Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

He needs to stop whining...then again it could be that NFL refs are dog lovers out for vengeance.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=12thMan;839755]I don't really have any strong opinions about whether Vick deserves more flags or if there's a racial component to it all, but Mick Vick is hardly soft. You might not like him, but soft? Get the f@ck outta here. He's probably one of the toughest, although not necessarily durable, players in the NFL. The guy gets knocked around like a ping pong ball and keeps on trucking.

As far as the hit in the Giants game, it was close but definitely helmet to helmet. Bottom line, had that been Tom Brady or Peyton Manning flags would have been all over the place.[/quote]Tough guys don't whine about getting hit. FBs and LBs are tough. McNabb throughout his career has been tough, Mark Brunell taking 57 sacks in a season w/Jax is tough, Archie Manning behind those awful Saints lines in the 70s without the QB rules today was tough, hell Jason Campbell is tough....but anyway this tunes been sung before by Vick/Reid.

[URL="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/03/andy-reid-bothered-by-hits-on-michael-vick/"]Andy Reid bothered by hits on Michael Vick | ProFootballTalk[/URL]

Par for the course with Vick, things get tough, it's somebody else's fault:

[URL="http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/12/14/vick.letters/index.html"]Michael Vick to judge: 'I am not the beast' - CNN.com[/URL]

"I'm very humble and caring...." Last I checked folks that are really humble don't go around saying, "I'm very humble".

"I've accepted responsibility for my actions...", but yet its the area he grew up in, or people around him that made him fund and actively participate in his dogfighting exploits.

"I apologize for my failed drug test...", my Daddy made me sad, so I smoked.....Come on man.

"Throughout this entire case, I've just tried to be honest..." Really???? Translation, I had to be honest because there were sworn affidavits and mountains of evidence against me, the Suffolk prosecutor was neutralized by the Feds, and I didn't want to get nailed with Federal perjury charges on top of everything else.

Vick is an incredibly gifted athlete, but has been coddled his whole life because of it. He thinks he's entitled to money, fame, winning games. Instead of being tough and a good leader and doing what he can (more film study to get rid of the ball faster, throw the ball away and not try to make every play with his feet, understand the OL calls/protections better) to correct the issues with his teammates/coaches he whines about the refs in a presser. Sorry, that ain't tough.

What he should've done was STFU, do what I mention above, and let Reid whine to the media.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

Whine to the refs, don't do it in a press conference

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

SS33, you're weaving the dog fighting charge into this argument which I have no interest in discussing. However, we could very easily go down the pecking order of star athletes across the sports world and I guarantee you there's a clip or quote somewhere of them being frustrated following a loss to a divisional foe. I don't think Mick Vick is anymore of whiner in this particular nstance than say, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Ledainian Tomlinson, or Michael Jordan for that matter. All star athletes have allowed the heat of the moment to get the best of them after a tough loss.

The difference here is Vick didn't call this presser. Had he initiated a Mike Vick Monday presser, stood in front of the cameras with the express purpose to rip the refs, then I'd say yeah this guy is being a little soft. But he didn't. His hand was banged up, his team just got their asses handed to them, and he was live 20 minutes later. What was he supposed to say, oh yeah, it's all good.

The title of the thread seems a little disingenuous because it singles out Mike Vick as soft or whiny and I don't feel he has a history of whining about being hit late or when things on the gridiron don't go his way.

My final point is, who in the hell are you ---or any of us-- to say Michael Vick has been coddled all of his life? We don't know shit about what Mike Vick went through to get to where he is. Do you know how hard it is to even make it on a major college team? Character flaws aside, he worked his ass off to get where he is. Even since leaving the Atlanta Falcons the guy has worked on his technique and improved his game in some key areas. It's not even up for dispute, he has become a better pocket passer. So I kind of take issue with the idea that things fell into his lap because "he's gifted" and people "coddled" him. He honed his gift, perfected his craft, and rose to the top of his profession. JaMarcus Russell is an example of someone being coddled and gifted and consequently washing out of the league. Same with Ryan Leaf. Both were immense talents, but they were just too arrogant and lazy to become better pros and excel.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=SmootSmack;839795]Whine to the refs, don't do it in a press conference[/quote]

As you would say, preach.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=SmootSmack;839795]Whine to the refs, don't do it in a press conference[/quote]

Ha..what is he supposed to do call them up on the cell? I think the public format where the fans get to hear what athletes are thinking in their most raw state is a part of the sport we also love. I don't care what a player thinks about the hit in the offseason, months later. It's not even news at that point. I want to know if he's pissed right now. Who's saying what and why did they say it. If it's every other week, then that's a different story.

