Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=LRT]
As for illdefined's point, while last year did happen, this is not last year. All of Brunell's past success didn't help him one bit last year, but then, by the same token, last year's problems shouldn't be a millstone around his neck this year. Based on what I saw (and read) of preseason and of the Bear's game, Brunell is playing better right now. Brunell may not win games for us or lead us on any rousing comebacks, but, at least, I don't think he will lose games for us. Right now, I'm afraid Ramsey would lose games for us through bad decision-making and turnovers.[/QUOTE]

what i don't get is everyone defending brunell keeps pretending last year doesn't matter, but somehow this preseason does...

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=mooby]i know of one player that might support ramsey, and he just might be a critical factor in this. jon jansen and patrick ramsey are best friends, i've read articles about this, well what happens when your best friend gets benched, and you are assigned to protect his' replacement's blind side?[/QUOTE]

it happened last year, it won't be a problem. Jansen is a pro.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

Matty, I am a big fan of PR, but I could not agree with you more! great post. Like your post, Gibb's is NOT about emotion. The best man wins.......

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

It seems like alot of times Ramseys shoots himself in the foot. He has flashes of brilliance but then interception the Giants game last year the Cincy game last year all those were W's if Ramsey hadnt thrown picks. I can't call it, its like brain farts he be having, but if it wasnt for the picks and fumbles it wouldnt be any compettition Brunnell sucks..but turnovers kill... catch 22..we dont have a QB..

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

Matty, we argued about whether Gibbs had faith in PR for about 2 days and your opening post contradicts everything you argued for in your posts 5 weeks ago. I guess you now see what I saw all along. Gibbs never had faith in PR but gave him a shot at the starting job anyway, and PR never did anything with that shot to give Gibbs any faith in him.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]You say Brunell will look bad, based on what?

Again, forget about last year, focus on what we've seen this year.

So far this year, he's looked just fine, and Ramsey is that one that has looked bad.

Yet people are making excuses for Ramsey.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you on your analysis of Ramsey, as hard as that is given I've been a diehard PR fan. It probably is time for him to go, and after this I doubt he'll ever start in Washington again. Like it or not, he is completely disenchanted and wants out as soon as possible.

I don't, however, agree with your analysis of Brunell. For one, I refuse to "forget about last year." History is important and provides a pattern and precedent for the future. Can you predict with 100% accuracy based on the past? Of course not. But simply forgetting it just isn't smart.

Brunell has shown me nothing this preseason or in his backup effort Sunday. I'm willing to accept preseason as mildly helpful, but given Brunell was playing against backups, his stats are all but meaningless. He was 8/14 for 70 yards and no scores. Granted he had no INTs, but I think we need something far better than a QB who simply "doesn't make mistakes." I could probably manage to suit up, get in the game at QB and just chuck the ball to the sideline every play and "not make mistakes."

I think the ONLY argument that even remotely supports Brunell is that PERHAPS what we need is a QB who "doesn't make mistakes." Someone to hand the ball off to Portis, complete the occasional dink and dunk and simply not screw up.

Unfortunately that doesn't make a championship team. All the teams that have beenin consistent competition for the Super Bowl and consistent playoff contenders do NOT operate a system where the QB simply has to "not screw up."

If we're gonna have a glimmer of hope at making the playoffs, we need a QB who can lead, manage the offense, work with the team, and F-ING score.

Right now that's probably not Ramsey, and it sure as hell isn't Brunell.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I agree that Ramsey didn't do anything to earn the job in the preseason. I also agree that Brunell looked better in the preseason (albeit against backups).

HOWEVER, according to Joe Gibbs himself, the preseason was not supposed to be a competition between Ramsey and Brunell. [b]According to Joe Gibbs' statements from last season and this past offseason, Ramsey was going to be our starter; not possibly our starter, not probably our starter, but our starter.[/b] Basically, Gibbs went back on his word.[/QUOTE]

So despite a very shaky preseason by Ramsey and a very solid one by Brunell, Gibbs should just overlook that and stick by his word. For what? Word doesn't win football games.

