Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=holcknowsbest;517251]yeah he says all the right things for sure........but i am pretty sure that even jim zorn knows that if JC doesnt thwo 20 touches next year he will not be resigned nor should he, so far he is a bust. i dont care how many systems hes been in, hes just like every other first round bust......make excuses for him until finally you cant anymore.[/quote]

I guess it's the easy way out to write off 3 offenses in 4 years as an excuse, but logically it's a pretty reasonable explanation as to why his growth as a QB has been stunted a bit. He's far from being a bust, I don't even know where a take like that is coming from.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

Why are some of us ignoring JC's progress from last year to '08? He improved in a brand new system w/ a lousy line.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

what improvements has he made? and please don't talk about footwork. that's about as much of a reach as there is

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

I feel like a broken record here but here goes:

He was the least intercepted QB in the league
He cut way down on his fumbles despite being sacked 38 times
His completion % went up
His QB rating went up

All of this in yet another new offense. I think he did more than enough to show he's worthy of another season as the starter to see how much more he can grow.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=holcknowsbest;517252]ha here is the reason he is a poor fit, he cant make a quick decision. if zorn wants campbells moneys worth he needs to dial up the down field passes......he does have a cannon but he holds the ball and waits for a perfect situation and never uses that cannon.......he needs to anticipate better........the mark of a good quarterback in the nfl has nothing to do with physical attributes, that is to wow people. A good qb anticipates defenses and is able to manipulate coverages with what he does after the ball is snapped. jason campbell is a robot to me........if he every starts acting like a qb i will be behind him 100 percent but until he proves hes not a bust, i think he is the wrong fit. i just havent seen much i liked in 5 yrs. now and counting.........[/quote]

JC has only started 35 games and next year will be his 5th year. You bring up some good points and he does need to play with a little more urgency. But JC is far from a bust. A bust is Heath Shuler and Ryan Leaf. Right now JC is a middle of the pack QB, not a bust. People get frustrated with him because of what we gave up to get him and right now he's not living up to those expectations.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;517290]I feel like a broken record here but here goes:

He was the least intercepted QB in the league
He cut way down on his fumbles despite being sacked 38 times
His completion % went up
His QB rating went up

All of this in yet another new offense. I think he did more than enough to show he's worthy of another season as the starter to see how much more he can grow.[/quote]

Not so fast Matty. You're needed in the new and improved what's wrong with JC thread.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=The Goat;517269]Why are some of us ignoring JC's progress from last year to '08? He improved in a brand new system w/ a lousy line.[/quote]

He has improved in some areas (like fumbles) but he still has not improved in many FUNDAMENTAL areas where you must have good QB play. Jason campbell will NEVER EVER be a great QB. He will never win any games for his team, but he won't lose any either. He can manage a game - thats it.

Sure, everyone wants to have Payton manning, but In some offenses, thats all you need - a game manager. Unfortunately for Campbell, Joe Gibbs is no longer the coach and Jim Zorn brought the West Coast offense here. managing a game just isnt going to cut it.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;517325]He has improved in some areas (like fumbles) [B]but he still has not improved in many FUNDAMENTAL areas where you must have good QB play.[/B] Jason campbell will NEVER EVER be a great QB. He will never win any games for his team, but he won't lose any either. He can manage a game - thats it.

Sure, everyone wants to have Payton manning, but In some offenses, thats all you need - a game manager. Unfortunately for Campbell, Joe Gibbs is no longer the coach and Jim Zorn brought the West Coast offense here. managing a game just isnt going to cut it.[/quote]I think you've now said this enough times where one should expect you to base this on something more than a hunch. Can you, in any way, support this statement? If not, please stop cluttering up the board with your opinions.

More specifically, can you support it without your equally poorly supported WCO opinions?

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

HE's right.Have you been watching the games.Thats the proof.He's going to get his shot again next year and it will cost zorn his job.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

the one thing that is starting to bother me Flacco, Ryan, and Pennington. all three of those guys stepped into NEW systems and had successful years. the new system argument seems to be the main sticky point on why Campbell hasn't stepped up to the next level of qbacking. it really carries little, to no weight

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=dmek25;517623]the one thing that is starting to bother me Flacco, Ryan, and Pennington. all three of those guys stepped into NEW systems and had successful years. the new system argument seems to be the main sticky point on why Campbell hasn't stepped up to the next level of qbacking. it really carries little, to no weight[/quote]

dmek25. I see your point and everyone else that looks at it this way. But, what nobody seems to be asking is: if it's a new system and Flacco, Ryan and Pennington are succesful it must also mean there teams as a whole are sucsessful.

I think it's fair to say our team as a whole is not succesful in the new system. JC didn't give up the points, the Defense did. Had Moss not dropped so many, if our O line gave better pass protection. If we had a better pass rush. If Smoot was still Smoot. ect...

