Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=smootsmack]The real shame is that CRT3 isn't awake right now. Dude could be marching right along past the Morton avatar and onto Taylor with this thread alone[/QUOTE] Yes add another Avatar to the heap. At least there is no Smoot cause he is the next to go. I don't think Matty can keep up with the Avatar anyways as the speed that changes will happen in the next 2 weeks will be insane. Just remember the fact that we are releasing Coles really means nothing. The Redskins always win the Spring Super Bowl. I suspect we will see Porter or Muhammad.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=Shane]With all due respect to Laveranues Coles, this is great news to me. Coles was miserable and that has a very destructive effect on the atmosphere of the team. Give him credit for not going public – but the players all knew, the coaches – everyone.

We need “all for one and one for all” players on our team. That is what makes for a great team.

In addition, Coles may never get back to his pre injury form and if not, ability wise he is just getting too high a paycheck.

We have an excellent player in Taylor Jacobs who just needs room to blossom, and we may well have Mike Williams on our roster soon.

Gibbs made a typical super classy move in agreeing to release him outright. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That is good also in that in generates the respect of players, and potential free agents.

Speaking of free agents, I hope we get a player like Andre Davis. I hope we pass on those big names – unless the staff really comes to believe they would add a tremendous amount to the ballclub.

A potential lineup could include:

Taylor Jacobs
Mike Williams
Andre Davis
James Thrash

We probably need another free agent, but that is a good group right there in my view.

As far as being unhappy with the offense – those are just comments to be ignored. We are building something special here, and our offense is going to be super. Coles just doesn’t fit in with the kind of team we are building. I wish him well and hope he finds a team that is going to highlight him, and I hope he recovers from his injury soon. We will have an excellent receiving corps without him.[/QUOTE]
I like your outlook on this whole situation. Look at the glass as being half full instead of half empty. Being a Boston Red Sox fan im used to dissapointment. The Red Sox , this year, traded Nomar who in these parts was considered to be what a Red Sox player is and look the Red Sox are the world champs without him. However I do remember having the same pit in my stomach when i got that news as I do now. If a player is truely that unhappy on one hand i think its best to let him go on the other im afraid it sets a precident for other disgruntled players and that I dont like. Remember in the big scheme of things we are on the outside looking in and we dont know how bad it truely is. Yesterday is history tommorrow is a mystery we dont know what the future holds. We do know what our past is and that was two losing seasons with L.C. So in closing keep a stiff upper lip to quote us die hard Red Sox fans wait till next year!

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH!! I go out of town for a few days and THIS is what happens?!?!?!?! I'm sick to my stomach. I KNOW it's a classy move to just outright let Coles go, but this is a business and it would be better to trade him rather than "make friends."

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]Yeah I think 57 posts in about an hour is close to record for a non-game discussion thread. And at midnight no less! Where did everyone here about this? I saw it on wp.com and came here to see what everyone was saying. Little did I know it had just been posted on WP.com and I would be among the first Skins fans to have a seizure over this. There are Redksins fans everywhere just sleeping soundly now. Little do they know the importance of this night.[/QUOTE]

I am one of those fans just finding this out this morning and after reading the article I definitely am not the happiest person right now. I really liked the heart coles showed, but quitting after one year? I mean if the last couple games were an indicator of next years offense, I don't see why he would have such strong negative feelings about where the offense could go next year. If he were as much of a professional as most of us believed, he would make it so the organization not only got most of it's money back, but also recieved some type of compensation from his next team via trade.
There is no doubt in what is our primary objective in the offseason and unfortunately this year's WR pool is a bit shallow. Burress seems more capable of being a number one than porter to me or I'd take Mason as my number one wr. Either way we have to also draft wr, whether it be Williams or trading down a little and getting Williamson or someone else. And for saying the cap space being made HAS to go to resign Smoot doesn't make too much sense seeing as to how coles leaving the offense is twice the impact of smoot leaving the defense and the void being left by coles therefor needs more attention paid to it.

