Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=Lotus;766563]Hard to say. We got a little more production from him than we did from, say, Archuleta. Not much, but a little. But we paid a lot more, of course.[/quote]

i think ah get's the crown, but closely followed by archuleta and jason taylor, miami really got us good on that one

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=Ruhskins;766517]So does AH become the biggest Redskins bust of all time? I kinda think so but wanted to get other opinions.[/quote]

A bust for me is a guy that can't play.

AH can play, when he wants to.

I would label it just a bad move, but not a bust. And a huge waste of money too, but that's Danny's problem.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;766539]Pockets Straight may have weeped today. I know he is/was a big AH supporter.

I mean, I can understand the suspension, the guy has been a plague all season, but there's no denying when he was healthy, had his head in the game and was actually utilized, he was a force. Unfortunately, times like that were few and far between.

Better luck somewhere else, big guy.[/quote]

In all seriousness, when has he been a force in the Burgandy and Gold?

He had one great year when he was motivated in Tennesse...he has shown nothing to indicated he can help this team. Defense ranked in the 30s with him "playing" this year.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;766569]In all seriousness, when has he been a force in the Burgandy and Gold?

He had one great year when he was motivated in Tennesse...he has shown nothing to indicated he can help this team. Defense ranked in the 30s with him "playing" this year.[/quote]

Maybe she meant farce? lol

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=mlmdub130;766567]i think ah get's the crown, but closely followed by archuleta and jason taylor, [B]miami really got us good on that one[/B][/quote]
Ehh, yes they got a 2nd and a 5th but in order for someone to 'get us' IMO they needed to draft a player that contributes to their team with that pick. The Dolphins drafted Pat White with our 2nd round pick and I want to say we got our 6th round pick back, didn't we?

Either way, Al will become the new Deion, Bruce Smith, Jeff George that lazy journalists will trot out whenever we sign a free agent or trade for a veteran.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

I can't criticize MS too much for this one, though he may've been too stubborn at some point, I don't know enough. From the outside it appeared that MS tried to make it work & AH also tried some too. MS was in a difficult position because of the $ that DS paid for AH & because he's the best DT in the game when he's really playing.

If they don't get anything for him, that's ok, I think it had to happen like this due to these factors. I think most agree here that Allen & MS would've never brought him here.

One way, maybe the only way, they can trade him is by packaging him w/another player & making the deal contingent upon it. I don't know who that player or players might be.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

Good article:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ApQO6pnZQLvTz2MPumJhMm45nYcB?slug=ms-shanahanwins120710]Shanny's winning formula: Prevail over players - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/07/union-gathers-facts-regarding-haynesworth-suspension/]Union gathers facts regarding Haynesworth suspension | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;766576]Good article:

[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ApQO6pnZQLvTz2MPumJhMm45nYcB?slug=ms-shanahanwins120710"]Shanny's winning formula: Prevail over players - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/URL]

The problem is that Shanahan’s teams aren’t winning. Worse, Shanahan has turned a good asset in Haynesworth into a worthless property. Instead of either trading Haynesworth before the season or at some point before the deadline in October – when the Redskins could have presumably received a second-round pick for him – opposing teams will now wait until Washington cuts Haynesworth this offseason.
[/quote]

Nobody was offering a 2nd rd pick for him, otherwise he would have been outta here.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

Was this mentioned in here yet? Doesn't surprise me if true.

[url=http://twitter.com/kjohnsoncsn/status/11934437310726144]Twitter / Kelli Johnson: Several team sources tell ...[/url]


What a waste of talent.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=Buster;766593]Was this mentioned in here yet? Doesn't surprise me if true.