Had we beat the Rams and Bengals we'd be in the playoffs. Our TEAM needs to step up. Including JC.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=44ever;517625]dmek25. I see your point and everyone else that looks at it this way. But, what nobody seems to be asking is: if it's a new system and Flacco, Ryan and Pennington are succesful it must also mean there teams as a whole are sucsessful.

I think it's fair to say our team as a whole is not succesful in the new system. JC didn't give up the points, the Defense did. Had Moss not dropped so many, if our O line gave better pass protection. If we had a better pass rush. If Smoot was still Smoot. ect...

Had we beat the Rams and Bengals we'd be in the playoffs.[B] Our TEAM needs to step up. Including JC[/B].[/quote]

If everyone else does their job, Jasons job becomes easier. If the line does their job, he gets time. If the receivers are where they're suppose to be, he can release the ball sooner knowing they're gonna be there. It can't be easy learning a new offense while you're running for your life and trying to hit receivers who either drop the ball or are not where they're suppose to be. That's not making excuses, that's just the way it is. Now having said that, Jason has made mistakes too. Missed throws etc. He's made improvements this year whether people want to see it or not, but he still looks inaccurate and hesitant at times. Could be him, could be other factors. Probably a little of both. [B]But I'm really interested myself in seeing JC run an offense where the rest of the players are doing their job as well as they should be[/B] before we send him packing. I suspect he's getting too much blame for a poor performance by the offense as a whole.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=dmek25;517623]the one thing that is starting to bother me Flacco, Ryan, and Pennington. all three of those guys stepped into NEW systems and had successful years. the new system argument seems to be the main sticky point on why Campbell hasn't stepped up to the next level of qbacking. it really carries little, to no weight[/quote]

Two points (well maybe three). Every analyst has clearly stated Flacco works in the simplest system possible and nothing like a WC. Baltimore runs behind a much superior o-line to ours and then Flacco gets to throw downfield here and there to the open receiver. Extreme simplicity is the theme. Pennington is tried and trued vet and while some may disagree I've always thought he was a very smart QB... so he did well in a new system that has some excellent weapons. No surprise. And for Matt Ryan... carried by a healthy RB and o-line all year. Did you watch yesterday's game? W/o Turner burning it up Ryan looked like just another rookie - held the ball forever (as JC has the tendency in our brand new system), struggled w/ accuracy, and IMO he rushed several throws.

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=The Goat;517673] And for Matt Ryan... carried by a healthy RB and o-line all year. Did you watch yesterday's game? W/o Turner burning it up Ryan looked like just another rookie - held the ball forever .[/quote]

Excellent observation! Let's hope the JC haters seen that

Re: Five Things I'm Sure About (sort of)
 

[quote=The Goat;517673]Two points (well maybe three). Every analyst has clearly stated Flacco works in the simplest system possible and nothing like a WC. Baltimore runs behind a much superior o-line to ours and then Flacco gets to throw downfield here and there to the open receiver. Extreme simplicity is the theme. Pennington is tried and trued vet and while some may disagree I've always thought he was a very smart QB... so he did well in a new system that has some excellent weapons. No surprise. And for Matt Ryan... carried by a healthy RB and o-line all year. Did you watch yesterday's game? W/o Turner burning it up Ryan looked like just another rookie - held the ball forever (as JC has the tendency in our brand new system), struggled w/ accuracy, and IMO he rushed several throws.[/quote]

Good points. I'll add a couple -

Flacco throws a much better and more accurate deep ball than Campbell, so when he does get a shot to throw downfield, he doesn't sqaunder it (how bad did Campbell overthrow ARE against the 49ers... would have been a TD). Campbell needs to put more air under the ball. Flacco also seems to have much better pocket-awareness. He steps up in the pocket, while Campbell gets balls tipped, because he doesn't.

Pennington - He's always been accurate, but he's taken his knocks much like Campbell. I think the main difference is coaching. Case in point, the Fins marched down the field on their first drive today without completing a single pass to a wide receiver. Zorn should have gotten the RBs more involved in the passing game and played Betts and Cartwright more often. Look what the Chargers did yesterday throwing to their RBs and Tight Ends. DOH! - Pennington just threw his third INT.

Ryan - yes, the O line and running game helped, but he demonstrated to me that he will be a better QB than Campbell. He's a rookie, while Campbell is in his 4th season. Ryan helped the pass protection by making quick decisions and getting the ball out quickly. He also put up good numbers with the same receivers Vick almost had run out of town (remember Peerless Price and all the talk of TO going to ATL, because White and Jenkins weren't that good?).

All that said, I think Campbell might have done just as well on all 3 teams. But he played for a team that needed him to do more and he either couldn't or didn't. He should have gone down swinging against the 49ers (with nothing on the line), but he turned in 156 yards.

We should know for sure next year.