Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;273013]I would say his comments hold as much logic as yours.[/QUOTE]

How so?

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

In a world where the quantity and value of numbers is constantly increasing, it seems that many people value intuition less and less as a result. It doesn't have to be that way. If numbers and studies conflict with my own intuition, I usually go with my intuition.

It is my intuition which tells me that the media is biased. I don't need numbers to confirm my own intuition.

Media bias is not a big deal though, because EVERYTHING has a bias. The idea is not to avoid bias -- because that would be impossible -- the idea is to always be critical, and to consider the source and context of all the information you receive.

:twocents:

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=GhettoDogAllStars;273024]In a world where the quantity and value of numbers is constantly increasing, it seems that many people value intuition less and less as a result. It doesn't have to be that way. If numbers and studies conflict with my own intuition, I usually go with my intuition.

It is my intuition which tells me that the media is biased. I don't need numbers to confirm my own intuition.

Media bias is not a big deal though, because EVERYTHING has a bias. The idea is not to avoid bias -- because that would be impossible -- the idea is to always be critical, and to consider the source and context of all the information you receive.

:twocents:[/QUOTE]

Nice post GDA.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

and maybe do not have as much trust that everything you read or hear is true

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

Think for yourself, question authority.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=saden1;273017]How so?[/QUOTE]

Your OPINION on the legitimacy of the study is just as much based on personal bias, belief and potential fallacy. I actually agree with you about the lunacy of the study based on its structure but I also realize that is only my OPINION. Your argument seemed to me to claim you were right(as in factual) while his claims were untrue based on logic. I'd say both arguments are debatable.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

I'm not sure what the argument is. for all the left wing leaning papers( or media) there are just as many that lean to the right

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;273099]I'm not sure what the argument is. for all the left wing leaning papers( or media) there are just as many that lean to the right[/QUOTE]

That is probably true, but the mainstream news outlets (e.g., CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post, etc.) tend to be liberal. Sure, you have exceptions (e.g. Fox News, Wall Street Journal, Washington Times, conservative radio) and maybe there are as many conservative outlets as liberal ones. But, I just think the "big ones" tend to be more liberal than conservative.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

The ones that dominate the news cycle are majority liberal. And I wouldn't for a second think that the numbers are close anyways. You can be graduating 80% liberals into the field and have even amounts of rep on both sides.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

im not sure what you base your thoughts on? fox is sooo biased that they over take at least 2, and maybe 3 news channels leaning the other way. and anyone who votes( or i at least hope) base their vote on the candidates track record, and not something reported by the biased media

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;273115]im not sure what you base your thoughts on? fox is sooo unbiased that they over take at least 2, and maybe 3 news channels leaning the other way.[/QUOTE]

I guess where you stand depends on where you sit. In my mind, Fox is so biased that it is almost laughable. When they discuss conservative platform X, they have one commentator who is for it and another commentator who is [I]really[/I] for it.

Sorry if you were being sarcastic and I didn't get it.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;273126]I guess where you stand depends on where you sit. In my mind, Fox is so biased that it is almost laughable. When they discuss conservative platform X, they have one commentator who is for it and another commentator who is [I]really[/I] for it.

Sorry if you were being sarcastic and I didn't get it.[/quote]
i agree with you.the only thing funnier than fox saying its fair and balanced is michael irvin sticking up for T.O.
and i meant to say biased, sorry

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

I think the problem is that you can't see that CBS, ABC, NBC, and CNN are as biased as Fox is. The media has been so left for so long that it is normal now and when there is a right leaning station like Fox they look like Hitler.

And I love those who don't watch Fox that much when they talk about how there are never liberals on. I think liberals are represented more on Fox than conservatives on CNN.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

i never said those other stations arent bised. its just that most of the time fox is worried about how they report a story, instead of just reporting it. you can spin it any way you like, but news is still news

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

You did say Fox was more biased. Nothing you said had anything to do with them worrying about how they report it until your most recent post.

And I think unfortunately there are too many people in the world who agree that news is just news when this whole discussion has been based around the idea that news isn't just news. Spin does mean a lot. Not a whole lot of people think enough for themselves to tell the difference between spin and facts.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;273188]You did say Fox was more biased. Nothing you said had anything to do with them worrying about how they report it until your most recent post.

And I think unfortunately there are too many people in the world who agree that news is just news when this whole discussion has been based around the idea that news isn't just news. Spin does mean a lot. Not a whole lot of people think enough for themselves to tell the difference between spin and facts.[/QUOTE]

I think Fox is more biased, but maybe it [rightly] feels like it has to be since all the other outlets are more numerous. And while I do not particularly care for Fox, it's probably better to have Fox around to act as a counterweight.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=FRPLG;273188]You did say Fox was more biased. Nothing you said had anything to do with them worrying about how they report it until your most recent post.

