Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I hope the talk of being Dan Snyder's guy is just more of the same from the fans. I think SM thinks it's his team, and if he wants a guy gone, he will be gone. If the coach says he needs someone else, he'll get someone else.

I don't know if that is the way it is, but that's the only way this franchise will move forward. I also think fans hold on to outdated beliefs about ownership way too fervently.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=irish;1115210]Its not a matter of time, Jay already wants someone else in there. But like Solid Snake said, RG is Snyder's guy [B]so Jay's hands are tied[/B].[/quote]

I just don't believe that is true anymore.

Quite frankly, I think that (1) As of now, RGIII is still DS's guy; (2) If RGIII had had full seasons and off seasons up to this point and was still benched at the end of the year, he would no longer be DS's guy; (3) Given the particular facts of his acquisition, his career to date (including his 2012 season, his injuries & the coaching changes), and his athleticism & physical talents, RGIII has been given the benefit of doubt by DS and others [I]up till now[/I]; and (4) RGIII will not be DS's guy to the tune of his 5th year extension [I]unless he shows real improvement this year.[/I]

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Bingo!
And at this point in the game, I would have done the same........

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1115163]There seems to be more internal politics involved in the QB position this season and we have a new GM, so I doubt that Jay has the authority to make any significant decisions regarding RGIII on his own. With that in mind, I can't imagine RGIII losing his starting position before Game 5 regardless of how poorly he plays.[/quote]I don't understand why the notion persists that Dan Snyder is actively meddling in the game time personnel decisions when it comes to Griffin.

When Dan and Mike Shanahan were clearly at odds Dan did not prevent Mike from benching Griffin.

Last season Dan didn't prevent Jay from benching him either.

The only internal politics about the QB position that I can see are the current HC never appeared to be willing/eager to work with the potential franchise QB he inherited. Jay imho expressed a rather curious amount of impatience and made no bones his feeling toward Griffin during the season. Jay's level of faith in Griffin is imho the biggest hurdle to Griffin's ability to max out his potential with Jay as his playcaller.

This season will answer many questions for me, the main question being whether a player/QB can have success with a HC/OC/playcaller that doesn't believe/want them.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=over the mountain;1115165]...I dont want to put words in your mouth but i hear the occasional radio called say some variance of "jay needs to call the same plays for RG3 that he does for cousins or mccoy".[/quote]You raise an interesting question and i'm always down to discuss tangents, even if they aren't my topic. So I agree with you that Jay shouldn't call the same plays for Griffin as he does for Colt/Kirk.

There are several differences between those QBs and a smart OC/playcaller/gameplanner should mold their plans around a given QBs specific skillset. So sure there are some play concepts that are universal. But the plans should cater specifically to mobility, arm strength, ability to read the field, ability to consistently execute rhythm drop back passing concepts. Colt and Kirk are more experienced in a rhythm drop back passing game. Griffin has greater arm strength and mobility. To speak in general terms one would think a 'Griffin' gameplan would be similar to a Russell Wilson, Cam Newton, Alex Smith, Chip Kelly style gameplan and Kirk/Colt gameplan could be more traditional drop back WCO ala Andy Dalton or Ryan Fitzmagic etc.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115220]I don't understand why the notion persists that Dan Snyder is actively meddling in the game time personnel decisions when it comes to Griffin.

Last season Dan didn't prevent Jay from benching him either.[/quote]


The fact that Jay wanted to start Kirk Cousins at the beginning of last season is all you need to know that Dan Snyder does have a hand in these types of things. Sure he was allowed to bench him after Gruden made it obvious to them via game film that he was clueless back there.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

i don't think rg3 is failing due to jay's lack of faith, i think he's failing because he can't feel the rush or read defenses well enough to be successful.

if you're getting the reps and the game time, you got to produce at some point. If you can't deal with the pressure, well, that's a personal problem. no one is actively rooting for him to fail - they all want to win games, but he's been the bottleneck lately.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Skinzman;1115194]There is no way in the world that he should be calling the same plays. If so, that means we need a new OC (or in this case... HC). Would anyone in their right mind call the same plays for Micheal Vick that they would call for Tom Brady (not saying we have a QB of that caliber, just an example)?

A play caller needs to understand the strengths of who he is calling the game for, otherwise they are a terrible play caller. If RG3 cant succeed based on an offense that is being called to his strengths, move on to Cousins or McCoy. But dont dare call the same plays regardless, that just means you cant figure out someone strengths or weaknesses, which means you shouldnt have that job in the first place.[/quote]

I agree 100%

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1115218]I just don't believe that is true anymore.

Quite frankly, I think that (1) As of now, RGIII is still DS's guy; (2) If RGIII had had full seasons and off seasons up to this point and was still benched at the end of the year, he would no longer be DS's guy; (3) Given the particular facts of his acquisition, his career to date (including his 2012 season, his injuries & the coaching changes), and his athleticism & physical talents, RGIII has been given the benefit of doubt by DS and others [I]up till now[/I]; and (4) RGIII will not be DS's guy to the tune of his 5th year extension [I]unless he shows real improvement this year.[/I][/quote]

I do.

