Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=12thMan;923121]I don't expect Romney to make this the center piece of his campaign and [B]I certainly don't expect it to energize the base like some here think it will.[/B] Fact is millions upon millions have been helped by this law. That's not even in dispute. Now that it's been deemed constitutional by the highest court in the land, that too is off the table.

So exactly what is the argument that's going to fire up the base? A bunch of fancy charts, graphs, and Ops written by some egg heads at Heritage Foundation? Yeah, good luck with that.

It's the law of the land. Could use some improvements, but this thing is set in stone. Get over it.[/quote]You check Romney's fundraising numbers today?

The gov't forcing people to buy health insurance or pay a penalty...tax...or whatever Obama calls it today fires people up. The gov't forcing religious based charities and hospitals to violate their deeply held beliefs or be fined out of existence fires people up.

This certainly ain't anywhere near close to over.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923118]AS USUAL, YOU OVERSIMPLY CRAP AND ASSUME ANYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOU IS "IDIOTIC".

Obamacare and Romneycare have very key differences, for those who like facts rather than all caps and condescending BS, here's some good info:

[URL="http://mittromneyandhealthcare.blogspot.com/p/romneycare-vs-obamacare.html"]Mitt Romney and Healthcare: Romneycare Vs. Obamacare[/URL]

[URL="http://spectator.org/archives/2012/02/15/obamacare-vs-romneycare-a-cruc/1"]The American Spectator : Obamacare vs. Romneycare -- A Crucial Difference[/URL]

[URL="http://mittromneycentral.com/resources/romneycare/"]RomneyCare - The Truth about Massachusetts Health Care | Mitt Romney Central[/URL]
Pay particular attention to point #6, Romney's vetoes that were over-ridden by a Dem state legislature.[/quote]

Interesting stuff on the Romney vetoes, Sammy. I didn't know about them. Thanks for that.

The Romneycare vs. Obamacare link is less helpful as it oversimplifies things in my eyes. For example, the "bipartisan support" part when the legislature was 87% Democrat. That's not exactly the same "bipartisan" reality that one finds on Capitol Hill.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923118]AS USUAL, YOU OVERSIMPLY CRAP AND ASSUME ANYONE WHO DOESN'T AGREE WITH YOU IS "IDIOTIC".[/quote]

You oversimplified my statement in which I oversimplified. I have never insinuated that because you don't agree with me, it means you are a idiot. I said,(or implied rather) that if you aren't going to vote for Obama based on the national healthcare program, but are planning on voting for Romney, who is the founder of such program, it's pretty idiotic.





[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923118]Obamacare and Romneycare have very key differences, for those who like facts rather than all caps and condescending BS, here's some good info:

Pay particular attention to point #6, Romney's vetoes that were over-ridden by a Dem state legislature.[/quote]

You might as well have linked me to FOX News Sammy. You expect me to believe he's going to put ANYTHING remotely bad on his major website? No, he's going to slant it to make it look like he's the guy you should be voting for. Take this for example.

[IMG]http://pages.suddenlink.net/nazgull/Romneycare.jpg[/IMG]

Strong bipartisan support? Is that why they overrode his vetoes? Also, is he really going to compare the state run government bipartisan levels to that on the national level? ....lol I think we all know the GOP goes out of it's way to stonewall anybody not in their group. Why? So they can point a finger come next election and SAY LOOK!! HE"S DONE NOTHING!


[IMG]http://pages.suddenlink.net/nazgull/Romneycare2.jpg[/IMG]

Look at the word play here. "A mere modest 1% of the state budget". Notice he doesn't use overall numbers like he did with the national bill (500 BILLION). Also, isn't cutting Medicare by 500 billion a good thing to you GOPers?

[IMG]http://pages.suddenlink.net/nazgull/Romneycare3.jpg[/IMG]

LOOK GUYS! IT"S INTENDED AS A SOCIALISM!!! Who cares how long the bill was? You mean to tell me that 70 page bill is more detailed than that 2,074 bill? Doubt it. I'm willing to bet you that everything on the right side could be applied on the left side as well, but you know they aren't going to put that in. The bill was probably so long because it ended up with billions in pork.
[url=http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/07/09/in_health_bill_billions_for_parks_paths/]In health bill, billions for parks, paths - The Boston Globe[/url]


As far as your point #6, lets look at what amendments he vetoed.

[quote]Romney vetoed eight sections of the health care legislation, including a $295-per-person fee on businesses with 11 employees or more that do not provide health insurance.[47][48] Romney also vetoed provisions providing dental and eyeglass benefits to poor residents on the Medicaid program, and providing health coverage to senior and disabled legal immigrants not eligible for federal Medicaid.[49][50] However, the state legislature overrode all of the vetoes.[51]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governorship_of_Mitt_Romney#Health_care]Governorship of Mitt Romney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
[/quote]


Puhleease. Give a friggin break Sammy. For all intents and purposes, the Obamacare and Romneycare are THE SAME THING. You can nickle and dime the few discrepancies, but a spade is still a spade bro.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Giantone;923120]Sammy you say facts yet you posted a link to Romney web page.....oh I'm sure that is full of facts.:doh:[/quote]

:lol:

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

You guys are just playing a game semantics. The fact of the matter is republicans thought of and inspired the individual mandate and Romney was the first politician to bring us closer to universal healthcare. I think reasonable can agree that Romney is not the ideal vanguard of the anti-obamacare movement. A simple message wins the day and Romney's messages is not going to be simpler than Obama's on healthcare.