I hope working will help get this off my mind today but i'm getting the feeling that this is gonna be something that simmers in the background for a while. Well this is kind of a crappy way to start off the day.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Normally I am one to keep a cool head, but I say screw all this bullshit. Screw EVERYONE wanting to be traded and not being shown the "love" to stay around. I trust in Gibbs' system and I trust that no matter who leaves, he WILL find someone to replace them. This prima donna shit has got to stop. I always thought Coles was better than this.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I think everyone has forgotten about Antonio Brown. That guy has some real speed. I would hope with the departure of Gardner and Coles we could give this guy a serious chance at WR and not just KR. Best of all he's not making hardly any money. This is how Gibbs works, he finds solid players that other teams have given up on and gets the most out of them. I wouldn't be surprised if Gibbs hasn't had this planned for a while, either Coles gets the surgery or he's gone. I know Brunell didn't work out so good last season but I would like to see what he does next season with some actual talent at wide out. Not to say that Coles doesn't have talent but as stated earlier he hasn't been the same since the injury and if he wont get surgery to fix it, whats the point of him staying here anyway? I just hope he gives back enough so that we can go out and get a couple of cheap receivers like Brown under the radar that can contribute.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I gotta get involved in this thread, this is definitely not good.

First off, now that we're releasing LC, do you still trade Rod Gardner? I guess you do, because it saves you cap room.

So, the question is what happens next? I'm a financial analyst, so I'll hit you with the salary cap ramifications: Coles signed a 7-year deal with a $13 million bonus, meaning that bonus counts $1.857 million against the cap each year of the deal. He's played out 2 years of the deal, so the unallocated portion of his bonus would amount to 5 year's worth, or $9.286 Million. If he gives back all of that $9.286 Million, his bonus will clear off of the books, and his cap number in 2005 will decrease by $1.857 million. Plus we won't be paying him his base salary of $1.5 million, so that would go to savings, meaning we would save a total of $3.357 million in 2005.

We need to find out how much of his bonus he'll be giving back. The formula to find the effect on our salary cap if we cut him is this:

(9.286 - The Amount He Gives Back) - 3.357

If the number comes up negative, that means our cap goes down. If it comes up positive, it means his current 3.357 cap hit will get bigger.

Hopefully he'll give back at least $8 million of that bonus so we'll gain some cap room. If we get cap room, I gotta believe we have to make Derrick Mason our #1 priority, or the receiving corps is in some trouble.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I'd suspect that he's going to be giving back a large portion if not all of his due bonus in exchange for his outright release.

That must give us a little bit more to play with this offseason to perhaps pursue someone like Burress.

I'm just waking up and I'm still in shock.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I was just looking at the cap sheets and Coles # for 2005 is approx $3.3M, but in 2006 which is supposed to be a rough year for us cap wise his # is approx. $6.8M.

I know this move really stinks right now but for the cap it could be a great move.

(I'm trying my best to be optimistic here) :(

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Do we wait until after June 1st to cut him? Does that make a big difference?

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I am totally fine with releasing anyone who doesnt want to be a redskin.

Ramsey will silence the critics this year.

Let's get a solid #2 wideout via free agency and draft Williams or Edwards if theyre still around at #9. We'll be fine.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Remember guys it's the schemes & coaches that win the big one, not 1 or 2 guys. The Eagles have proved that over & over failing to win the big one 3 years in a row.

I say to Coles, go & play elsewhere, you have been injuried the majority of your tenure & we are spending enormous money on your contract, plus he is undersized for what Gibbs considers a true WR.

I think we will get some good out of this. Lets see where Gibbs takes us in the next few months approaching the draft.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=dirtbag2112]I am totally fine with releasing anyone who doesnt want to be a redskin.

Ramsey will silence the critics this year.

Let's get a solid #2 wideout via free agency and draft Williams or Edwards if theyre still around at #9. We'll be fine.[/QUOTE]

I do like the positive outlook. It's been a long long time since we've seen a stable Redskin coaching staff promote a WR from within, and I'd like to think that Taylor Jacobs can produce a little something if given the shot. This will be his 3rd year, and the 3rd year is often the charm for many WRs.

And remember, WRs are important to what Gibbs is trying to do with the offense, but getting Portis to a 4.0 or higher rushing average will be one of the things that makes the deep passing game click. But, as we all know, the most important part of getting that passing game in gear will be Ramsey's accuracy on the deep balls.