Ramsey had his chance to take this job. He had the entire offseason of OTA's, minicamps and training camp. He then had the preseason to convince the team he could be the man. He did nothing to squash the concerns the coaches had about him. He's turning the ball over, he's indecisive, he just doesn't look like a QB that has a firm grasp of the offense, and for someone who's in year 2 of the system and has worked as the starter all offseason, his performance has been very subpar to say the least.

At this point I don't see any sort of arguement for Ramsey that makes sense. Ramsey has been shaky, Brunell has been solid. Looks like an easy choice to me. People want to say look at what Brunell did last year... well HELLO look what Ramsey has done THIS year, not much!

Like I said, I think the only mistake Gibbs made was sticking by Ramsey for so long this preseason. Don't get me wrong, I was behind the decision at the time. But looking back it's easy to see that it should have been a formal open competition for the job. But Gibbs did exactly what we wanted, he stuck by Ramsey and gave him every chance to claim the job. He simply didn't do it... how can that not be any more clear? Gibbs DID stick to his word, he gave Ramsey a fair shot to claim the job.

I'm sorry but a 65 QB rating with 4 INTs in a little over 6 quarters of work in the preseason is not going to win you a lot of support from your coaches, let alone a firm grip on the starting job. Then in 3 series of work against the Bears he coughs it up twice and throws another head scratcher of a pick.

Bottom line, Ramsey had his chance to claim the starting job. If you can honestly tell me he did enough to be the [u]unquestioned[/u] starter for this team, I'd really love to hear it.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

On Redskins.com, go to the roster. Ramsey's already been moved to 2nd string, but Antonio Brown is still listed as our starting PR/KR. I guess that's not important, but with all of this talk of turnovers leading to demotions, the guy who's t.o. is the only one that leads to points, gets to keep his job. Sounds right...

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=mheisig]If we're gonna have a glimmer of hope at making the playoffs, we need a QB who can lead, manage the offense, work with the team, and F-ING score.

Right now that's probably not Ramsey, and it sure as hell isn't Brunell.[/QUOTE]

Probably not Ramsey?? How about definitely not Ramsey, and the jury is still out on Brunell.

We've seen what Ramsey can do, how about we give Brunell a shot, people are writing him off based on last year.

You say history means something, well how about looking at Brunell's entire body of work and not just an injury plagued struggle with a new team and an outdated offense.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=BleedBurgundy]On Redskins.com, go to the roster. Ramsey's already been moved to 2nd string, but Antonio Brown is still listed as our starting PR/KR. I guess that's not important, but with all of this talk of turnovers leading to demotions, the guy who's t.o. is the only one that leads to points, gets to keep his job. Sounds right...[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't be surprised if Brown isn't returning this week, only thing is a formal announcement hasn't been made so that's why the depth chart still reads Brown.

Gibbs doesn't edit the depth chart on Redskins.com himself you know.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

I need to weigh in here.

At this point in his career, we all know what Ramsey is. There's no more time for him to develop, in my eyes, he is what he is at this point. And I think he's a tough guy, a good leader, someone the rest of the team responds to. But he's inconsistent. He shows flashes where he makes good throws, and has games where his throws are on the mark. But then he has games like this past weekend where he just flat out misses a WR and it gets intercepted. And he still holds the ball too long, and ends up fumbling on occasion. We can't have turnovers, that's how you lose football games. I'm a Brunell supporter at this point.

On the flipside, Brunell seems to be managing the game well. He has zip on his passes and I trust him to make better decisions. I think he'll show a lot of improvement over last year now that he'll be getting the reps in practice. I do get concerned that he's telegraphing his passes though, I see him staring receivers down. He's not perfect, he won't lead the league in passing, he won't make the pro bowl, he won't do anything special. But I don't think he'll turn it over as much as Ramsey does, and that's the bottom line.

It will shake out well for us, despite our emotional attachment to Ramsey. He'll be traded in the offseason for a 1st rounder because his cap number is so low. At that point, Campbell will at least be ready to be Brunell's backup. Hopefully he's ready to start.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=irish]Matty, we argued about whether Gibbs had faith in PR for about 2 days and your opening post contradicts everything you argued for in your posts 5 weeks ago. I guess you now see what I saw all along. Gibbs never had faith in PR but gave him a shot at the starting job anyway, and PR never did anything with that shot to give Gibbs any faith in him.[/QUOTE]

I believe that Gibbs gave Ramsey a fair shot to take the starting job and claim it as his own.