It is not the second quarter, there 1 sec left in the game and one last hail marry play remains. The filibuster is a deadly play. Healthcare is here to stay move the **** on.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923129]You oversimplified my statement in which I oversimplified. I have never insinuated that because you don't agree with me, it means you are a idiot. I said,(or implied rather) that if you aren't going to vote for Obama based on the national healthcare program, but are planning on voting for Romney, who is the founder of such program, it's pretty idiotic. [/quote]In your mind Obamacare & Romneycare are the same, in evaluating the details they are different.

You can capitalize sentences and throw around your normal rhetoric, bottom line is a majority in this country don't want Obamacare, Romney is the alternative, and we'll see how this plays out in Nov.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[url=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/28/oreilly-promised-to-apologize-for-being-an-idiot-if-heath-law-was-upheld/]O’Reilly promised to ‘apologize for being an idiot’ if heath law was upheld | The Raw Story[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923141]In your mind Obamacare & Romneycare are the same, in evaluating the details they are different.

You can capitalize sentences and throw around your normal rhetoric, bottom line is a majority in this country don't want Obamacare, Romney is the alternative, and we'll see how this plays out in Nov.[/quote]


Sammy in base they are the same,like it or not.Yes there are some differences in language and such...but make no mistake they are based on the same thing.When I retire in 36 months I'll have to pay 1200 a month for health care for my wife and myself and does'nt include .....what I call healthy care "preventative" care ,my wife has had 2 bouts of skin cancer once others see that word either they won't accept her or will not pay for any treatment related to it.
In 1994 my dad sufferd a stroke and 4 days after he was released home(bed ridden and unable to talk or walk)Blue Cross of New York dropped him....my Mom lost our family home becuase of this,now yes she was mad and fought back and in 7 years won, now that was 2 years after dad had passed and the house was gone to pay bills,sorry for the tiraid but under this new bill that can't happen and that's good.

P.S....the majority in this country "DO" want Obamacare as you put it....they just don't want what the GOP is selling it as.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=NC_Skins;923143][URL="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/28/oreilly-promised-to-apologize-for-being-an-idiot-if-heath-law-was-upheld/"]O’Reilly promised to ‘apologize for being an idiot’ if heath law was upheld | The Raw Story[/URL][/quote]


Jon Stewart is great on this........



[url=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/28/jon-stewart-mocks-reactions-to-the-health-care-ruling/]Jon Stewart mocks reactions to the health care ruling | The Raw Story[/url]

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/time-side-conservatives-feel-betrayed-john-roberts-223111651.html]Time Is on His Side: Conservatives Feel Betrayed by John Roberts - Yahoo! News[/url]

Of course its Rush who fires the first shot. Love it

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Chico23231;923153][url=http://news.yahoo.com/time-side-conservatives-feel-betrayed-john-roberts-223111651.html]Time Is on His Side: Conservatives Feel Betrayed by John Roberts - Yahoo! News[/url]

[B]Of course its Rush who fires the first shot. Love it[/B][/quote]

Limbaugh said that if the ACA goes into effect, he's moving to Costa Rica. Costa Rica has universal health care. The hypocrisy in his statement is rich.

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;923141]In your mind Obamacare & Romneycare are the same, in evaluating the details they are different.

You can capitalize sentences and throw around your normal rhetoric, bottom line is a majority in this country don't want Obamacare, Romney is the alternative, and we'll see how this plays out in Nov.[/QUOTE]

This isn't going to be the main issue in November. Its going to be the economy.

Also if "America" doesn't want this then why did its elected officials, which represent the people, pass it?

Sounds like a cop out argument/response to me.

[QUOTE=saden1;923131]You guys are just playing a game semantics. The fact of the matter is republicans thought of and inspired the individual mandate and Romney was the first politician to bring us closer to universal healthcare. I think reasonable can agree that Romney is not the ideal vanguard of the anti-obamacare movement. A simple message wins the day and Romney's messages is not going to be simpler than Obama's on healthcare.

It is not the second quarter, there 1 sec left in the game and one last hail marry play remains. The filibuster is a deadly play. Healthcare is here to stay move the **** on.[/QUOTE]

Didn't Gingrich, when in the House, propose the individual mandate?

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Giantone;923148]Jon Stewart is great on this........



[url=http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/06/28/jon-stewart-mocks-reactions-to-the-health-care-ruling/]Jon Stewart mocks reactions to the health care ruling | The Raw Story[/url][/quote]

As usual Stewart (and Colbert) cuts through the bullsh*t and hits the nail on the head:

“So you’re going to keep everything but the mandate, A.K.A the thing that pays for all of it?” Stewart wondered. “So the fiscally responsible Republican is saying, don’t worry, you’re going to get all the goodies, but not the bill. Cus that would be taxes, and that is tyranny.”


The hypocracy by the GOP is amazing on this issue. Whats more amazing is if you ask them "whats your health plan?", they have none.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923123]You check Romney's fundraising numbers today?

The gov't forcing people to buy health insurance or pay a penalty...tax...or whatever Obama calls it today fires people up. [B]The gov't forcing religious based charities and hospitals to violate their deeply held beliefs or be fined out of existence fires people up.[/B]

This certainly ain't anywhere near close to over.[/quote]

When religions start paying some taxes in this country they can have a say about that, until then -- offer contraceptives. They're not forcing anyone to USE them, just OFFER them to people interested.

It's very simple -- we're the only first world nation without some sort of universal healthcare solution. Our medical care is lagging behind a majority of the world. Socialized programs aren't perfect, but there's a reason why many of them dominate the best healthcare rankings in the world. Take a look at France sometime.

It comes down to this -- we're forcing insurance companies to insure everyone. That means they have to take a risk, to help counteract that risk, everyone HAS to have insurance. It's fair and good for our country. We need to start focusing our efforts on infrastructure, education, and the general welfare of our people.