Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;916407][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Very well said. I took out the first part though because its not really state sponsored benefits, at least in my research and opinion.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I tried a while back to see why government, and in particular the federal government, became involved in marriage in the first place. As best as I can tell it deals with basic record keeping by individual states followed by federal law for property/ownership rights relating to women (back when women didn’t have many rights) and for federal taxation of income and property. And finally for welfare entitlements starting in the 30’s. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Im nearly certain initial “dependency” type elections (your spouse is on your employer’s healthcare plan) all initially originated by goodwill from private corporations, much like how some corporations are starting to offer dependency rights for gay couples now-a-days. However, at some point initial goodwill morphed into public policy and became enforceable via federal law. [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]So now you have certain “rights” but more appropriately these things should be called certain laws/restrictions and penalties governing traditional marriage.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]So to me the issue isn’t that gay people cant get married to the person they love, its that in order to be subjected to certain rights/laws/restrictions/penalties we have to get married. But on top of that marriage is defined in a way to specifically exclude certain people/groups.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Ive mentioned here before that I think gays being denied the ability to have marriage laws imposed on their relationships is the biggest civil rights issue of our day. However, I think im changing my opinion. We should all have the right to elect “Traditional Marriage” laws be imposed on any type of relationship we are involved in with another competent adult(s). We should also be free to not elect those “rights”[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Skinsguy you are so right in the unfairness couples face who choose not to wed which deny them from certain rules imposed on their relationship. Everyone should be able to elect the same set of rules for their relationship. It should be without restriction but otherwise left as it is now; as a purely contractual legal matter.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]
The only issue with all this is that the certain rights/laws/restrictions/penalties all need to be modified. They were created for a specific set of principals and if those principles change you need to change these certain rights/laws/restrictions/penalties.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

Good point! And good research! I'm all for that!

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=hooskins;916561]But the way "traditional" marriage and unions are viewed there has to be clear legislation or ammendment (or a mandate) for same sex couples to officially declare their partnership and receive the same benefits hetro couples can.

Those two factors matter quite a bit to heterosexuals county couples so why wouldn't they for homosexuals? The fact that it's gotten politicized is a by product of democracy and a lack of education. If this weren't a political issue, it would have already been legal and we wouldn't be talking about it.

And to be clear, I'm talking about the same sex "debate" at a high level not just North Carolina.[/quote]

Are you disagreeing with me...because if you are MAY MODS HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!!!!!

No but seriously, I couldn't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with my post, or neither

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

I wonder how big of a deal this would be if there was no money involved? This probably another good example of what happens when the federal gov get to involved in our lives and hands out money to some based on certain status.

BTW This law does not stop gays from getting married its just that the state does not recognize the marriage. See above. Its about the money.

[QUOTE=firstdown;916615]I wonder how big of a deal this would be if there was no money involved? This probably another good example of what happens when the federal gov get to involved in our lives and hands out money to some based on certain status.

BTW This law does not stop gays from getting married its just that the state does not recognize the marriage. See above. Its about the money.[/QUOTE]

Your first paragraph is a valid argument. If those incentives are not there it becomes a question of what is right and wrong.

If heterosexual couples' marriages are recognized by the state why can't same-sex couples' if everyone is equal? To me, having certain marriages recognized, based on identity, sexuality, etc., while others aren't is a form of discrimination.

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;916581]Are you disagreeing with me...because if you are MAY MODS HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!!!!!

No but seriously, I couldn't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing with my post, or neither[/QUOTE]

I agree with your post. Perhaps my reply was better suited for Mattyk's post.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=saden1;916495]You should reconsider and reevaluate your thoughts.[/quote]

Couldnt agree (in principle) more. I am always open to persuasion. I like to think my thoughts are dynamic and evolving ([URL="http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/05/09/timeline-barack-obamas-evolving-position-on-gay-marriage/"]just like Obama's![/URL]).

[quote]What part of what I said offends basic logic?[/quote]

I think this is rhetorical, but i think its a good time to point out that there is nothing that offends basic logic more so than tax law. Nothing.

