Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

All I want to know is weather or not he's tough enough to stay in a game and play with a grade 2 MCL tear/sprain. Sure it's an injury that takes players out for around a month but thats only because those wussy liberal natzis done be makin the rules.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;780442]Not that you asked but here's my view about Locker:
If we can we agree that every QB's accuracy is effected when they're under pressure?
And we can we also agree that its harder to throw on the move then in a clean pocket?
Then the question becomes how come Locker can be very accurate on the move yet appears less accurate from the pocket?

I think Mayock describes Locker's issues best here:


From watching a few Washington games my impression of Locker is that his OL wasn't good and behind a better OL he would provide the best of both worlds in/out of the pocket.

I would love for him to be available in the 2nd but i doubt he'll be there.[/quote]



I don't think you can blame it on his OL, totally. The first day of the Senior Bowl practice he was having those same issues. His second practice day was better. Having natural ability and not putting it to use is as bad as drafting a lesser talented QB further into the draft.

Defense needs addressing more so than a QB in the first or second round.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;780464]yeah keep in mind with locker that he played with a crappy OLine and crappier receivers much like Jay Cutler.

I think he has a lot of potential in this offense, and reminds me of a Donovan McNabb-type QB.[/quote]

I'm hoping for better than McNabb lol... More of a poor mans Steve Young is my hope.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;780466]All I want to know is weather or not he's tough enough to stay in a game and play with a grade 2 MCL tear/sprain. Sure it's an injury that takes players out for around a month but thats only because those wussy liberal natzis done be makin the rules.[/quote]

Agreed. If you can't play with a grade II MCL tear, you're an unwanted pussy.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/01/kiper-likes-newton-redskins]Kiper likes Newton to Redskins | John Keim | NFL | Washington Examiner[/url]

I don't agree with all that Kiper says, but there you go

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;780564]I don't think you can blame it on his OL, totally. The first day of the Senior Bowl practice he was having those same issues. His second practice day was better. Having natural ability and not putting it to use is as bad as drafting a lesser talented QB further into the draft.

Defense needs addressing more so than a QB in the first or second round.[/quote]

I'm not [I][B]blaming[/B][/I] his OL but stating that they're not good is pretty much a fact.
I think if Locker played behind Stanford's OL he wouldn't have these question marks.
And Locker wasn't the only QB that was off target.
I think he used every bit of ability to take that Washington team to a bowl game.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;779397]Yeah, pretty much. Patrino is still looking for his own version of Aaron Rodgers at the pro level. Unfortunately the closest he's gotten is Jake Plummer. Other Petrino coached QB's include Dave Ragone, Stefan LeFors, Chris Redman, and Brian Brohm many of whom serve as poster childs for why teams can't rely on using mid round draft picks to find franchise QB.

Lol in fact I'm convinced, if Chris Redman was coming out in this draft he would have a following that would make both Andy Dalton and Kellen Moore jealous, well maybe not Kellen Moore but certainly Andy Dalton. I mean if I told people that there would be a QB available as late as the third round with four years of starting experience in a pro-like system with 29 TD passes each of the last two years paired with 15 and 13 INT's as well as a 71% and 65% completion percentage (not to mention[URL="http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=3236"] 4,042 and 3,647 yards[/URL] during his last two seasons), well safe to say the man crushes would be flying left and right.

Which actually begs the question.....why the hell was Chris Redman a third round pick in the first place? I mean I know he went on to be a bust but as a prospect he certainly seems like someone that should have fetched a first round grade.[/quote]


This is the perfect example of why you don't use stats as the main reason in personnel decisions.

Good numbers help get attention to good players, but nfl teams should use stats to help decide AFTER evaluating the film on players.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;779966]Locker has a good head on his shoulders, but he threw a lot of INTs the past two years, and the bowl game against Nebraska this season he won with his feet and not his arm. To me he is an above average college QB, and nothing that should garner the lovefest he is.[/quote]

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/nfl-draft/redskins-talk-with-jake-locker.html?wprss=redskinsinsider]Redskins Insider - Redskins talk with Jake Locker (join the crowd)[/url]

