Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

Yup, you are right about Sellers.. He blew the block on safety play.. Pretty much almost everyone on offense has no discipline.. Obviously, this goes on Zorn..

JC is the main victim in this whole situation.. JC can play and he just showed it in the game.. But everyone else around him just keeps blow it away, which makes JC look bad..

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GridIron26;606783]Yup, you are right about Sellers.. He blew the block on safety play.. Pretty much almost everyone on offense has no discipline.. Obviously, this goes on Zorn..

JC is the main victim in this whole situation.. JC can play and the game just showed it.. But everyone else around him just keeps blow it away, which makes JC look bad..[/quote]

Obviously he is no Peyton, but he clearly can be a pretty good QB. I just feel sick to my stomach knowing he will be run outta town of this season.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

Hall took a bad angle on the play action fake and that's why he couldn't recover and make the tackle. He bit too hard on the fake. But so what? It's not like our offense would've marched down the field and got us in FG range.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GridIron26;606783]JC is the main victim in this whole situation.. JC can play and he just showed it in the game.. But everyone else around him just keeps blow it away, which makes JC look bad..[/quote]

I dunno.

My quibble with the QB rating systems is their is no allowance for fumbles.

If you count a fumble the same as an interception, than JC's rating drops from 88.5 for all 2009 to a lowly 65.8.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606822]I dunno.

My quibble with the QB rating systems is their is no allowance for fumbles.

If you count a fumble the same as an interception, than JC's rating drops from 88.5 for all 2009 to a lowly 65.8.[/quote]But it would also drop the average QB rating into the 68.0-74.0 range. It's not like he would be the only quarterback who fumbles.

Campbell's year has not been quite as good as last year to this point. And that's disappointing, because that's one of the things that us becoming a division winner relied on.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;606724]Horton, Moore, Tryon, Hall, Jarmon, Orakpo, Haynesworth...Gibbs didn't bring any of those guys in.

I understand that it's easy to just say all blame goes to Cerrato and all credit goes to Gibbs...but let's be real here. Yes, Gibbs brought in some great players and did some great thing his second time around. But he did also make some big personnel blunders (I didn't even mention the Campbell trade which wasn't just a swap of first rounders and could end up being a blunder as well) that have negatively impacted us. There's no getting around that[/quote]


Isn't it really irrelivent how much of the fault actually lies with Vinny? I could be wrong but I read your posts a lot and I think that you believe that we would be better off if Vinny made more of the decisions then he has been allowed to make. In a way that is actually the same exact reason why most of us want him out. He does not have the clout as a GM and the respect of Snyder to make him step back. The only way the Redskins can win at all under Snyder is to have a GM that Snyder respects enough to step back. As long as Vinny is in charge of personel Snyder will always be too involved.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=hooskins;606784]Obviously he is no Peyton, but he clearly can be a pretty good QB. I just feel sick to my stomach knowing he will be run outta town of this season.[/quote]

We need to keep him in DC next year no matter at least as a backup, i will feel sick when he goes elsewhere and a be productive. Chicago seemed not able to work with Orton shipped him out got him a legit # 1 in Marshall & legit #2 in Royal with Moreno in the backfield 5-0 who needs Cutler. JC played better than Orton last year too.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

Okay, Here's a question for you guys.

Most (if not all) of you know a whole lot more than I do:

If you keep JC, what kind of contract do you give him?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606831]Okay, Here's a question for you guys.

Most (if not all) of you know a whole lot more than I do:

If you keep JC, what kind of contract do you give him?[/quote]

As a backup i guess vet min or similar to his rookie contract nothing big

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606831]Okay, Here's a question for you guys.

Most (if not all) of you know a whole lot more than I do:

If you keep JC, what kind of contract do you give him?[/quote]The way the current CBA is set up, we can offer him a RFA tender at 120% of his current salary, (which comes to roughly $3 million dollars) and receive compensation for him if he leaves.

This would not prevent the Redskins from bringing in outside competition for the job.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;606844]The way the current CBA is set up, we can offer him a RFA tender at 120% of his current salary, (which comes to roughly $3 million dollars) and receive compensation for him if he leaves.[/quote]



Wow.

So to keep him in whatever form, we have to give him a 20% raise?

Outta here.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606848]Wow.

So to keep him in whatever form, we have to give him a 20% raise?

Outta here.[/quote]Yeah, which raises him to roughly the salary of Rex Grossman or Todd Collins.

This franchise can't afford that kind of change.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;606851]Yeah, which raises him to roughly the salary of Rex Grossman or Todd Collins.