[quote]Is it the fact that people who are single pay more in taxes than married people? You know, the tax law that requires two unmarried people to file separately and thus forfeit certain tax benefits afforded to married couples? [/quote]

But that’s not really true. Sure the Bush tax cuts eliminated a lot of the Marriage Penalty, but a lot of it has come back and a lot of the penalty never went away, espicially for the higher and lower income earners .

Honestly it changes from year to year as to who benefits most from marriage; you or the government. Currently I would say the government would be worse off (less revenues) if everyone was able to file as single (singles pay less), all else equal.

The tax benefits afforded to married peoples doesn’t really have anything to do with income filing, its the ability to re-title things tax free. You cant give your gf all your money without creating a taxable event, but you can give your wife everything tax free. Also upon your death certain benefits exist for IRA elections and of course all assets can be passed to your wife to avoid the estate tax during her remaining lifetime.

[quote]Or is it the part where having less people means less spending on infrastructure, entitlement and various other general welfare such as student loans and educational grants?[/quote]

I thought you were a liberal? Are you implying theres a negative return on the government creating these programs for people? Elizabeth Warren would be pissed if she heard you!

[quote]Here's is a simple brain exercise that can help you sort out your thoughts. [QUOTE]

Kind of like Brain Age? I SUCK at that game!!!

[QUOTE]Ask yourself what would happen to this country's revenues and expenditures if:

a) You eliminate tax breaks for married couples.
b) You kill off 2.5% of all those over the age 65 and increase the infant mortality rate to 2.5%. Or if you wish just kill off 5% of the population.[/quote]

a) If we eliminate the “tax breaks” are we also going to eliminate the marriage penalties? If both are eliminated then I think well see a net decrease in revenues.

b) Youre just plain wild!

You never said anything before about killing off just the most unable persons. I wont answer that, but if I was able to “just kill off 5% of the population”, which was representative of both the most able and productive persons and those infirm, I think we would be worse off. Maybe im just a glass half full type dude.

You saying all these things makes me curious where you stand on illegal immigration? Are you for DREAM act?

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=hooskins;916654]Your first paragraph is a valid argument. If those incentives are not there it becomes a question of what is right and wrong.

If heterosexual couples' marriages are recognized by the state why can't same-sex couples' if everyone is equal? To me, having certain marriages recognized, based on identity, sexuality, etc., while others aren't is a form of discrimination.[/quote]

I agree with First's first point too.

I wonder if we see a Civil Rights Bill type thing at some point if it will cause states to just not recognize marriage, samesex or traditional, at all. Or if without a Civil Rights style bill we will see the Fed govt just back out of marriage completely? Whats sad is that if these types of things happen people will blame the gays for ruining it for everyone.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;916550]I was being a smart ass when I said that I guessed I just paid better attention than others in class. My degree is a B.S. in industrial tech: (electronics)...with minor in business. My focus was more into networking...aka cisco routers and switches. I have to say, my funnest moment was making a clock out of LEDs, capacitors, and a circuit board.


If you look at the numbers on the education level and look at the way the voting went, it would show you everything you need to know.

I used to be one those people. I believed that being gay was a choice. I believed homosexuality was wrong. I believe it was against nature. Twenty one years ago and I would have voted for this amendment. Life change the moment I started broadening my mind. I attribute a great deal of my growth to a simple philosophy class.[/quote]

I just hate it when people imply that those who dont go to college are without sophistication or that those do who go are somehow better. It really grinds my gears.

Wait are you saying 21 years ago you used to be ignorant with regards to homosexuals??? How old are you? I always thought your were a slightly radical 20-25 year old that eventually was gonna grow out of it.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;916665]I just hate it when people imply that those who dont go to college are without sophistication or that those do who go are somehow better. It really grinds my gears.[/quote]

NO degrees don't make you smart, nor do they make you dumb. However, there are very few people that go out of their way to learn, grow, and broaden their horizons outside of college(hell, they don't even do it at college at times). If college degrees weren't a good way to judge ones ability or intelligence, why do many jobs require some sort of formal degree? I know of just a couple of people that are insanely smart and knowledgeable in many areas and they have no formal degrees. They are more libertarian than anything.

