Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

If Albert Haynesworth had a dollar for every person that voted for Barack Obama based on likeability factor, he'd be...a Redskin?

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536554]I keep it real, it's all good if I disagree with you while you're keeping it real and vice versa.



Since we're keeping it real the same thing could be said and have been said about my boy Ronald Reagan. I mean, Obama does have policy ideas. You may not like his policies but I refuse to believe that[B] 8,645,538 more people[/B] voted for him just because he's cool. Even if we suppose he won by popularity, would he still have won if we eliminate all those who didn't vote based on principles on both sides?

[B][COLOR=DarkGreen]Good[/COLOR][/B]
[B][COLOR=DarkRed]Bad[/COLOR][/B][/quote]

yeah but if you take away the dead people from Illinois he only won by 7,645,539 ;)

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536425]F....political threads. If McCain had won, this thread would be the exact same thing with McCain in the thread title and dmek and saden leading the charge. Obama won so firstdown and 70chip (and I imagine Buster will join soon) are "running things" now

Nothing ever comes out of these stupid threads, unless someone like FRPLG chimes in, otherwise it's just "hey I'm a liberal, and all conservatives suck" or "hey I'm a conservative, and all liberals blow"[/quote]

I'll second that F

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=70Chip;536543]Yeah. The How Low Can It Go thread is more of a model of what we need around here. It even got three stars. I'm not sure who started it, but you guys should check it out.[/quote]

Yeah, the thread got off to a strong start, turned into the usual "it's your fault, no it's your fault" but seems to have gotten back on track. Credit to you on starting that thread

[quote] At any rate, I think the Liberals are having fun being in charge again and most of the Conservatives are exhausted from defending Bush for all those years. So, short of a straight ban on political talk, I don't think you could really expect much more if political talk irritates you.[/quote]

I guess that's what it is really. It's never really about let's discuss what's going on. It's more about "now it's our turn to bash" and maybe in 2012 it will go back to the other side.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

......

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=SmootSmack;536595]


I guess that's what it is really. It's never really about let's discuss what's going on. It's more about "now it's our turn to bash" and maybe in 2012 it will go back to the other side.[/quote]
how long until everyone gets sick of this, and starts working on real problems? i know im getting sick of all the little kid theatrics

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=FRPLG;536564]Speaking only anecdotally(sp?) I think very few people in our fair nation vote with any mind to what they are doing. It is largely a bandwagon/popularity contest based on likeability and the prevailing politcal winds. It works both ways without any doubt. I am guessing there are about 20% of the electorate on both sides of the politcal aisle voting on principle or just plain ideaology. Another 20% each way who "think" they vote on principle but couldn't give you a very strong argument for what those principles are and what they mean. And then 20% in the middle who vote because they like the guy/girl or "think it'd be cool" to have a black president(just an example). Well I think it'd be cool we have a black president too if I actually agreed with him on much but I'd never vote for someone just because of some completely irrelevant factor.

And if there were a real absolute way to measure I'd bet every penny to my name that 8,645,538 people voted for Obama just cause "he was cool". I'd also bet a good several million or more voted for McCain for similarly stupid reasons.[/quote]

Words matter, the structure of words matter more, what words don't say even more so. When I hear "[his victory] had [I]little[/I] to do with principle and [I]more[/I] to do with popularity" I also hear the implicit position of "if he wasn't popular he wouldn't have been victorious" and that "his principles leave much to be desired." The argument also lends itself to criticism because it is open to universal usage on presidents such as Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson.

There is nothing dangerous about the election of Obama, don't take a dump on his election is all I'm trying to say. VP who moved up the ladder not withstanding, have we ever had a president that wasn't elected because he was popular?

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536625]Words matter, the structure of words matter more, what words don't say even more so. When I hear "[his victory] had [I]little[/I] to do with principle and [I]more[/I] to do with popularity" I also hear the implicit position of "if he wasn't popular he wouldn't have been victorious" and that "his principles leave much to be desired." The argument also lends itself to criticism because it is open to universal usage on presidents such as Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson.

There is nothing dangerous about the election of Obama, don't take a dump on his election is all I'm trying to say. VP who moved up the ladder not withstanding, have we ever had a president that wasn't elected because he was popular?[/quote]

Obama had rock-star celebrity status during his campaign. It was unprecedented, and there's no denying it. Sure every elected president has been popular, but Obama took it to a whole new level, and I'm sure it played a big part in his victory. During his campaign he represented the antithesis of the Bush Administration, of which the entire world had tired.

