Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;878275]In fact, many of the greatest players have turned out to be less than average as a coach...

Otto Graham
Norm Van Brocklin
Art Shell
Mike Singletary
Forrest Gregg
Bart Starr
Tom Fears

I believe all of them are in the HoF... and none of them had "anything near distinguished" coaching careers.

Yes, Mike Ditka was a great player and he had a good run with the Bears. His time with the Saints - - not so much.

Yes, Bud Grant was a good player and had a good time as coach in Minnesota.

Yes, Dick LeBeau was a hell of a player and is a damned good DC.

Mike Munchak's first year as a HC has been promising...[/quote]

To step out of football to reinforce this point, Magic Johnson was very candid years ago about his attempts at coaching. He admitted he just didn't have the patience w/players. Same thing for Jordan when he took to the floor w/the Wizards. While he wasn't the coach per se, having worked in the front office he was expected to mentor & guide the young guys. He had a lot of guys turn on him.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=SBXVII;878320]I don't know why people just want to knock DG. Yes he was self centered and he would only do interviews if he could announce his organization but people fail to remember he took smoot one summer and coached him and smoot was a beast after. He took bailey and did the same. So I have no doubts DG would be a great coach.[/quote]

Except that Champ, according to SS, stated that DG didn't do anything to help him out much.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

Can we get Fred Smoot to coach the DB's, John Riggins for RB's, isnt Heath Shuler already coaching the QB's, Moe Elewonibi for oline. I love the offseason, Darrell Green=Great player his personality=tool.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=SBXVII;878320]I don't know why people just want to knock DG. Yes he was self centered and he would only do interviews if he could announce his organization but people fail to remember he took smoot one summer and coached him and smoot was a beast after. He took bailey and did the same. So I have no doubts DG would be a great coach.[/quote]

DG wasn't a good "leader" and nor would he be a good coach. I've heard more than one person comment on DG's lack of leadership due to his "me" personality. Me people don't make good leaders. Simple as that.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=SmootSmack;878322]So you choose Rice over Ike because of Rice's workout routine, and pretty much just want to cast aside Ike's coaching experience? I see

Incidentally, I didn't know this but apparently Ike was choice #2 behind Keenan a couple of years ago. Some say he was actually the first choice but turned down the offer[/quote]

No my point is there have been WR's in the past (I can't remember whom) that have worked out during the summer with Rice in his playing days and basically said his work out routines were difficult and by far the best they have ever had. Plus the few who had said it made them play better during the season. Maybe he's only good one-on-one IDK but he seems to know how to pass on his skill to other WR's which is what I think most of us would want. Which is why I brought up DG. Apparently he knows how to pass on his skills.

As far as Ike, I hope it works out. Just because he had some success with Haslett in the UFL doesn't mean he will do well in the NFL, but I hope he does. We need him to.

I'll agree with you and Matty about one thing though... working their way up through the ranks is how its supposed to happen. Be humble and work your way up... as in any other job. Rice probably wouldn't want to coach and for some reason I picture him commentating for someone. DG could probably do a lot better handing his organization off to someone else to run and doing what you all suggest.... working his way up through the ranks of coaching. Namely for two reasons....

1- he could make decent money to put towards his organization and probably get other players involved as well to support it.
and...
2- when he's interviewing he could (yet again) mention it which would be good advertising.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=FRPLG;878349]Except that Champ, according to SS, stated that DG didn't do anything to help him out much.[/quote]

Maybe not, but I clearly remember Champ playing like S#!% prior to DG working out with him and then playing 10x better after. He doesn't need to give credit to DG, those of us who watched the games back then know the truth. Same with Smoot, he played half decent but was a lot of times out of position to make plays, then DG took him one summer and he played better after.

I thought Carlos mentioned one year he was going to go work out with DG, but I don't know if it actually happened. If he did it might be the first case were someone really didn't improve much after being with him.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=CrustyRedskin;878350]Can we get Fred Smoot to coach the DB's, John Riggins for RB's, isnt Heath Shuler already coaching the QB's, Moe Elewonibi for oline. I love the offseason, Darrell Green=Great player his personality=tool.[/quote]

I got the sarcasm, it's funny, I like what you did.... all the way up until you mentioned Heath Shuler. Has to be the worst pick the Skins ever picked and people always want to bring him up.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=SBXVII;878356]Maybe not, but I clearly remember Champ playing like S#!% prior to DG working out with him and then playing 10x better after. He doesn't need to give credit to DG, those of us who watched the games back then know the truth. Same with Smoot, he played half decent but was a lot of times out of position to make plays, then DG took him one summer and he played better after.

