am not here to bash Campbell. I think Campbell can develop into a good starter. I just think Cutler has already shown he's a good starter and he could become great.

I discount Cutlers W/L record becasue his defense is awful.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Was his defense terrible in college too? Just asking I really didn't follow him in college.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=celts32;537198]In my mind he is...but I am not here to bash Campbell. I think Campbell can develop into a good starter. I just think Cutler has already shown he's a good starter and he could become great.

[b]I discount Cutlers W/L record becasue his defense is awful.[\b][/quote]
If that's the case, how many of Campbell's losses do you discount because of the defense or other factors? Does the Rams loss count against him (Kendall fumble at the end of the 1st half, deep pass with less than 2 mins leading to the game winning FG)? Does the Cowboys loss in '07 count against him (4 TD given up to T.O.)? Does the SF loss count against him (giving up a game winning drive with less than 2 mins)? How can you apply that standard to one JC and not the other JC?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=celts32;537187]Well Rivers rep is not all that great either. A lot of QB's are cocky and diva like...these two guys have probably been told they were great since they were 8 years old. Of course they have big egos.[/quote]

I'm not talking about ego, I'm talking about him being a jerk. There's a difference.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;537199]Was his defense terrible in college too? Just asking I really didn't follow him in college.[/quote]

Well, playing for Vanderbilt in the SEC, his teams were usually pretty overmatched on both sides of the ball. I will say that he probably gets some of his jerk attitude from his dad. I remember when Vandy played Florida in the Swamp during Cutler's last season, they were hanging tight with the Gators, and he was lighting it up. His dad got into a shouting match with Gator fans and was doing a mock gator chomp right in the face of some girls. Pretty lame. The look on his face when Florida ended up winning was great.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I dont think theres any question that Cutler is a better QB than Campbell is at this point in thier careers. However, Cutler isn't that much better... atleast not enough to warrant giving up our first rounder, and thats exactly what it would take to get him.

At this point, we've already paid Campbell a 2M bonus - if we were going to get rid of him, we should have done it a few weeks ago. Jason Campbell is our starter in 2009. If he gets the job done, we can extend him, give him a high tender, or franchise him in 2010. If he doesnt (much more likely), we will simply let him walk and get a 3rd round comp pick for him in 2011.

I was a proponent of trading Campbell earlier in the offseason, but at this point he's definitely going to be our starter this year (not that there was really ever any doubt about that to begin with). He's the best QB on our roster by far, and we need to hope he improves. If not, we can put Brennan in there half-way through the season and see if he has anything. No matter what happens, we'll have a clear picture of our QB situation (even if that picture is bleak), by the end of the season.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;537204]I dont think theres any question that Cutler is a better QB than Campbell is at this point in thier careers. However, Cutler isn't that much better... atleast not enough to warrant giving up our first rounder, and thats exactly what it would take to get him.

At this point, we've already paid Campbell a 2M bonus - if we were going to get rid of him, we should have done it a few weeks ago. Jason Campbell is our starter in 2009. If he gets the job done, we can extend him, give him a high tender, or franchise him in 2010. If he doesnt (much more likely), we will simply let him walk and get a 3rd round comp pick for him in 2011.

I was a proponent of trading Campbell earlier in the offseason, but at this point he's definitely going to be our starter this year (not that there was really ever any doubt about that to begin with). He's the best QB on our roster by far, and we need to hope he improves. If not, [B]we can put Brennan in there half-way through the season and see if he has anything[/B]. No matter what happens, we'll have a clear picture of our QB situation (even if that picture is bleak), by the end of the season.[/quote]

Nice to see the Colt Brennan talks are still alive and well on The Warpath. :D


I have full faith in Campbell that if given a competent O-Line, that he can be a great QB in this league for the Skins.

Doesn't matter who's taking the snaps with the lack of protection our line provided last season.

We need to keep him.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;537186]The more I hear about this story the more I agree wih you. Cutler seems like a spoiled baby. I just heard he's not even returning calls from the owner. That's just insane, If the guy that signs your check calls you, you pick up the damn phone.[/quote]

It sounds to me like he is just trying to whine his way out of Denver b/c they dumped the coaches he liked.

