Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

"Ladies and Gentlemen, the President of the United States of America...."

[IMG]http://www.barackobama.com/news/entry/the-obama-event-registry[/IMG][IMG]https://my.barackobama.com/page/-/Blog%202012/20120612_Event_registry_banner.png[/IMG]



[URL="http://www.barackobama.com/news/entry/the-obama-event-registry"]<vomit>[/URL]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;921806]Two terms and a small pension plan.[/quote]


....why a pension,all American companys are dumping their pensions,if Walls Street is allowed to blow my money....lose theirs too.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/romneys-donors-heard-weekends-retreat-222627875--abc-news-politics.html]What Romney's Donors Heard at This Weekend's Retreat - Yahoo! News[/url]


You'd think that Romney would do everything he could to distance himself from Bush, but what does he do on his retreat for donors? Brings in most of the gang from the Bush era.

/facepalm


Not that it matters, because Obama is pretty much like having Bush as a third term.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;922611]....why a pension,all American companys are dumping their pensions,if Walls Street is allowed to blow my money....lose theirs too.[/quote]
I don't have a problem with a small pension for their service.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922660]I don't have a problem with a small pension for their service.[/quote]Other people must put in 15,20,30 years for a small pension...not for 4,6 or 8.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;922663]Other people must put in 15,20,30 years for a small pension...not for 4,6 or 8.[/quote]

So here your against any pension but you think Walker was wrong to ask the union members to pay 5% of their pension plan.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/255280_388827114505430_123255765_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922665]So here your against any pension but you think Walker was wrong to ask the union members to pay 5% of their pension plan.[/quote]


Nope get bit straight jr, I'm against a congressman getting a pension after 3,5,or 6 years and making what ever someone said it was in the $147,000 range.Not against someone putting in 20,25 or 30 years at a job and getting one.
Again I will say Unions should'nt be attack as the evil of all and the cuase of everyone else's problems during an election year.
So are you against a Policeman ,Fireman or Teacher or Nurses getting a pension,what about Marines...should a service man or women get a pension afetr 20 years ?I say hell yes!!!!! A congressman ...hell no!

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;922825]Nope get bit straight jr, I'm against a congressman getting a pension after 3,5,or 6 years and making what ever someone said it was in the $147,000 range.Not against someone putting in 20,25 or 30 years at a job and getting one.
Again I will say Unions should'nt be attack as the evil of all and the cuase of everyone else's problems during an election year.
So are you against a Policeman ,Fireman or Teacher or Nurses getting a pension,what about Marines...should a service man or women get a pension afetr 20 years ?I say hell yes!!!!! A congressman ...hell no![/quote]

I've never said I was against them getting a pension. Whats happened is that states cannot afford to keep paying 100% of some of these pensions and health insurance cost. I think asking them to pay 5% of their pension plan was not out of line at all. I know lets keep the pensions paid in full by the tax payers and give teachers 90 day paid sick leave a year.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

alright FD, you do know when those contracts were negotiated there was someone from management sitting across the table? im with giantone here. lets earn those pensions, not the 6 or 8 years these politician's are putting in

[QUOTE=dmek25;922837]alright FD, you do know when those contracts were negotiated there was someone from management sitting across the table? im with giantone here. lets earn those pensions, not the 6 or 8 years these politician's are putting in[/QUOTE]

Well, still arguing for term limits, most politicians put in a lot more than 6 years. That's not meant as a positive.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922827] I know lets keep the pensions paid in full by the tax payers and give teachers 90 day paid sick leave a year.[/quote]


So you're against a teacher ...someone people in trust with their children but a Congressman who by profession is a liar..you're ok with?
Teachers don't get 90 days a year sick leave,do you know teachers must be certified every few years...changes from state to state and they must take those class's in the summer and pay for them themselves, each state has different requirments.
My Wife has been teaching kindergarden for 25 years and everytime a new politician comes in when they want to save money they cut "EDUCATION" yet she must pay 1500 per course to remain certified to teach and each board of Ed is different .AND her pension or pay isn't good enough for her to pay 5% of.If you really knew a good teacher you would'nt say stuff like that, 90 days,really??????

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Nope. No lies or distortion going on here.