And I think unfortunately there are too many people in the world who agree that news is just news when this whole discussion has been based around the idea that news isn't just news. Spin does mean a lot. Not a whole lot of people think enough for themselves to tell the difference between spin and facts.[/quote]
i am all about the facts. just tell me the truth, and i can make it work, any way i want it to. fox was one of the biggest bashers of dan rather, for not reporting the truth. but people like bill oreilley can make up stuff about obama's schooling, and nothing gets said.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;273223]i am all about the facts. just tell me the truth, and i can make it work, any way i want it to. fox was one of the biggest bashers of dan rather, for not reporting the truth. but people like bill oreilley can make up stuff about obama's schooling, and nothing gets said.[/QUOTE]

You seem like one the few who can think for themselves. What did O'Reilly say about Obama's schooling? (Not a challenge, just a question)

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

something along the lines on how his private school was strictly Muslim. and in reality it was a Christian school, with a few Muslims attending

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

and frplg, what miracle were you there for?

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;273270]something along the lines on how his private school was strictly Muslim. and in reality it was a Christian school, with a few Muslims attending[/QUOTE]

I looked around and I don't think it was O'Reilly who was on that story.

I was there for the Dallas miracle this season. Old sig needs changing.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

its not really the point of who said it. its the point that fox definitely has a news editor, and to report fact less stories, is totally irresponsible. someone is to blame. if you are a news channel, lets stick to the news. for some reason, most of the news channels think they have to be entertaining, as well

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=dmek25;273290]its not really the point of who said it. its the point that fox definitely has a news editor, and to report fact less stories, is totally irresponsible. someone is to blame. if you are a news channel, lets stick to the news. for some reason, most of the news channels think they have to be entertaining, as well[/quote]
How do you know the Fox story is incorrect you must have seen something to contradict the story. I don't think you have to worry about Fox going after Obama as the Clintons already have investagators digging up dirt on him. She will take care of that.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

she had better worry about her own skeletons. and guilianis closet is full. the next couple of years ought to be pretty eventful

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=firstdown;273303]How do you know the Fox story is incorrect you must have seen something to contradict the story. [/quote]
comcast was reporting that Anderson Cooper went to turkey( i think?) to investigate. all of the big news providers knew of this, and decided it wasn't news worthy

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=dmek25;273316]she had better worry about her own skeletons. and guilianis closet is full. the next couple of years ought to be pretty eventful[/quote]
Don't you think that her back ground has already been looked into when Bill ran and they claimed that we would get both of them if elected. Then when Bill first took office and she started that National Health Care group which got allot of focus. Think about what she was trying to do would effect 7% of the US economy ( thats about what health care takes).

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

no one REALLY wants to tackle the health care issue. the medical industry has way too much money

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=dmek25;273416]no one REALLY wants to tackle the health care issue. the medical industry has way too much money[/quote]
I think it needs some work but not a national goverment health care system.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

i think it should be run and handled by the govt. that way everyone receives coverage, and the prices stay in line. there is no reason that a certain procedure costs x amount at one doctor, and the same procedure at a different doctor costs more( or different) and to say it needs some work is the understatement of the year

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=dmek25;273430]i think it should be run and handled by the govt. that way everyone receives coverage, and the prices stay in line. there is no reason that a certain procedure costs x amount at one doctor, and the same procedure at a different doctor costs more( or different) and to say it needs some work is the understatement of the year[/quote]

Everyone may receive coverage but it's going to be under the restraints of a budget rather than market competition. If the budget only allows for X number of procedures per month then our grandmother's are SOL until her name on the waiting list gets called. Also, to keep within budget guidelines personnel, supplies and equipment will not be top-notch.

The one item I wish would be regulated by the government is malpractice lawsuits. Too many ambulance chasing lawyers try to get something out of nothing which in turn raises hospital costs for you and me.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

i don't know how to handle the malpractice. I'm old school, and if a doctor screws me up, i want paid. thats why he gets to enjoy a 6 figure salary, the responsibility goes with it. now i agree, there are alot of frivolous lawsuits around, and they should be handled with common sense, and thrown out of court. but who gets trusted with that job? and crazycanuck, care to tell us how you like canadas health care system( thats govt run?)

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;273440]Everyone may receive coverage but it's going to be under the restraints of a budget rather than market competition. If the budget only allows for X number of procedures per month then our grandmother's are SOL until her name on the waiting list gets called. Also, to keep within budget guidelines personnel, supplies and equipment will not be top-notch.