[url=http://twitter.com/kjohnsoncsn/status/11934437310726144]Twitter / Kelli Johnson: Several team sources tell ...[/url]


What a waste of talent.[/quote]
Welcome to late Monday afternoon. :oink:

That was what spurred Al's response to J. Reid and on the radio last night.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

Well now we have an [URL="http://deadspin.com/5708279/albert-haynesworth-was-barhopping-thursday-late-for-practice-friday-suspended-for-rest-of-season-today"]idea[/URL] of where Fat Albert was on Thursday night. And there's photographic evidence too!

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;766569]In all seriousness, when has he been a force in the Burgandy and Gold?

He had one great year when he was motivated in Tennesse...he has shown nothing to indicated he can help this team. Defense ranked in the 30s with him "playing" this year.[/quote]

Thats why I said when he plays. How many games has he started? Exactly. I think the guy has the ability to be good, he's just too much of a head case and a money chaser. We took a chance on a big name with a bad rep and it bit us in the ass. Time to cut our losses and keep it moving.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=Paintrain;766597]Welcome to late Monday afternoon. :oink:

That was what spurred Al's response to J. Reid and on the radio last night.[/quote]

Haven't been on since Friday. :cheeky-sm

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;766576]Good article:

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ApQO6pnZQLvTz2MPumJhMm45nYcB?slug=ms-shanahanwins120710]Shanny's winning formula: Prevail over players - NFL - Yahoo! Sports[/url][/quote]

What was good about that article? It was a national blogger channeling talk radio speak in an article riddled with opinion, untruths (2nd round pick?) and broad sweeping shots at the organization. Not to be a defender but anyone who thinks we could have gotten a 2nd round pick and didn't, uses Jake Plummer, Ashlie Lelie and Daryl Gardner as comparative figures, doesn't understand the CBA enough to recognize that a 4 game suspension is the max and there was no point in doing it earlier in the season and who thinks that the real reason the suspension was timed was because A) Shanahan needs an diversion coming off of the Giants loss or B) that he was miffed that Al won't talk to him really has no business writing anywhere.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;766498]However, I think they held onto him because of the potential. If he does ever mature, he'll be great. So, the question is: will he mature? Brandon Lloyd did, so anything is possible.[/quote]

Not quite. They kept him purely because of the money involved, and example it would have shown had they did so. You don't give a man 21 million dollars (after asking him over and over if he was going to cooperate) and then cut him without him giving money back. That's exactly what he wanted. You also don't trade him for unless he gives money back for the exact same reason. Listen to Shanny and read between the lines. Hell, he was direct about it. He flat out said that AH wasn't going anywhere (released or traded) unless he was willing to give some of that money back.

Shanny is smart and knows what he's doing. The players hate AH and for the coach to let this douche bag to get his way, it would have open the floodgates for the rest of the idiots in the league to do the same thing. You mean I can get paid upfront money, act like a douche bag, get cut/traded and get more money? WHERE DO I SIGN UP AT? This way, he sits at home and rots.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

This was a move that unfortunately had to be made. Everyone in the league, and I assume Vinny as well, knows (knew?) that Haynewsorth tends to march to his own drummer. But Sherman Smith, among others, vouched for Albert and said that if you could put up with a little hiccup here and there he was worth it.

This has gone way beyond a little hiccup.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

The ultimate conclusion to a stubborn impasse. We won't be any better with or without him.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

This was a pissing contest from the jump. But more than anything, this drama, highlights Shanny's inability to manage an NFL team and high profile athletes in particular.

For all the talk of change, this team is wose off defesively, only 2 points per game better offensively, and appears to be poorly coached of late. Shanahan mishandled the Jason Campbell trade, he mishandled MacNabb, bungled "Derrick" Thomas, and the Haynesworth saga is well documented and will dog this coach for a long time, in my opinion.

Bottom line, Haynesworth wasn't paid a $100 million to play nosetackle. This guy was brought here to wreak havoc, and to that end Shanahan failed to get the most out of Dan Snyder's purchase.

I have zero confidence that Mike Shanahan will be a successful coach here.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=12thMan;766612]This was a pissing contest from the jump. But more than anything, this drama, highlights Shanny's inability to manage an NFL team and high profile athletes in particular.