It's not like these guys are working 9-5 office jobs and they can ask the boss out for a drink after work to hash things out. That luxury doesn't really exist in the NFL; or the NBA, NHL, MLB. Everything's real time. You're bustling off to prepare for the next opponent, getting rehabbed, watching game tape, etc.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

Whether you know if he's pissed or not won't make a difference. But if he (and Reid) constantly (yet not annoyingly) talk to the refs during the games that will make a difference. It's what Brady and Belichick do, they work the system.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

All the greats work the refs on the field. You'll never hear Manning or Brady whining in the media. Calling out the refs in public isn't going to win you any points with them.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

He's certainly sparked some debate w/his comments, MIke & Mike were getting into a discussion over it this morning.

I expect in a day or two, he'll apologize. He spoke out of frustration. Unless they say something really personal about somebody, I'll give any of these guys a pass for speaking off the cuff right after a loss every once in a while.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

It starts by getting to know the ref by first name, remembering what their likes are, asking about their family, etc. Then it comes to complaining or noting about calls at the correct time in the right way.

Refs are trained not to favor players based on this, but it is psychological.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=12thMan;839778]Per NFL Network, Vick does not have a broken hand, but a contusion. He could play Sunday.[/quote]

Heard it on the radio too.

[url=http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/2107/michael-vick]Michael Vick - Philadelphia Eagles - 2011 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com[/url]



Oh well, we'll just have to hurt him again in Week 6.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=freddyg12;839813]He's certainly sparked some debate w/his comments, MIke & Mike were getting into a discussion over it this morning.

I expect in a day or two, he'll apologize. He spoke out of frustration. Unless they say something really personal about somebody, [B]I'll give any of these guys a pass for speaking off the cuff right after a loss every once in a while[/B].[/quote]

Agreed.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=freddyg12;839813]He's certainly sparked some debate w/his comments, MIke & Mike were getting into a discussion over it this morning.

I expect in a day or two, he'll apologize. He spoke out of frustration. Unless they say something really personal about somebody,[B] I'll give any of these guys a pass for speaking off the cuff right after a loss every once in a while.[/B][/quote]

Once in a while.

[IMG]http://www.globalsportsfraternity.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/michael.vick.giving.finger-744500.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://bp2.blogger.com/_2huydJJLWfA/RsvA5_l-CII/AAAAAAAAAO8/Gp_YKd_l5S4/s320/Vick_finger_thumb.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.scumbag-michael-vick.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Michael-Vick-Finger.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://tvoneblogs.com/thespin/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/vick_dailymail.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=12thMan;839800]SS33, you're weaving the dog fighting charge into this argument which I have no interest in discussing.[/quote]It's not the dogfighting issue, but the mindset in his letter to the judge. I have experiences with young people who have done some dumb $hit, all while having it pretty good. The type of responses and justifications I've heard are similar to Vick's.

[quote]The title of the thread seems a little disingenuous because it singles out Mike Vick as soft or whiny and I don't feel he has a history of whining about being hit late or when things on the gridiron don't go his way.[/quote]Him and Reid were whining back in Dec. 2010. Here's another link: [URL="http://articles.philly.com/2010-12-04/sports/25292275_1_michael-vick-flag-texans"]Reid, Vick want more protection from officials - Philly.com[/URL]

As SS & Matty mentioned, work the refs on the field, not in the media.

I take issue with folks saying Vick is so "tough". He's no tougher than any other QB in the league. Is he completely soft, no. He's a smaller guy that absorbs some hits, but it's because of how he plays. Let's not make it like he's FB tough or something. This whiny-baby stuff in the media in itself is soft.

