Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

My only question is how are we gonna get the ball to all these "ballers" if the o-line is injured? To me the o and d lines are more important than skill positions, you make sure you are solid up front before you start upgrading your skill positions. I do trust the front office to try and shore us up on the lines though tomorrow, the only way I will truly believe that we are nuts is if we don't bring in anyone tomorrow to give us depth on the lines. Our front office can't be that stupid though. Look on the bright side though, if our o-line is healthy then our offense will be looking pretty damn good.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Call me crazy, but we may just offer Moss and next years first for CJ? Any takers?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;443901]Maybe they all understood that 1.) Chris Cooley needed a capable backup - which we don't currently have; and 2.) A second receiving tight end is vital for Zorn's offense to work.

I highly suggest checking out the youtube clip SmootSmack posted as an example of how double TE sets can confuse opposing defenses.[/QUOTE]

I saw the play and it is cool...
My point has more to do with using top picks for folks on the bench when we need starters on the Dline and elsewhere.

On that particular play...there were 2 TE and 2 WR....that leave either our 2 current top WRs on the bench, or our 2 new top picks.

In an ideal world....I would have liked to use one of these top picks on the Dline because, hell, they'd be a full time starter at minimum by 09
My point.....Talent does nothing when it aint in the game.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;443911]Bingo. This team hasn't exactly been lighting up the scoreboard over the past few seasons. As you said, only here and there has this offense looked somewhat efficient.

Plus, it's a passing league now. Look at the Colts last year: they have Harrison, Wayne, and Dallas Clark, and they take Anthony Gonzales with their first pick.

We need more options, we need to score more touchdowns, and Moss and Randle El by themselves just don't cut it.

[B]For what it's worth, Mel Kiper just listed Washington as a Day One "Winner".[/B][/QUOTE]

and the Patriots added Stallworth, traded for Wes Welker, and then traded picks for Randy Moss...and they had just drafted Bethel Johnson, and Ben Watson... all they have to show is 75 TDs last year...

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Funny how people are forgetting our defense finished number 8 last year, and our offense struggled big time.

I don't care how good your defense is, if you can't score more than 20 points a game, you aint going far my friend.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;443917]I saw the play and it is cool...
My point has more to do with using top picks for folks on the bench when we need starters on the Dline and elsewhere.

On that particular play...there were 2 TE and 2 WR....that leave either our 2 current top WRs on the bench, or our 2 new top picks.

In an ideal world....I would have liked to use one of these top picks on the Dline because, hell, they'd be a full time starter at minimum by 09
My point.....Talent does nothing when it aint in the game.[/QUOTE]


Youre completely right, which is why we cut Llyod and why ARE and Moss are going to become more situational. Which they will be amazing at...using ARE for trick plays wehre he throws...Moss for the deep ball.

Gibbs ran screen or hail marys with moss last year. he always had to elave the game becasue he was dead tired. now he can run deep routes or make plays with a screen and come out and catch his breath without making our offense inept by taking him out.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=XXVI;443916]Call me crazy, but we may just offer Moss and next years first for CJ? Any takers?[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the exact same thing...make it happen Vinny!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Still love the Davis pick. Hahaha

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES;443921]Youre completely right, which is why we cut Llyod and why ARE and Moss are going to become more situational. Which they will be amazing at...using ARE for trick plays wehre he throws...Moss for the deep ball.

Gibbs ran screen or hail marys with moss last year. he always had to elave the game becasue he was dead tired. now he can run deep routes or make plays with a screen and come out and catch his breath without making our offense inept by taking him out.[/QUOTE]

Well...my concerns about overcompensating on O....and ignoring bigger needs will have to wait until tommorrow...
If we do well and shore up both lines and secondary with our highest picks...it could be a great draft....
But lets be honest here....aint no way we get an impact pass rusher with whats left....hopefully Chris Wilson and Andre Carter can handle that!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Soup's Uncle;443922]I was thinking the exact same thing...make it happen Vinny![/quote]


HTTR


QB - Jason Campbell
RB - Clinton Portis/Ladell Betts
TE - Fred Davis
TE/HBack - Chris Cooley
WR - Devin Thomas
WR - Malcolm Kelly
WR - Chad Johnson

OMFG SB SB SB SB!!!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Alright guys, I need good reasons why we took this TE. Here is his scouting report from ESPN:
[i]There were concerns about Davis' ability to stretch the field before the combine, and his slow 40 time backed up what we saw on film. He isn't an overwhelming in-line blocker, either, but he does a good job getting in position and he fights to sustain his blocks. In addition, he has the athletic ability, big hands and long arms to emerge as a reliable possession receiver. [/i]

I admittedly know nothing about this guy / pick, but my initial reaction is that we screwed the perverbial pooch. Please give me reasons to get on board with this.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;443917]I saw the play and it is cool...
My point has more to do with using top picks for folks on the bench when we need starters on the Dline and elsewhere.