For all the talk of change, this team is wose off defesively, only 2 points per game better offensively, appears to be poorly coached of late. Shanahan mishandled the Jason Campbell trade, he mishandled MacNabb, bungled "Derrick" Thomas, and the Haynesworth saga is well documented and will dog this coach for a long time, in my opinion.

Bottom line, Haynesworth wasn't paid a $100 mil to play nosetackle. This guy was brought here to wreak havoc, and to that end Shanahan failed to get the most out of Dan Snyder's purchase.

I have zero confidence that Mike Shanahan will be a successful coach here.[/quote]

Mishandled is putting it mildly.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;766554]Not me, I was against the signing at the time and wanted Chris Canty instead, I also mentioned what great FA signings and draft picks the Giants organization had made at that time, only to be ridiculed by people in this forum saying to go root for the Giants. By the way, I'm not pointing this towards you.[/quote]

I wanted Jason Brown (Center from the Ravens who went to the Rams as a free agent).

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

finally gone(at least for the next four games and possibly more)................this guy has caused to many distractions and im sure this offseason there will be more to come

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=12thMan;766612]This was a pissing contest from the jump. But more than anything, this drama, highlights Shanny's inability to manage an NFL team and high profile athletes in particular.

For all the talk of change, this team is wose off defesively, only 2 points per game better offensively, and appears to be poorly coached of late. Shanahan mishandled the Jason Campbell trade, he mishandled MacNabb, bungled "Derrick" Thomas, and the Haynesworth saga is well documented and will dog this coach for a long time, in my opinion.

Bottom line, Haynesworth wasn't paid a $100 million to play nosetackle. This guy was brought here to wreak havoc, and to that end Shanahan failed to get the most out of Dan Snyder's purchase.

[B]I have zero confidence that Mike Shanahan will be a successful coach here[/B].[/quote]

Interesting. How long do you think it'll be (or what do you think it'll take for) until Snyder pulls the plug?

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

Devin Thomas blocks a punt and suddenly we blew that? You know who else blocked a punt? Taylor Jacobs. DT may be, and should be, good one day. But it wasn't happening here. He needed a kick in the pants (two it seems as he couldn't even last with Carolina) and maybe, just maybe, he'll live up to the hype he had coming out of college.

I don't know what he did to mishandle the Campbell trade? Campbell had basically zero value, a combination of his poor play and Vinny openly shopping him since November of 2008.

Agree about how he handled McNabb.

Bottom line, AH was brought here to play football. It's not like we were asking him to play TE. And he would have played many positions along the line, yet he was too focused on doing things his own way to listen to a head coach with 3 Super Bowl rings.

Biggest thing is Shanahan has the support of the players here. They were tired of it. Heard from one who said "No one could get ever through to Haynesworth, he didn't care about the team and we could never count on him."and another who said "He's been a problem since last year. Remember Christmas? We didn't want to be bothered with him anymore"

They both said they liked him as a person and wished he would see all the talent he was wasting, but as teammates they wanted him out of there

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=SmootSmack;766621]Devin Thomas blocks a punt and suddenly we blew that? You know who else blocked a punt? Taylor Jacobs. DT may be, and should be, good one day. But it wasn't happening here. He needed a kick in the pants (two it seems as he couldn't even last with Carolina) and maybe, just maybe, he'll live up to the hype he had coming out of college.

I don't know what he did to mishandle the Campbell trade? Campbell had basically zero value, a combination of his poor play and Vinny openly shopping him since November of 2008.

Agree about how he handled McNabb.

Bottom line, AH was brought here to play football. It's not like we were asking him to play TE. And he would have played many positions along the line, yet he was too focused on doing things his own way to listen to a head coach with 3 Super Bowl rings.