[quote=mlmpetert;916665]Wait are you saying 21 years ago you used to be ignorant with regards to homosexuals??? How old are you? I always thought your were a slightly radical 20-25 year old that eventually was gonna grow out of it.[/quote]


Yes, I was. I'm 39 and I hate to break it to you, but there is no growing out of my "slightly radical" movement. I'm just bidding my time, sitting here sharping my pitchfork and getting the torches ready for the day we take the country back from corporate America. ;)

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/552911_10150879771342365_514677364_9631085_825073963_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;916670][IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/552911_10150879771342365_514677364_9631085_825073963_n.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Boo FING hoo. Nothing worse then a bunch of people sitting around wanting people to feel sorry for them. Get a life and stop waiting around for others to make you happy.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;916665]I just hate it when people imply that those who dont go to college are without sophistication or that those do who go are somehow better. It really grinds my gears.

Wait are you saying 21 years ago you used to be ignorant with regards to homosexuals??? How old are you? I always thought your were a slightly radical 20-25 year old that eventually was gonna grow out of it.[/quote]

I didn't go to college and I have no sophistication but I do make good coin.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;916665]I just hate it when people imply that those who dont go to college are without sophistication or that those do who go are somehow better. [/quote]

It's just another form of stereotyping or bigotry, mlmpetert. I dropped out of school but I'm a MCSE, a member of MENSA ([I]that should horrify a lot of people on here [/I][[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1][I]The UK, not the US version that has lower standards[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]]) and I am in a field of work that is supposedly populated by big brain types.

I'm continually appalled by college graduates who have credentials and no common sense, no social graces and a fundamental lack of rational thought process.

Anyway:

[URL="http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/may/09/marriage-myth/"]NY Review of Books[/URL]

[I]“Neither the external nor the internal evidence for a symbolic reference to matrimony is strong. The wedding is only the backdrop and occasion for the story, and the joining of the man and woman does not have any direct role in the narrative."[/I]

And in my opinion anyone who bases their life on the supernatural is likely to have impaired judgment.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=RedskinRat;916675]It's just another form of stereotyping or bigotry, mlmpetert. I dropped out of school but I'm a MCSE, a member of MENSA ([I]that should horrify a lot of people on here [/I][[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1][I]The UK, not the US version that has lower standards[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]]) and I am in a field of work that is supposedly populated by big brain types.

I'm continually appalled by college graduates who have credentials and no common sense, no social graces and a fundamental lack of rational thought process.

Anyway:

[URL="http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2012/may/09/marriage-myth/"]NY Review of Books[/URL]

[I]“Neither the external nor the internal evidence for a symbolic reference to matrimony is strong. The wedding is only the backdrop and occasion for the story, and the joining of the man and woman does not have any direct role in the narrative."[/I]

And in my opinion anyone who bases their life on the supernatural is likely to have impaired judgment.[/quote]

You know. I agreed with everything you had just posted until the last sentence. Although, it is your opinion and I respect your opinion, but in my opinion, it screams of insecurity.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=skinsguy;916688]...... but in my opinion, it screams of insecurity.[/quote]

Interesting. In what way?

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/542192_10100591068770463_22225832_48968449_1213328408_n.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;916715][IMG]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/542192_10100591068770463_22225832_48968449_1213328408_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

This

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=RedskinRat;916689]Interesting. In what way?[/quote]

I think you're smart enough to figure it out, so I'm going to take the bait.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=skinsguy;916953]I think you're smart enough to figure it out, so I'm going to take the bait.[/quote]

Please explain to me how my statement '[I]anyone who bases their life on the supernatural is likely to have impaired judgment' [/I]screams anything, let alone insecurity?That wasn't bait, it was a statement of clarity so no one was in any confusion as to where I stand.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=RedskinRat;916965]Please explain to me how my statement '[I]anyone who bases their life on the supernatural is likely to have impaired judgment' [/I]screams anything, let alone insecurity?That wasn't bait, it was a statement of clarity so no one was in any confusion as to where I stand.[/quote]

Nope, not going to get into a pissing match with you.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=skinsguy;916971]Nope, not going to get into a pissing match with you.[/quote]

It wouldn't be a pissing match, merely an exchange of ideas or points of view but I accept your retraction.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=RedskinRat;916988]It wouldn't be a pissing match, merely an exchange of ideas or points of view but I accept your retraction.[/quote]

Somehow, I just don't see it being a mere exchange of ideas or points of view, because you have already painted yourself as a judgmental person who feels those who think differently than you are mentally handicapped. I don't trust someone who throws out that type of preemptive strike and then on the other hand wishes to 'merely exchange ideas and points of view.' You already set the stage to have anyone who wishes to 'exchange ideas' with you being on the defensive, and I'm not going to subject myself to that.

