Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137614]PFF is garbage.[/quote]
Lol, likely response.

Don't agree with a metric or analysis? It must be garbage right?

Anyhow in a round about way PFF is kinda garbage now since their best content is available exclusively to NFL/NCAA professional organizations.

I guess the NFL doesn't know their metrics are garbage.

Anyhow letting Amerson go was a mistake based on his on the field performance. Of course it will be assumed that there was more to letting him go and it wasn't a mistake at the time...fans generally want to believe every move their organization makes is correct.

But based on how Amerson played we could have used him.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

also you need to compare systems. if you play in seattle you only play cover 2/3, so a good man corner like revis would basically be wasted there. from what i recall amerson was more of a zone guy, but walt harris also had a career year after leaving. d hall played much better for us after the raider cut him too, so it happens.

you can't assume someone's success elsewhere would translate here 1 for 1.

as yeah, because of injuries we could have used him. if culliver and breeland both play 16 games, he would have been on the bench most of the year.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137629]Lol, likely response.

Don't agree with a metric or analysis? It must be garbage right?

Anyhow in a round about way PFF is kinda garbage now since their best content is available exclusively to NFL/NCAA professional organizations.

I guess the NFL doesn't know their metrics are garbage.

Anyhow letting Amerson go was a mistake based on his on the field performance. Of course it will be assumed that there was more to letting him go and it wasn't a mistake at the time...fans generally want to believe every move their organization makes is correct.

But based on how Amerson played we could have used him.[/quote]

It's garbage because PFF doesn't put the time or game understanding into their analysis to give a grade that actually reflects game performance.

PFF is a bunch of guys who have every nfl player graded the day after a game and who don't know the plays called or the responsibilities of the players they're grading.

The mere fact alone that their grades are ready so quickly after the games tells me they don't put much time into their evaluation.

The perfect example to illustrate why PFF is garbage is from earlier this year when PFF gave Trent Williams a negative grade for the same game that Cooley said was the perfect example of what a left tackle should be.

Cooley went on raving about Trent from that game. He said high school and college coaches should show their players game film of Trent from the game as to how you dominate and make it look easy.

Any rating service that blows a grade of an entire game, with 40+ snaps is garbage and cannot be trusted.

Anytime there is a subjective grade, the individual grading is the single most important factor, that's why PFF isn't a metric at all.

Relying on PFF for analysis, is relying on some anonymous guy with supposed football acumen to tell you what happened in a game.

Could you get the same analysis on Reddit for free? Nobody knows, because we don't know who the analyst is.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137629]Lol, likely response.

Don't agree with a metric or analysis? It must be garbage right?

Anyhow in a round about way PFF is kinda garbage now since their best content is available exclusively to NFL/NCAA professional organizations.

I guess the NFL doesn't know their metrics are garbage.

Anyhow letting Amerson go was a mistake based on his on the field performance. Of course it will be assumed that there was more to letting him go and it wasn't a mistake at the time...fans generally want to believe every move their organization makes is correct.

But based on how Amerson played we could have used him.[/quote]

First, you can only make moves based on how a guy is playing for you. When Amerson was waived not a single one of us complained because he was playing like crap. To see him turn it around in Oakland is a complete surprise, but all we had to go on was that he was playing like crap for us, and we can't change an entire defensive system for one player.

Second, who has two thumbs and doesn't give a shit about how David Amerson is playing?

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137629]Lol, likely response.

Don't agree with a metric or analysis? It must be garbage right?

Anyhow in a round about way PFF is kinda garbage now since their best content is available exclusively to NFL/NCAA professional organizations.

I guess the NFL doesn't know their metrics are garbage.

[B]Anyhow letting Amerson go was a mistake based on his on the field performance[/B]. Of course it will be assumed that there was more to letting him go and it wasn't a mistake at the time...fans generally want to believe every move their organization makes is correct.