On that particular play...there were 2 TE and 2 WR....that leave either our 2 current top WRs on the bench, or our 2 new top picks.

In an ideal world....I would have liked to use one of these top picks on the Dline because, hell, they'd be a full time starter at minimum by 09
My point.....Talent does nothing when it aint in the game.[/QUOTE]

I know. Believe me, I've been banging the 'draft D-line' drum for years. But others have said it, and they're right -- defense hasn't really been the problem -- offense has. There was a reason Gibbs deferred to the D time and time again over the past few seasons -- he knew his offense wasn't going to get the job done.

As to your point about leaving our two new picks on the bench in 2 TE sets, what makes you think they'll be on the bench? I have a feeling we're in for another shock at the wideout position in the coming months because Zorn has seen the tapes, and apparently doesn't like what he sees with Moss/Randle El.

I never expected to be able to fill all of our needs this weekend, and I'm not holding my breath that they'll unearth a diamond for a pass rusher tomorrow. I guess the defense is satisfied with the pressure they can generate, so we'll just have to make do with what we have. Blache has already said you can expect to see more aggressive blitz packages than you did under Williams.

If these guys taken today can help put more points on the board, I think you'll be happy. And so will the defense.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Lets hope the Skins target the lines tommorow. I think what people need to remember is the draft is not an exact science - there are going to be busts and gems and overall I think we have to give the FO a good grade - they were able to trade down and acquire more picks, which to me is always a positive as it allows teams more chances to find good players and it also helps out with the cap as the contract demands are a lot lower for these 2nd round and below compared to high first round picks. Just think there are bound to be some busts high in the first round and all that signing bonus money will become dead cap money at some point and the Skins have been able to avoid this pitfall. Yeah we focused totally on the offense, but I think we got good value for the picks. Also as far as lineman go remember I believe that some of the Hogs were undrafted/lower round picks, so don't despair till the whole process is done.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES;443918]and the Patriots added Stallworth, traded for Wes Welker, and then traded picks for Randy Moss...and they had just drafted Bethel Johnson, and Ben Watson... all they have to show is 75 TDs last year...[/QUOTE]

Yes. When in doubt, ask yourself, what would the Patriots and Colts do?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Seriously...there is no one that thinks Davis is good pick here????

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

This Fred Davis dude couldn't have been the best value pick, check out some draft sites...he's ranked anywhere from 51-74....we picked him 48....and there were other guys available ranked a lot higher....I am really scratching my head why we did not go value OR need with that one.

Of course I hope they know something about Fred Davis that no one else seems to know.
They sure did their research with Cooley...and that worked out pretty well.
Maybe our staff knows how to find great TEs.....I hope.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

one guy did i forgot who

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

how well you think we'll get graded for these picks (not that it means anything)?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=SKINSnCANES;443918]and the Patriots added Stallworth, traded for Wes Welker, and then traded picks for Randy Moss...and they had just drafted Bethel Johnson, and Ben Watson... all they have to show is 75 TDs last year...[/quote]
Good , we should get 60 tds this year . Rumor has it that a few teams took Kelly off their draft boards < knee's > . I have a friend in Houston that had mentioned that a few weeks ago . NFL Draftcountdown.com has that on the scouting report for M. Kelly .

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

How about a none option to the poll?