[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562737_449749328376720_961899921_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=dmek25;922837]alright FD, you do know when those contracts were negotiated[B] there was someone from management sitting across the table?[/B] im with giantone here. lets earn those pensions, not the 6 or 8 years these politician's are putting in[/quote]

First off we are talking state workers and the people sitting accross from them were the democrats they got voted into office.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;922856]So you're against a teacher ...someone people in trust with their children but a Congressman who by profession is a liar..you're ok with?
Teachers don't get 90 days a year sick leave,do you know teachers must be certified every few years...changes from state to state and they must take those class's in the summer and pay for them themselves, each state has different requirments.
My Wife has been teaching kindergarden for 25 years and everytime a new politician comes in when they want to save money they cut "EDUCATION" yet she must pay 1500 per course to remain certified to teach and each board of Ed is different .AND her pension or pay isn't good enough for her to pay 5% of.If you really knew a good teacher you would'nt say stuff like that, 90 days,really??????[/quote]

In Wisconsin they get 90 days sick leave and I never said I was for any congressman. My mother was a teacher for over 40 years and was teacher of the year 2 times in her city and was runner up for teacher of the year for the state of VA (I know what happened to me). My sister is a teacher and my grandmothers both were teachers. So no I'm not against teachers at all. Your also confused and it not 5% of their pay its 5% of the contributions to thier pension. So if the state contributes $500 per month the state employee would have to pay $25.
[url=http://www.oshkosh.k12.wi.us/staff/sick_oea.cfm]Oshkosh Area School District: Sick Leave - OEA[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;922874]Nope. No lies or distortion going on here.


[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562737_449749328376720_961899921_n.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

fox news is amazing. i like when any type of positive news comes out on the economy they shit on it...its really funny. And when the economy was tanking in the Bush year...ie the muther****er who is responsible for this shit...they never said a word....

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

So you guys see a picture with a caption and assume what may or may not have been said. I don't see any links so we can watch or hear what was discussed. So when will this ever be Obama's shit?



[IMG]http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachments/sand-bar/248731d1340142112-motivational-posters-550804_372408732813298_473434533_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922888]So you guys see a picture with a caption and assume what may or may not have been said. I don't see any links so we can watch or hear what was discussed. So when will this ever be Obama's shit?
[/quote]

FD still believing corporate media's drivel. I doubt you will read any of the links and follow up links from the article below but here is what you are asking for. You'll love the part at the bottom of this article where Fox idiot contradicts himself in different episodes. Blames Obama in one newscast, but says he's not to blame in a newscast last year.

[url=http://www.enewspf.com/opinion/analysis/33295-fox-now-asking-is-the-drop-in-gas-prices-a-bad-thing.html]Fox Now Asking: Is The Drop In Gas Prices A Bad Thing?[/url]

[url=http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2012/05/09/24406/fbn-afterthebell-20120508-gasdrop]Video[/url]




Fox News loves harping on gas and continues to end up with egg on their face. Too bad their viewers are too stupid to see the bullshit.
[url=http://mediamatters.org/studios/video/201206060005]Up, Up And Away: Fox's Gas Price Predictions Fall Flat | Media Matters for America[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922888]So you guys see a picture with a caption and assume what may or may not have been said. I don't see any links so we can watch or hear what was discussed. So when will this ever be [B]Obama's shit[/B]?



[IMG]http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachments/sand-bar/248731d1340142112-motivational-posters-550804_372408732813298_473434533_n.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

hey im just stating facts, its obama's mess now and i agree he hasnt done enough to address it. But I dont want to lose sight it was another economic disaster by a Republican WhiteHouse which caused this problem. Thats what you get when there is little regulation and oversight...

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;922891]FD still believing corporate media's drivel. I doubt you will read any of the links and follow up links from the article below but here is what you are asking for. You'll love the part at the bottom of this article where Fox idiot contradicts himself in different episodes. Blames Obama in one newscast, but says he's not to blame in a newscast last year.

[URL="http://www.enewspf.com/opinion/analysis/33295-fox-now-asking-is-the-drop-in-gas-prices-a-bad-thing.html"]Fox Now Asking: Is The Drop In Gas Prices A Bad Thing?[/URL]

[URL="http://mediamatters.org/embed/clips/2012/05/09/24406/fbn-afterthebell-20120508-gasdrop"]Video[/URL]




Fox News loves harping on gas and continues to end up with egg on their face. Too bad their viewers are too stupid to see the bullshit.
[URL="http://mediamatters.org/studios/video/201206060005"]Up, Up And Away: Fox's Gas Price Predictions Fall Flat | Media Matters for America[/URL][/quote]

BTW I don't watch FOX News and I really don't watch much news at all. What that article is doing is taking Bill O'Reilly which is commentary and not news and mixing it with an econmist opinion. They then throw in Sean Hannity which is also commentary and not news. The economist is looking at the drop in gas prices from a totaly different perspective which I'm sure you knew that. FOX does not hide the fact that O'Reilly and Hannity are conservative so what else would you expect for them. You also do know Media Matters is a progressive organization so it not the best source.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;922896]hey im just stating facts, its obama's mess now and i agree he hasnt done enough to address it. But I dont want to lose sight it was another economic disaster by a Republican WhiteHouse which caused this problem. Thats what you get when there is little regulation and oversight...[/quote]

Have you ever seen the thousands of pages of regulations and oversite? This is just from the SEC.