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

What's interesting about this years' draft is that it reminds me of the 2005 draft. I think Locker is a late first round pick. I think the skins are high on him, however I don't think we will spend our number 10 pick on him. What I think could happen is that we draft Von Miller at 10 and wait to see if Locker drops around 20 or so then we trade into the first round- give up our 2nd and a first from next year- and draft Locker. Similar to what we did with Campbell in 2005.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=The Owner;780654]What's interesting about this years' draft is that it reminds me of the 2005 draft. I think Locker is a late first round pick. I think the skins are high on him, however I don't think we will spend our number 10 pick on him. What I think could happen is that we draft Von Miller at 10 and wait to see if Locker drops around 20 or so then we trade into the first round- give up our 2nd and a first from next year- and draft Locker. Similar to what we did with Campbell in 2005.[/quote]

My preference would be just to trade back in the first if the Shannys are hell bent on grabbing an average QB prospect...whether its locker, newton, gabbert, etc. I know its easier said than done. Miller would be a great pick at 10, but the more i here about him the more i hear he could be a top 5 pick. To give up a first next year with a better QB crop coming out next year, why wouldnt we just be patient? the more things change, the more they stay the same...

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=Chico23231;780657]My preference would be just to trade back in the first if the Shannys are hell bent on grabbing an average QB prospect...whether its locker, newton, gabbert, etc. I know its easier said than done. Miller would be a great pick at 10, but the more i here about him the more i hear he could be a top 5 pick. To give up a first next year with a better QB crop coming out next year, why wouldnt we just be patient? the more things change, the more they stay the same...[/quote]

Yes. I would rather trade back and ADD picks than essentially spend multiple picks on one player and thus LOSE picks.

The trade out of the first round that we did a couple of years ago is the right idea...as long as we don't pick Devin Thomas again.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

Who will be looking for a QB?
[B]Panthers?[/B] they are talking more about picking up a Vet in FA. But who knows...
[url=http://www.carolinahuddle.com/forum/carolina-panthers/55320-hurney-qb-is-carolina-panthers-no-1-need.html]Hurney: QB is Carolina Panthers' 'No. 1 need' - Carolina Panthers Message Board[/url]

Interesting, the 3rd poster mentions McNabbs agent was given permission to seek a trade then they say .... lets go get him. lol.

[B]Bronco's?[/B]Most likely not their fans sound satisfied with Tebow.

[B]Bills?[/B][url=http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=327445]A Team With an Elite QB Will Win the Super Bowl!! - Buffalobills.com Message Board[/url]

[url=http://boards.buffalobills.com/showthread.php?t=328254]Ralph changes tune about QB - Buffalobills.com Message Board[/url]

[B]Bengals?[/B]Maybe not the fans are for letting Dan LeFevour a shot. But their main site has Jake Locker on it as if they are scoping all the QB's.
[url=http://www.bengals.com/]Cincinnati Bengals[/url]

[B]Cardinals?[/B]
Their message boards don't talk of it but personally I'd say they need a QB since what they had this last yr didn't do much.

[B]Browns?[/B]
They seem happy with Colt McCoy.

[B]49ers?[/B]
[url=http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=112281]Harbaugh on the importance of an Elite QB - 49ers Message Board Community[/url]

[url=http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=112405]Drafting a QB in the 1st or 2nd round is the best chance we have to win. - 49ers Message Board Community[/url]

[B]Titans?[/B]
The good news they are talking about Vets...
Carson Palmer: [url=http://gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=68545]Carson Palmer - goTitans.com[/url]
D.McNabb: [url=http://gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=68516]Donovan McNabb - goTitans.com[/url]
[url=http://gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=68569]Available QB's??? - goTitans.com[/url]

[B]Dallas?[/B]
They are not talking QB, I presume they are keeping Romo, but the rumors at the end of the season I thought were they were looking to get rid of him or cut him.

I don't know why I look at all the teams ahead of us and think any or all could draft a QB. Some more then other have a bigger need for one.

It also sounds like most fans feel Locker and possibly Newton are top 1st round talent even though we keep hearing about Lockers stock falling.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

Romo isn't going anywhere.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

Dallas could play a pivotal role in this draft. JJ has taken the Tuna's lead & likes to trade out of the 1st round when there's not a player he's enamored with. Since they are one pick ahead of us & we are known to need a qb & many other positions, don't be surprised if some team that has an eye on a player, trades w/dallas to get ahead of us.

If nothing else, they could limit our opportunities to trade back.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=The Owner;780654]What's interesting about this years' draft is that it reminds me of the 2005 draft. I think Locker is a late first round pick. I think the skins are high on him, however I don't think we will spend our number 10 pick on him. What I think could happen is that we draft Von Miller at 10 and wait to see if Locker drops around 20 or so then we trade into the first round- give up our 2nd and a first from next year- and draft Locker. Similar to what we did with Campbell in 2005.[/quote]

Welcome to the board.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=freddyg12;780681]Dallas could play a pivotal role in this draft. JJ has taken the Tuna's lead & likes to trade out of the 1st round when there's not a player he's enamored with. Since they are one pick ahead of us & we are known to need a qb & many other positions, don't be surprised if some team that has an eye on a player, trades w/dallas to get ahead of us.