[quote]My final point is, who in the hell are you ---or any of us-- to say Michael Vick has been coddled all of his life?[/quote]Has Vick improved recently, yes. Before his exit from the NFL did he "work his ass off", absolutley not. He's admitted as much.

I'm sure his upbringing prior to folks looking at him for his football abilities wasn't the best. But once he got to HS as a star athlete of his caliber, the rules and treatment are different, I've seen it first hand (not him specifically but with other D1 level athletes). In HS, if he was working harder (and coached better) it could have been him and Warwick in the State Championships instead of Ronald Curry and co. At VT, Vick was the team at the time, and Beamer and co. took care of him. If Vick was "working his ass off" he would've been a lot more prepared to read an NFL defense. It's not all Vick's fault, as VT certainly wasn't/isn't anywhere close to a good NFL development program for QBs. But again Vick's work ethic likely didn't go from stellar in college to crap with the Falcons.

If Vick doesn't have the physical gifts he's been blessed with, he'd be forced to work hard to be the starter. But with his talent, Vick was better than any other QB the Hokies had, or pretty much any QB in the NCAA at the time. In the NCAA (just like HS) players with great talent can get away with not putting in the same work and have a different set of rules from everyone else (coddled).

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

We could go round and round with hypotheticals about Vick's work ethic and gifts. If Vick wasn't blessed with those physical gifts he might be working in a lumber yard instead of playing professional football and the whole conversation is moot. How much better would/could he be if he put in more hours? Tom Brady good? Drew Brees or Petyon Manning good? I don't know. What I do know is, at this point, he's one of the best quarterbacks in the league. He's not among the elite pure passers, but he's definitely one of the best.

We both can agree that our modern day sports culture cater to the most talented and gifted at an early age. Vick is no exception, but he shouldn't be demagogued or singled out for it either.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

i want to say that as ive stated in other threads i am a huge Vick fan but i hate philly more then any other team. I love watching him play, a perfect world to me is if Vick plays lights out but philly looses each game because of stupid mistakes.

12th i respect your opinion and agree with you on a lot of stuff, but honestly Vick is straight up coddled. And while he may have been busting his ass recently that is primarily a new thing, before joining philly Vick got by on the minimum. And how hard he worked is relative; if you compare him working hard to his peers at the high school, college and pro days with Atlanta would you say he worked harder or less hard then the average starting QB at that respective level?

Vick being coddled:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=sportsxchange-000387056_vick-goodell-advisors-pushed-me-to-philly]Vick: Goodell, advisors pushed me to Philly - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5821901]Roger Goodell says he's proud of Michael Vick's success story - ESPN[/url]

[url=http://dogblog.dogster.com/2011/06/28/michael-vick-wins-subway-sportsman-of-the-year-at-bet-awards/]Michael Vick Wins Subway Sportsman of the Year at BET Awards (With Nike Update)[/url]

[url=http://hamptonroads.com/2011/02/michael-vick-be-honored-norfolk-arts-gala]Michael Vick to be honored at Norfolk arts gala | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/24/debate-on-vick-and-the-ed-block-courage-award-continues/]Debate on Vick and the Ed Block Courage Award continues | ProFootballTalk[/url]

And my favorite:

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl/news/story?id=6099411]Philadelphia Eagles' Michael Vick gets key to city in Dallas ceremony - ESPN Dallas[/url]

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

Hopefully, this is my last post re: Vick, because I'm really trying to get my Redskins on.

How does having the Commish speak highly of you or landing major endorsements equate to being coddled? These are perks that Vick earned as a result of his production on the field and his impact on the game at large. These companies have simply placed a dollar amount on his perceived value as a sports icon. They are not arbitrary and didn't happen in a vacuum.