This franchise can't afford that kind of change.[/quote]

No kidding.

Looks like we are in for two more rebuilding years, and we all have seen how JC deals with change.

Sucks being us.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606848]Wow.

So to keep him in whatever form, we have to give him a 20% raise?

Outta here.[/quote]

LOL!!! That's not much at all LOL!!!

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

Everybody keeps saying Gibbs is great and he could straighten out this mess that he and Vinny put the Redskins in...Nobody is going to win with this offensive line, and that's a fact! Bring on Pete Kendall. And anybody else out there that is half decent at blocking so JC will at least have a chance to throw the ball to somebody...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=hooskins;606775]Are you taking about the players or the offensive plays? Sure the run game is quite similar, but it worked a hell of a lot better with Gibbs. [SIZE=4]Also minus the two-timeout botch, Gibbs did a pretty good job in management. [/SIZE]

Also he kept a team together, after a couple terrible starts; I highly doubt Zorn has that ability. If we lose next week the players are going to start giving up on him. We can already see the impacts of the lack of discipline both at Skins park and during games.

Yeah Gibbs player eval did have some flaws, but he got Cooley, Landry, Sean Taylor. I put a decent amount of blame on the FO this year, but Gibbs 2.0 owns Zorn any day IMO.[/quote]
Are you talking clock management? If so I think you forgot about all the times Gibbs was on the side lines looking like he had no clue what to do and all the post here saying the games has passed him by. I love Gibbs but the game had passed him by.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=JLee9718;606859]Everybody keeps saying Gibbs is great and he could straighten out this mess that he and Vinny put the Redskins in...Nobody is going to win with this offensive line, and that's a fact! Bring on Pete Kendall. And anybody else out there that is half decent at blocking so JC will at least have a chance to throw the ball to somebody...[/quote]

It was kind of bizarre that Mike Williams who has started at T in the NFL played Right Guard for us yesterday, while D'Anthony Batiste, who has started at RG in the NFL played LT for us yesterday. Bizarre...or ass-backwards. However you want to look at it.

I suppose if Rinehart wasn't hurt then Williams would have slid in at RT and Heyer would have shifted to LT. But then again if Rhino wasn't hurt, then Big Mike probably wouldn't have been active.

All that said though, what about Will Montgomery (or Armstrong as the informed fans call him)? Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he was inactive. And I thought the whole reason of not starting him was his versatility. Why didn't he step in at guard, slide Big Mike over to RT where he has started and move Heyer over to LT yesterday when Samuels went down? Heyer is no great shakes at left tackle, but at least he has experience on that side.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;606872]All that said though, what about Will Montgomery (or Armstrong as the informed fans call him)? Maybe I missed it, but I don't think he was inactive. And I thought the whole reason of not starting him was his versatility. Why didn't he step in at guard, slide Big Mike over to RT where he has started and move Heyer over to LT yesterday when Samuels went down? Heyer is no great shakes at left tackle, but at least he has experience on that side.[/quote]He was inactive.

Only Batiste (and maybe Edwin Williams?) was active but not starting yesterday.

It's kind of amazing that whenever Zorn has severely understaffed his OL over the past two years, Samuels has gotten hurt. But then again, that's pretty much all Zorn's fault for not being prepared.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=JLee9718;606859]Everybody keeps saying Gibbs is great and he could straighten out this mess that he and Vinny put the Redskins in...Nobody is going to win with this offensive line, and that's a fact! Bring on Pete Kendall. And anybody else out there that is half decent at blocking so JC will at least have a chance to throw the ball to somebody...[/quote]

I think Gibbs would probably have found a way to straighten out this mess eventually. This team seems to be falling apart more and more as time goes on, instead of better. The problem with Gibbs's recent coaching stint was - his offensive style of game was boring and too predictable.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;606885]He was inactive.

Only Batiste (and maybe Edwin Williams?) was active but not starting yesterday.

It's kind of amazing that whenever Zorn has severely understaffed his OL over the past two years, Samuels has gotten hurt. But then again, that's pretty much all Zorn's fault for not being prepared.[/quote]

Are you sure? I thought Williams was inactive, but not Will Montgomery.