[url=http://www.sec.gov/about/laws/secrulesregs.htm]Rules and Regulations for the Securities and Exchange Commission and Major Securities Laws[/url]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922899]BTW I don't watch FOX News and I really don't watch much news at all. What that article is doing is taking Bill O'Reilly which is commentary and not news and mixing it with an econmist opinion. They then throw in Sean Hannity which is also commentary and not news. The economist is looking at the drop in gas prices from a totaly different perspective which I'm sure you knew that. FOX does not hide the fact that O'Reilly and Hannity are conservative so what else would you expect for them. You also do know Media Matters is a progressive organization so it not the best source.[/quote]

What do I expect from a major news corporation? I expect them to not lie.

Obviously that's too much to ask out of Fox. Maybe they should drop the Fox News name and call it Fox Conservative Talk TV. After all, it's not news.


There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that article from Media Matters. Not the best source? So if a site calls out and provides proof of bullshit claims by a conservative "news" agency, it's then becomes "not the best source". GTFO with that crap.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;922901]What do I expect from a major news corporation? I expect them to not lie.

Obviously that's too much to ask out of Fox. Maybe they should drop the Fox News name and call it Fox Conservative Talk TV. After all, it's not news.


There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that article from Media Matters. Not the best source? So if a site calls out and provides proof of bullshit claims by a conservative "news" agency, it's then becomes "not the best source". GTFO with that crap.[/quote]

It did not provide any proof. It twisted things together that did not do not go together. Would you consider CNN news?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922904]It did not provide any proof. [/quote]


It provided the proof and data you asked for here:


[quote=firstdown;922888]So you guys see a picture with a caption and assume what may or may not have been said. I don't see any links so we can watch or hear what was discussed. So when will this ever be Obama's shit?
[/quote]


Which goes back to the point of THIS:

[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562737_449749328376720_961899921_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;922905]It provided the proof and data you asked for here:





Which goes back to the point of THIS:

[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562737_449749328376720_961899921_n.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

You really cannot comprehend they are talking about two different things at two different points in time.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922917]You really cannot comprehend they are talking about two different things at two different points in time.[/quote]

I find this ironic coming from you. Apparently can't even comprehend what our issue is with Fox News. For somebody who doesn't watch them, you surely are defending them quite a bit.



[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bat-trick/WHOOSH2-1.gif[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;922918]I find this ironic coming from you. Apparently can't even comprehend what our issue is with Fox News. For somebody who doesn't watch them, you surely are defending them quite a bit.



[IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b159/bat-trick/WHOOSH2-1.gif[/IMG][/quote]


If you have an issue with Fox news just don't watch it. Don't pull up some BS thing about gas prices from Media Matters which sole purpose is to attack Fox News. I'm sure there are better examples out there against Fox.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922930]If you have an issue with Fox news just don't watch it. Don't pull up some BS thing about gas prices from Media Matters which sole purpose is to attack Fox News. I'm sure there are better examples out there against Fox.[/quote]

[IMG]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/images/300x/4273466.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Getting back on the subject, if you Obama hatters want to hat on Obama for something, make sure it's something he's actually responsible for and not something he can really control.


Here is a good start.


[URL="http://tinyurl.com/3x3tpeb"]What has Obama done so far?[/URL]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Funny the left beat Bush up and down over gas prices. Now that its Obama its not his problem.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;922874]Nope. No lies or distortion going on here.


[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/562737_449749328376720_961899921_n.jpg[/IMG][/quote]


i honestly dont understand what kind of point youre trying to make with that "Fox News" discrepancy, which you refer to as "lies and distortion". Is it a "having your cake and eating it too" type thing?

But the lies and distortion (aka discrepancy) thing isnt even really a discrepancy at all, because Fox Nation and Fox Business are entirely different networks, both of which are likely making their statements for entirely different reasons. Their purposes are independent of each other.

I honestly dont even think Fox Nation is even a network or channel, but just a website. And its not a journalism reporting site but a blog style conservative targeted news/opinion/commentary site. Obviously the headline “Gas Prices Up 83% Under Obama” is going to be for that audience.