I think Gibbs wanted to have faith in Ramsey, but like you said Ramsey simply didn't hold up his end of the bargain.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

Actually Gibbs said that Santanna Moss might be returning kicks at sometime.

I requested on the Redskin.com thread to Dan Snyder (in his specific thread) that he consider seeing if Brian Mitchell could suit up and return kicks for us.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]So despite a very shaky preseason by Ramsey and a very solid one by Brunell, Gibbs should just overlook that and stick by his word. For what? Word doesn't win football games.

Ramsey had his chance to take this job. He had the entire offseason of OTA's, minicamps and training camp. He then had the preseason to convince the team he could be the man. He did nothing to squash the concerns the coaches had about him. He's turning the ball over, he's indecisive, he just doesn't look like a QB that has a firm grasp of the offense, and for someone who's in year 2 of the system and has worked as the starter all offseason, his performance has been very subpar to say the least.

At this point I don't see any sort of arguement for Ramsey that makes sense. Ramsey has been shaky, Brunell has been solid. Looks like an easy choice to me. People want to say look at what Brunell did last year... well HELLO look what Ramsey has done THIS year, not much!

Like I said, I think the only mistake Gibbs made was sticking by Ramsey for so long this preseason. Don't get me wrong, I was behind the decision at the time. But looking back it's easy to see that it should have been a formal open competition for the job. But Gibbs did exactly what we wanted, he stuck by Ramsey and gave him every chance to claim the job. He simply didn't do it... how can that not be any more clear? Gibbs DID stick to his word, he gave Ramsey a fair shot to claim the job.

I'm sorry but a 65 QB rating with 4 INTs in a little over 6 quarters of work in the preseason is not going to win you a lot of support from your coaches, let alone a firm grip on the starting job. Then in 3 series of work against the Bears he coughs it up twice and throws another head scratcher of a pick.

Bottom line, Ramsey had his chance to claim the starting job. If you can honestly tell me he did enough to be the [u]unquestioned[/u] starter for this team, I'd really love to hear it.[/QUOTE]

Matty, just after the game you said Ramsey should probably start and you didn't seem to indicate that it should be any other way. Gibbs didn't stick to his word since he said Ramsey was going to be the starter for 2005...he was for about 15 minutes. We can have a good debate about who should be the quarterback, but I can't see room for debate on Gibbs going back on his word (without parsing phrases in a Clinton-esque fashion).

I don't understand the "toss away Mark Brunell's 2004 performance" talk around here. Okay, let me get this straight.....forget about Mark Brunell's performance in 9 regular season games last year. Concentrate on his mediocre performance in three quarters of regular season play and four preseason games against backups?

What has Ramsey done this year? You're absolutely right in saying "NOT MUCH." He was in for all of fifteen minutes before the "loyal to a fault" Gibbs yanked him.

Look at the post-game poll in which the overwhelming majority of people were originally saying that Ramsey should be the starter. Ever since Gibbs announced that Brunell would be starting, people have "flip-flopped." I understand the faith in Gibbs, but I would like to see people stop bashing Ramsey and acting like Brunell is Peyton Manning and admit that they SOLELY changed their minds based on what Gibbs decided to do.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]what i don't get is everyone defending brunell keeps pretending last year doesn't matter, but somehow this preseason does...[/QUOTE]

I'm not saying last year doesn't matter, but to me right now is what really matters, and right now Brunell is the better QB.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]



It will shake out well for us, despite our emotional attachment to Ramsey. [B]He'll be traded in the offseason for a 1st rounder because his cap number is so low[/B]. At that point, Campbell will at least be ready to be Brunell's backup. Hopefully he's ready to start.[/QUOTE]


We'll be lucky to get a 3rd for him.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

I can't believe that we are talking about Campbell starting some games. :doh:

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Probably not Ramsey?? How about definitely not Ramsey, and the jury is still out on Brunell.

We've seen what Ramsey can do, how about we give Brunell a shot, people are writing him off based on last year.

You say history means something, well how about looking at Brunell's entire body of work and not just an injury plagued struggle with a new team and an outdated offense.[/QUOTE]

Ramsey isn't the one, agreed.

