Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east]40 Maps That Explain The Middle East[/url]

Good and informative history on the Middle East. (via maps)

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1078408][url=http://www.vox.com/a/maps-explain-the-middle-east]40 Maps That Explain The Middle East[/url]

Good and informative history on the Middle East. (via maps)[/quote]

Excellent presentation. Thanks for linking that. It's a great starting point for any discussion of the region.

Couple of things that it emphasized to me:
1) the ethnic tensions aren't solely due to western influence, within the middle east there are equivalent nationality tensions that led to the European conflicts throughout 1600-1950 culminating in the 2nd world war.

2) Western and Russian arbitrarily drawing lines of demarcation, has certainly exasperated the factional divisions of the region.

3) the 1947/1948 map of the creation of Isreal, and the subsequent map showing recognition of israel and or palestine are stark evidences of a) the western intervention in the area, and b) the absolute rejection of that from almost the whole former muslim empire of 750 (map 20 compared to map 5)

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=That Guy;1078401]ukraine is obama's fault? if it were up to you, we'd be involved in yet another unfunded war, this time vs russians in crimea. that sounds... awesome.[/quote] and if it were up to you we'd just all get on our prayer mats and convert to Islam under IS rule.

[quote]and no, we already send spec ops teams and drones anywhere and everywhere doing "things". obama has increased the use and size of specs ops and drone programs a billion times over.[/quote]You are incorrect. SOCOM funding for FY2012 was 5.091B (an additional $ 2.5B was added as a supplemental to support Iraq/Afghan), funding for FY2014 is $ 5.261B. Funding has increased 3%. In FY2012 SOCOM has a total of 73397 FTEs (Civ/DoD/Contractor), in FY2014 the total is 75985, an increase of 3.4%

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;1078429][B]and if it were up to you we'd just all get on our prayer mats and convert to Islam under IS rule.[/B]

You are incorrect. SOCOM funding for FY2012 was 5.091B (an additional $ 2.5B was added as a supplemental to support Iraq/Afghan), funding for FY2014 is $ 5.261B. Funding has increased 3%. In FY2012 SOCOM has a total of 73397 FTEs (Civ/DoD/Contractor), in FY2014 the total is 75985, an increase of 3.4%[/quote]

How much straw did you use to make that strawman???

Re: All things Middle East related
 

I think the budget is a little more complicated than that. There's quite a few departments with access to those resources and lots of budget games are played to hide the true cost.

I seem to recall higher-ups specifically saying they obfuscate the spending specifically citing keeping adversaries from being able to tell what our abilities are by looking at spending by department/project as the reason. In addition to that there's a quite a history of the government admitting to 'off the books' spending specifically in this area.

I'm not exactly well educated on the issue, but I have a feeling simply looking at SOCOM funding would be quite misleading.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1078436]How much straw did you use to make that strawman???[/quote]same amount as TG used to say I'd put us in full scale war with Russia.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=tshile;1078437]I think the budget is a little more complicated than that. There's quite a few departments with access to those resources and lots of budget games are played to hide the true cost.

I seem to recall higher-ups specifically saying they obfuscate the spending specifically citing keeping adversaries from being able to tell what our abilities are by looking at spending by department/project as the reason. In addition to that there's a quite a history of the government admitting to 'off the books' spending specifically in this area.

I'm not exactly well educated on the issue, but I have a feeling simply looking at SOCOM funding would be quite misleading.[/quote]my numbers are high level, but they are pretty accurate. Most of the games with funding are done within the Intel community. I am fairly educated on DoD funding.

My point to TG is that Obama hasn't increased Spec Ops funding "a billion times over"....or anywhere near a significant percentage increase.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;1078452]my numbers are high level, but they are pretty accurate. Most of the games with funding are done within the Intel community. I am fairly educated on DoD funding.

My point to TG is that Obama hasn't increased Spec Ops funding "a billion times over"....or anywhere near a significant percentage increase.[/quote]
That's fair.

