Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=over the mountain;1125341]Im a Cousins fan but the 2 interceptions were on him to varying degrees. i didnt expect this level of inaccuracy from him. the inside post route was his money route but he seems to be off time, throwing it behind guys. i dont think he is throwing it late, just not leading guys enough.

with desean out, that intermediate middle area is not cleared out like it used to be. tighter windows but cousins has to improve his mid passing game. i did not expect this coming into week 1.

1st int - inaccurate ball, unfortunate bounce, nothing more to it imo.

2nd int - cousins makes a blind throw. Im guessing pre-snap he reads pressure and reads Grant as his hot route. But .... post-snap, cousins just throws it out there. i dont think he got to read the play post snap, i dont think he saw anything expect some big guys coming free towards him and he just throws it out there and hopes for the best. He just threw it out there hoping his pre-snap coverage read was accurate and Grant would be where he was supposed to be.

I know I am asking a lot, but it was 2nd and 8, not 4th down.

you just dont make a blind throw like that.

when live bullets are flying, im sure its hard to make proper split second decisions [B]but kirk didnt have to treat that down like the game was on the line. it wasnt[/B].[/quote]
So fawking true.This was a painful lost. We really would have been on the NFL map with a win yesterday.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1125338]Whenever it's first down for the Skins the defense knows it's a run.[/quote]They gotta sit down and get some honest self scouting going....identify and break their own tendencies.

One tendency I've been saying for awhile is too heavy with the 1st down runs and 2nd down pass.

I finally looked up the 2nd downs from (markbullock's spreadsheet) 339 2nd down plays.

235 passes
104 runs

If my math is correct thats 31% run vs 69% pass on 2nd down.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1125342]I dare say it's Litchenessitgieriietiger that needs a look in the off-season. Reading how good he is at making line calls but how poorly he's been graded each week. If we get pressure it IS often up the gut.[/quote]

We need a bigger, stronger center in the mold of Mack, Frederick, and Mangold but center is not at the top of our list of needs, IMO.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;1125342]I dare say it's Litchenessitgieriietiger that needs a look in the off-season. Reading how good he is at making line calls but how poorly he's been graded each week. If we get pressure it IS often up the gut.[/QUOTE]


Couldnt agree more. Everytime the floodgates open it is rite up the middle. We need to draft a C this offseason. Its very high up there on my team needs list.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=30gut;1125344]They gotta sit down and get some honest self scouting going....identify and break their own tendencies.

One tendency I've been saying for awhile is too heavy with the 1st down runs and 2nd down pass.

I finally looked up the 2nd downs from (markbullock's spreadsheet) 339 2nd down plays.

235 passes
104 runs

If my math is correct thats 31% run vs 69% pass on 2nd down.[/quote]

We are way too predictable. Atlanta was running two big, fat defensive linemen onto the field for first down and right back off the field, replaced by pass rushers, on second down all game long until the 4th Qtr.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=over the mountain;1125341]Im a Cousins fan but the 2 interceptions were on him to varying degrees. i didnt expect this level of inaccuracy from him. the inside post route was his money route but he seems to be off time, throwing it behind guys. i dont think he is throwing it late, just not leading guys enough.

with desean out, that intermediate middle area is not cleared out like it used to be. tighter windows but cousins has to improve his mid passing game. i did not expect this coming into week 1.

1st int - inaccurate ball, unfortunate bounce, nothing more to it imo.

2nd int - cousins makes a blind throw. Im guessing pre-snap he reads pressure and reads Grant as his hot route. But .... post-snap, cousins just throws it out there. i dont think he got to read the play post snap, i dont think he saw anything expect some big guys coming free towards him and he just throws it out there and hopes for the best. He just threw it out there hoping his pre-snap coverage read was accurate and Grant would be where he was supposed to be.