Brunell's entire body of work is mediocre at best. He's got a decent career passer rating of 83.9, but he's never scored more than 20 TDs in a season. The season he threw for the most yards (1996), he had 19 TDs and 20 INTs. Overall he's got 151 TDs and 92 INTs. That means that for every 1.6 touchdowns, he's lobbing it to the other team. Hardly mistake free.

Is Brunell the worst QB in the league? Of course not. He had some pretty good years in Jacksonville. Then they bounced him. All QBs have their streak - hell, look at Kurt Warner. Jacksonville dropped Brunell for a reason - Leftwich was better.

Brunell's stats last season are absolutely abysmal, his preseason was mediocre even against backups.

But hey, if the old guy can win games, that's fine with me. Put head-banging Gus Frerotte back in there if he can win games, I don't care.

Right now I have 0 faith in Brunell and his ability to lead this team to the Super Bowl, the playoffs, or even past .500. If he shows me something, I'll take it - so far I see nothing.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Matty, just after the game you said Ramsey should probably start and you didn't seem to indicate that it should be any other way. Gibbs didn't stick to his word since he said Ramsey was going to be the starter for 2005...he was for about 15 minutes. We can have a good debate about who should be the quarterback, but I can't see room for debate on Gibbs going back on his word (without parsing phrases in a Clinton-esque fashion).

I don't understand the "toss away Mark Brunell's 2004 performance" talk around here. What? Okay, let me get this straight.....forget about Mark Brunell's performance in 9 regular season games last year. Concentrate on his mediocre performance in three quarters of regular season play and four preseason games against backups?

What has Ramsey done this year? You're absolutely right in saying "NOT MUCH." He was in for all of fifteen minutes before the "loyal to a fault" Gibbs yanked him.

Look at the post-game poll in which the overwhelming majority of people were originally saying that Ramsey should be the starter. Ever since Gibbs announced that Brunell would be starting, people have "flip-flopped." I understand the faith in Gibbs, but I would like to see people stop bashing Ramsey and acting like Brunell is Peyton Manning and admit that they SOLELY changed their minds based on what Gibbs decided to do.[/QUOTE]

To a point I have flip-flopped.

I supported Gibbs' decision to stick by Ramsey, even though he was struggling I was thinking well there must be something that Gibbs sees in him to keep sticking with him. Maybe he's close to turning the corner.

Now it's obvious he isn't close to turning that corner. Gibbs has decided to pull the plug before things get ugly. He stuck by Brunell last year way too long and he's not going to repeat that.

Now I'm supporting Gibbs' decision to make the switch.

Looking at the big picture, and keeping emotion out of it, Brunell is the better option right now.

I don't know why there's this view that people can't change their minds.

Winning in the NFL and in life is all about adapting to change and making adjustments on the fly.

Sticking to a plan is great, but when circumstances dictate a change in plans, sticking to your plan just for the sake of sticking to it is not a smart thing to do.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

Hey guys,
What an interesting debate we are having here and it all stims from the fact that neither one of our QBs will step up and "make plays consistently". Yes study those words in quotes closely. Mark doesn't make plays, and Patrick doesn't make them consistently. Gibbs is going with the lesser of two evils at this point. I don't like Brunell... there I have said it. I would rather have J. Campbell in there if Ramsey can't play, but I understand Gibb's decision and believe it is probably a good one at this point. I would love to see Jason get the start in Week 4 against Seattle. I mean let's all face it, Mark is just holding the job until Jason is ready now that he has put Patrick on the bench. Word to Jason..... get ready, your time is coming very soon!

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

Anyone else wish we had taken a chance on Trent Dilfer instead of Heath Shuler.

Maybe he could have been the long term game manager that we needed and then we wouldnt have to worry about Mark Brunell and Patrick Ramsey.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

Guys,

I haven't posted in a while but I am torn on this issue. Naturally I'll support whoever Gibbs puts in there. I just don't see what everyone is basing Brunell's ability to "play not to lose is." Did we not try that last year and fail? Brunell played well against the second-string D in the preseason. Some people at the stadium seem to forget that about a year ago people wanted Brunell's head on a platter.