!) Agree. 2)Who knows since RG didnt play. Also see NC Skins response. 3) You dont give up the world for a guy and not give him every benefit of the doubt. The Skins are doing what any team would. 4) Time will tell.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115220]I don't understand why the notion persists that Dan Snyder is actively meddling in the game time personnel decisions when it comes to Griffin.

When Dan and Mike Shanahan were clearly at odds Dan did not prevent Mike from benching Griffin.

Last season Dan didn't prevent Jay from benching him either.

[B]The only internal politics about the QB position that I can see are the current HC never appeared to be willing/eager to work with the potential franchise QB he inherited. Jay imho expressed a rather curious amount of impatience and made no bones his feeling toward Griffin during the season. [/B]Jay's level of faith in Griffin is imho the biggest hurdle to Griffin's ability to max out his potential with Jay as his playcaller.

This season will answer many questions for me, the main question being whether a player/QB can have success with a HC/OC/playcaller that doesn't believe/want them.[/quote]

Regarding the bolded part of your comments: I also found that to be odd behavior by Jay. I have to believe that one of the key reasons Jay was hired was to develop RGIII and Kirk, yet he showed little patience with either one of them. If he was called on the carpet for that, then he deserved it.

The point I was trying to make is that I think higher management is holding Jay's feet to the fire in terms of his making a better effort to develop RGIII. If that is the case, then RGIII can't develop on the bench. That would mean that RGIII should have a longer leash this season, not a shorter one. That's why I think he gets at least four games to start the season.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I think both RG3 and Gruden need to turn it around this year. While RG3's failures were his own doing, Jay didn't do that great of a job as a coach either.

My problem with Gruden is that he gave up too quickly on RG3 and tried to put all the blame on him. Technically he was right, but at the end of the day he's the coach of the team, and he has to be accountable with what happens with the team.

I think if things don't work out this year, both Gruden and RG3 will be gone.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1115223]The fact that Jay wanted to start Kirk Cousins at the beginning of last season is all you need to know that Dan Snyder does have a hand in these types of things. Sure he was allowed to bench him after Gruden made it obvious to them via game film that he was clueless back there.[/quote]First of all its not a fact that Jay wanted to start Kirk last year. Let's get that straight before we have this discussion. A fact like that requires proof.

So you can't prove that Dan meddles based on a fiction that you invent.

Now with that cleared up let's discuss what actually was reported last year during training camp. Chris Russell reported that Jay and McVay were frustrated and impatient with Griffin early during camp. Now, let's stop and think about that for a second. A HC was hired and I'm sure one of the expressed or implied task was to develop the franchises most important asset: Griffin, a potential franchise QB. If Jay was already frustrated at that start of training camp I have 2 issues with that:
- i would be troubled that in the light of all of the media leaks from the previous HC that Jay already failed to keep team business in house
-second I could give a rats ass that Jay felt frustrated, he's not the first coach to frustrated with a QB and certainly won't be the last. He's the head guy for a reason and being able to coach and manage players, especially the QB is his job. And maybe he wouldn't be frustrated so quickly if he hired a complete coaching staff that included a QB coach and a more experienced OC

So for me Jays early impatience and frustration aren't dings against Griffin; in my eyes their dings against Jay.

And IF your previous fiction was true and Jay did want to start Kirk then it would be no surprise that Griffin struggled. I'm mean do you think a player can have success with HC-playcaller that doesn't believe in them/want them as a starter? And further IF Jay did want to start Kirk over Griffin then it would make me question the pretenses under which he was hired if he is ready to move on from one of his biggest tasks so quickly.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1115237]I think both RG3 and Gruden need to turn it around this year. While RG3's failures were his own doing, Jay didn't do that great of a job as a coach either.

My problem with Gruden is that he gave up too quickly on RG3 and tried to put all the blame on him. Technically he was right, but at the end of the day he's the coach of the team, and he has to be accountable with what happens with the team.

I think if things don't work out this year, both Gruden and RG3 will be gone.[/quote]Agreed with most of your post except that IF Griffin struggles and Jay can win games with either Colt or Kirk then Jay should stay.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

While I agree that JG was hired as HC in part to help to develop RG3 I think the ultimate reason he was hired is to win football games. His being a success as a head coach will not be based on how RG3 plays, it will be based on if the Skins win. I have no problem at all with JG not being willing to gamble his future and the future of all the other coaches and players by allowing 1 player (who seems to only want to do thing his way) who obviously couldn't do the job to keep playing just for the sake of "development".

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1115237]I think both RG3 and Gruden need to turn it around this year. While RG3's failures were his own doing, Jay didn't do that great of a job as a coach either.

My problem with Gruden is that he gave up too quickly on RG3 and tried to put all the blame on him. Technically he was right, but at the end of the day he's the coach of the team, and he has to be accountable with what happens with the team.

I think if things don't work out this year, both Gruden and RG3 will be gone.[/quote]

No matter how bad things get this year, you have to give Gruden one more year. Firing him after two seasons would symbolize everything that has been wrong with the Redskins since Snyder bought the team.