Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

And before you inevitably chide Campbell for the mythical "locking onto WRs" criticism:

Brandon Marshall led the NFL in targets last year.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538614]I don't like the term "average" because too often, it is used to make an above average player seem worse than he really is. I don't know what you define as average, BHA, and it's very possible that Campbell is only average. But, then you see Cutler as better than average. But they are very similar players. So, you're putting one guy down (who happens to be the QB of your favorite team), to the point where you are clearly undervaluing his skill set in order to try to make a point.

Here's the thing: according to Football Outsiders, in 2008, the average performance from a quarterback was Dan Orlovsky/Trent Edwards

[URL="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb"]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008[/URL]

In their stats, an average performance always seems to be weighed down by the very worst players of the year, so average always comes out between the 20-25th best player at the position. This is only one way to define average, but I do not reject their assumption that there are more above average QBs in this league that start than below average QBs.

As you can see, Cutler was clearly more effective in Denver's offense last year than Campbell was in the Redskins. I am not disputing this. I'm disputing two things:

1) Why you think that Zorn's conservative style will mesh better with Cutler's caution-to-the-wind playing style than Campbell's.

and

2) When you replace Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal with Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El, and replace the Denver OL with the Washington OL, how you don't account for a significant drop in Cutler's output.

Obviously, if we don't improve on offense, Cutler isn't going to be as good here as he was in Denver. If we DO improve, he probably would be. And obviously, Campbell will be much better as well.



What he's been given is a bunch of different terminology, and short, underwhelming receivers, and an aging OL. That's a lot of tools, but I would argue that save for an expansion team, that's pretty much as tough a situation as it gets for a young QB.[/quote]

It's the old grass is always greener philosophy.

I know a guy who is a Broncos fan and he thinks Cutler is a whiny little punk and he could really care less if they lose him.

It all depends on your perspective. Fans always undervalue their own players while they overvalue other team's players.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Dear God, is this thread still going???

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538608]I do know if Campbell made decisions as fast and released the ball as fast as Cutler, we'd have won more games last year. Campbell holds on to the ball far too long. Our offensive line declined last year but it was still above average. Campbell simply takes too long to make decisions and holds on to the ball too long. He's had the same problem in every system he's ever been in. [B]Its unreasonable to think he's going to change all of a sudden.[/B] Its going to take YEARS to rebuild our offensive line so that its dramatically better than the one we had last year. So what do we do? keep a slow quarterback 3-4 years and hope when our lines better he can finally be a franchise QB? Or simply find a guy know who can make quicker decisions to compensate for your line?[/quote]

It's also unreasonable to think that

a.) Campbell is the only problem the team has (which ppl arguing for Cutler make it look he is).

b.) Trading for Campbell and bringing Cutler is not going to affect the locker room.

c.) Cutler is going to make an immediate difference when he needs to learn the system, is not accustomed to our WRs, and needs to develop a rapport with Zorn (things that Campbell is expected to accomplish since...wait for it...he's in the SAME offense for the 2nd year in a row!).

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;538619]Dear God, is this thread still going???[/quote]

Until the Cutler situation is cleared up I see no end to the mindless speculation and wacky trade scenarios.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538609]Well by year's end we'll know if JC is the real deal or not. Until then this debate is kinda silly considering the chance of Cutler coming here is pretty much zero.[/quote]Do you really think if Campbell improves to the point where he garners pro-bowl votes next year, that the haters are suddenly going to be nowhere to be found?

*We* already know what we have in Campbell. *They* are still hating anyway. And for Jay Cutler, none-the-less.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538622]Do you really think if Campbell improves to the point where he garners pro-bowl votes next year, that the haters are suddenly going to be nowhere to be found?

*We* already know what we have in Campbell. *They* are still hating anyway. And for Jay Cutler, none-the-less.[/quote]

It sure would be interesting to see what happens.

My guess is if he was a Pro Bowl type of QB people will either shut up, admit they were wrong and jump on the bandwagon, or insist they are still correct, kinda like offiss-style and his Portis hating (he's a 3rd down back LOL)

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538617]It's the old grass is always greener philosophy.

I know a guy who is a Broncos fan and he thinks Cutler is a whiny little punk and he could really care less if they lose him.