The one item I wish would be regulated by the government is malpractice lawsuits. Too many ambulance chasing lawyers try to get something out of nothing which in turn raises hospital costs for you and me.[/QUOTE]

Too bad we can't count on the gov't to do it right. :(

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;273444]i don't know how to handle the malpractice. I'm old school, and if a doctor screws me up, i want paid. thats why he gets to enjoy a 6 figure salary, the responsibility goes with it. now i agree, there are alot of frivolous lawsuits around, and they should be handled with common sense, and thrown out of court. but who gets trusted with that job? and crazycanuck, care to tell us how you like canadas health care system( thats govt run?)[/QUOTE]

The AMA and the republicans have done a wonderful job making it appear as though there are too many frivolous lawsuits. I worked in a plaintiff's-side firm that did a lot of medmal work and I can tell you that attorneys rarely file frivolous medmal suits. Medmal suits are taken on a contingency basis, meaning that if the lawyer doesn't recover anything, the lawyer doesn't get paid. In fact, if the lawyer doesn't recover anything, the lawyer eats the cost of the suit (which can amount to literally hundreds of thousands of dollars). So, when lawyers agree to represent someone in a medmal case, they rarely do so without undergoing a thorough cost-benefit analysis that frivolous suits rarely pass.

I know the press is great at finding "frivolous" suits in court dockets. I know from firsthand experience, however, that they rarely understand what is going in a case. Moreover, they are newsworthy because they are unusual.

While OB-GYNs can get hit with huge judgments if they were negligent or reckless, they are also very, very highly paid. Moreover, who should bear the cost of the OB-GYN's negligence/recklessness? I don't think it's fair for the victims to have to simply "eat it." I also don't think taxpayers should have to "eat it." So, in my mind, the insurance carriers who the doctors are paying millions to should have to bear the cost.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

I would like to see how a republican would react to getting his [URL="http://www.metro.co.uk/weird/article.html?in_article_id=33257&in_page_id=2"]penis chopped to pieces[/URL].

This begs the question, what is your penis worth?

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

this reminds me of a funny story. former senator rick santorum, decided one his big issues was to fight against big malpractice suits. the day before his big speech, his wife received approx $395,000 settlement from a doctor, for screwing up her back. you know the saying, does as i say, not as i do. this story was run in our local paper, so i really don't know if there is any truth to it

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=dmek25;273430]i think it should be run and handled by the govt. that way everyone receives coverage, and the prices stay in line. there is no reason that a certain procedure costs x amount at one doctor, and the same procedure at a different doctor costs more( or different) and to say it needs some work is the understatement of the year[/quote]
I have several problems with a one payer goverment system.
1. People running for office or trying to hold their office buying votes by saying they will get certain things not covered by insurance covered. Thus buying votes and driving up cost. This is the biggest problem driving up cost. 2. Name one Goverment Program that has stayed at or below budget. The goverment has a very poor record.
3. If you limit saleries of Doctors (which will be done) then less will enter the field and the smater ones will go into jobs that pay more.
4. It gives the goverment more power over us and it gives them control over 7% of our ecomomy.
Thats just a few of the problems. You said why should one doctor charge X and the other charges more. Maybe one doctor gives more care has more over head is more qualified etc...

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

I don't know why people haven't simply talked about reducing medicaid eligibility requirements and boosting medicaid funding. It seems like an answer that addresses the biggest criticism of the "current system," namely that so many have no health care coverage.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;273559]I don't know why people haven't simply talked about reducing medicaid eligibility requirements and boosting medicaid funding. It seems like an answer that addresses the biggest criticism of the "current system," namely that so many have no health care coverage.[/quote]
The number of Americans without coverage is advertised at 40,000,000 which when we hear we think of that many people who cannot afford coverage. Thats a bunch of bull. How many of those people are young just out of schoool and choose not to buy health cov. because they don't see a need? How many families buy that new car or new toy instead of health ins.? How many can afford but have never had a health issue so they take the risk of no health cov? How many people just don't want to work a little harder to afford cov.? My point is that the number of people who cannot afford Health Ins. is much smaller than the Goverment wants us to know so they can solve the problem making more people dependent upon them. The Health savings plan is very affordable to most but people want everthing covered which those plans are expensive. Plus the states and Fed. goverment mandate that certain thing are covered under all policies which drive the cost way up. Some examples are drug addiction, maternity (even if you won't have or can't have a child), mental health cov, etc.. which you have to pay for even if you do not need the coverage.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;273567]The number of Americans without coverage is advertised at 40,000,000 which when we hear we think of that many people who cannot afford coverage. Thats a bunch of bull. How many of those people are young just out of schoool and choose not to buy health cov. because they don't see a need? How many families buy that new car or new toy instead of health ins.? How many can afford but have never had a health issue so they take the risk of no health cov? How many people just don't want to work a little harder to afford cov.? My point is that the number of people who cannot afford Health Ins. is much smaller than the Goverment wants us to know so they can solve the problem making more people dependent upon them. The Health savings plan is very affordable to most but people want everthing covered which those plans are expensive. Plus the states and Fed. goverment mandate that certain thing are covered under all policies which drive the cost way up. Some examples are drug addiction, maternity (even if you won't have or can't have a child), mental health cov, etc.. which you have to pay for even if you do not need the coverage.[/QUOTE]

Define affordable.

Re: Cheney treated like others, angry about it
 

Saving health plans start around $230 to $350 with some high and some lower.