Newsflash: Take off the pampers and be a man. If you think they treated you disrespectfully, show'em up with your play not your mouth.

I join the "not gonna happen" crowd. Even if it could, I wouldn't touch this whiner with a 10 foot pole.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

The Lions are the most common team being mentioned as a possible trade partner for the Broncos, but a lot of people here are buzzing about the Browns (which wouldn't make any sense, why would the Broncos trade him inside the conference?)

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Paintrain;537200]If that's the case, how many of Campbell's losses do you discount because of the defense or other factors? Does the Rams loss count against him (Kendall fumble at the end of the 1st half, deep pass with less than 2 mins leading to the game winning FG)? Does the Cowboys loss in '07 count against him (4 TD given up to T.O.)? Does the SF loss count against him (giving up a game winning drive with less than 2 mins)? How can you apply that standard to one JC and not the other JC?[/quote]

I think a lot of the losses are not on JC. I already told you I am not bashing JC. I am not actively looking to replace JC at all. I just happen to love Cutler and if I can get Cutler I would do it. If I can't I am perfectly happy with JC as the starter. Thinking that Cutler is an upgrade over JC does not mean I hate JC.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;537232]It sounds to me like he is just trying to whine his way out of Denver b/c they dumped the coaches he liked.

Newsflash: Take off the pampers and be a man. If you think they treated you disrespectfully, show'em up with your play not your mouth.

I join the "not gonna happen" crowd. Even if it could, I wouldn't touch this whiner with a 10 foot pole.[/quote]

There must something about Denver and Whiners. Remember when Elway was drafted by the then Baltimore Colts and he refused to play for them unless he was traded? He got his wish and was traded to the Broncos.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I am gonna base this post on the assumption that everything Cutler has said is basiaclly true. Only because Denver hasn't really contradicted it. First Cutler is a douche. This should have been handled internally. That being said I can't blame the guy for being pissed. First they fire his coach(I know "wah!!!") then they promise him they won't fire his OC and they do. Then they hire a guy who comes in and wants to dump his ass for another QB. Yes he should handle it internally but the Broncos should shut the hell up about him "being ateam leader". They aren't treaing him like a team leader. And the idiocy of the head coach big timing Cutler in the meeting takes the cake. As HC he needs to be cultivating relationships...not telling hi QB he would trade at any time if the deal was right. That's just dumb. I think they are all being wankers.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Buster;537228]Nice to see the Colt Brennan talks are still alive and well on The Warpath. :D


I have full faith in Campbell that if given a competent O-Line, that he can be a great QB in this league for the Skins.

Doesn't matter who's taking the snaps with the lack of protection our line provided last season.

We need to keep him.[/quote]

If Campbell appeared to be a failure half-way through the season, what reason would we have NOT to try Brennan?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SmootSmack;537234]The Lions are the most common team being mentioned as a possible trade partner for the Broncos, but a lot of people here are buzzing about the Browns (which wouldn't make any sense, why would the Broncos trade him inside the conference?)[/quote]

For Brady Quinn maybe?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I wouldn't trade a player of Cutler's caliber within conference much less in division. Unless the deal was remarkable.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;537201]I'm not talking about ego, I'm talking about him being a jerk. There's a difference.[/quote]

I have heard Rivers charicterized as a jerk more often then Cutler. And honestly I don't care...I think both are great. I am willing to accept some jerkiness or diva behavior if it comes along with a great QB. A jerk OL or a jerk WR...not so much but for a great QB I will put up with a little bit more.