I know I am asking a lot, but it was 2nd and 8, not 4th down.

you just dont make a blind throw like that.

when live bullets are flying, im sure its hard to make proper split second decisions but kirk didnt have to treat that down like the game was on the line. it wasnt.[/quote]

I agree with this 100%. His 2 biggest issues are his inaccuracy and not knowing when to just take a sack or throw it away. On the pick 6 he just chucked it there but is getting a bit of a reprieve because Grant fell. He should've just took the sack and lived to fight another day.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=sdskinsfan2001;1125349]I agree with this 100%. His 2 biggest issues are his inaccuracy and not knowing when to just take a sack or throw it away. On the pick 6 he just chucked it there but is getting a bit of a reprieve because Grant fell. He should've just took the sack and lived to fight another day.[/quote]

Throw it away, yes, but he shouldn't have taken a sack in that situation.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

One thing that's alarming about kirk is his 10+ yard passing accuracy. It seems like he misses alot of throws downfield. Let's just remember this is an audition for him it's not like he's guaranteed the spot for the future.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1125351]Throw it away, yes, but he shouldn't have taken a sack in that situation.[/quote]

Throwing it away is always more ideal, I don't think he was outside of the pocket though on that play. Maybe he could have just fired it over both their heads on the sideline. Either option was better than the actual end result.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

How about we judge him on the last 5 games of the season not the first 5?

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1125353]One thing that's alarming about kirk is his 10+ yard passing accuracy. It seems like he misses alot of throws downfield. Let's just remember this is an audition for him it's not like he's guaranteed the spot for the future.[/quote]

Very alarming. But then he leads drives like the one to tie it up at end of regulation and looks great. Very inconsistent. Each time he throws a pass I literally have no idea what to expect.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=over the mountain;1125341]...
1st int - inaccurate ball, unfortunate bounce, nothing more to it imo.

2nd int - cousins makes a blind throw. Im guessing pre-snap he reads pressure and reads Grant as his hot route. But .... post-snap, cousins just throws it out there. i dont think he got to read the play post snap, i dont think he saw anything expect some big guys coming free towards him and he just throws it out there and hopes for the best. He just threw it out there hoping his pre-snap coverage read was accurate and Grant would be where he was supposed to be.

I know I am asking a lot, but it was 2nd and 8, not 4th down.

you just dont make a blind throw like that.[/quote]Your whole post was well said. And I agree.

Ideally I want Kirk to turn that throw down and either throw it away or scramble or just pull a Peyton Manning self-sack and throw yourself on the ground to avoid getting blown up.

A hitch is like a mini-curl/come-back route. And those aren't thrown against a CB sitting on the route. And to compound it Kirk was under pressure and didn't see the throw.

Lesson learned. Turn that route down next time this situation or similar occurs.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

Protip: You can't wait until the receiver stops and sits on a route before throwing the ball. You have to anticipate. He was definitely hurried on the throw but for those of you who insist that you don't throw until the receiver is where he is supposed to be know nothing about playing QB. You throw at the instant he cuts. Sometimes guys fall and sometimes DB's get good jumps (That didn't happen on that last play, just stating that it happens). Jason Campbell was a guy who liked to sit and wait for a receiver to be in the right place. He didn't throw a lot of picks but he also didn't do much else. Aaron Rodgers is praised for knowing where he's going to throw the ball for the snap and I can assure you he doesn't wait until the receiver is sitting on a route. That doesn't mean Kirk is playing lights out but he's playing above average and certainly is capable of leading this team as starting QB for the foreseeable future. There are teams with huge money QB's who aren't getting the quality of play at the position that we are.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=30gut;1125359]Your whole post was well said. And I agree.

Ideally I want Kirk to turn that throw down and either throw it away or scramble or just pull a Peyton Manning self-sack and throw yourself on the ground to avoid getting blown up.

A hitch is like a mini-curl/come-back route. And those aren't thrown against a CB sitting on the route. And to compound it Kirk was under pressure and didn't see the throw.

Lesson learned. Turn that route down next time this situation or similar occurs.[/quote]

See post #59. According to Cooley, it was more than a simple hitch.

Based on the analysis, he threw it where the CB would have to come through Grant's body to get the ball.

In other words, he threw it to the one place his guy could get the ball and the defender couldn't. It's either a completion or an incomplete on a hot route if Grant hadn't fallen down.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

Agree on the anticipation.

If he would have waited to see the throw he would have been sacked and the guy would have been covered.

Sometimes people fall down.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=RedskinJake;1125360]Protip: You can't wait until the receiver stops and sits on a route before throwing the ball. You have to anticipate. He was definitely hurried on the throw but for those of you who insist that you don't throw until the receiver is where he is supposed to be know nothing about playing QB. You throw at the instant he cuts. [/quote]

if you are referring to my post ...

