Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=firstdown;467511]Do you really believe JC has great pocket presence. I think thats one of his biggest problems. Its like he is never aware that a sack is coming or that he needs to move out of the pocket to buy time and just stands there until he gets hit. Thats one of the reasons he fumbles so many times while just standing in the pocket.[/quote]

Name me one QB that could've got out of the way of Carolina'a pass rush Sat. night? That had nothing to do with pocket presence. The first round draft bust named Lewis, who was released by STL simply abused Kendall. We made that bum look like Reggie White. I'm not worried about JC quite yet.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;467590]Name me one QB that could've got out of the way of Carolina'a pass rush Sat. night? That had nothing to do with pocket presence. The first round draft bust named Lewis, who was released by STL simply abused Kendall. We made that bum look like Reggie White. I'm not worried about JC quite yet.[/quote]

The game when JC does make you worry.... I hope I miss. I cannot imagine it being much worse than Saturday.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;467557]Well I don't look at pocket presense as a guy who seems to ignore everything around him and then take a sack or loose the ball while trying to throw. I like the fact he can focuse down field but he needs to look around some and find an open WR. At some point he has to move or throw the ball away and stop taking sacks or putting the ball on the ground. He is in a new system so I'm giving him some room but some of these mistakes are ones that he has always made.[/QUOTE]

yeah a quarterback needs to know how to feel the pressure around him and be able to move within the pocket while keeping his eyes down field. he also needs an alarm clock in his head telling him after 2.9 seconds you need to get rid of the ball. these are things you expect in a veteran and campbell is starting the "veteran" portion of his career. hopefully he will improve and the decision to bring zorn in to help him will bear some fruit.

it might not sound like it but i agree with your thoughts firstdown. good stuff.

go skins!

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

Did the sun rise or not? ;)

Look, JC certainly needs to play better, but go and watch the Peppers sack again and tell me how that's JC's fault. That is a complete collapse by Samuels. MAYBE Michael Vick gets out of that one, but few others.

We got manhandled up front. Not a great game for evaluating QB play.

I'm not saying JC doesn't have to improve. No one is denying that, as far as I can tell here. But if the oline does not block, no one is going to save us at QB.

PS I am confident that Zorn will help JC to take the next step. That's one thing he does have experience with.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=JWsleep;467602]Look, JC certainly needs to play better, but go and watch the Peppers sack again and tell me how that's JC's fault. That is a complete collapse by Samuels. MAYBE Michael Vick gets out of that one, but few others.
[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]And the other three sacks? .... I swear, I think the kid is afraid to throw the damn ball or something. He has as rocket of an arm, so throw it away.... I mean seriously, wtf?!?![/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

I think someone posed the question earlier, was JC not seeing open recievers?

I bring it up because we tend to put it all on him or the o line. What if nobody was open on some of those sacks? If the recievers aren't open and/or they ran the wrong routes, at least we can say that he didn't force the ball into coverage.

The pump fakes might be because he decided last second not to throw the ball into coverage. I'll take that & a sack over an int.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=hesscl34;467605][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]And the other three sacks? .... I swear, I think the kid is afraid to throw the damn ball or something. He has as rocket of an arm, so throw it away.... I mean seriously, wtf?!?![/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

To throw it away you have to be out of the pocket, I didn't see many opportunities for that. He had someone in his face on nearly every pass attempt it seemed.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

Some thoughts from Zorn:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/24/AR2008082402131_2.html?sub=AR&sid=ST2008082402414&s_pos=]Redskins' Starters May Not Rest Up - washingtonpost.com[/url]

During one stretch spanning two drives in the first quarter, Campbell was sacked three times in six plays. Carolina Pro Bowl defensive end Julius Peppers had a season's worth of highlight-tape footage on the third sack, pushing Samuels into Campbell, forcing a fumble and recovering the ball.

"I hate to say this, and he knows himself, and he did not play the rest of the game like this, but on the fumble [after] Jason got hit in the back, Chris Samuels wasn't ready for the explosion that he had with Julius Peppers," Zorn said. "Now, he anchored [the line] the rest of his time in there, but you've got to be ready for play [number] one. He takes pride in what he does, I know that, so it was hard for me to even say that."

Because of the offensive line's inability to provide consistent pass protection, "it was very challenging from a play-calling standpoint," Zorn said. "I was thinking about not putting our quarterback in a situation where he had to hold on to the ball for a real long time. That would have gotten into an even bigger mess. You saw us getting the ball out quick here and there 'cause it was hard to trust" the offensive linemen.

"I didn't feel like I had that luxury [to go downfield] because of the way that we were pass protecting. You have to feel solid in that pocket. You have to feel like they're going to be able to hold 'em off. You almost feel like putting one of those guys back there and saying, 'Okay, try this. Try to throw with somebody getting walked back in your face.' It's not easy."

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=JWsleep;467602]Did the sun rise or not? ;)

Look, JC certainly needs to play better, but go and watch the Peppers sack again and tell me how that's JC's fault. That is a complete collapse by Samuels. MAYBE Michael Vick gets out of that one, but few others.

We got manhandled up front. Not a great game for evaluating QB play.

I'm not saying JC doesn't have to improve. No one is denying that, as far as I can tell here. But if the oline does not block, no one is going to save us at QB.