I'd like to see us get Derrick Mason and let Taylor Jacobs play the #2 role. We're always talking about how the Patriots are the model how they build their program through the draft and develop their players in-house. I do think we need a WR through free agency, since we're losing our top 2 starters, but sometimes you just gotta give the youngn's a shot and see what they can do!

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

If he wants to go let him. The main concern I have is that we recoup the total 5yrs of his signing bonus. If we do not I will come to conclusion that Dan and our front office are worthless. This is Coles decision and it should not cost us a penny.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=firstdown]If he wants to go let him. The main concern I have is that we recoup the total 5yrs of his signing bonus. If we do not I will come to conclusion that Dan and our front office are worthless. This is Coles decision and it should not cost us a penny.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Canuck, what will this do to our immediate cap situation?

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

lets just hope we can get something good for gardner as well and a majority of our money back too. its aggrivating because, coles had the ability of a great wr but then kept getting injured. its not his fault but if any team had the same amount of coaches in the past 10+ years as the skins any team would look as paltry as the skins.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I do like the positive outlook. It's been a long long time since we've seen a stable Redskin coaching staff promote a WR from within, and I'd like to think that Taylor Jacobs can produce a little something if given the shot. This will be his 3rd year, and the 3rd year is often the charm for many WRs.

And remember, WRs are important to what Gibbs is trying to do with the offense, but getting Portis to a 4.0 or higher rushing average will be one of the things that makes the deep passing game click. But, as we all know, the most important part of getting that passing game in gear will be Ramsey's accuracy on the deep balls.

I'd like to see us get Derrick Mason and let Taylor Jacobs play the #2 role. We're always talking about how the Patriots are the model how they build their program through the draft and develop their players in-house. I do think we need a WR through free agency, since we're losing our top 2 starters, but sometimes you just gotta give the youngn's a shot and see what they can do![/QUOTE]


as usual, another good post. I agree that it will be a good idea to look at mason, hes a great receiver thatw ill definitly be available. The Titans have some depth at that position. This definitly frees up a ton of money for 2006.

I agree its good to be optimistic, this does give us a lot more money... Its not like having Coles made us win. Hes a great recevier but with 90 catches he only brought one in for a score. from portis no less.

Heres where gibbs has to prove that he can make a system win without real big names.

You know what really pisses me off, im a huge madden fan and coles had 99 speed. The really the most intangable thing that you can get to change about a player in the game. none of the free agents, or draft picks are going to have that kind of speed, so sad.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Releasing Coles is not going to give us extra room under the cap. Reports are that he is going to repay half of the signing bonus, which will decrease our cap room for this coming year, albeit by a minimal amount. Regardless of the cap ramifications of this move, this will not change what our team is looking for in free agency and the draft. Gibbs and Co. have known for a while that Coles would be gone in the near future (L.C. reportedly requested a midseason trade last year, which was denied.) The team has known this would happen all along, just the fans didn't know. Gibbs has been preparing all along for next season without Coles.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]
You know what really pisses me off, im a huge madden fan and coles had 99 speed. The really the most intangable thing that you can get to change about a player in the game. none of the free agents, or draft picks are going to have that kind of speed, so sad.[/QUOTE]

LOL it's funny, I love Coles in Madden too and he's always my go to guy, but now that he wants out I just have a bad taste in my mouth with him. I'm gonna deal him away my next offseason.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Man this is good stuff. All I could do was laugh when I read this. So we definelt know we are drafting a WR. We are trying to trade Gardner also, so we are looking at our draft pick and thrash or Jacobs as a starter. *Not including a free agent pick-up.* Man this team gets better and better.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=DCopper04]Releasing Coles is not going to give us extra room under the cap. Reports are that he is going to repay half of the signing bonus, which will decrease our cap room for this coming year, albeit by a minimal amount. Regardless of the cap ramifications of this move, this will not change what our team is looking for in free agency and the draft. Gibbs and Co. have known for a while that Coles would be gone in the near future (L.C. reportedly requested a midseason trade last year, which was denied.) The team has known this would happen all along, just the fans didn't know. Gibbs has been preparing all along for next season without Coles.[/QUOTE]


youre right, the fans didnt know he wanted a trade...which bring up an interesting question...how did you know. YOU MUST NOT BE A FAN!!!! GET UM BOYS!! lol, you have any other inside info that you can give to us