But based on how Amerson played we could have used him.[/quote]

Did you ignore the part where they said Amerson had one of the worst seasons in 2014? Let me refresh your memory:

"Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014"

When you combine that with the fact the coaches have access to how hard he worked in practice, how he looked on film in preseason and 2 games in the regular season, it's easy to conclude why they released him. They didn't feel he was worthy of a roster spot. It's very easy to sit back after the fact and say it was a bad decision, but it was the right decision at the time. Maybe the reason he's turned it around was because the change of scenery did him good. Maybe he realized getting cut 3 weeks into a season is not a good sign for his career.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137638]First, you can only make moves based on how a guy is playing for you. When Amerson was waived not a single one of us complained because he was playing like crap. To see him turn it around in Oakland is a complete surprise, but all we had to go on was that he was playing like crap for us, and we can't change an entire defensive system for one player.

[B]Second, who has two thumbs and doesn't give a shit about how David Amerson is playing?[/B][/quote]

Truth. Who cares about ex-Redskins? They have absolutely no bearing on how good this team is.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

From what you wrote above it seems like you only have a very cursory and uninformed understanding of what PFF does. This might help, although your mind is probably already made up...
[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/[/url]


How We Grade

Our approach to rating is thorough, one of a kind, and goes beyond the surface of the game.



Step 1

We grade. An analyst grades every single player and every single play on a scale of -2 to +2.


Step 2

We grade again. The initial grading is reviewed by a second analyst to ensure accuracy.


Step 3

We grade a third time. The second analyst’s grading is checked by a third analyst. You can never be too careful.


Step 4

We verify. Our grades are verified by the [B][U]Pro Coach Network [/U][/B]and their 400 years of combined NFL and college coaching experience.


Step 5

Advanced Normalization: The raw grades (as seen in our Premium Stats) are normalized to better account for the situation; this ranges from where the player lined up to the drop-back depth of the quarterback, to everything in between.


Step 6

We set the grade. Convert to 1-100 scale.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suffice it to say that the many NFL teams that [I][B]pay[/B][/I] for their service disagree with you.

Just because Cooley (who isn't infallible either) disagrees with 1 grade from 1 game (on a player who PFF grades as one of the best LT in the league) doesn't seem like a good reason to me to consider them garbage. Maybe Cooley should call up Howard Mudd (heard of him?) who works for PFF.


Anyhow....any comment about David? Or does he still sux because PFF is garbage?

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137638]First, you can only make moves based on how a guy is playing for you. When Amerson was waived not a single one of us complained because he was playing like crap. To see him turn it around in Oakland is a complete surprise, but all we had to go on was that he was playing like crap for us, and we can't change an entire defensive system for one player.[/quote]True, but Amerson won't be the first nor the last player to have a sophomore slump or a bad season. The question becomes whether or not the talent/ability suggest they might be able to come out of that slump and whether its worth it to give them the chance.
And since you mention it, I didn't think Amerson should have been cut.

[quote]Second, who has two thumbs and doesn't give a shit about how David Amerson is playing?[/quote]Very paradoxical.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

PFF is a good reference to be considered and weighed by any fan-atic. i dont like how every time i go on there, i cant find what i am looking for and seems like you to have to pay to see anythign worthwhile.

It does have known acknowledged faults.

1. it grades per play but if the graders dont know the play call, how can you really judge a play. what grade does each O line player get when leribeus was snapping the ball early and no one was ready? does trent get a -2 for that sack where he didnt move bc leribeus screwed up?

2. arbitrary. "So if a 0.5 was given for a good short pass, what exactly is a good short pass? The two touchdowns thrown by Aaron Rodgers to Randall Cobb for touchdowns Monday night vs the Chiefs should constitute as good short passes and maybe more because of the congestion that generally occurs in the red zone. Apparently not though, because PFF graded them out as non impact throws because they were simple speed outs that the QB was “expected to make.” The issue that I have with this is that if this is so easy, then why can’t so many other QBs score as consistently, and with as much ease, as Rodgers does in the red zone? Rodgers should absolutely deserve some credit for recognizing the situation, making pre-snap adjustments, and flinging it to Cobb in 0.3 seconds. Also, is PFF really trying to tell me that over 400 years of NFL and college coaching experience (see Step 4 above) can’t tell you that Aaron Rodgers had a phenomenal game yesterday?"