PS I am confident that Zorn will help JC to take the next step. That's one thing he does have experience with.[/quote]

One thing I'm seeing is we're sending out 5 guys on just about every pass play. Does Zorn believe in keeping in guys to block? Cause from the looks of things our line is going to need help. It will be interesting to see what he does when the season starts. I know we all use to get on Gibbs cause he liked to keep in a lot of blockers.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

Awful performance by all, hard to tell if it was the WRs not being open, the OL just stinking it up, or JC not making reads and releasing quickly enough. That aside, my biggest conern with JC is that damn long release. He brings the ball down to his waist before getting it out, I know old habits are hard to break, but I was hoping Zorn would've had him broken of that one by now. Ball held too low by QB = fumble.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;467620]To throw it away you have to be out of the pocket, I didn't see many opportunities for that. He had someone in his face on nearly every pass attempt it seemed.[/quote]

When you have time to pump fake twice, you have time to throw the ball.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

^^ yup that was one of the knocks on him when we drafted him. i too thought he would have been trained to hold the ball higher up after so much attention was given to it by gibbs. hopefully zorn will get it done.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[QUOTE=Slingin Sammy 33;467627]Awful performance by all, [b]hard to tell if it was the WRs not being open, the OL just stinking it up, or JC not making reads and releasing quickly enough.[/b] That aside, my biggest conern with JC is that damn long release. He brings the ball down to his waist before getting it out, I know old habits are hard to break, but I was hoping Zorn would've had him broken of that one by now. Ball held too low by QB = fumble.[/QUOTE]

All of the above.. He had no shot to complete those balls, the WR were locked down and the OL was 6 inches from his face from being pushed back..

[QUOTE=hesscl34]When you have time to pump fake twice, you have time to throw the ball.[\QUOTE]

The play where he 'double pumped' he was looking for Moss who slipped and then moved on to Cooley who was double covered. On a 3 step drop, it's not designed for you to have a bunch of time, get it and get it out. His options were compromised so would you rather a sack or pick 6?

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=Paintrain;467703]All of the above.. He had no shot to complete those balls, the WR were locked down and the OL was 6 inches from his face from being pushed back..

[quote=hesscl34]When you have time to pump fake twice, you have time to throw the ball.[\QUOTE]

The play where he 'double pumped' he was looking for Moss who slipped and then moved on to Cooley who was double covered. On a 3 step drop, it's not designed for you to have a bunch of time, get it and get it out. His options were compromised so would you rather a sack or pick 6?[/quote]

I'd rather he throw it away when he feels the heat.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[QUOTE=hesscl34;467744][quote=Paintrain;467703]All of the above.. He had no shot to complete those balls, the WR were locked down and the OL was 6 inches from his face from being pushed back..



I'd rather he throw it away when he feels the heat.[/QUOTE]

Intential grounding is penalty in this league. You can't always throw it away.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;467789]

Intential grounding is penalty in this league. You can't always throw it away.[/QUOTE]
Exactly! When faced with the options of sack, INT or penalty, I'll take a sack damn near every time.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[quote=jsarno;467789][quote=hesscl34;467744]

Intential grounding is penalty in this league. You can't always throw it away.[/quote]

I'm not buying it... 4 sacks and no throw away? Not even one? I'm sorry but there's no excuse.. not even made up ones.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

I said it before... did he even have any time to get out of the pocket to throw it away on some of those sacks? If he did I didn't see it.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

As I recall, in at least two of the sacks he was barely away from the line before getting taken down. In another, Peppers rather infamously manhandled Samuels right into JC's back with Samuels barely slowing him down. Don't remember the 4th.

Also telling is the O-Line's response. Not even a hint of "it's a team thing, we have to block, WR's have to get open and QB's have to get rid of it." Instead, its "We got embarrased, manhandled, it was all us."

[I]Maybe[/I] Campbell, from a standing position and unable to set his feet b/c the DL is immediately on top of him, can muscle it high out of bounds in the general direction of a receiver (about the only place that is safe and not a penalty on those types of plays). More likely, given the proximity of the lineman, his arm gets hit or he gets hit and he loses the ball or it goes up for grabs.

This was all the O-Line. I hope they got it out of their system.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

I think it was a combination of the oline playing soft, due to being scared of getting hurt, and the wide receivers just not being able to get open.
Zorn even said himself on 2 of the four sacks..."no chance" for campbell to do anything.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

I watched the 1st half of the game again on comcast last night, and I have to say it was much better the 2nd time. I think because I'd read all the understandably negative posts here.

Really though, the O looked together for a few stretches. ARE dropped a kinda tough pass on the sideline, and on another play he catches one a yard short of a first. They were a couple plays away from getting going, but they were flat. So was the D, especially after Taylor's injury, which is understandable.

JC didn't look nearly as bad as everyone here seems to think. Sure he could've gotten rid of the ball a couple of times to avoid a sack, but that's gonna happen even to great qbs. In one play he scrambled away & almost got the pass off but his knee was down.

I'm still concerned w/the pass blocking as that's been a problem all preseason, but overall that game was more anomaly than normal IMO. We might see them play like that once this year, but not often.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

I really place the blame more on the wrs and ol than jc. I just dont think he had a chance back there at all.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;467863]I said it before... did he even have any time to get out of the pocket to throw it away on some of those sacks? If he did I didn't see it.[/QUOTE]

Obviously I didn't see the game, but I think this post says it all.

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

I think the sacks taken are indicative of the fact that Campbell still has more room to develop. I'm not sure what's wrong with that. Aren't we the impatient bunch to expect the 4th year QB to be as complete a player as he will ever be?

Re: Hey, the sun did rise this morning!
 

Watch the game again...dude he had no chance on really any of them except the one he tried to throw away and was ruled down. It really wasnt his fault i dont think he held it too long he was trying to play smart and his receivers didnt do their part in getting open, his line didnt do the job of relieving the pressure!
The qb takes all the heat. Im sure he has room to grow...and we ARE impatient...simply because this team hasnt had a geat franchise qb since....what theisman? Its a shame, most teams find that guy and build around him...we have built a team and lugged guys in there...another place where i think gibb's philosophy was outmoded.