Biggest thing is Shanahan has the support of the players here. They were tired of it. Heard from one who said "No one could get ever through to Haynesworth, he didn't care about the team and we could never count on him."and another who said "He's been a problem since last year. Remember Christmas? We didn't want to be bothered with him anymore"

They both said they liked him as a person and wished he would see all the talent he was wasting, but as teammates they wanted him out of there[/quote]

quoted for truth

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;766606]Not quite. They kept him purely because of the money involved, and example it would have shown had they did so. You don't give a man 21 million dollars (after asking him over and over if he was going to cooperate) and then cut him without him giving money back. That's exactly what he wanted. You also don't trade him for unless he gives money back for the exact same reason. Listen to Shanny and read between the lines. Hell, he was direct about it. He flat out said that AH wasn't going anywhere (released or traded) unless he was willing to give some of that money back.

Shanny is smart and knows what he's doing. The players hate AH and for the coach to let this douche bag to get his way, it would have open the floodgates for the rest of the idiots in the league to do the same thing. You mean I can get paid upfront money, act like a douche bag, get cut/traded and get more money? WHERE DO I SIGN UP AT? This way, he sits at home and rots.[/quote]

Your argument doesn't work because "they" didn't give him the money. Just because AH was paid by Vinny/Snyder then cut by Shanahan/Allen, doesn't mean that Shanahan/Allen would pay a player then cut them. The trick is to avoid paying the player in the first place, and only Vinny and Snyder are to blame for that. I have confidence in Shanahan and Allen to find committed players and pass on the slouches.

And, I don't think Shanahan or Allen care about the money.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=mooby;766599]Well now we have an [URL="http://deadspin.com/5708279/albert-haynesworth-was-barhopping-thursday-late-for-practice-friday-suspended-for-rest-of-season-today"]idea[/URL] of where Fat Albert was on Thursday night. And there's photographic evidence too![/quote]

I really don't care if the guy goes out and has a couple drinks. John Riggins would go our and get drunk and so did Sonny Jurgenson and both are in the HOF.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;766623]Your argument doesn't work because "they" didn't give him the money. Just because AH was paid by Vinny/Snyder then cut by Shanahan/Allen, doesn't mean that Shanahan/Allen would pay a player then cut them. The trick is to avoid paying the player in the first place, and only Vinny and Snyder are to blame for that. I have confidence in Shanahan and Allen to find committed players and pass on the slouches.

And, I don't think Shanahan or Allen care about the money.[/quote]


My argument does work. You forget that they redid his contract to front load it this year due to the uncapped year. He was acquired by Vinny/Snyder, but he became Shanny's problem when he inherited the team and had the contract reworked. He wasn't going to rework that contract with such a heavy front load without having assurances from AH that he was going to do his part. They did their part in giving him the money upfront, he is the one that didn't fulfill his. I'm almost certain we'll see the Redskins try to get back money from him.

You are right in a certain sense because it's more about the tone he's setting and the examples he's making for the culture to come. However, had this been some other guy not making hardly any money, he'd been cut day 1. He cut Devin Thomas, and he has LOADS of "potential/talent". Bottom line, it had to do with the money.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;766626]I really don't care if the guy goes out and has a couple drinks. John Riggins would go our and get drunk and so did Sonny Jurgenson and both are in the HOF.[/quote]

Well I never said having a drink is bad, but when you are apparantly drunk at 1:30 in the morning and you have to be at practice in the morning, it doesn't create a good impression.

This ain't the 80's anymore, and Joe Gibbs is not our coach. He put up with it knowing Riggins would give his best on the field, and that is not something Haynesworth is known for. Our current head coach preaches accountability, responsibility, and practicing good before you can play. So why would you want to be out at 1:30 in the morning knowing you have to have a good practice in order to play? That just screams Haynesworth doesn't give a f.