Agreed as to what you said on a basic level for any timing/anticipation pass play call but that has nothing to do with with what I was talking about. i am a kirk fan, he is playing well but he certainly deserves criticism where criticism is deserved. hes the redskins starting QB, the most over analyzed dude in the land.

Kirk still needs to confirm coverage post snap for a split second before letting the ball go.

he just cant throw the ball out there in that situation trusting his pre-snap read will remain correct. thats classic kirk of last year. feel pressure = feel pressure to get rid of ball no matter = int.

bad decision, bad execution, bad result.

Kirk broke 2 of Rodger's 3 rules for not throwing a pick.

Rodgers described the three rules as "senses," saying:

"[B]One: No premeditated decisions[/B].

"[B]Two: Don’t make a blind throw.[/B] And that was a blind throw, meaning I didn’t look inside to see where the next coverage element was—that will get you sometimes. It got me against Conte.

"Three: Don’t throw it late down the middle."
--------------------------------

D jelly - i agree that looking at it, the corner appeared to have outside position which means that if grant had stayed up, the corner would have had to go through him vs being inside position and able to cut he route and step in front ..... but im not a fan of the decision regardless of corner back position.

the ball was too early anyway. had grant not fallen the ball would have hit him in the face the second he turned his head to locate the ball.

the protection was FUBAR, like 30gut said, just peyton manning the thing and live to see 3rd and 15 from the 50 yard line or so.

kirk needs to not try to make every play a positive one. gruden has been hammering the "no negative plays" thing since TC but you need to know score, down, distance, time. maybe kirk is too afraid to take a sack thinking we were in field goal range or close to it? idk but i do know that kirk would pay a million bucks to go back and just take the sack if he could.

it wasnt an all or nothing play. kirk needs to realize sometimes the D will out scheme or beat a skins on a 1 on 1 play, but dont compound it.

dont force the play.

the falcons won that play but they didnt have to win the game on it. avoidable. lesson hopefully learned for a young promising QB.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=punch it in;1125346]Couldnt agree more. Everytime the floodgates open it is rite up the middle. We need to draft a C this offseason. Its very high up there on my team needs list.[/quote]

I'd like:

2 OL, 1 veteran, 1 drafted
2 TE, 1 veteran, 1 drafted
1 WR, Drafted, 1st/2nd round big play type receiver
1 LB Drafted
2 DB, Drafted, 1 1st/2nd round caliber, 1 late/mid round steal

I think we have 8 picks as of now for 2016 so this is very do able and I think with Scot this would put us in very good shape and leaves him a few picks to play with as well.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

Anyone know if Keenan Robinson is playing banged up, had an awful game.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=over the mountain;1125364][B]if you are referring to my post ...[/B]
[/quote]

Not explicitly no.. That was a general statement for a wide range of fans but to your point, he was rattled on that play, no doubt about it. I do think that's something that he can get over by playing more and getting more confidence in actual games. He needs a little work but I really think he's been trending up with the exception of a few games last year that made me question if he'd get it straightened out. I'd love to see him keep improving and play 5-7 years. We could do a lot worse, and we have, than Kirk Cousins but for some reason there are a lot of fans waiting for him to fail.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=over the mountain;1125364]

kirk needs to not try to make every play a positive one. gruden has been hammering the "no negative plays" thing since TC but you need to know score, down, distance, time. maybe kirk is too afraid to take a sack thinking we were in field goal range or close to it? idk but i do know that kirk would pay a million bucks to go back and just take the sack if he could.

it wasnt an all or nothing play. kirk needs to realize sometimes the D will out scheme or beat a skins on a 1 on 1 play, but dont compound it.

dont force the play.

the falcons won that play but they didnt have to win the game on it. avoidable. lesson hopefully learned for a young promising QB.[/quote]