The more I think about it the more I like what we came away with when you're talking about value for where we picked these guys.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;443941]Seriously...there is no one that thinks Davis is good pick here????[/QUOTE]

I'm so confident about this pick, I should count for three.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

vinny and zorn said they picked by their board, the best available. they said they will continue to do that in the following rounds, however they dont think it will be another receiver. zorn also mentioned durability problems with receivers as another reason we took them. he said the davis pick was that obviously he was the best on their board, and it was important in the WCO to be able to change personnel to keep the defenses on their heels more or less. davis will help us be more versatile, and he also mentioned him helping in short yardage

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=WillH;443947]how well you think we'll get graded for these picks (not that it means anything)?[/QUOTE]

We'll probably be graded well because of value of WR's.
We benefitted because they dropped so much.
The true grade is our record next year.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

On the offensive line, you have to figure [B]Jon Jansen[/B] will be in the mix this season. Like it or not, that's how it's going down. I would also have to think [B]Stephon Heyer[/B], only a second year player, will be better on some mechanics, strength, and maybe add some bulk. Even if he's marginally better, and no on this board would argue that kid more than held his own last year, he's a very solid back up.

[B]Chris Samuels[/B] - Let's face it, no one is going to beat him out anytime soon. He's going to play until the wheels fall off. So I don't care how good your left tackle is coming out of the draft, that's just not a position we're looking to make any immediate changes.

[B]Casey Rabach[/B] - Again, a very solid player that is possibly the glue to the entire offensive line. He's, and I say only 30 years old right now, and has a lot of years left at that position.

[B]Randy Thomas[/B] - What else do we need to say here. Our best all around offensive lineman.

[B]Peter Kendall[/B] - Here's a position where the Skins maybe looking to replace a starter, but this year isn't that year.

So from I can see, at best the Skins need to add some depth here and not look for any immediate starters or impact players. You never want to say never, but I just can't imagine the offensive line getting crippled with injuries the way they did last year. No way, no how.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I'm thinking we'll see ARE traded for Jason Taylor.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=jsarno;443929]Alright guys, I need good reasons why we took this TE. Here is his scouting report from ESPN:
[I]There were concerns about Davis' ability to stretch the field before the combine, and his slow 40 time backed up what we saw on film. He isn't an overwhelming in-line blocker, either, but he does a good job getting in position and he fights to sustain his blocks. In addition, he has the athletic ability, big hands and long arms to emerge as a reliable possession receiver. [/I]

I admittedly know nothing about this guy / pick, but my initial reaction is that we screwed the perverbial pooch. Please give me reasons to get on board with this.[/quote]

[B]48. [/B][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"][B][COLOR=#000000]Washington Redskins[/COLOR][/B][/URL][B]
The pick:[/B] [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11742"][COLOR=#000000]Fred Davis[/COLOR][/URL], TE, USC

[B]How he fits[/B]: Based on the offensive scheme Jim Zorn will run, the two-tight end packages will be key. Davis will allow the Redskins to move TE [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6840"][COLOR=#000000]Chris Cooley[/COLOR][/URL] all over and create mismatches on offense. There were no other quality tight ends on the roster and Davis fills this need for Washington. `

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;443949]How about a none option to the poll?

The more I think about it the more I like what we came away with when you're talking about value for where we picked these guys.[/QUOTE]

Start your own damn poll! I'm going to go tear into a steak now, enjoy your soup through a straw :)

Yeah, go ahead and add that if you want. I wanted to limit the options so people chose either one of the options or just wait for the next poll

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Tha Posse;443957]I'm thinking we'll see ARE traded for Jason Taylor.[/QUOTE]

That would be sick....but its highly unlikely

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359;443958][B]48. [/B][URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=was"][B][COLOR=#000000]Washington Redskins[/COLOR][/B][/URL][B]
The pick:[/B] [URL="http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?draftyear=2008&id=11742"][COLOR=#000000]Fred Davis[/COLOR][/URL], TE, USC

[B]How he fits[/B]: Based on the offensive scheme Jim Zorn will run, the two-tight end packages will be key. Davis will allow the Redskins to move TE [URL="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=6840"][COLOR=#000000]Chris Cooley[/COLOR][/URL] all over and create mismatches on offense. There were no other quality tight ends on the roster and Davis fills this need for Washington. `[/QUOTE]

That would be nice...Cooley did seem to disappear a little too often last year, and he creates way too many problems to be lost.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Whew! It's like "what the hell happened." First off, I'm very surprised none of you commented on the reaction of Malcolm Kelly when his name was announced. I thought his look was pure disappointment - I could be wrong but holy hell that was the most forced smile I've ever seen. Secondly, lots of us figure Zorn is unhappy w/ our crop of WRs, and that is not totally a surprise. But take a minute to think about what has cost us most in passing production (aside from injuries) and I think many of us have pointed to the dropped passes. So w/ the very first pick we take a guy that the analysts say has had a hard time catching the ball! Seriously?!