[url=http://paradimetime.com/the-issues-that-surround-pro-football-focus/]The Issues That Surround Pro Football Focus - Paradime Time Sports[/url]

3. rushed work. cooley brought this point up. how can they possibly effectively grade every player every play and have the grades out by monday or tuesday? cooley thinks they are rushing it.
------

bottom line imo - its not perfect but the guys at PFF are trying to enact objective grades for a subjective subject matter and i tip my hat to them. each person can give PFF grades what ever weight they want.

-----------------

amerson - [B]i think his attitude and personality was the opposite of what SM wants in his locker room.[/B] i always found amerson to be wanna-be male model celebrity first, football player second. amerson was suspended last year for being late or missing a practice. i read an article about amerson a few months ago where he admitted he wasnt taking things as serious as he should and being waived really woke him up.

amerson is soft. it sent a message to players in the locker room that its more than where you were drafted. i think some of the more die hard players probably liked the message.

eat-sleep-breathe-shit football 24/7/365 .. or go play for somebody like the raiders.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

where can i find "sacks allowed" stat?

Re: Amerson Waived
 

Good for Amerson, but seriously who cares

Re: Amerson Waived
 

Amerson waived- so I waved back.

Fresh air and change did him some good. Good for him

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[IMG]http://memecrunch.com/meme/19RDJ/yeah-so-if-we-could-just-skip-arguing-for-now-on-since-i-m-always-right/image.jpg[/IMG]

if my photo meme phase is annoying, im sorry ..

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137643]

Very paradoxical.[/quote]

Yet another point made in this thread that I don't care about. I think we're batting 1.000 here.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137642]Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

From what you wrote above it seems like you only have a very cursory and uninformed understanding of what PFF does. This might help, although your mind is probably already made up...
[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/how-we-grade/[/url]


How We Grade

Our approach to rating is thorough, one of a kind, and goes beyond the surface of the game.



Step 1

We grade. An analyst grades every single player and every single play on a scale of -2 to +2.


Step 2

We grade again. The initial grading is reviewed by a second analyst to ensure accuracy.


Step 3

We grade a third time. The second analyst’s grading is checked by a third analyst. You can never be too careful.


Step 4

We verify. Our grades are verified by the [B][U]Pro Coach Network [/U][/B]and their 400 years of combined NFL and college coaching experience.


Step 5

Advanced Normalization: The raw grades (as seen in our Premium Stats) are normalized to better account for the situation; this ranges from where the player lined up to the drop-back depth of the quarterback, to everything in between.


Step 6

We set the grade. Convert to 1-100 scale.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Suffice it to say that the many NFL teams that [I][B]pay[/B][/I] for their service disagree with you.

Just because Cooley (who isn't infallible either) disagrees with 1 grade from 1 game (on a player who PFF grades as one of the best LT in the league) doesn't seem like a good reason to me to consider them garbage. Maybe Cooley should call up Howard Mudd (heard of him?) who works for PFF.


Anyhow....any comment about David? Or does he still sux because PFF is garbage?[/quote]

That was perhaps Trent Williams' best game of the season. He didn't play well, he dominated and PFF gave him a negative grade.

With all those layers of redundancy, the analysis must take less than 5 seconds at each layer to get through so many players so quickly and produce a grossly incorrect grade on Trent.

If they were so wrong, despite all the safeguards about Trent, why should they be trusted regarding any player?

Cooley knows the plays, knows what responsibility each player has and actually spends time watching and rewatching the film. Until you can show me why his take isn't correct, I'm going with his knowledge and experience, over some anonymous guy(s) that churns out grades in record time every week. Especially, when it matches what I'm seeing on the DVR.

I don't like PFF because they were so wrong on Trent. I don't like QBR because of the Tebow/Rodgers incident.

If you think they are a credible source despite the huge error, that's fine with me.

I just thought that since my "PFF is garbage post" was typical, I would try to make an atypical post and explain.

If a Metric/Analysis can be so wrong once, it can be wrong anytime and the average fan (me) doesn't have the time to sift through how much of their product is BS.

Regarding Amerson, I don't care one way or the other how he is playing.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=over the mountain;1137647]amerson is soft. it sent a message to players in the locker room that its more than where you were drafted. i think some of the more die hard players probably liked the message.

eat-sleep-breathe-shit football 24/7/365 .. or go play for somebody like the raiders.[/quote]

Totally agree with the rest of your post, but this stood out.

Ditto.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137638]First, you can only make moves based on how a guy is playing for you. When Amerson was waived not a single one of us complained because he was playing like crap. To see him turn it around in Oakland is a complete surprise, but all we had to go on was that he was playing like crap for us, and we can't change an entire defensive system for one player.

Second, who has two thumbs and doesn't give a shit about how David Amerson is playing?[/quote]


Remember that time we let Carlos Rogers walk? He then turned around and had a career year in his 1 year deal he signed with San Fran. Directly after signing a larger contract, he went back to being utter shit that couldn't handle a pass?

Pepperidge Farm remembers.


Many of these guys (especially highly drafted players) have this sense of entitlement that they feel they should be handed starting jobs. The soon realize quickly their career is going to be over shortly if they don't actually play to their potential. Often times, it takes being cut for a person to get that main aspect about the NFL.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

I cant believe we cut Delbert Cowsette.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

I CAN'T Believe that Dallas Startz guy never panned out......

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Meks;1137678]I CAN'T Believe that Dallas Startz guy never panned out......[/quote]

Marcus Mason never got a fair shot. He earned the starting job.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137586]David Amerson tops PFF’s award list for Most Improved Player



Amerson was the Redskins’ second-round pick in 2013, and saw the field in every game during his rookie season. He struggled with consistency throughout the year, and finished with a relatively low coverage grade, which placed him 92nd out of 110 cornerbacks. Last season his coverage grade dropped even further, and he slid all the way down to 106th at his position. Amerson was released after Week 1 this season, and was subsequently picked up by the Raiders, where he’s been a completely different player ever since.

The former NC State standout posted a positive production grade in 2015, despite being targeted 104 times (sixth-most among NFL CBs). On those targets, he allowed just 58 completions and one touchdown. He tied for fifth overall with 13 passes defensed, and also picked off four passes. Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014; this season, that number has dropped to 62.7. His improvements have brought him up to an 83.4 overall grade, good for 15th out of all cornerbacks this season.[/quote]

[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/13/pro-pffs-most-improved-players-in-2015/[/url]

Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?

All he did was go from benched to leading the league in completion %, setting franchise records, leading 4th quarter comebacks and taking a team with a 30+ preseason power ranking to the playoffs. All with one of the crappiest running games in the league.

PFF is garbage actually.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137680][url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/13/pro-pffs-most-improved-players-in-2015/[/url]

Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?

All he did was go from benched to leading the league in completion %, setting franchise records, leading 4th quarter comebacks and taking a team with a 30+ preseason power ranking to the playoffs. All with one of the crappiest running games in the league.

PFF is garbage actually.[/quote]

It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

which teams are paying them? and how much? are they giving one guy in the brown's scouting department a $1/year subscription just so they can say that an nfl team actually uses them? they can't say, cause "secrets" right? so it's an unverified fact reported on by the self-interested.

outsiders does a better job, and draftscout does an even better job (but they don't do advanced metrics, they mainly grade/rank college players).

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=That Guy;1137685]which teams are paying them? and how much? are they giving one guy in the brown's scouting department a $1/year subscription just so they can say that an nfl team actually uses them? they can't say, cause "secrets" right? so it's an unverified fact reported on by the self-interested.

outsiders does a better job, and draftscout does an even better job (but they don't do advanced metrics, they mainly grade/rank college players).[/quote]

Oh yeah outsiders is great, different than profootball focus, but they do a great job.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Chico23231;1137683]It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.[/quote]

PFF is garbage.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Meks;1137678]I CAN'T Believe that Dallas Startz guy never panned out......[/quote]

i wanted mason crosby.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Chico23231;1137683]It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.[/quote]I used to love PFF. Prior to this year if you paid for the premium account [I][B]all[/B][/I] their content was available and it was awesome. They are the closet thing you can get to team grades and they had other 'signature stats' like: tackling efficiency, pass rush productivity, QB in focus, SS/FS splits then game situation stats that detailed tendencies based on formations/personnel. They've gone 'big time' now and save their more meaningful data for NFL/NCAA only. Many former subscribers didn't re-up this year and PFF received an influx of e-mail form their previous subscribers decrying their new format. If you like their content now its nothing compared to what it used to be.

It seems like several people in this thread wear their ignorance of PFF as a badge of honor and I've never understood that (in regards to anything really).

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137680]Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?[/quote]They aren't grading team performance they are grading individual performance.

This post seems like you are saying because Kirk wasn't on their most improved list therefore they're garbage?

Okay.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=That Guy;1137685]which teams are paying them? and how much? are they giving one guy in the brown's scouting department a $1/year subscription just so they can say that an nfl team actually uses them? they can't say, cause "secrets" right? so it's an unverified fact reported on by the self-interested.[/quote]I don't know which teams use them nor how much it costs them. But I have no reason to doubt their claim that 19 NFL teams use their service. If that were a false claim I'm sure they would be held accountable. Also, I'm pretty sure they would gladly list which NFL teams use them but I would guess it more a matter of non-disclosure/confidentially then 'cuz secrets'. But again, to each their own.

Here's is a Gunther Cunningham anyhow...

[B][COLOR="SeaGreen"].....Cunningham still records some of the same statistics on his own, including time to throw or defensive targets (mostly out of habit), but he and defensive quality control coach Matt Raich lean on Pro Football Focus to shave time off their research. Before the Cowboys game, for instance, it took them less than 30 minutes to pull up all the shotgun plays Dallas had used during its previous five games. They were able to discern the personnel groups, in part, by looking at the play diagrams and corresponding video footage. “As soon as you get an idea what the team is doing, it helps with guys like Ndamukong Suh and Ezekiel Ansah, because you can say, when they’re in shotgun, pin your ears back and go get ’em,” Cunningham says. “It’s not guesswork.” If the Lions were playing New England, Cunningham adds, he could quickly sort the PFF database for all offensive plays with unbalanced lines to help prepare for the Patriots’ eligible/ineligible gambit......

....Cunningham agrees with some of Zimmer’s criticism. Even after spending five seasons as the Lions’ defensive coordinator, Cunningham found it initially difficult to wrap his head around what everyone is supposed to be doing in Teryl Austin’s new system. So PFF analysts grading players without knowing the defensive call is one area, he says, “where they are a little bit short.” But Cunningham has also seen the reverse: coaches grading favorite players more easily, or giving themselves too much credit for placing a player in the correct position when he makes a play. When one Lions player raised a stink about how Pro Football Focus graded him this season, Cunningham checked the PFF grades against his own analysis. “I wanted so much to tell him,” Cunningham says, “that they were right on the money.” [/COLOR][/B]

[quote]outsiders does a better job, and draftscout does an even better job (but they don't do advanced metrics, they mainly grade/rank college players).[/quote]I like Football Outsiders and nfldraftscout/cbs too but they offer different services then PFF.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137902]They aren't grading team performance they are grading individual performance.

This post seems like you are saying because Kirk wasn't on their most improved list therefore they're garbage?

Okay.[/quote]

You left the part out where I mentioned all of Kirk's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments that supported how much he improved INDIVIDUALLY.

How is Kirk not on any list for the most improved player?

Blake Bortles still sucks donkey balls:

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015[/url]

It was just one example of why PFF is garbage.

Would love for Mudd or whoever botched the grade on Trent so badly, to sit down and go through that game play by play with Cooley and explain why they graded him the way they did.

The quote you cite from Gunther Cunningham actually addresses the same criticism of PFF on this thread. He says player grading is where they fall short and uses the service for stats.

The issue is how can they grade a player when they don't know the play or the players' responsibility. Umm, . In fairness, he does mention the grading of one player where he did agree with PFF.