Btw please don't compare Sonny Jurgensen and John Riggins to Albert Haynesworth. He may have the talent to be a HOFer, but he sure as hell doesn't have the right mentality. This isn't 20 years ago, and you can't just get away with behaving like an idiot and expecting people not to treat you like one.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;766491]I wonder how much money they can recoup from this 4 game suspension?[/quote]

Haynesworth's contract has in it his base salary for the 2010 season. That is DIFFERENT FROM the roster bonus he got in 2010.

Whatever that base salary is, the Skins can get 4/16ths of it (25%) of it by not issuing him paychecks for the four games he is suspended.

The NFLPA WILL contest this suspension unless there is video evidence demonstrating Haynesworth molesting the team puppy out at Redskins Park. I have no idea if they will prevail, but they will appeal this decision through the processes established in the CBA.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;766485]I wonder, for conduct detrimental, can they get reimbursed for a portion of the signing bonus? I am thinking not, but just don't know.[/quote]

joe, what about entering into a contract in bad faith, i.e. AH entered into 7 yr contract with the intention of only honoring the first 15 months.

i figured these contracts are iron clad to exclude some of the more traditional types of breaches and remedies but, if the skins can prove via emails, TC btw AH and his agent that he only entered into the K to receive the majority lump sum of the 38 or so mil in the first 15 months then he would act in detrimental manner to force the skins to trade/release him.

its a big if.

i still firmly believe AH and his agent only entered into a K with the skins because they couldnt resist the chance to collect 38 mil for 15 months, then force his way to a trade or release so he could sign a new major contract with a new team. I think any team who was interested in AH this offseason quickly lost interest when they learned that they would have to sign AH to a new K. of course, what has been reported in the media is that any new team for AH would have to repay the skins approx 18 mil.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;766631]Haynesworth's contract has in it his base salary for the 2010 season. That is DIFFERENT FROM the roster bonus he got in 2010.

Whatever that base salary is, the Skins can get 4/16ths of it (25%) of it by not issuing him paychecks for the four games he is suspended.

The NFLPA WILL contest this suspension unless there is video evidence demonstrating Haynesworth [B]molesting the team puppy out[/B] at Redskins Park. I have no idea if they will prevail, but they will appeal this decision through the processes established in the CBA.[/quote]

You couldn't come up with a better metaphor than that? Hah. I lol'd though. Good one.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;766626]I really don't care if the guy goes out and has a couple drinks. John Riggins would go our and get drunk and so did Sonny Jurgenson and both are in the HOF.[/quote]

IMO it is a pattern and practice of lying to skins reps/coaches that is the problem, not the couple of drinks.

You look like a liar when you have a "bad" practice thursday, have drinks until atleast 1:30 am, then say you are sick and cant practice friday.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

AH is a worthless POS and nobody make me think any different.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=skinsfan69;766626]I really don't care if the guy goes out and has a couple drinks. John Riggins would go our and get drunk and so did Sonny Jurgenson and both are in the HOF.[/quote]



Different times my friend ............

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=Mattyk;766537]So does anyone still side with AH?[/quote]

I surely do not side with Haynesworth; I was leery of giving a guy with "work ethic issues" and "anti-social behavior issues" $40M guaranteed on the day they signed him.

I do think that this suspension without pay keeps him as a distraction for the team and keeps this nonsense in the news/media far longer than it needs to be there. If the Skins simply were to keep him on the roster and announce every Wednesday for the next 4 weeks that he will not be playing, that would be less intrusive - - no NFLPA appeals and the like. Or maybe they suspend him WITH pay so there really isn't all that much for the NFLPA to appeal about.

The amount of money the Skins are likely to recoup is not nearly a number that means the difference between profit and loss for the team.

I think the cleanest break possible - - suspension with pay for the rest of the year and banishment from Redskins' Park and all team activities - - is best for the team.

By the way, he can always buy a ticket and go to the game as a fan; the team CANNOT prevent that. I wonder what fan reaction in FedEx would be if he were sitting in an aisle seat on the 40 yardline...???

