Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

I mean, its obvious, but I'll say it anyway; Haynesworth is the biggest reason that Orakpo and Carter have the sack numbers that they do. Obviously both are talented guys, both were high picks, but neither would be enjoying the type of success that they are this season without the big guy up front. Orakpo has gotten some nice pressure, while remaining a liability in coverage (though it does seem that they have tried to use him less in that role in recent weeks ... but that is anecdotal). I can't think of an instance when he made an absolutely "wow" play (though I am very likely overlooking something). He is solid, will have a good chance of winning DROY because of his sack numbers, but the "great pick" remains #92. Haynesworth is the guy that OC's have to gameplan around, Carter and Orakpo pick up the residuals.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

I'd like to point out that D-line, and more specifically DE, was as glaring of a deficiency as O-line last offseason. Ppl forget how much we had neglected drafting DE's with first day picks until Orakpo. Skins fans had been calling VC an idiot for passing up on Ware and Merriman and a handful of other guys throughout the years. Two years prior to this offseason didn't our D-line have the worst sack total in NFL history for a season. Everyone was saying that though our D was good but we weren't getting TO's b/c the QB had all day in the pocket.

I realize we acquired AH in the offseason, but we also expected Randy Thomas to be back full-time along with recently acquired DD on the other side playing next to a would be healthy Chris Samuels. When Vinny made the BO pick I'm sure he thought he had upgraded the Offensive line enough, that his #2 picks from last year would help a 2nd-year-in-the-system JC out a little bit, and that with BO (and AH) we would be an elite defense. Unfortunately for him the rug got pulled out from under him in the offseason and early part of the regular season in terms of the O-line. Our defense has played well IMO but struggles when our Offense fails to put together drives. I'd love to point fingers at VC just like anyone else, but not picking Oher over BO is not something I can put on him. I think he made the best decision with the information available to him.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=Rajmahal33;626553]I'd like to point out that D-line, and more specifically DE, was as glaring of a deficiency as O-line last offseason. Ppl forget how much we had neglected drafting DE's with first day picks until Orakpo. Skins fans had been calling VC an idiot for passing up on Ware and Merriman and a handful of other guys throughout the years. Two years prior to this offseason didn't our D-line have the worst sack total in NFL history for a season. Everyone was saying that though our D was good but we weren't getting TO's b/c the QB had all day in the pocket.

I realize we acquired AH in the offseason, but we also expected Randy Thomas to be back full-time along with recently acquired DD on the other side playing next to a would be healthy Chris Samuels. When Vinny made the BO pick I'm sure he thought he had upgraded the Offensive line enough, that his #2 picks from last year would help a 2nd-year-in-the-system JC out a little bit, and that with BO (and AH) we would be an elite defense. Unfortunately for him the rug got pulled out from under him in the offseason and early part of the regular season in terms of the O-line. Our defense has played well IMO but struggles when our Offense fails to put together drives. I'd love to point fingers at VC just like anyone else, but not picking Oher over BO is not something I can put on him. I think he made the best decision with the information available to him.[/quote]

Overall, I agree. However, what if a team picking 14-18 offered their 1st, and a 2nd as a trade. (Remember, Cleveland picked up how many picks?). Or even their first, and next years first, for our 13th. We could have traded down, gotten Oher, and depending on the other compensation, either more OLine help, another 1st rounder next year, or a different DE, who might have been good enough with AH and AC on this line as well.

I just think rushing up at the beginning of your time is silly, especially with a golden trading chip.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

The reason I say that I hope Jarmon pans out is that he hasn't had enough opportunity + we are just 9 games into the season. In that context Rak has proven himself more than Jarmon which is why I say that I hope Jarmon pans out.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

Like someone said earlier noone can predict injuries, so if our oline was healthy and our once weak link dline which is now a strength were both playing at a high level ppl would be praising our FO but because we lost some players to injury ppl want to question the RAK pick and call them idiots. If we had drafted Oher and passed on RAK it would have been the same as last yr when everyone was complaining that the Dline is not getting pressure and we dont get turnovers as a result. AH would be getting doubled and/or tripled and Carter would not be as effective without another rush presence from the other side. Its really a darned if you do darned if you dont scenerio, we had limited picks to fill alot of holes and i dont blame the FO for jumping all over RAK who many thought would be gone top 5 and passing over Oher who was said to be the 3-4 best tackle in the draft.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

We also essentially got two positions out of Orakpo-LB and DE. It's not like we could flip Oher back and forth between left and right tackle depending on the down

That's not to say I wouldn't have been happy with Oher.