I thought Carlos mentioned one year he was going to go work out with DG, but I don't know if it actually happened. If he did it might be the first case were someone really didn't improve much after being with him.[/quote]

I remember Champ basically being awesome from day one.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

Champ was a stud from day one as a rookie, and Smoot was pretty much always what he was, a decent #2.

I think you're giving way too much credit to DG here SBXVII. Did these guys perhaps pick up some good tips from DG? Sure. But it's not like he waved his magic wand and turned these guys into all-pros.

It's not like DG was any sort of great technician anyway. He relied primarily on his speed and you can't teach that, obviously.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=Mattyk;878369]Champ was a stud from day one as a rookie, and Smoot was pretty much always what he was, a decent #2.

I think you're giving way too much credit to DG here SBXVII. Did these guys perhaps pick up some good tips from DG? Sure. But it's not like he waved his magic wand and turned these guys into all-pros.

It's not like DG was any sort of great technician anyway. [B]He relied primarily on his speed and you can't teach that, obviously[/B].[/quote]

and... I'll agree with this as well. Only because he was caught out of positons many times too and made up for hit with his speed to get back into the play.

But what is a coach going to teach anyway? basics, technique, and on rare occassions how to beat a specific move the WR has. What it boils down to is the individual CB's skills and speed. If he's slow then he need to keep the cusion between him and the WR. If he's got speed then he can use more pressure at the LOS. I think we see a lot of cusion because our WR's can't run with the horses all the time and don't want to get caught behind the play.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=SBXVII;878377]But what is a coach going to teach anyway? basics, technique, and on rare occassions how to beat a specific move the WR has. What it boils down to is the individual CB's skills and speed. If he's slow then he need to keep the cusion between him and the WR. If he's got speed then he can use more pressure at the LOS. I think we see a lot of cusion because our WR's can't run with the horses all the time and don't want to get caught behind the play.[/quote]

Coach will also need to teach CBs how to read and anticipate WRs' routes. This is not something that all CBs can pick up easily.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=SBXVII;878357]I got the sarcasm, it's funny, I like what you did.... all the way up until you mentioned Heath Shuler. Has to be the worst pick the Skins ever picked and people always want to bring him up.[/quote]

Yeah Gus Ferotte would be much better, im sure he's got some good drills on head butting.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

I'll say this.... Ike has put up some impressive numbers, I like that the team is trying to bring in young coaches, I like the fact he has played and hopefully can relate to the WR's and be able to pass on knowledge and information during games to help them. He did well with Haslett in the UFL, but I don't like the fact Miami let him go. One would think if he was an outstanding WR coach Maimi would have kept him on.

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=SBXVII;878389]I'll say this.... Ike has put up some impressive numbers, I like that the team is trying to bring in young coaches, I like the fact he has played and hopefully can relate to the WR's and be able to pass on knowledge and information during games to help them. He did well with Haslett in the UFL, but I don't like the fact Miami let him go. One would think if he was an outstanding WR coach Maimi would have kept him on.[/quote]

He got a promotion. Maybe if Karl Dorrell had gotten the HC job at Yale, the Dolphins would have promoted Hilliard

Re: Redskins Name Ike Hilliard WR Coach
 

[quote=Mattyk;878369]Champ was a stud from day one as a rookie, and Smoot was pretty much always what he was, a decent #2.

I think you're giving way too much credit to DG here SBXVII. Did these guys perhaps pick up some good tips from DG? Sure. But it's not like he waved his magic wand and turned these guys into all-pros.

It's not like DG was any sort of great technician anyway. He relied primarily on his speed and you can't teach that, obviously.[/quote]

Green would also need to be willing to make a serious commitment to coaching. Something he can't do during the season if he wants to also commit to his charity. Which he does. It's one thing to spend a week or two with Justin Tryon in the summer. Being a full time position coach is quite the other.