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

oh, and welcome to the site, I dont think I have seen or welcomened you yet.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]youre right, the fans didnt know he wanted a trade...which bring up an interesting question...how did you know. YOU MUST NOT BE A FAN!!!! GET UM BOYS!! lol, you have any other inside info that you can give to us[/QUOTE]

I do remember hearing some grumblings during the season that Coles was unhappy, but I think like anybody I just shrugged it off thinking he was just frustrated like everyone else. Frustrated with the offensive struggles, frustrated with losing, etc.

Who knew how serious this really was?! I guess we just found out!

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I agree. Canuck, what will this do to our immediate cap situation?[/QUOTE]

I posted this previously, here is your answer:

So, the question is what happens next? I'm a financial analyst, so I'll hit you with the salary cap ramifications: Coles signed a 7-year deal with a $13 million bonus, meaning that bonus counts $1.857 million against the cap each year of the deal. He's played out 2 years of the deal, so the unallocated portion of his bonus would amount to 5 year's worth, or $9.286 Million. If he gives back all of that $9.286 Million, his bonus will clear off of the books, and his cap number in 2005 will decrease by $1.857 million. Plus we won't be paying him his base salary of $1.5 million, so that would go to savings, meaning we would save a total of $3.357 million in 2005.

We need to find out how much of his bonus he'll be giving back. The formula to find the effect on our salary cap if we cut him is this:

(9.286 - The Amount He Gives Back) - 3.357

If the number comes up negative, that means our cap goes down. If it comes up positive, it means his current 3.357 cap hit will get bigger.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I am pretty sure that signing bonuses can only be spread out over six year. Your math is for 7. Its 2.16 million per year if it is spread out over six. Im not positive, but im pretty sure.

Thats acutally a good thing becuase it means more of it has already been accounted for.

As far as a post june 1st cut, that pushes most of it onto the 2006 books. Which is going to be a tough year for us salary cap wise. But if he gives back half of his bonus money, as rumored, thats 6.5 million back. That means that 3.25 million will be on the books for 2006, as opposed to 4.3 million if we cut him prior to june first.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Great news to wake up to. Unfreakingbelievable.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[url]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1996404[/url]

an espn article. Talks about how its going to be a mess. We take a 9 millino dollar hit if we trade him, or no hit but no compensation

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Like Offiss I'm scared this is an omen that the offense isn't seen to be evolving. Both of our starting WR's are ASKING for trades. That is NOT a good sign by any means. It probably means we're going to run the same ultra-conservative miserable offense.

I like Coles attitude. He's going about this the right way. I hate to see him go but it's better than having him here if he doesn't want to be. I think a Mason FA pickup, and a guy through the draft is our best course of action. I think Jacobs is ready to step into the limelight - even though Spurrier took a ton of shit for drafting him -- he was the right pick. Blazing fast with great hands. We need to seriously look at McCants. I think we'll want to keep him.

More than anything - this makes me worry about our team. Does Smoot not want to resign because he thinks we won't win? Are our offensive troubles THAT bad? I guess we'll see next season.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Smoot wants cash, if he show him the money he'll be back in a heartbeat.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I'm just saying - it makes you wonder. Has he priced himself out of our range on purpose?

BTW: I'm going to start posting large pictures till I get another avatar! ;)

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

In the ESPN article, it mentions that the Skins might be backing off of their agreement in order to pursue a trade...that doesnt seem possible however due to the huge cap hit which we cannot afford. Does anyone think there is a possibility that they will back off to the extent that they will hold him to his contract?

I'm not big on keeping guys who don't want to be around, but let's face it. Even if we pick up Mason or a Mike Williams in the draft, neither of them will be as solid as LC was. With Gardner's loss added in, our receiver corps becomes even thinner. I really thought next year we would be able to compete, with just a few choice FAs and a solid draft. It seemed like we had most of the pieces in place. This turn of events leaves us with a GAPING hole at WR, and will seriously impede Ramsey's development. LC was his go-to-guy.