On your points here, I totally agree. That would be my only big complaint with Kirk is that he needs to take the game off his shoulders. You don't have to win the game for us. Just make the throws as expected and take what the defense is giving you. Will you lose a bunch of games this year, your damn right unfortunately, but just stick to the plan and be consistent so we can build around you. Robert had the same issue but Kirk's not quite as bad about it. A lot of that is the result of not having that 100% confidence of the organization. I think he feels that he has to force the ball in there if he's going to keep that job. Just do what you do. He's solidifying his position, even in losses, as long as he isn't throwing picks at the end of games that make people weary of him. He needs to be Alex Smith right now. He can be Brett Favre when they get the roster right.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=redskinjake;1125365]i'd like:

2 ol, 1 veteran, 1 drafted
2 te, 1 veteran, 1 drafted
1 wr, drafted, 1st/2nd round big play type receiver
1 lb drafted
2 db, drafted, 1 1st/2nd round caliber, 1 late/mid round steal

i think we have 8 picks as of now for 2016 so this is very do able and i think with scot this would put us in very good shape and leaves him a few picks to play with as well.[/quote]

1 qb

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[QUOTE=RedskinJake;1125365]I'd like:



2 OL, 1 veteran, 1 drafted

2 TE, 1 veteran, 1 drafted

1 WR, Drafted, 1st/2nd round big play type receiver

1 LB Drafted

2 DB, Drafted, 1 1st/2nd round caliber, 1 late/mid round steal



I think we have 8 picks as of now for 2016 so this is very do able and I think with Scot this would put us in very good shape and leaves him a few picks to play with as well.[/QUOTE]


Totally agree with your positions of need 100%. Im hoping qb is not one of them. Ill reserve judgement on that until after the season is over.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=punch it in;1125370]Totally agree with your positions of need 100%. Im hoping qb is not one of them. Ill reserve judgement on that until after the season is over.[/quote]

I don't think there are any more than 1 or 2 QB's in this draft but if someone with a lot of upside falls to the 4th or 5th round that could fit in at #3 and possibly #2 if we let Colt go elsewhere. I'd take one. Although I do think a veteran would help Kirk. You may notice I strongly value a mix of youth and veteran players at each position.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

After watching kirk play enough now the only QB I could come up with for a comparison is Chad Pennington but he isn't as accurate as Chad was. Anyone agree?

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1125379]After watching kirk play enough now the only QB I could come up with for a comparison is Chad Pennington but he isn't as accurate as Chad was. Anyone agree?[/quote]

We would be lucky if he compared to Pennington.

He was way better than Kirk so far.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

Yeah he was a good QB he just never got lucky in the playoffs it seemed. Also chad didn't turn it over as much. Kirk has alot to prove

Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

Kirk has still not started a full seasons worth of games. He has only started 5 as "thee" guy so I am not sure I can really compare him to anyone yet or that it would be fair to do so.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

At just 14 starts he deserves double that before we can tell what he really is, but unfortunately he's not giving us a ton of hope at the midway point.

Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1125386]At just 14 starts he deserves double that before we can tell what he really is, but unfortunately he's not giving us a ton of hope at the midway point.[/QUOTE]


Would agree Im not feeling completely like we found our guy, but he did seem rather poised at the end of regulation the last couple weeks. Ill leave the fall down / interception thing alone. Lets just say Grant keeps his footing and we move down the field though? Than Id feel a little better.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=punch it in;1125387]Would agree Im not feeling completely like we found our guy, but he did seem rather poised at the end of regulation the last couple weeks. Ill leave the fall down / interception thing alone. Lets just say Grant keeps his footing and we move down the field though? Than Id feel a little better.[/quote]

Kirk got two grades in the film review:

C overall.

A- at the end of the game.

[url=http://www.espn980.com/audio-vault/]Audio Vault | ESPN 980[/url]

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1125361]See post #59. According to Cooley, it was more than a simple hitch.

Based on the analysis, he threw it where the CB would have to come through Grant's body to get the ball.

In other words, he threw it to the one place his guy could get the ball and the defender couldn't. It's either a completion or an incomplete on a hot route if Grant hadn't fallen down.[/quote]Even if its a hitch that converts to an out..meaning the receivers runs a hitch then pivots into an out the initial part of the route is still a hitch/curl. And you typically don't throw those types of stop/out routes against CBs that are squatting on the routes with vision on the receiver and the QB before receiver is out of their break. Routes like that are 'given' as Bill Walsh would say and the Falcons CBs weren't giving it they were taking it away.