But really, it shouldn't be about Oher vs. Orakpo. We should recall that we had no 2nd round pick to do anything with. And we took two linebackers in the middle rounds. Those were some missed opportunities to get offensive linemen

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=Ruhskins;626455]B.A. Baracus?

[IMG]http://blogs.sundaymercury.net/anorak-city/ATEAM%20BA.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

I guess so

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

to me the orakpo pick was a no brainer. the only real other decision was oher. but im sure i was just like the rest of you nervously waiting through picks 8-12 hoping orakpo wasnt going to be drafted before us. if orakpo was drafted then i had alil consolation in the fact that oher wouldnt be a bad second option.

given our need for passing rushing, orakpo was the most obvious selection.

my biggest worry was that vinny was going to trade down putting him out of the top part of the draft where talent is alot less evident.

our FO does pretty well drafting in the top half of the first round, give them a bunch of 2nd rounders or late 1st rounders where it takes quality scouting and analysis to make pay off picks and we run into trouble.

also AH's contribution can not be overlooked. everyone said AH's impact doesnt show up on stats but the increase in the stats for guys around him. well, carter has what 8 sacks and orakpo 7? thats pretty evident.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=over the mountain;626653]to me the orakpo pick was a no brainer. the only real other decision was oher. but im sure i was just like the rest of you nervously waiting through picks 8-12 hoping orakpo wasnt going to be drafted before us. if orakpo was drafted then i had alil consolation in the fact that oher wouldnt be a bad second option.

given our need for passing rushing, orakpo was the most obvious selection.

my biggest worry was that vinny was going to trade down putting him out of the top part of the draft where talent is alot less evident.

our FO does pretty well drafting in the top half of the first round, give them a bunch of 2nd rounders or late 1st rounders where it takes quality scouting and analysis to make pay off picks and we run into trouble.

also AH's contribution can not be overlooked. everyone said AH's impact doesnt show up on stats but the increase in the stats for guys around him. well, carter has what 8 sacks and orakpo 7? thats pretty evident.[/quote]
Yeah Carter is having a pro-bowl season all of a sudden and Orakpo is inching his way into the DROY discussion.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=SmootSmack;626627]We also essentially got two positions out of Orakpo-LB and DE. It's not like we could flip Oher back and forth between left and right tackle depending on the down

That's not to say I wouldn't have been happy with Oher.

But really, it shouldn't be about Oher vs. Orakpo. We should recall that we had no 2nd round pick to do anything with. And we took two linebackers in the middle rounds. Those were some missed opportunities to get offensive linemen[/quote]

Yeah I don't understand our strategy. Either we go BPA in the middle rounds, which is retarded to begin with because talent discernment in the middle rounds is essentially a crap shoot, and we're awful at it apparently. Or we go for Position Need, which doesn't make any sense then to draft two MORE LBs after drafting Orakpo.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=FRPLG;626703]Yeah I don't understand our strategy. Either we go BPA in the middle rounds, which is retarded to begin with because talent discernment in the middle rounds is essentially a crap shoot, and we're awful at it apparently. [B]Or we go for Position Need, which doesn't make any sense then to draft two MORE LBs after drafting Orakpo.[/B][/quote]

In retrospect that is the part that I don't get. If we had planned to play Rak at LB, then we took care of LB in the first round, why draft more?

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=Lotus;626727]In retrospect that is the part that I don't get. If we had planned to play Rak at LB, then we took care of LB in the first round, why draft more?[/quote]

I am not defending the position necessarily, but DB's and LB's can play on special teams whereas OL cannot. I guess they were putting a higher priority on getting guys who could potentially play teams.