Fox Business is more of an actual news network but just like CNBC, Fox Business focuses on equity markets and economic situations with analysis and opinions. Politics are really only discussed in terms of their perceived effects on markets, and often with caution or sensitivity. Usually business networks purely focus on "business" from early morning until 4pm (when most US markets close), followed by market recap and economic punditisy (my word). Political opinion may drift into shows later in the evening.

You also have to know conventional wisdom formed around current economic events. I suspect the reason Fox Business proclaims “Cheap Gas Isnt Good” is because it implies that the demand for it is falling, which serves as an indicator that our economy is hurting.

Commodities are tricky to value because their intrinsic value is hard to define and much (or all) of their total value is purely speculative or market driven. But lets pretend the price of gas is 4 bucks; $3 of which is its base value, and $1 being global economic demand. If our economy isn’t healthy or things in Europe are bad (or both!) and the demand aspect for gas drops by a dollar, than cheap gas at $3 “isn’t good”.

If the “base value” fell independently of the global economic demand that would be good, and may imply additional supply, a stronger dollar, lower production costs or a host of other things. So while high gas prices are usually bad, whats even worse is when gas prices are low because no one needs to drive to work.

Either way these are different statements made by different media outlets for different purposes and likely in very different context.

I personally find it interesting that gas prices have increased 88% since Obama took office while the global economy has been subdued. I believe the major increase in gas prices under Bush came from the HAVOC (VCU Baby!!!) Katrina had on the oil supply and felt temporary. I cant say that about current prices…..

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922884]In Wisconsin they get 90 days sick leave and I never said I was for any congressman. My mother was a teacher for over 40 years and was teacher of the year 2 times in her city and was runner up for teacher of the year for the state of VA (I know what happened to me). My sister is a teacher and my grandmothers both were teachers. So no I'm not against teachers at all. Your also confused and it not 5% of their pay its 5% of the contributions to thier pension. So if the state contributes $500 per month the state employee would have to pay $25.
[URL="http://www.oshkosh.k12.wi.us/staff/sick_oea.cfm"]Oshkosh Area School District: Sick Leave - OEA[/URL][/quote]

Did you read the link you posted,they can only carry (accumlate) 90 days ,they only pick up 10 days a year or 1 day a month for every month they work.My point is every school distric is different.I realize what it is you said ,yet in every single case first it's 5 then 10 and then 25 isn't that much to ask, no .As someone else said they just were'nt born with this these benifits were "bargin for" by representitives from either a town state or some goverment offical....now we have a new govermor so no it's all gone.....let me ask you this.....do we not get mad when a player is under contract but sits out for more money?Owners can't just change when ever they want ....this is the same thing.
FD from what you have posted I'm sure your Mom and grandmother sister...all of them love kids but should that be held against them becuase it's the profesion they chose?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;922936]Funny the left beat Bush up and down over gas prices. Now that its Obama its not his problem.[/quote]

no, gas is his problem. Big oil is everyone problem actually. They got this country by the balls, everyone from the politicians in DC, to the everyday man who depends on their returns, propping up their 401ks.

This country is swimming in energy, but only a few know it and less control it. Ignorance is in this country could be our biggest export. If only people took time to look.

The next economic boom could be in energy development, if only some allowed it.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;922954]no, gas is his problem. Big oil is everyone problem actually. They got this country by the balls, everyone from the politicians in DC, to the everyday man who depends on their returns, propping up their 401ks.

This country is swimming in energy, but only a few know it and less control it. Ignorance is in this country could be our biggest export. If only people took time to look.

The next economic boom could be in energy development, if only some allowed it.[/quote]

Agreed,if I had any money I'd build a refinery.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;922954]no, gas is his problem. Big oil is everyone problem actually. They got this country by the balls, everyone from the politicians in DC, to the[B] everyday man who depends on their returns, propping up their 401ks[/B].

This country is swimming in energy, but only a few know it and less control it. Ignorance is in this country could be our biggest export. If only people took time to look.

The next economic boom could be in energy development, if only some allowed it.[/quote]

Good point. Business oriented channels like CNBC and Fox Business often say things in the context of how it may affect your portfolio. So they may be saying Cheap Gas Isnt Good in terms of your short term portfolio returns.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;922956]Agreed,if I had any money I'd build a refinery.[/quote]

Just make sure you build your refinery in a Right to Work State. Energy prices are high and volatile enough, we dont need the excessive pensions and striking forced organized labor causes to make things worse.....