I was at the game and when Brunell came in throwing a grounder followed by a jump ball thrown so poorly that the defender almost couldn't not interfere, the I started to have my doubts. Brunell made a good throw or two sure but I think he got us the three FGs primarily by handing the ball to the RBs. And guess what? Our leading/only scorer is not out with an injured leg. I think the need to get some yardage/TDs has increased more than slightly.

Now that might work against the Bears, albeit only by 2 pts. Is it going to hold against Dallas? Kansas City? Hell, even the Giants are putting up 6 TDs.

I don't think we're going to know anything until Tuesday morning and Brunell having received most of the snaps in practice. As a Redskins fan I've learned to appreciate every win due to the infrequency of their occurence. That being said, this was the first time in a long time I left the stadium after a win very unimpressed. When putting a 36 y/o who got yanked last year is an improvement I think we are in trouble. Only time will tell though and as always when I'm doubting the 'Skins; I hope that I am incorrect.

Here's to hoping for a win in Dallas. Go 'Skins!

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897]Guys,

I haven't posted in a while but I am torn on this issue. Naturally I'll support whoever Gibbs puts in there. I just don't see what everyone is basing Brunell's ability to "play not to lose is." Did we not try that last year and fail? Brunell played well against the second-string D in the preseason. Some people at the stadium seem to forget that about a year ago people wanted Brunell's head on a platter.

I was at the game and when Brunell came in throwing a grounder followed by a jump ball thrown so poorly that the defender almost couldn't not interfere, the I started to have my doubts. Brunell made a good throw or two sure but I think he got us the three FGs primarily by handing the ball to the RBs. And guess what? Our leading/only scorer is not out with an injured leg. I think the need to get some yardage/TDs has increased more than slightly.

Now that might work against the Bears, albeit only by 2 pts. Is it going to hold against Dallas? Kansas City? Hell, even the Giants are putting up 6 TDs.

I don't think we're going to know anything until Tuesday morning and Brunell having received most of the snaps in practice. As a Redskins fan I've learned to appreciate every win due to the infrequency of their occurence. That being said, this was the first time in a long time I left the stadium after a win very unimpressed. When putting a 36 y/o who got yanked last year is an improvement I think we are in trouble. Only time will tell though and as always when I'm doubting the 'Skins; I hope that I am incorrect.

Here's to hoping for a win in Dallas. Go 'Skins![/QUOTE]
Thank you for clearly stating what I was too lazy to type.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Gmanc711]We'll be lucky to get a 3rd for him.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. AJ Feeley yielded a 2nd rounder. Ramsey's cap number will be low next year, there's no reason some team out there won't be willing to give up at least a 2nd rounder. I don't think a 1st is out of the question, a lot of people think all Ramsey needs is a change of scenery.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=VTSkins897]Guys,
I haven't posted in a while but I am torn on this issue. Naturally I'll support whoever Gibbs puts in there. [b]I just don't see what everyone is basing Brunell's ability to "play not to lose is." Did we not try that last year and fail?[/b] Brunell played well against the second-string D in the preseason. Some people at the stadium seem to forget that about a year ago people wanted Brunell's head on a platter.[/QUOTE]

Well, it's not last year. You'll note that Brunell was hurt last year during the Giants game (2nd game of the season). That hamstring injury made it hard for him to get much mustard on his throws. That explains why his passes have much more zip this year.

Also, the offensive line was dismal last year when Brunell was playing. They sure look a lot better now.

I think with his arm and legs back to 100%, and a better team around him, all the ingredients are there for him to make the same throws that Ramsey can make. Only difference is that Brunell is less likely to turn it over, seeing that he knows how to get rid of the ball before being sacked and fumbling.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]To a point I have flip-flopped.

I supported Gibbs' decision to stick by Ramsey, even though he was struggling I was thinking well there must be something that Gibbs sees in him to keep sticking with him. Maybe he's close to turning the corner.

Now it's obvious he isn't close to turning that corner. Gibbs has decided to pull the plug before things get ugly. He stuck by Brunell last year way too long and he's not going to repeat that.

Now I'm supporting Gibbs' decision to make the switch.

Looking at the big picture, and keeping emotion out of it, Brunell is the better option right now.

I don't know why there's this view that people can't change their minds.

Winning in the NFL and in life is all about adapting to change and making adjustments on the fly.