Another thing I don't understand is that if Gibbs saw this coming, why did he basically rule out signing a FA WR in his radio show? Not that it will be much of an issue. If LC doesn't want to play in our offense, why would someone like a Derrick Mason or a Muhsin Muhammad want to? Those guys are getting up in years, and probably wouldn't want to end their careers in an offense that makes WRs run away. Plus, we don't have the cap flexibility (from what I understand) to go with our usual routine of outbidding everyone else. I'm definitely not optimistic.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I'm guessing the team just wants to explore all it's options before they release him, I can't see a way they could afford to deal him, the cap hit is just too much to absorb.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

I'm so upset about this and normally I try to look at the more optimistic side of it. I just want to see some good FA and draft pickups and we'll laugh at Gardner and (unfortunately because I loved the guy) Coles all the way to the playoffs. I just hope and pray it won't be one of those "Trotter situations" where each one of those players will have a "career game" when they play the Redskins.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm guessing the team just wants to explore all it's options before they release him, I can't see a way they could afford to deal him, the cap hit is just too much to absorb.[/QUOTE]


If it is at all possible I trade him and do what I have to do to absorb that cap hit this year, if there is a way for us to legitamatly stay within the cap I do it suffer his hit this year and pick up some draft pick's for this or next year, we may have to take a step back this season as far as personel, from what I saw last year you would have a hard time convincing me we will contend for a SB next season, this is where contract's like Lavar's and Brunell's come back to bite us in the a**, we may winde up just getting rid of a player who has significant value.

Choun's, I really like Antonio Brown but as a return specialist, I don't know about assuming he's a WR, there is a reason that a player with his kind of speed came to us via free agency, there is a big difference between having the speed of a WR and being a WR.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Someone said it in another post that there's a REASON he's only a return man. Whether it be a combination of bad hands/work ethic/etc.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=offiss]If it is at all possible I trade him and do what I have to do to absorb that cap hit this year, if there is a way for us to legitamatly stay within the cap I do it suffer his hit this year and pick up some draft pick's for this or next year, we may have to take a step back this season as far as personel, from what I saw last year you would have a hard time convincing me we will contend for a SB next season, this is where contract's like Lavar's and Brunell's come back to bite us in the a**, we may winde up just getting rid of a player who has significant value.

Choun's, I really like Antonio Brown but as a return specialist, I don't know about assuming he's a WR, there is a reason that a player with his kind of speed came to us via free agency, there is a big difference between having the speed of a WR and being a WR.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure how we can afford to take a cap hit of nearly $10M, not matter how much creative cap work you do.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

But if anyone can do it, Danny Boy can do it. He's a genius. Sometimes he's not be favorite person in the world but I can't deny that he's an extremely smart man in the financial sense.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

Sounds to me that Mr. Barnes and Mr. Coles should be careful not to air this out in the media. The Redskins hold all the cards here. They can hold him to his contract and give him limited playing time which would affect his player incentive bonuses. While they might take a cap hit, the bottom line is he has a contract and if he intends on being somewhere else then he should just shut up. They can carry this all the way to and trhu trainning camp. Remember what happened to Keenan last year. So his value could very well be a high draft pick. The Redksins would be doing him a favor by releasing him early and they would expect somthing in value as a return. A #1 or the whole signning bonus is really his only option.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'm not sure how we can afford to take a cap hit of nearly $10M, not matter how much creative cap work you do.[/QUOTE]


I know it would be tough and unrealistic. What would we save if we sent Samuel's packing if that was the difference maker I would do it, Samuel's isn't a major cogg on this team.

Re: Redskins Expected to Release Coles
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I know it would be tough and unrealistic. What would we save if we sent Samuel's packing if that was the difference maker I would do it, Samuel's isn't a major cogg on this team.[/QUOTE]

Why send samuels packing, then you would have 3 major wholes to fill,(2wr, Lt) common doggie!! I think to trade coles they would have to get some of the money back from him to lower his value and make it work.