Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]That's funny, because if I were gonna knock Ramsey, that would be exactly what I would say.[/QUOTE]
You beat me to it with that.. I disagree with both draft picks so let me say that up front.. Here's my assumption of what the FO was thinking.. They didn't draft Ramsey (at least Gibbs didn't, that was a Vinny/Danny thing) so there's no true allegiance there. Let's be 100% frank about Ramsey so far, he has not been a leader, consistent or productive. Plus in today's NFL, other than Peyton Manning, a QB has to be mobile, Ramsey is a statue. He is below .500, has more INT than TD and going into his 4th year has not shown that he has the makings of an elite QB. In Campbell, there is a guy who is the son of a football coach (understanding of the game may pick things up quickly), a 4 year starter in the SEC (31 wins with 4 different offensive systems and a 45-24 TD/INT ratio), mobile QB with an arm who's strength is comparable to Ramsey's.. I don't like the pick, but I understand..

What I dislike more is the Rogers pick.. Yes we needed a corner, but let's be honest again, Smoot is a GOOD corner, by no means was he great or elite.. Replacing him was neccessary but not imperative at that point in the draft. With the problems offensively, especially in the passing game we had in '04, with Mike Williams on the board we made a HUGE error in my opinion by not taking him. I think and hope Rogers will be decent, but I think the draft last year, this year and even next year will leave a long resounding negative effect on the Skins..

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=SantanaMan]I never once mentioned the Auburn fan saying ANYTHING about Jason Campbell, in fact I mentioned him only saying about Carlos Rogers.[/QUOTE]

My bad, man. I didn't pay enough attention to the post. Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

Two points about this pick

#1
I don't get it. We traded up to take a QB who might take 2-3 years before he's ready?? Couldn't we have gotten a much better value with this pick? Someone who could contribute right away??

#2
I don't like it. We might as well just dump Ramsey now, because ever since Gibbs has been here he's been giving strong signals to PR that he's not his man. First he brings in a vet, and now uses a high pick on a QB.

I liked the Rogers pick at #9, but this pick has me scratching my head.

Campbell sounds like a great prospect, but we really reached here and didn't fill much of a need.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]has more INT than TD and going into his 4th year[/QUOTE]

Ramsey has 33 career TD's vs. 28 INT's

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain] Let's be 100% frank about Ramsey so far, he has not been a leader, consistent or productive. Plus in today's NFL, other than Peyton Manning, a QB has to be mobile, Ramsey is a statue. He is below .500, has more INT than TD and going into his 4th year has not shown that he has the makings of an elite QB. [/QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree with your evaluation of Ramsey more. I think he does hold it too long and occasionally throws it up, but I will be frank, I think he can be a Pro Bowler sooner rather than later. As for him having more picks than TD's that's wrong. Career: 33 TD, 28 INT. Last year was the only season he had more picks than TD's and that was only 10 to 11. I believe he showed he was a leader in his first season when Spurrier put him in games late and he lead them back. I remember a Giants game that sold me on him when he almost lead them back to a win if not for a D. McCants fumble. He's not mobile, though, you're right. However, his completion percentage for his career is: 55.6%, has improved every year and last year was 62.1%.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Two points about this pick

#1
I don't get it. We traded up to take a QB who might take 2-3 years before he's ready?? Couldn't we have gotten a much better value with this pick? Someone who could contribute right away??

#2
I don't like it. We might as well just dump Ramsey now, because ever since Gibbs has been here he's been giving strong signals to PR that he's not his man. First he brings in a vet, and now uses a high pick on a QB.

I liked the Rogers pick at #9, but this pick has me scratching my head.

Campbell sounds like a great prospect, but we really reached here and didn't fill much of a need.[/QUOTE]

In addition, to me, it seems like we're well on our way to competing for the #1 pick next season, which we won't have, but that could have put us in position for Lienart. We would have had a better line on Ramsey and then they would have actually known if they needed a Qb.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

As long as the line gives Ramsey some time I think he is a decent pocket passer.......
we will have a healthy Jansen back and a better center, Ramsey's performance should improve.........puzzlement why Gibbs seems impatient and drafts Campbell..........

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=monk81]As long as the line gives Ramsey some time I think he is a decent pocket passer.......
we will have a healthy Jansen back and a better center, Ramsey's performance should improve.........puzzlement why Gibbs seems impatient and drafts Campbell..........[/QUOTE]
Campbell wasn't drafted to start for at least a couple years. How is that impatient?

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I couldn't disagree with your evaluation of Ramsey more. I think he does hold it too long and occasionally throws it up, but I will be frank, I think he can be a Pro Bowler sooner rather than later. As for him having more picks than TD's that's wrong. Career: 33 TD, 28 INT. Last year was the only season he had more picks than TD's and that was only 10 to 11. I believe he showed he was a leader in his first season when Spurrier put him in games late and he lead them back. I remember a Giants game that sold me on him when he almost lead them back to a win if not for a D. McCants fumble. He's not mobile, though, you're right. However, his completion percentage for his career is: 55.6%, has improved every year and last year was 62.1%.[/QUOTE]

*** Let me preface this by saying I am not a Ramsey-bashing Zach Mills clone, I don't like the pick, but I am guessing as to why the FO made the pick ***
My bad on the TD/INT #, I misread it when I was looking.. Here's why I say he's not a leader. He has guts physically, no doubt, but mentally he folded up his tent last pre-season when Brunell came in.. He said later in the season that he didn't deal with it well mentally. Yes, he's young, but you want your LEADER to step up and defeat a challenge, not have to wait until the guy who beat you out fails miserably before you get in.. How many come from behind wins does he have? Spurrier and Gibbs put him in games late and he made them exciting, but how many games did he win in that situation. That's how greatness develops.. 55.6% completion is not good.. His 62.1% last year was 12th in the league, career wise he is on par with Kyle Boller did last year.. From a Gibbs perspective (didn't scout him, didn't draft him) what from what you have seen leads you to beleive that he is ready to be more than the game manager he was at the end of the year last year?

Re: Jason Campbell
 

A wasted first round

Re: Jason Campbell
 

Gibbs didn't draft Theisman either...granted that was a different situation in a different time, but I'm sick of that excuse. Ramsey is (still) a good QB with a lot of potential, and this season it the time for him to either step up and reach that potential, or be replaced. I think he can do it, but of course that remains to be seen.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

I think his arm is absolutely electric and I think he is a very smart QB. I agree that he looked terrible when Brunell came in, but take into account that it was a new system, he was coming off of surgery and he, supposedly, did ask to be traded. I think he has that spark that will allow him to be great. As for him managing the game at the end of last year, that's all Gibbs offense allowed for last year. You can't expect much more. The offense suffocated everyone on the team last season. I think Joe Gibbs held this team hostage last season with his playcalling and it broke our back.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]Campbell wasn't drafted to start for at least a couple years. How is that impatient?[/QUOTE]

But SkinsRock just like the spin last year when Gibbs christened Burnell the starter and when he failed, he put in Ramsey.......couldnt the same thing happen with Ramsey...... I think Campbell will move to the 2nd QB in the rotation, with Burnell moving to 3rd spot after training camp. If Ramsey comes in and has bad games, Gibbs has pressure to win games so will be forced to put in Campbell, who isn't ready.........doomed to fail!!!! This pick just speaks volumes of Gibbs not being satisified and wanting to move Ramsey....If we had a grizzled veteran starting (ie the Packers for example) you'd want to groom a young QB, but we have a young QB starting......why pick yet another young QB to back up your current young QB unless you plan to play him...........

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=jdlea]I think his arm is absolutely electric and I think he is a very smart QB. I agree that he looked terrible when Brunell came in, but take into account that it was a new system, he was coming off of surgery and he, supposedly, did ask to be traded. I think he has that spark that will allow him to be great. As for him managing the game at the end of last year, that's all Gibbs offense allowed for last year. You can't expect much more. The offense suffocated everyone on the team last season. I think Joe Gibbs held this team hostage last season with his playcalling and it broke our back.[/QUOTE]
Ironically, I agree with most of what you've said.. I guess we won't see if Gibbs allows him to be more than a game manager until the bullets start flying, but his playcalling screamed mistrust of both QBs.. I don't think the excuses about the competition last year hold much water.. Brunell was also in a new system, coming off an injury and had to adjust to a whole new team and still waxed Ramsey's ass.. It all boils down to trust, Gibbs still doesn't trust Ramsey as his QB to lead the team to the playoffs and Super Bowl..

Re: Jason Campbell
 

I think this was a smart pick for us. I dont think Ramsey is the answer for our team. He looked good two years ago, but I think Spurrier ruined him. He stands in the pocket with happy feet. He has no ability to step outside the pocket so he gets sacked all the time. And the bottom line is he doesnt make things happen. I will be the first to blame Gibbs for our horrible play calling last year. But Ramsey did nothign to impress me. He didnt look downfield, he didnt always make his throws. He isnt a leader of our team. Frankly, he looks scared when hes in the game in my opinion.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

Even Jansen said on ESPN today how at the beginning of the year, it was a 1992 offense, and they have done much to improve and update it....which I think we saw some of towards the end of last season.
Gibbs has had a year to "catch up" with the rest of the league, so now the pressure is really on him too.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]Even Jansen said on ESPN today how at the beginning of the year, it was a 1992 offense, and they have done much to improve and update it....which I think we saw some of towards the end of last season.
Gibbs has had a year to "catch up" with the rest of the league, so now the pressure is really on him too.[/QUOTE]
He also said that they needed a big, move the chains, red zone target WR.. Hmm, who was on the board that met that exact description and that we don't have anyone similar on our roster?

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]He also said that they needed a big, move the chains, red zone target WR.. Hmm, who was on the board that met that exact description and that we don't have anyone similar on our roster?[/QUOTE]
Darnerien McCants is on the roster.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

Campbell gives us another weapon that we haven't had since Doug Williams. Campbell can move. He is a very mobile qb with an amazing arm. One reason he had to hold on to the ball is cause he had no recievers at Auburn and had to wait for them to get open. I have never been on the Ramsey bandwagon and will not be wether he takes to the playoffs or not. He is way to inconsistent with his play and will make more head scratching decisions then good ones. Our recieving core is still solid without Williams. We have Moss, Patten, Jacobs who showed tremendous upside last year, Thrash. Thats pretty solid to me. I feel Campbell brings a huge upgrade to the position. Just hope everyone that did not want Campbell here doesn't welcome him in. He will be a great qb for us.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]Darnerien McCants is on the roster.[/QUOTE]
Would you equate McCants to what Williams projects to be?

Re: Jason Campbell
 

rogers said that jacobs was the hardest receiver he ever had to cover in college. And bailey said in jacobs first training camp that he was the best wr on our team. Dotn be surprised if hes our number two receiver this year. He needs to be given a chance to start.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Would you equate McCants to what Williams projects to be?[/QUOTE]
No, but he is a big, move the chains, red zone target. If they would only let him on the field.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

We did not need to waste our 1st round pick on Campbell. We could have traded for a 2nd round pick and got him easily. Look who picked after us. Seattle, Atlanta, SD, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Philly, and NE. None of these teams would have picked up Campbell. We could have picked up Heath Miller!! I think he would have helped our offense a lot more now and in the future than Campbell.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Kevikazi]We did not need to waste our 1st round pick on Campbell. We could have traded for a 2nd round pick and got him easily. Look who picked after us. Seattle, Atlanta, SD, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Philly, and NE. None of these teams would have picked up Campbell. We could have picked up Heath Miller!! I think he would have helped our offense a lot more now and in the future than Campbell.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they [I]tried [/I] to trade down but didn't have any takers...no one knows but the FO I guess...

Re: Jason Campbell
 

Perhaps in 2-3 years we'll be applauding this selection, right now it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Only time will tell.

Perhaps Ramsey isn't the answer.

Perhaps this selection was more of a move directed towards Brunell's sharp decline and the likelihood he won't be here after next season rather than a shot at Ramsey.

It's all in Ramsey's hands now. He can step up to the pressure and competition and shine, or he could wilt under the same pressure and competition.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=SkinsRock]Maybe they [i]tried [/i] to trade down but didn't have any takers...no one knows but the FO I guess...[/QUOTE]

Judging by the length of the first round, seems like a lot of teams were trying to move down, problem was there wasn't anybody on the board that excited anyone enough to move up.

A lot of teams were talking, nobody wanted any action though.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Perhaps in 2-3 years we'll be applauding this selection, right now it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Only time will tell.

Perhaps Ramsey isn't the answer.

Perhaps this selection was more of a move directed towards Brunell's sharp decline and the likelihood he won't be here after next season rather than a shot at Ramsey.

It's all in Ramsey's hands now. He can step up to the pressure and competition and shine, or he could wilt under the same pressure and competition.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that thought. Maybe its more of a move to help out if Brunell really has lost it(he has).

I really dont think Gibbs will start him this year unless there are some broken bones. So in the long term this was a good call. Plus he is most likely going to take over after Ramsey leaves.

What does this mean for Timmy Hasselbeck?

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=drew54]
What does this mean for Timmy Hasselbeck?[/QUOTE]


It has got to mean he is off the roster. Which I find a shame because I think he could be a servicable backup.
Mark B is the one on the roster that is a blackhole he has never shown me much.


I wonder what Campell thinks about going to a team that always seems in some sort of chaos and hasn't developed or had a decent QB in a dozen years.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

dont compare campbell to culpepper, brooks, mcnair and ... just because he is black.

ramsey is gone next year(i believe his contract is up). if ramsey plays great, we cant afford to keep him and ramsey probably hates the organization. if ramsey bombs, he will just go on to another team.
either way, he is gone after next year.

the best we can hope for is a good ramsey year, then we put the transition or franchise tag on him and we get back a #1 pick for him.

also, we should trade gardner and hasselbeck for any picks. we dont need hasselbeck this year and its time to move on with gardner(even though i like him :( )

Re: Do you approve of the Jason Campbell pick?
 

It won't help the cause this year, but the kid has the tools to be molded by a qb coach who had a somewhat similarly talented qb recently(musgrave-leftwich). Ramsey will be the qb this year, but if Cambell makes good progress over the next 15 monthes or so, it could make the future choice of the starting qb a bit of a mystery.

If this doesn't pan out, this could turn into one of the skins worst draft decisions ever cuz of all the picks used to bring him into the fold.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]I think this was a smart pick for us. I dont think Ramsey is the answer for our team. He looked good two years ago, but I think Spurrier ruined him. He stands in the pocket with happy feet. He has no ability to step outside the pocket so he gets sacked all the time. And the bottom line is he doesnt make things happen. I will be the first to blame Gibbs for our horrible play calling last year. But Ramsey did nothign to impress me. He didnt look downfield, he didnt always make his throws. He isnt a leader of our team. Frankly, he looks scared when hes in the game in my opinion.[/QUOTE]


SC, anybody that we would have put back there would have looked scared, that's what happens when no one is open downfield and the opposing defense knows what your running.

We also know Gibbs doesn't think that way because if he did Ramsey wouldn't be the starter this season, Gibbs said this is a value pick not a need pick, which makes it even more ridiculous.

Re: Jason Campbell
 

[QUOTE=skin4Life28]Campbell gives us another weapon that we haven't had since Doug Williams. Campbell can move. He is a very mobile qb with an amazing arm. One reason he had to hold on to the ball is cause he had no recievers at Auburn and had to wait for them to get open. I have never been on the Ramsey bandwagon and will not be wether he takes to the playoffs or not. He is way to inconsistent with his play and will make more head scratching decisions then good ones. Our recieving core is still solid without Williams. We have Moss, Patten, Jacobs who showed tremendous upside last year, Thrash. Thats pretty solid to me. I feel Campbell brings a huge upgrade to the position. Just hope everyone that did not want Campbell here doesn't welcome him in. He will be a great qb for us.[/QUOTE]


What on earth are you talking about S4L? Williams wasen't remotly a mobile QB when we had him, in fact he replaced the best athlete we had at QB in 40 years in Jay Schroeder, Schroeder ran like a deer, and had an arm that would rival Elway. Campbell is not great athletically, he has decent mobility and a good arm not great.

I am glad you think he will be a great QB for us, cause he wasen't a great QB for Auburn, but once the game speeds up and all the players are twice as good as what he's seen in college, and the seperation for recievers is cut in half, that should really bring out the greatness in him. I guess when he consistantly hold's the ball to long in college and throws the ball up for grab's far to much that will all vanish once he has elite competition in front of him?
This pick was plain and simple an absolute JOKE!

Re: Do you approve of the Jason Campbell pick?
 

I can't vote yes or no. I can easily justify the pick to myself and support my team's decision, but I don't have all the facts. Its almost like discussing the Iraqi War. Everyone has all the opinions, but no one has all the facts.

I'm comfortable with bringing him in, I just dont know if our first rounder next year will be worth it, but who knows, maybe this kid is the next McNabb. boy that'd be nice

We need to document the yeh's vs. the ney's concerning Campbell
 

I wish we could archive all the negative / postive comments on Campbell to bring up again in a couple of years. When he's the starting QB who gets us back into the playoffs using his abilities on Gibbs' beloved bootlegs, we could dig up all the "Gibbs is an idiot" and "so and so is smoking crack comments". If he is the next Brunell failure, we could dig up the "he'll be ok" or "we need a decent backup to Ramsey" comments. BTW, I'm guessing he's going to turn out to be just fine. Log it!

Re: We need to document the yeh's vs. the ney's concerning Campbell
 

To me it makes sense. If Ramsey doesn't produce, then draft a QB next year? Gibbs doesn't have that long. Might as well have a backup plan because clearly Brunell and Hasse are not the answer.

Re: We need to document the yeh's vs. the ney's concerning Campbell
 

Mark it down NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: We need to document the yeh's vs. the ney's concerning Campbell
 

Well I really don't know what to make of it. I hope it works out but what the Skins have done over the years in the draft have been very poor. Even when they get it right they push the guy out of town or he is a bad guy not a true Redskin! The truth of it all is that those days may never be back!!!! Players like Arrington or Taylor are hired guns not true Redskins. I would have traded both for players in this draft that wanted to be here if I was running things. With no let down and even better!!!!! I know you all think these two walk on water but they don't like it here, they don't make the money they wanted[that gun at thier head when they signed should be reported!] or what ever the reason. I don't have time for guys like this....piss off and get someone who wants to be here!

Re: We need to document the yeh's vs. the ney's concerning Campbell
 

taylor doesnt have a choice, he will play and become a pro bowler this year
arrington will stay hurt and sneak around making his millions and eventually come back
campbell will play very little this season (when ramsey agervates something) and will take over ramsey next year if we fail under PR

Re: We need to document the yeh's vs. the ney's concerning Campbell
 

I don't care how good Campbell ends up being, I'm still against the pick. I don't think the pick sabotaged the Redskins...just Patrick Ramsey.

Re: We need to document the yeh's vs. the ney's concerning Campbell
 

[QUOTE=NM Redskin]To me it makes sense. If Ramsey doesn't produce, then draft a QB next year? Gibbs doesn't have that long. Might as well have a backup plan because clearly Brunell and Hasse are not the answer.[/QUOTE]

If Gibbs is concerned with the "future of the Redskins"; I think they should have waited until next year. Jason Campbell is a huge question mark; I think hes good, but nothing to get real excited about. There are three guys definitley/probably coming out next year that I think you get really excited about (Leinhart,Leak,Young).