It all depends on your perspective. [B] Fans always undervalue their own players while they overvalue other team's players[/B].[/quote]

That sounds like what Snyder use to be accused of and fans hated him for it.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538622]Do you really think if Campbell improves to the point where he garners pro-bowl votes next year, that the haters are suddenly going to be nowhere to be found?

*We* already know what we have in Campbell. *They* are still hating anyway. And for Jay Cutler, none-the-less.[/quote]


Won't make a difference who the Qb is, I suspect we will have the same record or a game +/- difference. We acquired Haynesworth, but have a ton of holes to plug up in terms of both starting talent and depth. What is with using the term hate anyway? Folks not thinking JC is going to get the job done, doesn't mean they hate him. Hate is an extreme emotion to have for a decent QB. That being said, I don't think Campbell is going to improve all that much. He has been in the league for 6 seasons and still has some of the quirks that rooks have. The different schemes that have been thrown at him would be a factor, but it is his mechanics that are under scrutiny, thus the offensive scheme is only a partial factor. Also, a QB is only as good as the guys around him. Our Wr corp are a bunch of underachievers minus Moss. Our line is suspect and Clinton is getting pounded on as the long seasons progress. We will address this via the draft I am sure, but do you think rooks are going to be playing like all pros their initial season? Cutler is not the answer, but face it we have been at this game since we drafted Schuler, putting our hopes in a young stud only to find out he doesn't have what it takes to be the next Theismann, Schraeder, or Rypien. I don't hate JC at all, I begged Gibbs to start him ASAP, just like I was glad Ramsey was drafted and thought he could get the job done. JC might surprise us so called "haters", but I had hope in Frerotte, Ramsey, and now JC and they have been average thus far. 2009 should be it for the JC experiment. If he produces finally, all bets are off and maybe we have found our man, but thus far I can't say that I am overly confident that is going to happen.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[IMG]http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9610/cutler9297875.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

:lol: That's good.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538556]Not sure youre responding to alot of people, seems like just me, lol.


[B] Quarterbacks of Cutlers pedigree[/B] almost never make it to free agency. Cutler was drafted with the 12th overall pick in 2006. Cutler is worth two-first rounders, minimum. Trading the 13th overall pick and Campbell and a mediocre player like Horton (hypothetically) for Cutler would be the bargain of the centurey. [/quote]
HA!

HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHA

you mean a losing record, no playoff appearances and a high int %? I think you like cutler more than any bronco's fan i've ever met.

when drew brees was available - that's the guy you break the bank on. not a whiny QB that'd only be slightly better. once again, he's not bringing his WRs with him. or his OL. we don't have the money, especially if you're talking about trading away cap hit players, and he's not worth 2 first round picks AND players.

that's beyond stupid.

If you're going to sell the franchise on one player, can we at least make sure he's good before wasting 4000 pages discussing him?

I get it, you hate our QB, but saying cutler's a better fit makes me wonder if someone's paying attention - zorn is big on discipline and cutler gambles a LOT.

how many broncos games did you watch in full last season? just curious.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Highly unlikely we trade JC . Nobody knows if Culter is better or will be the better QB over the next few years . But , as long as we score 1 td a game , the QB will feel the heat , as will the head coach / OC . Denver scored 100 pts more than we did , and Cutler has thrown 45 tds the past two years vs 25 for JC . , we have a much better RB , they have the better OL . I just hope we can get the offence to get into the endzone a hell of a lot more in the coming years .

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I wonder if McDaniels is trying to pull a Darth Hoody and keep Cutler just for the hell of it. Due to fines, he won't sit out, and they have Chris Simms as back ups. Although I'm sure whatever other teams are offering may tempt him in the end.

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/23/mcdaniels-on-cutler-hes-our-quarterback/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive McDaniels on Cutler: ‘He’s our quarterback’ «[/url]

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;539178]I wonder if McDaniels is trying to pull a Darth Hoody and keep Cutler just for the hell of it. Due to fines, he won't sit out, and they have Chris Simms as back ups. Although I'm sure whatever other teams are offering may tempt him in the end.

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/23/mcdaniels-on-cutler-hes-our-quarterback/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive McDaniels on Cutler: ‘He’s our quarterback’ «[/url][/quote]
McD's just trying to make Jay feel good and wanted. I'd expect Jay to be skeptical though.