Here's Reid's list

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/rinehart-out-mike-williams-in.html]Redskins Insider - Rinehart Out, Mike Williams In (with Inactives)[/url]

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

Gibbs probably could have straightened this out but Gibbs didn't have to deal with constant rumors of being replaced and he had Dannys full support. Now, Gibbs is THE MAN if you ask me, but would it have killed Danny to come out and say that Zorn is his coach and he has his full support? Maybe let the players know that Zorn wasn't going anywhere and they needed to get their ass in gear? I think that would have been a good thing for a young coach that you supposedly had so much confidence in not so long ago.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=warriorzpath;606891]I think Gibbs would probably have found a way to straighten out this mess eventually. This team seems to be falling apart more and more as time goes on, instead of better. The problem with Gibbs's recent coaching stint was - his offensive style of game was boring and too predictable.[/quote]

I dunno, seems that Gibbs did the best he could and in the end he could barely raise the team's head out of the water. Now they've fallen flat back on their faces without him. It's going to take some drastic changes, ones that I'm not sure Snyder is willing to make. So it looks like we're destined to toil around in mediocrity until Snyder finally realizes his way is the wrong way.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=53Fan;606910]Gibbs probably could have straightened this out but Gibbs didn't have to deal with constant rumors of being replaced and he had Dannys full support. Now, Gibbs is THE MAN if you ask me, but would it have killed Danny to come out and say that Zorn is his coach and he has his full support? Maybe let the players know that Zorn wasn't going anywhere and they needed to get their ass in gear? I think that would have been a good thing for a young coach that you supposedly had so much confidence in not so long ago.[/quote]

Excellent point. Pretty impressive for someone who isn't even a moderator...Skinny Tee, I'm just yanking your chain :)

I think though that one reason he won't is that (apart from the obvious that he doesn't have confidence in him) is that I'm not sure Zorn ever has had Snyder's full support. Zorn has Cerrato's full support (had it at least), and Cerrato has Snyder's (had it at least) so in that sense yes Zorn does have (did have?) Snyder's full support but I don't think Snyder feels the same way about Zorn as he did for say Spurrier.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606831]Okay, Here's a question for you guys.

Most (if not all) of you know a whole lot more than I do:

If you keep JC, what kind of contract do you give him?[/quote]

I think we should sign him to a 2 year deal and then bring in some competition. Anyone know the status of Kevin Kolb's contract?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;606902]Are you sure? I thought Williams was inactive, but not Will Montgomery.

Here's Reid's list

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/rinehart-out-mike-williams-in.html"]Redskins Insider - Rinehart Out, Mike Williams In (with Inactives)[/URL][/quote]That was my source as well, although at gametime. It's possible that I saw "Montgomery" and thought Will, though it was written as Anthony, although I'm pretty sure it read "Will Montgomery" at one point.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606822]I dunno.

My quibble with the QB rating systems is their is no allowance for fumbles.

If you count a fumble the same as an interception, than JC's rating drops from 88.5 for all 2009 to a lowly 65.8.[/quote]

JC would not fumble often if we have O-line to protect him.. This goes to every QB in the league..

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GridIron26;606943]JC would not fumble often if we have O-line to protect him.. This goes to every QB in the league..[/quote]


That's true.

But not every sack need turn into a fumble.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=jgalecpa;606948]But not every sack need turn into a fumble.[/quote]

Right.. JC was sacked 5 times and he fumbled only once.. If JC fumbled every time he was sacked, then I'm in bandwagon with you but that's not what happened..

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

Calling a sweep in your own endzone: stupid. Burning your last timeout with 8 mins left in the game, because you don't like the defense: stupid. Zorn: stupid. Fire Zorn: smart.

WTF ever happened to the trap play? HB power? So f'ing ridiculous. This is high school shit, and Zorn doesn't even get it. He's too busy trying to run end-arounds and HB options. Major f'ing douche. GTFO Zorn.

JC is like a scared little puppy. Almost all of the sacks we've had are his fault. He's gotta get the ball out quicker, but it seems he won't throw a pass unless the guy is wide open. Maybe it's because the WRs aren't running good routes, but I think he's just too scared. GTFO JC.

Where the F was Cooley? He's our leading receiver, and I don't even think he was targeted once. Stupid Zorn, just stupid.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;607010]Calling a sweep in your own endzone: stupid. Burning your last timeout with 8 mins left in the game, because you don't like the defense: stupid. Zorn: stupid. Fire Zorn: smart.

WTF ever happened to the trap play? HB power? So f'ing ridiculous. This is high school shit, and Zorn doesn't even get it. He's too busy trying to run end-arounds and HB options. Major f'ing douche. GTFO Zorn.

JC is like a scared little puppy. Almost all of the sacks we've had are his fault. He's gotta get the ball out quicker, but it seems he won't throw a pass unless the guy is wide open. Maybe it's because the WRs aren't running good routes, but I think he's just too scared. GTFO JC.