All I can figure is what several have already said: a trade of our current lineup seems highly likely. I just can't figure out who or why. If it's Cooley I'm gonna shit myself.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;443962]That would be sick....but its highly unlikely[/QUOTE]

Yea, that would be nice but I don't see it happening.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Rabach seemed to have problems with injuries last year and the team passed up the chance to take Mike Pollack. If Steve Justice falls to that comp pick tomorrowed I'll be stoked for about 2 minutes then the Skins will draft Josh Johnson in which case I'll shrug my shoulders. Johnson isn't a bad pick, but they better take a bunch of lineman next year.

As I said before the matchup problems they'll be able to create with this recieving squad is immense, but if history is any indication our O-Line won't hold up and on top of that they have a poor track record of developing 4th and 6th round picks when it comes to offensive line.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Mattyk72;443949]How about a none option to the poll?

The more I think about it the more I like what we came away with when you're talking about value for where we picked these guys.[/quote]
Use post # 739 for the "none" option

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Tha Posse;443957]I'm thinking we'll see ARE traded for Jason Taylor.[/QUOTE]

LOL. I was actually about to say what if we sent our 4th for JT. I like your option much better though

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Most teams that run a two TE set usually have one that's a better catcher and one that's a better blocker. Cooley's definitely the better route-runner, but BFD can catch just as well (he was our leading receiver in our pro-style offense last season). Both of these guys can also block, but now Cooley's going to be able to shift around instead of staying in to help the edge. Oh yeah, Davis can also stretch the field.

Absolute nightmare for opposing defenses.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I was just reading on sporting news about how Mix will be involved in the offense...how is this going to be the case now with two new WR's?
Don't get me wrong, I actually like the idea. If one fails, the other can be lifted to stardom...This could be our new Monk / Clark connection except they were both drafted in the same draft.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=The Goat;443964]Whew! It's like "what the hell happened." First off, I'm very surprised none of you commented on the reaction of Malcolm Kelly when his name was announced. I thought his look was pure disappointment - I could be wrong but holy hell that was the most forced smile I've ever seen. Secondly, lots of us figure Zorn is unhappy w/ our crop of WRs, and that is not totally a surprise. But take a minute to think about what has cost us most in passing production (aside from injuries) and I think many of us have pointed to the dropped passes. So w/ the very first pick we take a guy that the analysts say has had a hard time catching the ball! Seriously?!

All I can figure is what several have already said: a trade of our current lineup seems highly likely. I just can't figure out who or why. If it's Cooley I'm gonna shit myself.[/quote]

Cooley aint going no where. Believe that. You don't trade an up and coming Pro-Bowler for a rookie. You'll see them both on the field together, quite a bit.

I can't really speak to Malcolm's forced smile - didn't see it. But the kid's coming to a playoff team with a lot of weapons on offense, a hard hitting defense, and a franchise with a rich, rich tradition.

Unless he was on some weed at the time, he has to be happy about that.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I honestly think we wanted the DT from Notre Dame Trevor Laws.., when he was picked by philly before us we had no choice but to take Kelly. Honestly it was like we should have taken Laws and they should have gotten Kelly.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=jsarno;443973]I was just reading on sporting news about how Mix will be involved in the offense...how is this going to be the case now with two new WR's?
Don't get me wrong, I actually like the idea. If one fails, the other can be lifted to stardom...This could be our new Monk / Clark connection except they were both drafted in the same draft.[/quote]

You have to figure Thrash is gone and as someone alluded to earlier, I wouldn't be shocked if ARE got traded. I don't expect it to happen, but I wouldn't be shocked.

Don't forget folks we have six picks tomorrow.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;443974]Cooley aint going no where. Believe that. You don't trade an up and coming Pro-Bowler for a rookie. You'll see them both on the field together, quite a bit.

I can't really speak to Malcolm's forced smile - didn't see it. But the kid's coming to a playoff team with a lot of weapons on offense, a hard hitting defense, and a franchise with a rich, rich tradition.

Unless he was on some weed at the time, he has to be happy about that.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure it was more of a disappointment as to where in the draft he was taken, not what team he went to.