Sticking to a plan is great, but when circumstances dictate a change in plans, sticking to your plan just for the sake of sticking to it is not a smart thing to do.[/QUOTE]

the point is, Ramsey was clearly the better option last year, and Gibbs didn't take it. he saw something in Brunell too, he didn't turn any corner, but he stayed with him and it killed our season. that proved he was fallible, and is the only reason we're questioning him now. it's not emotion, it's *recent memory*.

10 games was too way too long last year but 19 minutes??

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

You know who Ramsey sort of reminds me of? Gus Frerotte.

The guy came in and showed flashes of being a starting quartback in this league. Ultimately, he made too many mistakes under pressure and started doubting his own talent and ability.

He bounced around and actually played well when given the opportunity. He kept bouncing around and finally has gotten an opportunity to be the man. I think he is going to surprise a lot of people this year. Also, there is something about being bounced around that strengthens the resolve of people with strong wills.

I think mentally, most QBs are going to go through some really difficult times in the NFL. How they deal with it will determine what kind of player they are. Ramsey whining for a trade like some schoolboy bitch is really pathetic. He knows how he played, he needs to suck it up and accept the fact that he is not ready yet.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

On Ramsey, the interceptions are quite frustrating. But I recognize interceptions are going to happen, and Brunell might not be much of an improvement in that department. But to me the difference is Brunell knows how to get rid of the ball. He has that internal clock in his head that tells him when a play is busted. He did a nice job of scrambling out of the pocket and throwing the ball away on Sunday. The interceptions are frustrating, but the fumbles at the hands of the pass rush are the most frustrating thing. You can't sit in the pocket and wait to get drilled. And since intentional grounding can only be called when you're in the tackle box, it sure would help if we had a QB who could actually get out of the tackle box to get rid of the ball.

Ramsey is a turnover waiting to happen and that's not going to change. He has great games occasionally for sure, but the turnovers and sacks are not worth it. Time for a change.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]the point is, Ramsey was clearly the better option last year, and Gibbs didn't take it. he saw something in Brunell too, he didn't turn any corner, but he stayed with him and it killed our season. that proved he was fallible, and is the only reason we're questioning him now. it's not emotion, it's *recent memory*.

10 games was too way too long last year but 19 minutes??[/QUOTE]

Those 19 minutes resulted in one interception on a badly thrown ball, and two fumbles. Luckily only one was recovered by the Bears.

In the NFL these days, you can't sit in the pocket and wait and wait and wait. In the NFL now, the pass rush is coming. Be it in the form of Jevon Kearse, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, or a host of blitzing LBs and safeties. Defenses bring the house nowadays. You can't sit and wait for it, you have to get rid of the ball. That has always been Ramsey's #1 problem, and we can't wait for that to change any longer. He should have shown progress by now.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

It's tempting to keep playing Ramsey because when he has time to throw he'll gash the defense. But no offensive line is perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. One fumble per game is too many, but two in 19 minutes?? The line must be drawn somewhere. The tone must be set: WE DON'T TOLERATE TURNOVERS ON THIS TEAM.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]It's tempting to keep playing Ramsey because when he has time to throw he'll gash the defense. But no offensive line is perfect and we shouldn't expect them to be. One fumble per game is too many, but two in 19 minutes?? The line must be drawn somewhere. The tone must be set: WE DON'T TOLERATE TURNOVERS ON THIS TEAM.[/QUOTE]

duante fumbles all the time, so does vick... ;) you're right about the turnovers though, we don't tolerate them... unless it brunell making them. he had bad fumbles last year.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]Those 19 minutes resulted in one interception on a badly thrown ball, and two fumbles. Luckily only one was recovered by the Bears.

In the NFL these days, you can't sit in the pocket and wait and wait and wait. In the NFL now, the pass rush is coming. Be it in the form of Jevon Kearse, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, or a host of blitzing LBs and safeties. Defenses bring the house nowadays. You can't sit and wait for it, you have to get rid of the ball. That has always been Ramsey's #1 problem, and we can't wait for that to change any longer. He should have shown progress by now.[/QUOTE]

yeah Ramsey waited way too long when he got clotheslined.??

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

I'm gonna keep this short and simple. This is how I feel about the whole Brunell/Ramsey situation. I know most of you won't agree, but hey this is why we're here to discuss the Skins.