IMO he was elected because of his masterful campaign and celebrity status more so than his politics and principles. Since he went from campaigner in cheif to Commander in Cheif, his approval numbers have dipped quite a bit.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536586]I'll second that F[/quote]

Matty it seems not too long ago that you and Saden had a new thread every other day when Bush was in office but now its F political threads now that Obama is in office.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536625]Words matter, the structure of words matter more, what words don't say even more so. When I hear "[his victory] had [I]little[/I] to do with principle and [I]more[/I] to do with popularity" I also hear the implicit position of "if he wasn't popular he wouldn't have been victorious" and that "his principles leave much to be desired." The argument also lends itself to criticism because it is open to universal usage on presidents such as Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson.

There is nothing dangerous about the election of Obama, don't take a dump on his election is all I'm trying to say. VP who moved up the ladder not withstanding, have we ever had a president that wasn't elected because he was popular?[/quote]
You can hear what you want. We all tend to. I'll grant you that popularity has always been a factor. I don't think I ever made a statement contrary. That doesn't make it right though. And I am not meaning to take a dump on Obama's election more than anyone else's. It simply is front and center right now.

Obama WAS elected because of popularity not principles. That isn't meant to deride his principles it is meant to deride the notion that this country is magiaclly leaning left all of a sudden. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but his election is neither proof nor disproof either way. Hell he ran on "Change"...basically a marketers quick and efficient way to say "I'm not Bush..that guy we all hate so much".

Obama's election is only an example. I guess my issues are far more general. I think our system is very fundamentally flawed. Is it better than others? Yeah but it isn't perfect or even close and it seems to be getting worse to me.

But now we are totally off subject.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536625]Words matter, the structure of words matter more, what words don't say even more so. When I hear "[his victory] had [I]little[/I] to do with principle and [I]more[/I] to do with popularity" I also hear the implicit position of "if he wasn't popular he wouldn't have been victorious" and that "his principles leave much to be desired." The argument also lends itself to criticism because it is open to universal usage on presidents such as Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson.

There is nothing dangerous about the election of Obama, don't take a dump on his election is all I'm trying to say. VP who moved up the ladder not withstanding, have we ever had a president that wasn't elected because he was popular?[/quote]
I see alot of danger in his election and the direction he is taking this counrty. He is making Goverment the answer to everything and all the Goverment does is screw up more then it has ever fixed. Every goverment programe is basically a financial failure.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=firstdown;536640]Matty it seems not too long ago that you and Saden had a new thread every other day when Bush was in office but now its F political threads now that Obama is in office.[/quote]

Difference is I've backed off. I'm willing to give the guy a chance.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=Mattyk72;536658]Difference is I've backed off. I'm willing to give the guy a chance.[/quote]
Yea, you have backed off because its now the guy you voted for in office.

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=FRPLG;536643]You can hear what you want. We all tend to. I'll grant you that popularity has always been a factor. I don't think I ever made a statement contrary. That doesn't make it right though. And I am not meaning to take a dump on Obama's election more than anyone else's. It simply is front and center right now.

Obama WAS elected because of popularity not principles. That isn't meant to deride his principles it is meant to deride the notion that this country is magiaclly leaning left all of a sudden. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but his election is neither proof nor disproof either way. Hell he ran on "Change"...basically a marketers quick and efficient way to say "I'm not Bush..that guy we all hate so much".

Obama's election is only an example. I guess my issues are far more general. I think our system is very fundamentally flawed. Is it better than others? Yeah but it isn't perfect or even close and it seems to be getting worse to me.

But now we are totally off subject.[/quote]

Perhaps I misunderstood, I guess we're discussing a) a utopian view of how elections should be won, b) how shift leftwards in ideology is unlikely, c) hating Bush was good enough to get elected.

I'm still confused about few things though, a) how does one become popular, b) isn't reputation of the Bush Administration the rejection of their principles and policy, and c) what constitutes a shift and does losing 51 house seats, 14 senate seats, and the presidency in 4 years qualify?

Re: Obama Sure Knows How To Pick Winners
 

[quote=saden1;536671]Perhaps I misunderstood, I guess we're discussing a) a utopian view of how elections should be won, b) how shift leftwards in ideology is unlikely, c) hating Bush was good enough to get elected.

I'm still confused about few things though, a) how does one become popular, b) isn't reputation of the Bush Administration the rejection of their principles and policy?, and c) what constitutes a shift and does losing 51 house seats, 14 senate seats, and the presidency in 4 years qualify?[/quote]
When things go bad the party in charge always takes the hit. Obama ran for office at the perfect time and poeple were upset with the direction (or perceived direction) the country was heading which let Obama run with pretty much a free ride. Only a few people where pointing out his very leberal voting record and what little he had done while in office. He talked about goverment waist and all that stuff but his record told a different story. He ran as kind of a moderate but his record said he was a far left leberal and his current record says the same thing. While I like McCain he ran a poor campain and then brought in a VP who was not ready.