It seems we're confusing whether or not Michael Vick is[I] deserving[/I] of said endorsements with getting special treatment and currying favor with people in high places, in spite of his contribution to the game. The two go hand in hand. One is "coddled" because he/she is special and bring a unique something to their world and/or profession. The lazy, non-productive, and indifferent don't get special treatment. Those that rise do. It's true in sports, politics, medicine, academia, etc.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=mlmpetert;839765][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]As mooby pointed out consistency is the problem. Instead of giving Vick more calls, perhaps just call everything the same for every QB would be a better alternative? Set a standard, let everyone know what the standard is, show everyone the full rule not just generalities of it, and call things equally for everyone.[/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]


lets be honest here Vick thinks he is a "Brady" .../..".Peyton" caliber QB...nope not even close.Once and only once has he been healthy a whole season....not true of Brady/Peyton...both have Super Bowls...Eaglets nope,he just needs to STFU!!!

1) Both release the ball quicker then he does
2) He runs ...they don't...
3) their O lines block...

.....end of it.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-league/post/the-sickest-michael-vick-move-of-all-time/2010/12/20/gIQAvjVUzK_blog.html[/url]

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=Monkeydad;839828]Once in a while.

[/quote]

How many times does it take to make a trend?

BTW I rewatched the Panthers Jags game this afternoon. Both qb's got hit a lot more than Vick and neither bitched after the game. I guess they just haven't yet learned that if you are an overpriced face of a franchise the officials should bend the rules to make you look good.

If only Ryan Leaf would have known this rule.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

Bullshit Tom Brady is the biggest crybaby in the NFL. Every time he gets hit he looks at the ref and motions his hands for a flag. I can't count how many times I've seen him plead to the refs whenever he's nicked. Anyone complaining about Vick stating the obvious didn't like Vick to start with.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

Someone didn't read previous posts it seems

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=SmootSmack;839961]Someone didn't read previous posts it seems[/quote]

Maybe someone didn't need to if they were responding to the authors initial post. :argue:

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=Longtimefan;839902][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-league/post/the-sickest-michael-vick-move-of-all-time/2010/12/20/gIQAvjVUzK_blog.html]The best Michael Vick move of all-time - The League - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]God forbid the NFL turns into the NBA when it comes to officiating and crying for foul calls.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[IMG]http://l.yimg.com/a/p/sp/editorial_image/64/64fd7755ba708f9024b4da9cda157e79/new_york_post_cover_depicts_michael_vick_as_a_baby.jpg[/IMG]

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/New-York-Post-cover-depicts-Michael-Vick-as-a-ba?urn=nfl-wp8081]New York Post cover depicts Michael Vick as a baby - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;840006]God forbid the NFL turns into the NBA when it comes to officiating and crying for foul calls.[/quote]

The league promulgated the necessity for much of the unrest with the changing of the rules on how and where you can actually hit the QB. The author here is expressing one mans opinion, my personal stance on the matter I stated in an earlier post in this thread.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

I am going to go on record and say that while I don't think it is a conspiracy or anything like that, I feel like Michael Vick is indeed a marked man and the officials certainly know and have known for a while that Vick is not being afforded the same type of treatment as other QB's.

He doesn't have to be Manning or Brady caliber, but as others have rightfully pointed out, the second anyone even gets close to those two there is a flag thrown. Vick is not treated the same way. He has taken alot of hits, many of them illegal, probably some of them with the intent to injure him. He was heated after this last loss and he was just speaking his mind, others have done the same thing. He has since apologized so i don't think it is that big of deal, players do this all the time.

What coach Andy Reid should do is continue to send in the video evidence like he did last year. At some point the refs will be forced to do their job.

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[QUOTE=SolidSnake84;841726]
He doesn't have to be Manning or Brady caliber, but as others have rightfully pointed out, the second anyone even gets close to those two there is a flag thrown. Vick is not treated the same way. He has taken alot of hits, many of them illegal, probably some of them with the intent to injure him. He was heated after this last loss and he was just speaking his mind, others have done the same thing. He has since apologized so i don't think it is that big of deal, players do this all the time.

QUOTE]

So you don't believe Vicks style of play has a thing to do with the hits?

Re: Vick is a crybaby
 

[quote=dmek25;839683] but cantys hit was definitely a penalty[/quote]




TomRock_Newsday Tom Rock
Chris Canty has not received a FedEx envelope from the league for his hit on Vick, so it looks like he won't be fined.
16 minutes ago