If nothing else, they could limit our opportunities to trade back.[/quote]

If somehow Prince Amukamara is there at #9, which I know is doubtful, you know they will take him. Their secondary was troubling last year.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=SBXVII;780678]
[B]Dallas?[/B]
They are not talking QB, I presume they are keeping Romo, but the rumors at the end of the season I thought were they were looking to get rid of him or cut him.
[/quote]

Pass the cheeb my man; and while some teams have legitimate QB needs, forum chatter is hardly a front office reach out.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;780597]I'm not [I][B]blaming[/B][/I] his OL but stating that they're not good is pretty much a fact.
I think if Locker played behind Stanford's OL he wouldn't have these question marks.
And Locker wasn't the only QB that was off target.
I think he used every bit of ability to take that Washington team to a bowl game.[/quote]


Having a quick release and the ability to process defenses quickly enough can be a difference maker to improve your in-the-pocket efficiency. If you listen to the critiques of Locker by the draft experts, they say that he cannot at this stage handle a pro-set offense because he looks lost due to the fact that he does not go through his progressions and starts to panic.

But the guy looks as if he will get it together someday with familiarity of running a NFL style offense. Practice, practice and more practice will atone his misgivings.

At number #10, I would prefer going in a different direction by selecting a defensive player.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;780707]Having a quick release and the ability to process defenses quickly enough can be a difference maker to improve your in-the-pocket efficiency.[/quote]
Locker does have a quick release and Locker does get the ball out quickly that's is the entire design of Washington's offense get the ball out quick and move the pocket to offset their lack of pass protection.

[quote]If you listen to the critiques of Locker by the draft experts, they say that he cannot at this stage handle a pro-set offense because he looks lost due to the fact that he does not go through his progressions and starts to panic.[/quote]
No offense but right now i think you're starting to slip into the internet forum habit of just throwing things out there.

I haven't read anything like what you mention at all and I read a lot of the draft reports.
Locker's offense at Washington was mostly pro-set although you probably mean pro-style.
Now you're saying that Locker panics and doesn't go throw his progressions?
Those are kinda ambiguos claims to refute but every QB goes through progressions even Cam Newton and being that Locker plays in a pro-style offense he makes more progressions then other college QBs especially spread QBs.
As far as panic goes one of Locker's strongest traits is the ability to make plays on the run which kinda flies in the face of claim that he panics.

Again, if Locker played behind Luck's OL their would be no questions about his abilities in the pocket b/c his pocket would always be clean.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[B][I]No offense but right now i think you're starting to slip into the internet forum habit of just throwing things out there.

I haven't read anything like what you mention at all and I read a lot of the draft reports.[/I][/B]

This is CBS Sports.com:

[I]"Kaepernick, Locker make different last impressions

By Rob Rang
The Sports Xchange/CBSSports.com
Jan. 26, 2011Tell Rob your opinion!

NFL scouts leave Mobile en masse Wednesday night and Thursday morning, making Wednesday's practice impressions incredibly important.

The focus of the morning practice was again the North team quarterbacks: Jake Locker (Washington), Colin Kaepernick (Nevada) and Ricky Stanzi (Iowa).

Jake Locker again struggles with accuracy during Wednesday's practice. (AP)

The best passer on the field was Kaepernick, who threw tight spirals to either side of the field, had an exceptional touch throw into the back right corner of the end zone, and looked smooth and fluid running out of the pocket when his primary receiver was covered. When he sets his feet and throws a tight ball, Kaepernick's velocity is more than what's needed to make every NFL throw.

His delivery is still an issue -- he winds up a bit and sometimes stops at the top of the delivery before unleashing. One of his passes to the far side of the field was knocked down by a linebacker dropped into coverage -- partially because of the pause, and partially because Kaepernick didn't read the linebacker. The elongation is not as bad as that shown by Tim Tebow and Byron Leftwich in recent years, but will need to be addressed once in an NFL camp.

Tuesday's practice seemed to be a step forward for Locker, who needed to make a solid impression all week to become more than a fantastic athlete with potential. Wednesday he struggled again to connect consistently with receivers while standing in the pocket, coming up short on multiple throws to the wide side of the field. It is clear the Pac-10 star passer is aiming or pressing, trying to be perfect on every throw instead of allowing his athleticism and arm strength to shine through.