Anyway, this is not what this thread was supposed to be about. It was about the Marriage Amendment being passed in N.C. Feel free to go back a few pages and read my stance on the subject.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=skinsguy;916999]Somehow, I just don't see it being a mere exchange of ideas or points of view, because you have already painted yourself as a judgmental person who feels those who think differently than you are mentally handicapped.[/quote]

Impaired judgement is being mentally handicapped? Poor choice of words.

[quote=skinsguy;916999] I don't trust someone who throws out that type of preemptive strike and then on the other hand wishes to 'merely exchange ideas and points of view.' You already set the stage to have anyone who wishes to 'exchange ideas' with you being on the defensive, and I'm not going to subject myself to that.[/quote]

If your position is untenable then I understand you being loath to attempt to defend it.

[quote=skinsguy;916999]Anyway, this is not what this thread was supposed to be about. It was about the Marriage Amendment being passed in N.C. Feel free to go back a few pages and read my stance on the subject.[/quote]

If you think that the Marriage Amendment and religion are separate issues in the debate I see why you won't discuss it.

Fair enough, I thank you for your comments. We'll leave it there.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[url=http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/14/482200/lankford-fired-gay/?mobile=nc]GOP Rep. Lankford Explains Why It Should Be Legal To Fire Someone For Being Gay: 'It's A Choice Issue' | ThinkProgress[/url]


Why does it seem all the conservative + religious people are stupid as hell?


It's amazing how many people think that homosexuality is a choice.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

Let's not start generalizing

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

For the people who do not understand the opposition to gay marriage are you not religious at all, atheist, or what? I'm neither but I understand the opposition.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=SmootSmack;917140]Let's not start generalizing[/quote]

I made the clear distinction of "why does it seem", and not a "why are all".

No generalizing was done here.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;917147]For the people who do not understand the opposition to gay marriage are you not religious at all, atheist, or what? I'm neither but I understand the opposition.[/quote]

The problem here is that this amendment or any of the legislation being passed isn't asking if you agree with homosexuality. It's asking if you agree to give them equal rights. That's the problem here. By voting against it, it doesn't mean you are in favor of homosexuality.

If you were to ask most of the people voting for it, they were probably voting for it for the wrong reason and were "proving their morality" by denying gays rights. This is where I think ignorance plays a part. It's learning to find out what the real issue here is, and what am I really voting for and does that in some way change my morality. Most people went into it thinking "I do not believe in homosexuality, so therefore I'm voting in favor of anything against homosexuality, regardless of what harm it causes." Instead of saying......."I'm voting against anything that would restrict the rights of a fellow human being even though I do not agree with homosexuality."


According to the Bible, we should stone gay people. People of different religions should not marrying. Divorce is not a option.

So how about those beliefs? You want me to believe that they are voting because of their religious beliefs, yet they choose to ignore those other requirements set forth by their own religion. This isn't about their beliefs, it's about using their beliefs as a means to hate and discriminate against.

God is against pornography. (porn is one of biggest business on internet) This value is ignored.
God is against divorce. ....yet divorce rate is well above 50%. This value is ignored.
God is against crime. Crime rates are high. This value is ignored.
God is against destroying your body. (obesity rates sky high, smokers, drinkers) This value is ignored.

God is against gays. OMG WE MUST HOLD TRUE TO OUR VIRTUES AND MORALITY.


Yeah guys, we aren't really going to hold to our morality ground unless it involves gay people!! THEN we'll make a stand!!

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917134][url=http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/05/14/482200/lankford-fired-gay/?mobile=nc]GOP Rep. Lankford Explains Why It Should Be Legal To Fire Someone For Being Gay: 'It's A Choice Issue' | ThinkProgress[/url]


Why does it seem all the conservative + religious people are stupid as hell?


It's amazing how many people think that homosexuality is a choice.[/quote]

You have no room to talk after that comment.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[url=http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2012/may/15/12/house-of-delegates-rejects-thorne-begland-for-judg-ar-1914948/]House rejects Thorne-Begland for judgeship as social conservatives prevail | Richmond Times-Dispatch[/url]

House of Delegates embarrassing again.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;917147]For the people who do not understand the opposition to gay marriage are you not religious at all, atheist, or what? I'm neither but I understand the opposition.[/quote]

Was that directed at me?

For clarity, I'm opposed to any and all religions. Not exactly an Atheist, more anti-theist.

If you're neither religious nor Atheist are you an Agnostic? That always seems to be a bizarre position.

More clarity: Marriages are formal union within a religion between a man and a woman, recognized by law. This means to me that religion and religious groups have the right to say no to gay marriage. This also means that anyone should see that there is an inherent flaw (but this is just one of many) in religion.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=RedskinRat;917167]Was that directed at me?

For clarity, I'm opposed to any and all religions. Not exactly an Atheist, more anti-theist.

If you're neither religious nor Atheist are you an Agnostic? That always seems to be a bizarre position.

More clarity: Marriages are formal union within a religion between a man and a woman, recognized by law. This means to me that religion and religious groups have the right to say no to gay marriage. [B]This also means that anyone should see that there is an inherent flaw (but this is just one of many) in religion.[/quote][/B]

It was not directed at anyone I was just curious. One of the main reason marriage was originally formed was for procreation. Last time I checked two women nor two men can have children on their own so I'm not sure thats a flaw.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=skinsguy;917165]You have no room to talk after that comment.[/quote]

How so? Or did you put words/meaning into my statement that isn't there. I'll break this down for you on the key words in that sentence so there is no confusion.

[B][U]Why does it seem[/U][/B]

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;917176]One of the main reason marriage was originally formed was for procreation. Last time I checked two women nor two men can have children on their own so I'm not sure thats a flaw.[/quote]

You don't need to be married to procreate, so that's clearly not true.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat;917181]You don't need to be married to procreate, so that's clearly not true.[/QUOTE

We do see that and with the tearing down of the family clearly we see the results of single parent families on society and children today.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917149]I made the clear distinction of "why does it seem", and not a "why are all".

No generalizing was done here.[/quote]


Smootsmack probably never went to college, youll have to forgive him.....



Come on man! You cant just remove the most important adjective of the sentance in trying to make your point. Its:

"why does it seem all" vs "why are all"

Both are generalizations.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=RedskinRat;916675]

I'm continually appalled by college graduates who have credentials and no common sense, no social graces and a fundamental lack of rational thought process.

[/quote]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgUq_Wdc898]"Well Educated" Crazy Woman On Metro North Train With Subtitles [High Quality] - YouTube[/ame]

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;917208][QUOTE=RedskinRat;917181]You don't need to be married to procreate, so that's clearly not true.[/quote]

We do see that and with the tearing down of the family clearly we see the results of single parent families on society and children today.[/QUOTE]
That's just bad parenting, not a lack of religion.

We, as a race, have tried 'more' religion. It didn't work.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;917213][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgUq_Wdc898"]"Well Educated" Crazy Woman On Metro North Train With Subtitles [High Quality] - YouTube[/URL][/quote]

I heard that was SS in drag, no evidence to refute it so far.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;917152]The problem here is that this amendment or any of the legislation being passed isn't asking if you agree with homosexuality. It's asking if you agree to give them equal rights. That's the problem here. By voting against it, it doesn't mean you are in favor of homosexuality.[/quote]

Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin. Voting against the Marriage Amendment would mean allowing the government to change the definition of marriage, and in turn, would mean that the Christian is agreeing to validating something that they believe is a sin; which in turn, that validation would be a sin within itself. It has nothing to do with Christians wanting to deny anybody rights.