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;922946]i honestly dont understand what kind of point youre trying to make with that "Fox News" discrepancy, which you refer to as "lies and distortion". Is it a "having your cake and eating it too" type thing? [/quote]

I think it's quite obvious to understand the point that was made in that picture.

Gas prices rise: It's Obama's fault

Gas prices lower: Obama has nothing to do with this

Any third grader can grasp what they are tying to do which leads back to the lies and distortion comment.






[quote=mlmpetert;922946]But the lies and distortion (aka discrepancy) thing isnt even really a discrepancy at all, because Fox Nation and Fox Business are entirely different networks, both of which are likely making their statements for entirely different reasons. Their purposes are independent of each other.

I honestly dont even think Fox Nation is even a network or channel, but just a website. And its not a journalism reporting site but a blog style conservative targeted news/opinion/commentary site. Obviously the headline “Gas Prices Up 83% Under Obama” is going to be for that audience. [/quote]


You keep telling yourself they have nothing to do with each other and they are "independent" of each other.

[IMG]http://pages.suddenlink.net/nazgull/FoxNews.JPG[/IMG]

Go to Fox News and you'll get all those "independent of each other" entities you speak of at the top of their page. That's not independent bro. They serve ONE purpose. Propagation.

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/fox-news-viewers-less-informed-people-fairleigh-dickinson_n_1106305.html]Fox News Viewers Know Less Than People Who Don't Watch Any News: Study[/url]

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/17/fox-news-viewers-are-the-_n_798146.html]Fox News Viewers Are The Most Misinformed: Study[/url]


[quote]However, while consumers of just about every news outlet believed some information that was false, the study found that Fox News viewers, regardless of political information, were "significantly more likely" to believe that:[/quote]



Gee. I'm totally shocked by this. /end sarcasm




[quote=mlmpetert;922946]You also have to know conventional wisdom formed around current economic events. I suspect the reason Fox Business proclaims “Cheap Gas Isnt Good” is because it implies that the demand for it is falling, which serves as an indicator that our economy is hurting. [/quote]

Sure. That's fine, but don't say out the side of your mouth that cheap prices aren't good, but scream "ITS OBAMAS FAULT" when the prices are high. I understand the economics of oil and impacts of other economies affecting this. Not only that, I showed you evidence where the same guy blames obama for gas prices, yet somehow managed to defend him the previous year saying the president has nothing to do with it.





[quote=mlmpetert;922946]I personally find it interesting that gas prices have increased 88% since Obama took office while the global economy has been subdued. I believe the major increase in gas prices under Bush came from the HAVOC (VCU Baby!!!) Katrina had on the oil supply and felt temporary. I cant say that about current prices…..[/quote]

Then chances are you are probably a Fox viewer. One of the major reasons was the conflict(s) in the middle east. That immediately caused the prices in oil to spike. That happens when your President lies to his people about evidence for going to war and causes prices to skyrocket. Hey, had to get those oil stocks up for the good ole boys!! (and haliburton)


[url=http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm]History and Analysis -Crude Oil Prices[/url]


[url=http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2109474,00.html]Despite GOP Claims, High Gas Prices Are Not Obama's Fault - TIME[/url]

Time to get educated my man.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://huff.to/LiWDeU]Supreme Court Rules On Affordable Care Act (LIVE UPDATES)[/url]

How in the hell can anybody in their right mind take this guy seriously?


[quote]Romney: I Will Act To Repeal Obamacare

Mitt Romney weighed in on the Supreme Court ruling, saying he agreed with the four dissenting justices who ruled that the entire health care law should be tossed.

"What the court did not do on its last day in session, I will do on my first day if elected president of the United States, and that is I will act to repeal Obamacare," he said.

"Let's make sure we understand what the court did and did not do. What the court did today was say that Obamacare does not violate the constitution. What they did not do was say that Obamacare is good law or good policy. Obamacare was bad policy yesterday, it's bad policy today. Obamacare was bad law yesterday, it's bad law today."
[/quote]


NEWSFLASH: IT IS YOUR HEALTHCARE YOU DUMBASS!!!!

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=mlmpetert;922976]Just make sure you build your refinery in a Right to Work State. Energy prices are high and volatile enough, we dont need the excessive pensions and striking forced organized labor causes to make things worse.....[/quote]


BS......what we need is more people to join Unions and create a better more productive and more prosperous middle class.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;923090]BS......what we need is more people to join Unions and create a better more productive and more prosperous middle class.[/quote]

:lol: