Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=mooby;818838]Had to change that. For some reason 5-11 doesn't feel nearly as bad as 4-12. I associate 4-12 with top 5 draft picks, and cemented status as one of the worst 3-4 teams in the NFL. Which we were that year.[/quote]

My bad -- you're absolutely right. 4-12 is way worse than 5-11 than just 1 more loss/1 less win.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Not sure but I think if you bring the invitation they put you on a list for prizes or something like that. You definitely don't need it.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/small-crowds-at-redskins-training-camp-reflect-lockout-teams-downturn-lack-of-stars/2011/08/01/gIQABvC2nI_story.html]Small crowds at Redskins training camp reflect lockout, team’s downturn, lack of stars - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

:pffff:

Its a lockout year and its farging hot outside...not surprised.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

I don't see how the lockout would keep people away...I'm more excited for football this year than I've been in a long time because there was the possibility it wouldn't happen!!! I can definitely see the economy as a culprit, although NFL games and especially the Skins have been pretty high end tix for quite some time.

Even factoring that out I find the article title misleading. I'm a fan and will love the Skins all my life. But I have no respect for Snyder and like others refrain from purchasing anything that will benefit him. Obviously we bring our personal bias into any debate but I'd like to think folks are sick of him not the team.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;818568]I used to go to spring games at OU but have stopped recently, just too hot and honestly not that exciting.[/quote]

Exactly. I've been to a few Skins training camps, a Jets (last year we waited 2 hours for the green/white scrimmage to start, left 20 minutes in because the bar seemed more fun), Bills... and they're just not interesting and its 100* out there. The only time I've ever really said wow that was fun after camp was the year I got to cover it, and when I was a kid and just chased autographs.

Maybe if the players didn't require all their practices to be out of pads, and there was some hitting and all that, people would be more interested...

I also think the lack of time to plan probably hurt peoples desire to go as well. Very few people I think can just pick up and go.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Dumb article. To really say that people aren't enthusiastic for the Skins, one must look at the attendance for the other teams' camps. I bet everyone is seeing piss poor attendance. The lockout alone would ensure that. The really hot days would also keep folks away. Why fry watching a lousy practice?

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=The Goat;818874]I don't see how the lockout would keep people away...I'm more excited for football this year than I've been in a long time because there was the possibility it wouldn't happen!!! I can definitely see the economy as a culprit, although NFL games and especially the Skins have been pretty high end tix for quite some time.

Even factoring that out I find the article title misleading. I'm a fan and will love the Skins all my life. But I have no respect for Snyder and like others refrain from purchasing anything that will benefit him. Obviously we bring our personal bias into any debate but I'd like to think folks are sick of him not the team.[/quote]


The fact that you have billionaires vs millionaires bitching about relatively stupid things, other than the health insurance stuff for the old time vets, would turn off many folks. The owners make a ton, as well as the players, and it all revolves around marketing a GAME. Most people that are diehard fans won't care, but the casual fan might care and not show up.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=NLC1054;818667]There's a level of bullshit in this fanbase that's unbelievable.

After years of having the "win now" mentality, and losing, the team is finally rebuilding, finally adding team first players instead of me first players, has dynamic young players, is making smart free agent signings and spending money wisely, has completely removed Dan Snyder from football operations...they're pretty much doing everything the fanbase has been demanding for years...

...And NOW is the time when people say they're tapping out and don't want to show up and support the team?

Christ...[/quote]


Whoa dude!!!!!!!!! Frying your ass off just to watch a practice isn't such an alluring activity to many. I mean you are not watching a scrimmage, just a practice. Are you really going to take time off of work, etc to watch a practice in killer heat? I don't think so. As the economy worsens, the interest in pro sports in general will wane(meaning see it live). Look at the stands sometime if you can catch a E European soccer match. Not too many folks in the stands. They have more things to worry about than watching sports, things like getting food on the table, or securing a job etc. With inflation getting worse, ticket prices will soar and folks will stay home and watch on the tube. I am sure this is going on with the other camps as well.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

A trade for Orton or drafting a QB in the first tound would've had fans braving the heat. No?

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;818828]TC attendance and demand for tix have a lot more to do with the lockout and economy than Dan Snyder. Another PFT BS article trashing the Skins, it's fun and gets web-hits.....F PFT.[/quote]

agree. PFT = garbage

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=diehard;818898]A trade for Orton or drafting a QB in the first tound would've had fans braving the heat. No?[/quote]

Exactly.

One of the big name free agents people claim to hate shows up, and camp's a sell out, 100 degree temps or not. If we had Nnamdi, people would show up just to watch him walk the sidelines.

If I'm coming off as harsh, I'm sorry, but the mood swings of this fanbase are giving me whiplash. A couple of months ago we were talking about getting younger and jettison vets and moving McNabb and Haynesworth and no drama...and now we have that, and I hear people on the radio demanding Shanahan get fired for not being aggressive enough, while PHILLY Vinny Cerrato's it up and gets praised.

I'm a little irked right now is all, because I feel there's some hypocrisy right underneath the surface.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818893]Dumb article. To really say that people aren't enthusiastic for the Skins, one must look at the attendance for the other teams' camps. I bet everyone is seeing piss poor attendance. The lockout alone would ensure that. The really hot days would also keep folks away. Why fry watching a lousy practice?[/quote]

Well the Lions attendance is up, from the anecdotal evidence I have. But yes it's down at many other camps.

Most of the true factors have already been listed here-economy, heat, lockout, it's not that exciting. Though you may recall that I did say that recent research we did showed that the Redskins' popularity is at its lowest point in a decade. But that was done after the 2009 season.

But I'll tell you what. I don't think it's a bad thing at all that there aren't so many fans there. This to me reflects the proper direction we're moving in. Before we had the headline grabbing players.

Oh my God. The Redskins signed Deion I gotta go see him Burgundy and Gold! We just traded for Donovan McNabb! I need to see him as soon as training camp starts! Haynesworth can't pass his conditioning test! This I gotta see!

Even the less hardcore fans were interested in these big names. But now? Not so excited about seeing Kory Lichtensteiger? Anthony Bryant bores you? So what, these are guys who are going to help us win...hopefully

And now I'll debunk much of what I just said and say that when some of our FAs actually can practice we'll probably see a bit of a lift.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=NLC1054;818918]Exactly.

One of the big name free agents people claim to hate shows up, and camp's a sell out, 100 degree temps or not. If we had Nnamdi, people would show up just to watch him walk the sidelines.

If I'm coming off as harsh, I'm sorry, but the mood swings of this fanbase are giving me whiplash. A couple of months ago we were talking about getting younger and jettison vets and moving McNabb and Haynesworth and no drama...and now we have that, and I hear people on the radio demanding Shanahan get fired for not being aggressive enough, while PHILLY Vinny Cerrato's it up and gets praised.

I'm a little irked right now is all, because I feel there's some hypocrisy right underneath the surface.[/quote]

It's because even some of the brightest minds out there are basically fickle and stupid when it comes to being fanatical about their team. Opinions change day to day (minute by minute on our gameday threads). But I've said this a 1000 times and I'll say it again, I believe one of the hardest things for Snyder to do (and I believe he now is) is to take off his lifelong fan hat and put on the owner hat. We have the fortune of being fans who can be irrational and retarded. Unfortunately for Snyder, when he bought the team he basically had to stop being a fan of the team. Our irrationality can go unchecked. His can't

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818920]Well the Lions attendance is up, from the anecdotal evidence I have. But yes it's down at many other camps.

Most of the true factors have already been listed here-economy, heat, lockout, it's not that exciting. Though you may recall that I did say that recent research we did showed that the Redskins' popularity is at its lowest point in a decade. But that was done after the 2009 season.

But I'll tell you what. I don't think it's a bad thing at all that there aren't so many fans there. This to me reflects the proper direction we're moving in. Before we had the headline grabbing players.

Oh my God. The Redskins signed Deion I gotta go see him Burgundy and Gold! We just traded for Donovan McNabb! I need to see him as soon as training camp starts! Haynesworth can't pass his conditioning test! This I gotta see!

Even the less hardcore fans were interested in these big names. But now? Not so excited about seeing Kory Lichtensteiger? Anthony Bryant bores you? So what, these are guys who are going to help us win...hopefully

And now I'll debunk much of what I just said and say that when some of our FAs actually can practice we'll probably see a bit of a lift.[/quote]


I think it might be a good thing in that folks are going to be more practical in their expectations with the team. Too many folks over the course of my time involved with Warpath or the old WP Skins message board went with the hype of every new coach or QB we acquired over the past decade and said playoffs here we come, etc, even though in reality most people knew we would be lucky to hit .500. I know I have a bad rep in here being a pessimist, but I rather be a pessimist that is proven wrong on occasion and receives a nice surprise than a poor bloke that has visions of playoffs dancing in his head, when the team has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I am excited about this season, even if we only go 7-9 or 8-8. The newbies will be learning, but making things exciting. But I still don't think I would risk getting fried over watching a practice.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

If I lived close by I'd be there every possible day, but that's just me.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

How about it's been about 90+ and felt like 100+ for the past two months or so.

Isn't PFT the same site that gained fame and credibility by saying that we were going to sign TO every year ?

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818924]It's because even some of the brightest minds out there are basically fickle and stupid when it comes to being fanatical about their team. Opinions change day to day (minute by minute on our gameday threads). But I've said this a 1000 times and I'll say it again, I believe one of the hardest things for Snyder to do (and I believe he now is) is to take off his lifelong fan hat and put on the owner hat. We have the fortune of being fans who can be irrational and retarded. Unfortunately for Snyder, when he bought the team he basically had to stop being a fan of the team. Our irrationality can go unchecked. His can't[/quote]


I still think the economy and the heat are keeping most of the folks away. If there is any factor that is team related that is keeping fans away it is the QB situation. The team made all the right moves other than that. They are getting younger, addressed needs in the draft, younger FAs, etc. A lot of these never satisfied, fickle fans, have written them off because of the Beck situation. I haven't written them off, but I am not sure how Beck is going to do if he did manage to beat out Rexy for the #1 spot. Also, face it man, we haven't had a real strong playoff team since 1999/2000 when Johnson and co set all of those offensive records. That was the last really decent O line we had, etc. Since then a lot of HCs and QBs have come and gone and the fanbase has been faced with mediocre football. The economy, the heat, and the Beck talk, all can be seen as why camp attendance is down.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

I wonder if the Twitter world we live in also impacts the attendance. Before if you wanted to know what was going on you had to attend camp, now you can get full updates anywhere. Often by people with closer access than you would have anyway

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Smoot I didn't even think of that. I think The Heat Dome, Twitter on top of the fact that there haven't been those splash signings (that we as fans complain about) is a part of the reason that the attendance is down. I've never been because of the distance but once my son gets to the age that he appreciates football then I'll take him down for a few days.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

The season ain't even started yet and I'm being picked on for being a Skins fan.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818960]I wonder if the Twitter world we live in also impacts the attendance. Before if you wanted to know what was going on you had to attend camp, now you can get full updates anywhere. Often by people with closer access than you would have anyway[/quote]


That would be a big factor also, or the fact that forums like this will have guys posting about what they saw,etc at the practice. I just wouldn't want to roast in almost 100 weather just to see a practice if some guy is blogging it.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=Lotus;818638]People would like Danny more if we were winning. Scud is right, winning would change things.[/quote]


Can't compete with the heat, the bad economy, or the net, if you are a mediocre team with shallow QB talent overall. I think folks are in a wait and see mode with all that is going on. It is like the boy who cried wolf. So many times we have been teased into thinking things were turning around, then poof, we still can't win. The ticket prices alone are ludicrous for what you actually see being done on the field, and that is not just the Skins, but most of the league. You really only have about 5-6 teams that really display excellence on the field, the rest are medicore or just abysmal. Can't justify a $110 ticket for a mid level 35 yard line seat with such a poor product being displayed. Can't take a family of 4 or 5 out to see a game with those prices anymore. That is why Goodell wants to try and expand overseas, but Europe isn't going to be able to afford these prices either. Shoot most FIFA games I see highlights of have mostly empty stands unless it is Barclay's or the Bundesliga, or the Italian and Spanish Premier Leagues.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

1) NO QUARTERBACK.
2) NO FREE AGENT SPLASHES

That's why we don't have the excitement this year. No clear leader/QB, no big splashes in free agency. Although wise moves for the team, it doesn't pay dividends in jersey sales and training camp attendance. If Snyder wanted to sell out training camps and preseason, he'd have gotten: (1) Nnamdi Asmougha, (2) Reggie Bush, (3) Sydney Rice, (4) Santonio Holmes, (5) Yanda, (6) Kyle Orton / VY / Hasselback.. Instead of this, we've gotten young team-building players that will serve us better in the long run.

Remember: Haynesworth, Archuleta, Willie Parker, etc = ticket sales, but team failure

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Even if the measurables here actually indicated a waning of Skins' popularity - - and I doubt that they do at all - - the magnitudes need to be considered.

The Skins "decline" might be like the decrease in the height of the Rocky Mountains due to erosion over the past 1000 years. AND, even after that "decline" the Redskins remain THE more important and popular sports option (professional or amateur or collegiate) in the DC area by an inestimable margin.

The acronym best applied to this "analysis" is BFD...

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Two words as to why training camp attendance is down. John Beck. Over the last decade of training camps we've either had an in house 1st round pick or at worst a solid veteran. (Ramsey, Brunell, Campbell, McNabb) Beck is such an unknown that it's hard for a lot of the fan base to get behind him

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=SmootSmack;818960]I wonder if the Twitter world we live in also impacts the attendance. Before if you wanted to know what was going on you had to attend camp, now you can get full updates anywhere. Often by people with closer access than you would have anyway[/quote]

Thats a really good point, and one I probably think is very true. Even back ten years ago; you didnt get a quarter of the coverage you do now. Now you have radio shows live at camps, TV shows, highlights, website interviews, twitters and everything. It basically feels like you're right there anyways.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

There are probably a ton of reasons why people have chosen not to go this year. Temps, money, lockout, lack of planning time, lack of "star power" . SOme may not like Snyder but I can't name an owner that is willing to spend Millions over Millions over Millions of his money to make the team better, the game experience better, the stadium better, training camp better. The guy loves the Redskins, and I am guessing the losing is hurting him more than it hurts us. He's made some rash decisions over the last decade but lets not forget he was 34 when he bought the team. Which one of us wouldn't have done some of the things he did when he bought the team. I probably would have tried to keep my prints on the team for a while as he did. We all think we know more about football personel than we really do. I am hoping he is learning his place this year and from what I can see the last couple of years he has been the check signer and that is about it. So yeah, those that want Snyder to sell and can't stand him, I would say get over it. He isn't going to sell, and he isn't going anywhere. Put it behind you and support the Skins, or dont. I'd rather have a guy that has his passion and willing to do whatever it takes than an owner that is cheap (bills, bengals, SF,)

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

The lockout has nothing to do with the small crowds. Bottom line is the fans are tired of the losing. I also think that blackouts are right around the corner. Never ever thought I say that but it's going to happen.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=#56fanatic;819142]There are probably a ton of reasons why people have chosen not to go this year. Temps, money, lockout, lack of planning time, lack of "star power" . SOme may not like Snyder but [B]I can't name an owner that is willing to spend Millions over Millions over Millions of his money to make the team better, the game experience better, the stadium better, training camp better.[/B] The guy loves the Redskins, and I am guessing the losing is hurting him more than it hurts us. He's made some rash decisions over the last decade but lets not forget he was 34 when he bought the team. Which one of us wouldn't have done some of the things he did when he bought the team. I probably would have tried to keep my prints on the team for a while as he did. We all think we know more about football personel than we really do. I am hoping he is learning his place this year and from what I can see the last couple of years he has been the check signer and that is about it. So yeah, those that want Snyder to sell and can't stand him, I would say get over it. He isn't going to sell, and he isn't going anywhere. Put it behind you and support the Skins, or dont. I'd rather have a guy that has his passion and willing to do whatever it takes than an owner that is cheap (bills, bengals, SF,)[/quote]



Ever heard of Robert Kraft...?

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=skinsfan69;819170]The lockout has nothing to do with the small crowds. Bottom line is the fans are tired of the losing. I also think that blackouts are right around the corner. Never ever thought I say that but it's going to happen.[/quote]

Danny Boy can avoid blackouts at about 30-cents on the dollar for unused tix by addign that amount to what the visiting team gets paid for showing up at Fed Ex.

I truly believe that Danny Boy recognizes that blacking out games in DC would hurt his bottom line more than "fillling the till for visiting clubs" out of his revenue streams would hurt the bottom line.

If the Redskins have to go into "blackout mode", it will be an indicator that the franchise itself is teetering...

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

There are a ton of reasons why the skins popularity is declinging. I really wish they would get out of PG county and the cluster storm that is fed ex parking. i like many others decline free tickets now. just too much of a hassle to watch an inept team.

i know i talk about baltimore alot but on game day, the city is buzzing. people in purple walking to M&T from the surrounding neighborhoods. go to one of the many bars in fed hill, drink get some brunch, walk a few blocks to the stadium, go through the ravens walk with all types of booths and activities. the stadium seating is some much better than fed ex. upper deck seats you have a great view, fed ex your up there in the clouds watching lil ants run around.

when i walk out of my home, there are raven flags on every house, people close down streets, pull huge tvs out and have a neighborhood block parties . . .

just imagine if the skins played in downtown alexandria. it seems everything about the skins right now is horrible, from the team to the game day experience. hopefully mike can atleast get us a team we can feel good about.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Meanwhile in Cleveland, Colt McCoy is reaching new fan bases and their popularity is at an all-time high!

[img]http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/9852912-standard.jpg[/img]

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

If they were winning things would be fine, they are losing so there you have it.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=Monkeydad;819399]Meanwhile in Cleveland, Colt McCoy is reaching new fan bases and their popularity is at an all-time high!

[img]http://media.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/photo/9852912-standard.jpg[/img][/quote]

What in the name of being Amish? That's all I've got, I can't figure out why he would wanna go bowl haircut and trimmed beard.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

3 observations. 1 - Is he autographing water bottles and cups? 2- is that kid gonna get his peach signed? 3 - neck zits, but ill give him a pass as i imagine thats where his shoulder pads meet his neck, sweating chaffing etc . . .

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

[quote=over the mountain;819410]3 observations. 1 - Is he autographing water bottles and cups? 2- is that kid gonna get his peach signed? 3 - neck zits, but ill give him a pass as i imagine thats where his shoulder pads meet his neck, sweating chaffing etc . . .[/quote]

1. Yes
2. Maybe?
3. I'll second that pass.
4. I just noticed that entire family looks Amish. That's what I get for focusing on beard & bowl guy.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Makes me want some Pretzel Sticks, Old Bay Wings, and Potato Wedges from the Dutch Farmers Market ! To Upper Marlboro but Laurel is closer !

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

That beard guy is like one of those paintings that follow you around the room.

Re: Redskins’ popularity wanes - PFT
 

Write about this Florio

[url=http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/111046-ed-lockout-costing-steelers-money]Ed: Lockout Costing Steelers Money[/url]