Ramsey still isn't comfortable in the pocket. He still makes rookie mistakes. Granted he can get the ball downfield, but theres a risk with turning the ball over everytime he throws it. He still can't read defenses. At least Brunell will make smart decisions....and thats all you can ask for. We don't need Peyton Manning or Brett Favre or Tom Brady. We just need someone to help the offense move the ball. We have a solid o-line and a great running game. The defense as we all know....will do its job.

So I agree with Coach Gibbs on this one. Hats off to him for having the balls to doing it so quickly. I think he just got tired of all the turnovers.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]it's more than probable Gibbs just holds a great deal of pride in choosing his own team leader. Ramsey was always the red-headed stepchild, and this 20 minute "start" just proves he doesn't really want to build with him. as if Campbell wasn't proof enough.[/QUOTE]

Now THAT is just B.S. Gibbs inherited Joey T and made a fine QB out of him. Don't overanalyze this as a "personal" decision.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]duante fumbles all the time, so does vick... ;) you're right about the turnovers though, we don't tolerate them... unless it brunell making them. he had bad fumbles last year.[/QUOTE]

Brunell's fumbles last year were more a function of the horrible offensive line. The line couldn't block anyone at the beginning of the year. It wasn't like he held onto the ball forever and the pass rush eventually got to him. The line let the pass rush in and he just never had time to begin with. That's the difference, when the line gives Brunell time he doesn't make mistakes like that. Ramsey still has a tendency to do that, even when the line gives him enough time.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]yeah Ramsey waited way too long when he got clotheslined.??[/QUOTE]

I can't fault him for that one. You're right. Brunell would have gotten sacked there too and may have fumbled as well.

But the other one, where Ramsey just sat there and sat there and sat there until the Bears sacked him and forced the fumble, that's all Ramsey's fault. Lucky for him Jansen and Rabach jumped on it, but had the ball bounced another way it could have been Bears ball.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]duante fumbles all the time, so does vick... ;) you're right about the turnovers though, we don't tolerate them... unless it brunell making them. he had bad fumbles last year.[/QUOTE]

And how many Super Bowls or even NFC championships do they have between them?

Turnovers not only kill drives, they kill morale which can cost a game or even a season. You spend too much time just wondering "when" the next one will happen.

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=illdefined]the point is, Ramsey was clearly the better option last year, and Gibbs didn't take it. he saw something in Brunell too, he didn't turn any corner, but he stayed with him and it killed our season. that proved he was fallible, and is the only reason we're questioning him now. it's not emotion, it's *recent memory*.

10 games was too way too long last year but 19 minutes??[/QUOTE]

Do you really think his decision was based soley on the Chicago game?

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]I'm gonna keep this short and simple. This is how I feel about the whole Brunell/Ramsey situation. I know most of you won't agree, but hey this is why we're here to discuss the Skins.

Ramsey still isn't comfortable in the pocket. He still makes rookie mistakes. Granted he can get the ball downfield, but theres a risk with turning the ball over everytime he throws it. He still can't read defenses. At least Brunell will make smart decisions....and thats all you can ask for. We don't need Peyton Manning or Brett Favre or Tom Brady. We just need someone to help the offense move the ball. We have a solid o-line and a great running game. The defense as we all know....will do its job.

So I agree with Coach Gibbs on this one. Hats off to him for having the balls to doing it so quickly. I think he just got tired of all the turnovers.[/QUOTE]

That's why I've been trying to say all along. Let's make some room here on the Brunell Bandwagon for Redskins_P

Re: Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10]I can't fault him for that one. You're right. Brunell would have gotten sacked there too and may have fumbled as well.

But the other one, where Ramsey just sat there and sat there and sat there until the Bears sacked him and forced the fumble, that's all Ramsey's fault. Lucky for him Jansen and Rabach jumped on it, but had the ball bounced another way it could have been Bears ball.[/QUOTE]

so that one chance was all he deserved after last season? 7 minutes to catch his regular season rhythm? thats just not rational.

everyone has to agree this is just based on Gibbs' instinct at this point. the same instinct that was proven wrong last year. it's early in his first couple years of his comeback, he was wrong last season, he could be wrong again.