I know Smootsmack said he was a jerk and maybe he has info I don't but the way he's acting now comes off more as a baby to me then a jerk. babies grow up but jerks never change.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I'd trade Campbell and one of our mid round picks for Cutler in a heart beat. The way this is going, that deal may get accepted. I really don't see Cutler as a baby in this situation. Cutler has been at the Broncos facility all off season working on the new play book, working out, etc. He reportedly wanted to work out the deal on conference calls, etc. To me, it looks like the Bellichek asshole has rubbed off on McDaniels. This article by Mort is pretty good: [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805]Meeting with Josh McDaniels, GM backfires, Jay Cutler asks Denver Broncos for trade - ESPN[/url]

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

i dont see jason campbell as any more than an adequate starting qb. if we could wheel and deal reasonably for cutler that would be fantastic. i dont see it happening but campbell is nothing special, he should have shown more by now. we will see this upcoming season though, because like i said i dont see us aquiring cutler.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Seems he skipped a charity dinner where he was a scheduled guest. Link would'nt post. He's not making himself look any better.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

53Fan -- he still donated a large sum of money to that charity.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

This JLC post seems to fit in with this thread:

Jay Cutler a Redskin?
Jay Cutler is the flavor of the day/week/month, so my inbox is now stuffed with inquiries about him. (Covering the Redskins is the football equivalent of covering the Yankees or Red Wings, with every player examined and debated for a possible roster spot on a daily basis.)

So now it's Cutler, eh? Well, my take on this is that the dude wants to get paid, period, whether it's in Denver or Winnipeg. And given the state of panic that Broncos owner Pal Bowlen appears to be in over this whole saga, and the fact he rivals Daniel Snyder when it comes to spending, I don't see this kid leaving town. Just my hunch for now. If/when he gets that Ben Roethlisberger contract, he's suddenly going to be drenched in orange and talking about his dream of being the next Elway and spending his career in Denver.

And the bottom line is that the Broncos don't have to do anything if they don't want to. The kid has three years left on his rookie contract, and if he wants to hold out, so be it. Somehow I don't see it getting to that point.

As for the Redskins, well, they've certainly made no long-term commitment to Jason Campbell; forget about getting him a new contract. And Vinny Cerrato won't even call him the quarterback of the future. So would I rule out the Redskins sniffing around on a Pro Bowl QB? Heck, I never rule anything out.

But finding a way to stuff in a $15-million-a-year quarterback and the inevitable $45 million or more in guarantees when you didn't have the cap room to squeeze in Ray Willis would be something. And, again, it's not like the Skins have any more significant restructuring candidates sitting around the locker room or high-salaried veterans they can just jettison.

It would take a bounty to meet Denver's asking price, were this whole drama to reach that stage. We're talking multiple first-round picks in all likelihood. And if Denver Coach Josh McDaniels is telling the truth about not wanting picks for Cutler in any hypothetical, and instead wanting players, that pretty much takes the Skins out of the running.

There are far too few true potential franchise QBs in the league, let alone young ones, to let them get away. You don't see guys who have put up Cutler's numbers being traded very often, and had he gone, it would have only been for another young QB whom McDaniels obviously believes is a budding superstar (Matt Cassel).

A lot of Redskins fans are suggesting the team simply package Jason Campbell for Cutler, but that seems farfetched. McDaniels made it pretty clear Cassel was his guy, and I think he clearly wants someone he can mold. JC has already been through a career's worth of system and coordinator changes. That's not exactly a blank slate.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

That's a solid post by JLC. We can bounce hypotheticals around all we want, but there is no way in hell Cutler will be a Redskin.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Daseal;537258]53Fan -- he still donated a large sum of money to that charity.[/quote]

I didn't realize that. They neglected to put that in the article I read. I guess he just didn't want to be there with people from Denvers FO. It's just a messed up situation.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GMScud;537283]That's a solid post by JLC. We can bounce hypotheticals around all we want, but there is no way in hell Cutler will be a Redskin.[/quote]

JLC's not really the bastion of insider knowledge or insight. Remember he's the one who virtually swore up and down in every pre-free agency article that the Redskins wouldn't be in on Haynesworth. How did that work out for him.

Now I highly doubt the Redskins will be in on Cutler (thankfully) but he's pretty much the last guy I'd look to for insight to the Redskins thoughts and actions.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

absolutely a zero chance we are going to land cutler. we are doomed for jason campbell for the next year

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Ok, I give our first, third and JC, for Cutler. then I draft two Olinemen with 5 and 6.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;537553]Ok, I give our first, third and JC, for Cutler. then I draft two Olinemen with 5 and 6.[/quote]

wow :nono: