Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]My real problem, I suppose, is that the ability of a quarterback shouldn't take nine games to measure (like last year), but shouldn't take 19 minutes either (like this year). In our vocal complaining last year that Gibbs took too long to make the change, we never anticipated that he'd be this quick with the hook this year.

He's also set an ugly precedent. If Brunell has an inefficient game on Monday with a few ill-advised turnovers, is it even possible to re-insert Ramsey after the way he was pulled? Would the insertion of Campbell be "giving up" on the season? Would keeping Brunell in after a poor performance hurt the chemistry of the team given the recent move?

If Mark Brunell has a game like Sunday's - which projects to about 100 yards passing on 20 attempts with the team getting 4 FGs - what's the mood going to be like on the offense?

More importantly, what does Peter King think?!?!?[/QUOTE]

If Brunell stinks on Monday, or even if he just makes a few TOs, he won't get yanked. That's because he's always worked with a much longer leash from Joe than Ramsey was allowed. Don't ask me to explain why, because I can't fathom anything that Joe is doing lately. So, better get used to Brunell (TOs, weak arm and all), because he'll be in there unless he gets hurt. He was allowed a leash of 9 games last year before even Joe had to admit that things were so bad that a change was needed. Why should I believe it will be any different this year?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]cuz of his performance in the regular season last year? when he was 34? think thats a reasonable basis to assume dont you? sure, he may have improved in the regular season, but its sucks that we didn't get to see if Ramsey did too.[/QUOTE]

[color=black]Last year is what it is.[/color]

[color=black]But, look at the whole picture. Call me crazy, but I've said before that it's hard to believe that a quality QB like Brunell all of a sudden just lost it. Sure those things do happen, I'm not saying it's not possible, but based on his past success over the course of his career along with his improved play this preseason, I think it's worth giving him a 2nd shot. After seeing him this preseason it appears that last year might have been more of a fluke than an indication his career was over. [/color]

[color=black]People seem to be hanging on the potential of Ramsey, he might do this, and he might be able to do that. But what about the potential of Brunell? Why is this being completely dismissed? Because of one bad stretch last year? [/color]

[color=black]To clarify I'm not talking about long-term potential with Brunell. Obviously he's nearing the end of his career, I'm talking about short-term potential. Who's to say he can't go back in and be a productive and winning QB for this team? Plenty of QBs have their most productive years in their 30s nowadays. Plenty of players have an off year or even a bad year, only to turn around and resurrect their careers.[/color]

[color=black]People have seemingly closed the book on Brunell, and I think that might be a bit premature. Remember when Gibbs said the final chapters on Brunell haven't been written yet? We all thought he was crazy. Then after a solid preseason many of us raised our eyebrows and said hmmm, maybe he wasn't kidding. [/color]

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]you know what TAFKAS? i have NO idea. i wish he was in a regular season situation long enough to even get a read. i really don't think practice and the preseason is where the real story is told, and even if it was, i think Ramsey played well enough to start a couple of whole games.[/QUOTE]

A 65 QB rating with 4 INTs was playing well enough to start a few games?

The preseason wasn't enough for you to say he was shaky, ok that's fine I guess.

But were you there all during the offseason workouts, during minicamps and training camp?

I'm not saying I was either, but obviously Gibbs has a better grasp of the situation than any of us do, and I guess I'm blindly following him but I trust he understands the situation much better than we do and I'm 110% sure his decision is based on the entire offseason and preseason and not just 3 series against the Bears.

He's had the entire offseason and preseason to show he's done with making bad decisions, holding on to the ball too long and turning it over. I don't know how anyone can honestly say he's done that. He just hasn't. Gibbs obviously doesn't see a quick fix in store for Ramsey, so why let him continue to struggle and potentially hurt the team's chances at getting out to a good start.

Least year he struggled in the preseason, did anyone want him starting last year at this time? By the end of the season he was much improved, and perhaps the same thing will happen again this year. I just don't see how anyone can say he's ready right now though.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

it's the favoring of a couple of 2nd half preseason performance as a standard over 16 regular season games i have a problem with.

Strahan, Kearse, and Ware on the road in a division game is light years different from Billy Bob who isn't even given the whole scheme, in the second half of a preseason game with a team we won't even play in the regular season.

last season is the best indication of real performance under fire we really have, and should have at least earned Ramsey more than a quarter of play is all.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]it's the favoring of a couple of 2nd half preseason performance as a standard over 16 regular season games i have a problem with.

Strahan, Kearse, and Ware on the road in a division game is light years different from Billy Bob who isn't even given the whole scheme, in the second half of a preseason game with a team we won't even play in the regular season.

last season is the best indication of real performance under fire we really have, and should have at least earned Ramsey more than a quarter of play is all.[/QUOTE]

Regardless of the competition, Brunell's passes had something behind them and he was on target. You just can't deny that.

As for Ramsey, I guess Gibbs should have just tossed out the offseason and preseason in his mind and said Ramsey deserves to start because of what he did at the end of the 2004 season? His performance since then should have no merit in the evaluation process?

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

practicing in shorts against people who don't have million dollar incentives based on injuring you is even more light years away than the regular season. i'm sure Brunell sparkled just as bright in practice and preseaon as he did last season, but again, we all know what happened after that.

that's what makes this all so hard, that Gibbs had 'seen something' and bet on Brunell before, and he LOST. to see the exact same scenario happen again with an even older QB, and less practice reps has to be the *biggest leap of faith* in his career.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]A 65 QB rating with 4 INTs was playing well enough to start a few games?

The preseason wasn't enough for you to say he was shaky, ok that's fine I guess.

But were you there all during the offseason workouts, during minicamps and training camp?

I'm not saying I was either, but obviously Gibbs has a better grasp of the situation than any of us do, and I guess I'm blindly following him but I trust he understands the situation much better than we do and I'm 110% sure his decision is based on the entire offseason and preseason and not just 3 series against the Bears.

He's had the entire offseason and preseason to show he's done with making bad decisions, holding on to the ball too long and turning it over. I don't know how anyone can honestly say he's done that. He just hasn't. Gibbs obviously doesn't see a quick fix in store for Ramsey, so why let him continue to struggle and potentially hurt the team's chances at getting out to a good start.

Least year he struggled in the preseason, did anyone want him starting last year at this time? By the end of the season he was much improved, and perhaps the same thing will happen again this year. I just don't see how anyone can say he's ready right now though.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Coach Gibbs is coach for good reason so let's let him coach, shall we. He has the ability to make the calls for the best of the team (as a whole) not just in the QB position. I personally think he was giving Ramsey a really "generous" chance to begin with by giving him the starting position. Yeah, I know Brunnell was horrible last year to say the least but that was 2004-2005 season, we are a year later and from what I have seen (this year) be it scrimmage, preseason or the first 19 minutes of game 1, season 2005-2006, a change needs to be made at QB and coach has the skill and knowledge to make changes as needed and that is what he did in this case.

For all that are calling Joe "a liar", would you rather have him stick to a preseason call to name Patrick as the starter QB or win football games....call me crazy or selfish even, but I would like to start winning football games.

At this point, if Brunnell does not produce and coach chooses to pull him after the first 15 minutes of game 2 and start Campbell, that's fine with me as long as we win football games.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Regardless of the competition, Brunell's passes had something behind them and he was on target. You just can't deny that.

As for Ramsey, I guess Gibbs should have just tossed out the offseason and preseason in his mind and said Ramsey deserves to start because of what he did at the end of the 2004 season? His performance since then should have no merit in the evaluation process?[/QUOTE]

nah, I won't deny it. but i've seen Brunell look great in the limited circumstances of preseason before. i've seen specks of brilliance in regular season play from him too. what i haven't seen is Brunell take it through a whole real game. maybe its the conditioning of a mid-thirties QB, i don't know.

if we get 80% of "preseason Brunell" in regular season games i think we'd go deep into the playoffs, but we don't get that. i guess Gibbs is betting on things being different enough for him to try again.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]That's why it's called a hypothetical.

Why are you assuming Brunell will suck?[/QUOTE]

I was just saying that in YOUR post you stated ramsey would suck which also implied that brunell for reason wont. There's no gaurantees either one will be any good, so talking about how ramsey was going to lead us to the brink of elimination without mention brunell (who's already done it to us) is shortsighted.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Ramsey hasn't exactly tore it up either and he was ranked near the bottom of the league in several categories as well.[/QUOTE]

but brunell was DEAD LAST. its going to be hard to defend or apologize for his stats last year. and both had more TOs than TDs.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Do you think Ramsey improved from the end of last season to the start of this season?[/QUOTE]

I don't know, in 19 minutes its pretty f**king hard to tell.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

He played a lot of preseason games, should have given us an idea. Just like we've always known about him, it's feast or famine when Ramsey is in the game.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72][color=black]Last year is what it is.[/color]

[color=black]But, look at the whole picture. Call me crazy, but I've said before that it's hard to believe that a quality QB like Brunell all of a sudden just lost it.[/color][/QUOTE]

kurt warner.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

At this point, I'm done arguing this. Mark Brunells play will decide it for all of us. As long as he is a solid, content QB, who can make a few plays when he has to, were going to be fine. We are not a football team that relies completley on our QB. If Brunell can make some throws on 3rd down, and keep defenses honest, we're going to be fine. However if he looks anything like he did last season, even if its just this week against Dallas, sh*t is going to hit the fan.

Re: Ramsey wants to be traded (merged)
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]He played a lot of preseason games, should have given us an idea. Just like we've always known about him, it's feast or famine when Ramsey is in the game.[/QUOTE]

Brunell rocked last season's preseason too, those are very special and limited circumstances. *if only* it translated 1:1 to the regular season..