Where the F was Cooley? He's our leading receiver, and I don't even think he was targeted once. Stupid Zorn, just stupid.[/quote]

Well Cooley was not targeted to help "The Animal" D'Batiste

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;607030]Well Cooley was not targeted to help "The Animal" D'Batiste[/quote]

Yeah, but that's no excuse for me. He can stay in to block, but not every play. That's a waste, IMO. Portis can block -- why not use him for that and just never run the ball?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=SmootSmack;606872 Why didn't he step in at guard, [B]slide Big Mike over to RT[/B] where he has started and move Heyer over to LT yesterday when Samuels went down? Heyer is no great shakes at left tackle, but at least he has experience on that side.[/quote]
I think that Big Mike is the reason that we didn't do that, but who knows with what's been going on this year.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;606912]I dunno, seems that Gibbs did the best he could and in the end he could barely raise the team's head out of the water. Now they've fallen flat back on their faces without him. It's going to take some drastic changes, ones that I'm not sure Snyder is willing to make.[B] So it looks like we're destined to toil around in mediocrity until Snyder finally realizes his way is the wrong way.[/B][/quote]

That's pretty much the long and short of it. We can get amped up about individual coaches/players, but until the overall philosophy of this organization changes, it will be more of the same, year in and year out.

Snyder needs to look no further than his boy Jerrah to see that his way doesn't work. Danny is walking down that path, and the Cowboys haven't sniffed a playoff win since I was in high school (I'm 31).

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=GridIron26;606943]JC would not fumble often if we have O-line to protect him.. This goes to every QB in the league..[/quote]

I honestly am worried about Jason Campbells saftey at this point. When we start playing some of these teams after the bye, we seirously are going to need to protect with 9 guys to try to keep him upright. Seriously, he's gonna wind up in the hospital. The protection is that bad.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=Gmanc711;607367]I honestly am worried about Jason Campbells saftey at this point. When we start playing some of these teams after the bye, we seirously are going to need to protect with 9 guys to try to keep him upright. Seriously, he's gonna wind up in the hospital. The protection is that bad.[/quote]

He's going to look like Brunnel before he left, Forrest Gump as a child. "Mama said they'd be my magic shoes!"

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=Gmanc711;607367]I honestly am worried about Jason Campbells saftey at this point. When we start playing some of these teams after the bye, we seirously are going to need to protect with 9 guys to try to keep him upright. Seriously, he's gonna wind up in the hospital. The protection is that bad.[/quote]

I get the feeling that this team just doesn't like young QBs. Patrick Ramsey came here and he was shellshocked by Spurrier's fun 'n' gun. Gibbs didn't want to groom a young QB so he brought Brunell's old ass and kicked Ramsey to the curb. Gibbs refused to put Campbell in when Brunell was washed up, and between the end of Gibbs and now Zorn, they refuse to put a healthy solid offensive line in front of him.

Mark Sanchez got lucky alright, he would have had a concussion with the crappy line that we have by now.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=Ruhskins;607384][B]I get the feeling that this team just doesn't like young QBs.[/B] Patrick Ramsey came here and he was shellshocked by Spurrier's fun 'n' gun. Gibbs didn't want to groom a young QB so he brought Brunell's old ass and kicked Ramsey to the curb. Gibbs refused to put Campbell in when Brunell was washed up, and between the end of Gibbs and now Zorn, they refuse to put a healthy solid offensive line in front of him.

Mark Sanchez got lucky alright, he would have had a concussion with the crappy line that we have by now.[/quote]

Not surprising given Snyder's lack of patience.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;606356]Antoine Winfield would have pancaked Delhomme. Hall is soft.[/quote]Imagine what #21 would have done to him. It would have been like his slobberknocker of a hit on the helpless punter in the Pro Bowl. Hall should be ashamed of that effort.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=SouperMeister;607479]Imagine what #21 would have done to him. It would have been like his slobberknocker of a hit on the helpless punter in the Pro Bowl. Hall should be ashamed of that effort.[/quote]

:laughing2 Delhomme would have just fallen down.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Panthers)
 

[quote=Gmanc711;607367]I honestly am worried about Jason Campbells saftey at this point. When we start playing some of these teams after the bye, we seirously are going to need to protect with 9 guys to try to keep him upright. Seriously, he's gonna wind up in the hospital. The protection is that bad.[/quote]

Yeah that's why i don't understand drafting a QB next year, let's be real i highly doubt we will be in the running for the super bowl anytime soon. The faster we get our o-line right the faster i think we can draft another QB. I really worried about JC as well hope he can get through the season ok.