[quote=NC_Skins;917152]
If you were to ask most of the people voting for it, they were voting for it for the wrong reason and were "proving their morality" by denying gays rights. This is where I think ignorance plays a part. It's learning to find out what the real issue here is, and what am I really voting for and does that in some way change my morality. Most people went into it thinking "I do not believe in homosexuality, so therefore I'm voting in favor of anything against homosexuality, regardless of what harm it causes." Instead of saying......."I'm voting against anything that would restrict the rights of a fellow human being even though I do not agree with homosexuality."[/quote]

Really? How did you come to the conclusion that MOST people who voted for the amendment stated your above mentioned reason? Do you have a list of all names that voted in favor of the amendment and a quote from each and every person?


[quote=NC_Skins;917152]According to the Bible, we should stone gay people. People of different religions should not marrying. Divorce is not a option.[/quote]

You're obviously not a bible scholar. According to the Old Testament, under the Mosaic Law, it was called upon by God that ALL sin be punished by death. This isn't limited to homosexuality, but murder, adultery, robbery, rape, etc...we are no longer under THAT law according to the bible. Because Jesus Christ died on the cross for all sin, for all people, He bought salvation for humanity, so that all who come to Christ with a repentance heart has all sin forgiven. The bible also goes on to state that God was still a merciful God in those days after he spared King David's life when David committed sin. I don't remember you mentioning anything like that.

Secondly, the bible does state people from different religions should not marry because of being unequally yoked. I can tell you, for first hand experience, there are plenty of issues with that. Religion isn't just something people believe, it's a way of life, so having two people who are deeply rooted in their different faiths marry can be quite confusing to future children. Certainly you're not going to understand the importance, because you general seem to have a dislike for those of faith. I'm also not quite sure what this has to do with the thread anyway. And moreover, the divorce. If God puts two people together, let no one else separate. So, God hates divorce amongst His followers. The bible does state that divorce is permitted for reasons of adultery. So, if two people that God puts together divorce, that divorce is sin.


[quote=NC_Skins;917152]So how about those beliefs? You want me to believe that they are voting because of their religious beliefs, yet they choose to ignore those other requirements set forth by their own religion. This isn't about their beliefs, it's about using their beliefs as a means to hate and discriminate against

God is against pornography. (porn is one of biggest business on internet) This value is ignored.
God is against divorce. ....yet divorce rate is well above 50%. This value is ignored.
God is against crime. Crime rates are high. This value is ignored.
God is against destroying your body. (obesity rates sky high, smokers, drinkers) This value is ignored.

God is against gays. OMG WE MUST HOLD TRUE TO OUR VIRTUES AND MORALITY.


Yeah guys, we aren't really going to hold to our morality ground unless it involves gay people!! THEN we'll make a stand!![/quote]

Again, I want to know how many of those who voted in favor of the Marriage Amendment are divorcees, hooked on pornography, commits crime, and are heavy smokers, drinkers, and obese. Give me names, addresses, numbers, and your proof to back up what you claim. Otherwise, you're just spreading hate yourself. You haven't shown yourself to be any better a person than those you convict. I have no doubt there were some very ignorant people who voted for the amendment because of very ignorant reasons, but to sit there and say most people who voted for it does because of A, B, or C is ignorant in itself, because you don't know the reasoning that every person who voted for this thing had went through prior to voting day. You don't know their lives, you don't know their education, you don't know a thing about any of them, so don't sit there and be so smug in assuming you know people's reasoning as it pertains to this. It's all very opinionated assumptions, none of which were based on any facts at all.

Are there any ignorant people out there who use their Christian faith for the wrong things? Sure there are! Just like there are ignorant atheists, ignorant Catholics, ignorant Muslims, ignorant Agnostics, etc.... nobody is perfect! But to put each and every religious person under the same label of hate shows as much, if not more ignorance and hate on your behave. You, my friend, fall under the same label of intolerance as those who you convict. However, even despite all of that, I would still give my life to save yours and your family if it was called for me to do so. I have a general love for all people, even those that are quite tough to show a hand of fellowship to. The biggest thing you need to understand is Christianity is not defined by those small hate groups such as the Westboro Baptist Church for instance. Just like I'm sure you'd be object at the thought that all atheists are Satan worshipers who kill little children and animals. The smallest and most radical groups are usually the ones with the loudest voice. Just remember that the next time you decide to through out your hate to others.