Because I wanted to be able to attack Cerrato in context, I went back and looked at the offensive lineman that he passed on in the draft (and this does not include those who were not available because of the Jason Taylor trade).

Kevin Barnes - passed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Luigs"]Jonathan Luigs[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.J._Lang"]T.J. Lang[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Ohrnberger"]Rich Ohrnberger[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Olsen"]Seth Olsen[/URL] (all 4th round picks)

Cody Glenn - passed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenuki_Tupou"]Fenuki Tupou[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamon_Meredith"]Jamon Meredith[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Robinson"]Duke Robinson[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Johnson"]Herman Johnson[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Gardner_%28American_football%29"]Andrew Gardner[/URL]

Robert Hensen - passed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Slauson"]Matt Slauson[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Fanaika"]Paul Fanaika[/URL]

At the time I wanted Meredith, but he has since been released by Green Bay (a team with serious OL needs) and not sure if he has seen any time in Buffalo. Duke Robinson has not played in any games. Herman Johnson has not appeared in any games. Gardner has not appeared in any games. Which is not to say that the Redskins might not be able to use a few of those guys, or that they would not be better than Mike Williams, but I think the indictment of Cerrato is more a long-term neglect of the Oline rather than anything specific to drafting the two linebackers this year.

It only gets bad if you go back and look at all the offensive linemen that would have been available had the Redskins not traded a 2nd round pick for Jason Taylor. But I like to take comfort by reminding myself that Cerrato would have drafted a linebacker (Sintim?) in the 2nd anyway.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;626742]I am not defending the position necessarily, but DB's and LB's can play on special teams whereas OL cannot. I guess they were putting a higher priority on getting guys who could potentially play teams.

Because I wanted to be able to attack Cerrato in context, I went back and looked at the offensive lineman that he passed on in the draft (and this does not include those who were not available because of the Jason Taylor trade).

Kevin Barnes - passed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Luigs"]Jonathan Luigs[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.J._Lang"]T.J. Lang[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rich_Ohrnberger"]Rich Ohrnberger[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Olsen"]Seth Olsen[/URL] (all 4th round picks)

Cody Glenn - passed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenuki_Tupou"]Fenuki Tupou[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamon_Meredith"]Jamon Meredith[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Robinson"]Duke Robinson[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Johnson"]Herman Johnson[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Gardner_%28American_football%29"]Andrew Gardner[/URL]

Robert Hensen - passed on [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Slauson"]Matt Slauson[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Fanaika"]Paul Fanaika[/URL]

At the time I wanted Meredith, but he has since been released by Green Bay (a team with serious OL needs) and not sure if he has seen any time in Buffalo. Duke Robinson has not played in any games. Herman Johnson has not appeared in any games. Gardner has not appeared in any games. Which is not to say that the Redskins might not be able to use a few of those guys, or that they would not be better than Mike Williams, [B]but I think the indictment of Cerrato is more a long-term neglect of the Oline rather than anything specific to drafting the two linebackers this year.[/B][/quote]

That is a reasonable and intelligent point.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

It really is the 3rd+ round picks that has everyone ticked off I think. I would have loved to have gotten some o-linemen in the 3rd or so on even if they werent all that ready to start just yet. At least we would know we did the right thing to some degree.

Re: Brian Orakpo = Beast
 

[quote=FRPLG;626703]Yeah I don't understand our strategy. Either we go BPA in the middle rounds, which is retarded to begin with[B] because talent discernment in the middle rounds is essentially a crap shoot[/B], and we're awful at it apparently. Or we go for Position Need, which doesn't make any sense then to draft two MORE LBs after drafting Orakpo.[/quote]

Excellent point. I understand BPA at the top of the draft where the hope is that a first round pick will be a starter with the potential to be something special. At worst, you have young starting quality depth even if no immediate need.

In the middle rounds, it should all be about the best guy at position of need. It's even more of a crapshoot (Marques Colston any one?) so throw as many darts at the damn board as you can. No one expects a 4th-6th rounder to start but, what the hell, occasionally they do.