I'm admittedly ignorant on it. My post reflects my layman's view on things. That's all :)

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;1078452]my numbers are high level, but they are pretty accurate. Most of the games with funding are done within the Intel community. I am fairly educated on DoD funding.

My point to TG is that Obama hasn't increased Spec Ops funding "a billion times over"....or anywhere near a significant percentage increase.[/quote]

i'm sorry, but my first hand experience is far different than your numbers on charts. manning levels and breadth of action vastly increased at ground level.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/american-man-suspected-fighting-islamic-state-killed-205440929.html]American man suspected of fighting with Islamic State is killed[/url]


Good. Glad he's dead. Piece of shit.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

Now they have gone too far. Send in the marines!

The Islamic State is now burning marijuana fields in northern Syria: [url]http://t.co/zdJRiKaeOx[/url] [url]http://t.co/C5ZKvHkQ62[/url]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

This is what it's all about. To say any different is ignorance to say the least.

A land grab.

[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29008045]BBC News - Israel to take over West Bank land[/url]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0[/url]


At this point, I think we should halt all aid and put up sanctions against Israel. Never will happen because we have too many Israeli supporters in this country.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/01/world/meast/mideast-israel-west-bank/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]Israel slammed for West Bank land expropriation - CNN.com[/url]

UK and US aren't happy. Why are we putting sanctions against Putin but not Israel?


[url=http://news.yahoo.com/us-urges-israel-reverse-plan-seize-west-bank-182217661.html]US urges Israel to reverse Palestinian land-grab plan[/url]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1079907]This is what it's all about. To say any different is ignorance to say the least.

A land grab.

[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29008045]BBC News - Israel to take over West Bank land[/url]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0[/url]


At this point, I think we should halt all aid and put up sanctions against Israel. Never will happen because we have too many Israeli supporters in this country.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/01/world/meast/mideast-israel-west-bank/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]Israel slammed for West Bank land expropriation - CNN.com[/url]

UK and US aren't happy. Why are we putting sanctions against Putin but not Israel?


[url=http://news.yahoo.com/us-urges-israel-reverse-plan-seize-west-bank-182217661.html]US urges Israel to reverse Palestinian land-grab plan[/url][/quote]

NC, this is a huge issue and the illegal settlements have been unjustly going on for a long time.

The problem is this is under reported by the media because it a boring story for the middle east and has been for awhile.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1079907]This is what it's all about. To say any different is ignorance to say the least.

A land grab.

[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29008045]BBC News - Israel to take over West Bank land[/url]

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/01/world/middleeast/israel-claims-nearly-1000-acres-of-west-bank-land-near-bethlehem.html?_r=0[/url]


At this point, I think we should halt all aid and put up sanctions against Israel. Never will happen because we have too many Israeli supporters in this country.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/01/world/meast/mideast-israel-west-bank/index.html?hpt=hp_t1]Israel slammed for West Bank land expropriation - CNN.com[/url]

UK and US aren't happy. Why are we putting sanctions against Putin but not Israel?


[url=http://news.yahoo.com/us-urges-israel-reverse-plan-seize-west-bank-182217661.html]US urges Israel to reverse Palestinian land-grab plan[/url][/quote]That whole withdrawal from Gaza thing didn't work out. As long as rockets and terrorism continue, let the Israelis expand as they see fit. Yes, the cycle of violence continues. Ultimate responsibility lies with the group that has it in their charter to obliterate the other side, keeps breaking the ceasefires, and makes no effort to avoid civilian casualties.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1079959]That whole withdrawal from Gaza thing didn't work out. As long as rockets and terrorism continue, let the Israelis expand as they see fit. Yes, the cycle of violence continues. Ultimate responsibility lies with the group that has it in their charter to obliterate the other side, keeps breaking the ceasefires, and makes no effort to avoid civilian casualties.[/quote]

blame game is what holds everything back. This both need to come clean and bear some responsibility, both are in the wrong. Once that happens, then they can move forward.