They screwed Trent's grade up big time and nobody knows if it's an anomaly or a crappy product because nobody knows:
1. who graded it,
2. the standard it was graded by,
3. the bias of the grader
4. how quickly the grade was churned out,
5. how many times the play was watched,
6. or the grader's knowledge of Trent's responsibility on a given play.

It's not shocking that a person in a position of talent evaluation would rely on an outside service for stats, I seriously doubt that any GM or coach relies on PFF for grading a game performance. It's just common sense, why would they rely on strangers who don't know what the responsibilities are?

Do these other 19 nfl teams use PFF for grades or, like Cunningham, for stats?

No way they use their grades, just want to see your response.

I hope Blake Bortles gets some money out of this sham.

EDIT:

Please let me clarify. PFF's player grades are garbage. I honestly have no idea about their stats.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137922]You left the part out where I mentioned all of Kirk's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments that supported how much he improved INDIVIDUALLY.

How is Kirk not on any list for the most improved player?[/quote]Did you every think that maybe Kirk graded out better then Blake last year? Therefore although Blake, still rated below Kirk btw, improved more from his rating last year to this year?


[quote]Would love for Mudd or whoever botched the grade on Trent so badly, to sit down and go through that game play by play with Cooley and explain why they graded him the way they did.[/quote]The infallible Chris Cooley had a different grade for Trent in some game (btw what game are you even talking about? and what was the grade that has you in a fit?) therefore Chris must be right, right?

According to Pro Football Focus, the 2016 Pro Bowler was ranked as the [B][U]sixth-best left tackle in the NFL[/U][/B], and [U][B]the eighth-best overall[/B][/U]. Williams allowed just 19 total quarterback pressures and two total sacks in his 14 games.

But again, because of some unnamed game and unnamed grade its garbage, lol.

[quote]The quote you cite from Gunther Cunningham actually addresses the same criticism of PFF on this thread. He says player grading is where they fall short and uses the service for stats.[/quote]Lol, that is not what he said. (Did you even read the article?) He referenced specifically to grading exotic schemes defensive blitz scheme where assignments are unknown. And we're not talking about criticism because obviously they have several, any stat has weaknesses. The argument isn't over whether or not PFF has flaws, of course it does, the argument is over whether or not 'its garbage' or should be discounted out of hand.



[quote]The issue is how can they grade a player when they don't know the play or the players' responsibility. Umm, . In fairness, he does mention the grading of one player where he did agree with PFF.[/quote]Lol, c'mon really? grading of one player?

[quote][COLOR="Green"]Cunningham is speaking over the phone to The MMQB, but he sends a picture of his oversized computer screens, on which he’s using PFF’s play analysis tool to sort defensive plays based on the Cowboys’ offensive formations

Cunningham still records some of the same statistics on his own, including time to throw or defensive targets (mostly out of habit), but he and defensive quality control coach Matt Raich lean on Pro Football Focus to shave time off their research.
Before the Cowboys game, for instance, it took them less than 30 minutes to pull up all the shotgun plays Dallas had used during its previous five games. They were able to discern the personnel groups, in part, by looking at the play diagrams and corresponding video footage.“As soon as you get an idea what the team is doing, it helps with guys like Ndamukong Suh and Ezekiel Ansah, because you can say, when they’re in shotgun, pin your ears back and go get ’em,” Cunningham says. “It’s not guesswork.” If the Lions were playing New England, Cunningham adds, he could quickly sort the PFF database for all offensive plays with unbalanced lines to help prepare for the Patriots’ eligible/ineligible gambit[/COLOR][/quote].

[quote]They screwed Trent's grade up big time[/quote]You keep saying this but where is your proof? Based on what? How did they screw up Trent's grade?
Again this is their overall on Trent:
According to Pro Football Focus, the 2016 Pro Bowler was ranked as the [B][U]sixth-best left tackle in the NFL[/U][/B], and [U][B]the eighth-best overall[/B][/U]. Williams allowed just 19 total quarterback pressures and two total sacks in his 14 games.


[quote]1. who graded it,
2. the standard it was graded by,
3. the bias of the grader
4. how quickly the grade was churned out,
5. how many times the play was watched,
6. or the grader's knowledge of Trent's responsibility on a given play.[/quote]The information on their process is out there, you just choose to plead ignorance to their process.