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/19/shanahan-albert-haynesworth-to-play-any-position-redskins-ask-him/]Shanahan: Albert Haynesworth to play any position Redskins ask him | ProFootballTalk[/url]
Flipadelphia says:
[B]Jul 19, 2010[/B] 11:46 AM
"Fat Al is gonna tear that team apart. He will do his best to make sure they dont win this year and that he is released after or during the season.
Expect alot of grumbling, sitting on the bench alone and phantom injuries out of that guy"

^^^Whoever this guy is, he hit the nail right on, all the way back in July. In fact many fans of other teams said the same thing. Seems we were the only ones blinded once again by a "Big name" signing, well most of us.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=Paintrain;766573]Ehh, yes they got a 2nd and a 5th but in order for someone to 'get us' IMO they needed to draft a player that contributes to their team with that pick. The Dolphins drafted Pat White with our 2nd round pick and I want to say we got our 6th round pick back, didn't we?

Either way, Al will become the new Deion, Bruce Smith, Jeff George that lazy journalists will trot out whenever we sign a free agent or trade for a veteran.[/quote]


Journalists are not lazy when they report facts. Those three guys - - along with Archuletta and Lloyd and - - you want me to go and find a few other names like Carrier? - - represent a sorry history of the ownership and the front office of the Washington Redskins for the last decade. Calling a reporter "lazy" simply allows you to pretend that the folks running this team for the last 10 years are better than stumblebums. They were not...


BTW, I think - - could not prove this beyond a reasonable doubt - - that signing Haynesworth was a Danny Boy move that Vinny merely carried out. Remember, I have had next to nothing nice to say about Vinny for the past 5-8 years but in this case, I suspect that this bad move is not something to put on his ledger.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=Mattyk;766537]So does anyone still side with AH?[/quote]

In this situation I can not side with either side.
Both sides have some blame.
AH has most of the blame for being such turd.

A talented but troubled player like AH and boy scout type coach like Shanahan can not live together on the same team.
AH was Shanahn's Full metal Jacket Private Pyle!

[IMG]http://thegoldensombrero.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/PrivatePyle.jpg[/IMG]


See the similarities?
The eyes?
Fat and easily shaken.
AH will go to another team that has a coach that can handle a player like AH. Clearly Shanhan isn't the bigger man and does not have the capacity to handle a weak minded player like AH.

Re: Big Al suspended for the remainder of season
 

[quote=NC_Skins;766628]My argument does work. You forget that they redid his contract to front load it this year due to the uncapped year. He was acquired by Vinny/Snyder, but he became Shanny's problem when he inherited the team and had the contract reworked. He wasn't going to rework that contract with such a heavy front load without having assurances from AH that he was going to do his part. They did their part in giving him the money upfront, he is the one that didn't fulfill his. I'm almost certain we'll see the Redskins try to get back money from him.

You are right in a certain sense because it's more about the tone he's setting and the examples he's making for the culture to come. However, had this been some other guy not making hardly any money, he'd been cut day 1. He cut Devin Thomas, and he has LOADS of "potential/talent". Bottom line, it had to do with the money.[/quote]

I believe they did their contract stuff in April. I'm not sure if it was a reworked contract, or just a check that was due as part of the original agreement. At that time, I'm not sure they had enough evidence about Haynesworth's poor work ethic to justify his release then. Also note that he was already under contract. They didn't give him a contract, they just got stuck with it. Reworking it, because it makes financial sense, is unrelated.

In any case, they didn't release him then because they wanted to try to make it work. Thomas, on the other hand, is unproven. I don't think Shanahan cares about an unproven guy. He's not going to keep around a guy like Thomas, who doesn't work hard, just because he *might* do something one day. Haynesworth has already done something in this league -- he is a proven commodity, and worth fighting for. Thomas is not.

So, they tried, and it might be over, but I'm not convinced of that yet.