Alford was flat footed looking at Grant and Kirk. He never even thought about getting out of his backpedal I think Alford has a chance at that ball if Grant stays up or not.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1125379]After watching kirk play enough now the only QB I could come up with for a comparison is Chad Pennington but he isn't as accurate as Chad was. Anyone agree?[/quote]Kirk's book is still being written. The QB we face this week is a good comp. But so are Matt Schaub and Wrecks Grossman. Kirk has flashes where he's very good. He needs to improve consistency, decision making and accuracy to earn a starting job.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[QUOTE=30gut;1125393]Kirk's book is still being written. The QB we face this week is a good comp. But so are Matt Schaub and Wrecks Grossman. Kirk has flashes where he's very good. He needs to improve consistency, decision making and accuracy to earn a starting job.[/QUOTE]


Flashes are important because it means he is capable. Hopefully consistency comes with time. And by time i mean next week against the effin jets! Lol

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

I think the Jets are the toughest match-up we've had yet.

Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

The Jets have beaten the Browns Colts and Dolphins? Yes we lost to Miami. They lost to Philly. Every week I hear about how we are giving other teams too much credit. I am going to be the first to say we are giving them too much.
To quote so many other posts about so many other games "when the hell did they become the 85 Bears?" Oh and I will add that Ryan Fitzpatrick stinks. Bring em on!

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

we beat the jets!!! I am telling you we get it on track this week..SKINS 31 JETS 21..take it to the bank!!

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=Mattyk;1125386]At just 14 starts he deserves double that before we can tell what he really is, but unfortunately he's not giving [B]us[/B] a ton of hope at the midway point.[/quote]

Speak for yourself on whether or not Kirk has given us much to be hopeful about. I realize that he needs to become a more accurate passer and he's had some bad interceptions but he has also had some outstanding moments. He was outstanding during the game-winning drive against the Eagles. Just one week later, he took us down the field with less than 45 seconds left to tie the game against Atlanta. He was also making good throws and moving the chains in OT until he may or may not have made a poor decision and/or a bad throw that ended the game. It's those outstanding moments that give me plenty of hope for the future with Kirk at QB.

Still, as you pointed out, we don't yet know what we have in Kirk. I agree with you that he needs more starts so we can find out.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1125407]Speak for yourself on whether or not Kirk has given us much to be hopeful about. I realize that he needs to become a more accurate passer and he's had some bad interceptions but he has also had some outstanding moments. He was outstanding during the game-winning drive against the Eagles. Just one week later, he took us down the field with less than 45 seconds left to tie the game against Atlanta. He was also making good throws and moving the chains in OT until he may or may not have made a poor decision and/or a bad throw that ended the game. It's those outstanding moments that give me plenty of hope for the future with Kirk at QB.

Still, as you pointed out, we don't yet know what we have in Kirk. I agree with you that he needs more starts so we can find out.[/quote]

If cousins had more competent, consistent play in both the Miami and Atlanta games they would have been wins. He has been ok, but ok gets u 7-9 and 8-8. I need to see much better play to secure himself as the starter for next year.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=Chico23231;1125409]If cousins had more competent, consistent play in both the Miami and Atlanta games they would have been wins. He has been ok, but ok gets u 7-9 and 8-8. I need to see much better play to secure himself as the starter for next year.[/quote]

Guess what, Chico? I would be satisfied with 8-8 this season. Kirk is far from the only player who needs to develop for us to improve our W/L record. Plus, I think we need two more drafts and two more FA periods to become a perennial contender. I consider this to be Year 1 of a three year building process. I think Kirk is developing and I hope he gets where we need him to be by the time we're ready to win big.

Re: Falcons postgame positives and negatives
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1125410]Guess what, Chico? I would be satisfied with 8-8 this season. Kirk is far from the only player who needs to develop for us to improve our W/L record. Plus, I think we need two more drafts and two more FA periods to become a perennial contender. I consider this to be Year 1 of a three year building process. I think Kirk is developing and I hope he gets where we need him to be by the time we're ready to win big.[/quote]

We haven't won but 9 games since 2012 and all of a sudden everyone is too good for an 8 win season. I'm with you let's win 7 or 8 this year and get this train back on track..