[quote]It's not shocking that a person in a position of talent evaluation would rely on an outside service for stats, I seriously doubt that any GM or coach relies on PFF for grading a game performance. It's just common sense, why would they rely on strangers who don't know what the responsibilities are?[/quote]Who said they rely on PFF? No one.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

Anyhow its all good.

I just find it amusing that some people consider PFF garbage at the same time their content is gaining more and more credibility and being used by more teams NFL and college.

I'm out, PFF garbage! rah, rah!

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[url=http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/redskinsblog/redskins-grades-trent-williams-does-well-bot-surprises-galore-pff]Redskins grades: Trent Williams does well, but surprises galore from Pro Football Focus | CSN Mid-Atlantic[/url]

pretty sure it was the skins-eagles game.

PFF is what it is. Seems like a really detailed, easy to navigate data base. The raw detailed stats speak for themselves. The grades - people can take them or leave them as they choose.

if a person wants to count or discount PFF grades, that is their choice and you cant change their mind anyway.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

I don't know how you guys manage to make football nerdy, but congratulations, you did it.

Now STFU already with this pro football focus bullshit. Amerson got better, so what.

Kirk is good, we know this.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137926]
The infallible Chris Cooley had a different grade for Trent in some game (btw what game are you even talking about? and what was the grade that has you in a fit?) therefore Chris must be right, right?
.[/quote]

CC might as well be dating sean mcvay. he knows the assignments and the offense. if you've listened to his breakdowns (and they post pics of plays to follow along with the analysis) you'd know that. no offence, but i'd trust his grade as someone that talks to the OC every week and watches 20 hours of skins tape a week over some stranger that has to churn out 200+ grades by monday morning.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=30gut;1137927]Anyhow its all good.

I just find it amusing that some people consider PFF garbage at the same time their content is gaining more and more credibility and being used by more teams NFL and college.

I'm out, PFF garbage! rah, rah![/quote]

First, the obvious thing to me is football is more of a team sport than any other. It's one play at a time and the success is very dependent on everyone working together. Individual grading within that box is very tough. Pff is certainly flawed, as is other sites who grade. Scheme, players health, other players ability...intangibles such as commitment, leadership, etc.
it's not just science...its art too.

I'll trust my eyes over anything.

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=Schneed10;1137932]I don't know how you guys manage to make football nerdy, but congratulations, you did it.

Now STFU already with this pro football focus bullshit. Amerson got better, so what.

Kirk is good, we know this.[/quote]

If it was QBR could we sit at the cool table?

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137954]If it was QBR could we sit at the cool table?[/quote]

[YT]hTOKJTRHMdw[/YT]

Re: Amerson Waived
 

[quote=DYoungJelly;1137680][url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/13/pro-pffs-most-improved-players-in-2015/[/url]

Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?

All he did was go from benched to leading the league in completion %, setting franchise records, leading 4th quarter comebacks and taking a team with a 30+ preseason power ranking to the playoffs. All with one of the crappiest running games in the league.

PFF is garbage actually.[/quote]

[url=http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/redskinsblog/cousins-co-recipient-pfwa-most-improved-player]Cousins co-recipient of PFWA most improved player | CSN Mid-Atlantic[/url]

I guess Kirk Cousins and Josh Norman are ok, but I mean they don't grade out like David Amerson or Blake Bortles.

PFF is garbage, lol
 

[url]https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/20/seniorbowl-pff-forms-partnership-with-reeses-senior-bowl/[/url]

PFF FORMS PARTNERSHIP WITH REESE’S SENIOR BOWL
“As we built our rosters for the game, we have found their information to be helpful in separating several players from a statistical standpoint,” said Reese’s Senior Bowl Executive Director Phil Savage.

This year, PFF will also have a team of its top analysts in Mobile to break down player performance during Reese’s Senior Bowl practices. They will be using that data, as well as their data from the 2014 and 2015 FBS seasons, to create a series of truly unique scouting profiles on Reese’s Senior Bowl players to be published on their website in the weeks leading up to April’s NFL draft.