If Locker cannot exhibit NFL-caliber accuracy on seam or out routes when playing against air in one-on-one drills, or even against a half-effort pass rush in team scrimmages, it is hard to project him doing it during his NFL career."
[/I]

Don't mean to show disrespect to you by chopping up your response to my post but believe me I really think Locker is a talented athlete but for whatever reason he seems to be pressing too hard. And by doing so, is not show casing the qualities you claim he has. I am not that impress with his "YouTube" highlights.

I am not talking out of my rear end when I think he is not that great.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;780786]Don't mean to show disrespect to you by chopping up your response to my post but believe me I really think Locker is a talented athlete but for whatever reason he seems to be pressing too hard. And by doing so, is not show casing the qualities you claim he has. I am not that impress with his "YouTube" highlights.

I am not talking out of my rear end when I think he is not that great.[/quote]
None taken at all and i hope you don't fell disrespected either.
I was responding to some specific statements you made that i disagree with.
Although i would rather you responded to my statements rather then quote a summary of a Senior Bowl which doesn't address the specific points i disagreed with.

If you think Locker is great i have no problem with that at all, we're all gonna have different opinions.

But, you made specific statements that i thought were untrue and addressed those specific statements:
[quote][quote=juskins;780707]Having a quick release and the ability to process defenses quickly enough can be a difference maker to improve your in-the-pocket efficiency.[/quote]
Locker does have a quick release and Locker does get the ball out quickly that's is the entire design of Washington's offense get the ball out quick and move the pocket to offset their lack of pass protection.

[quote=you]If you listen to the critiques of Locker by the draft experts, they say that he cannot at this stage handle a pro-set offense because he looks lost due to the fact that he does not go through his progressions and starts to panic.[/quote]
Locker's offense at Washington was mostly pro-set although you probably mean pro-style.
Now you're saying that Locker panics and doesn't go throw his progressions?
Those are kinda ambiguos claims to refute but every QB goes through progressions even Cam Newton and being that Locker plays in a pro-style offense he makes more progressions then other college QBs especially spread QBs.
As far as panic goes one of Locker's strongest traits is the ability to make plays on the run which kinda flies in the face of claim that he panics.

Again, if Locker played behind Luck's OL their would be no questions about his abilities in the pocket b/c his pocket would always be clean.[/QUOTE]

Something is always lost in translation on internet forums and i hope you take this as a discussion not an argument.

Hail!
BTW-Re: "Youtube Highights"
Locker and many of the top prospects have entire game short-cuts available on youtube which are quite different from highlights b/c its the all the offensive plays.
Also, i've watched about 7 Washington games this year not just highlights.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;780811]None taken at all and i hope you don't fell disrespected either.
I was responding to some specific statements you made that i disagree with.
Although i would rather you responded to my statements rather then quote a summary of a Senior Bowl which doesn't address the specific points i disagreed with.

If you think Locker is great i have no problem with that at all, we're all gonna have different opinions.

But, you made specific statements that i thought were untrue and addressed those specific statements:


Something is always lost in translation on internet forums and i hope you take this as a discussion not an argument.

Hail!
BTW-Re: "Youtube Highights"
Locker and many of the top prospects have entire game short-cuts available on youtube which are quite different from highlights b/c its the all the offensive plays.
Also, i've watched about 7 Washington games this year not just highlights.[/quote]


I am not a Locker or Newton backer. I would hope we address the defensive line or LBer positions in the first.

I used the CBS Sports article to make a point that I am not the typical internet quote master of the media's ranting about their favorites. On the contrary, I looked at Locker's highlights and saw the same generic gamesmanship that the so called first rounders share - it looks canned ability, nothing stands out. Locker's release doesn't look any quicker than the article I used to make a comparison with Kaepernick's release.

At this point and stage of his brief career, Locker does not look like a first rounder or even a project. Just my own opinion.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;780817]I am not a Locker or Newton backer.......Locker's release doesn't look any quicker than the article I used to make a comparison with Kaepernick's release.

At this point and stage of his brief career, Locker does not look like a first rounder or even a project. Just my own opinion.[/quote]

I like most of this years crop of QBs.
I like QBs in general: Newton, Locker and Gabbert, Stanzi, Kaepernick, Dalton, Tyrod, Jerrod Johnson.
I think that Locker is the best in the group though.

I think even people that don't like Locker admit that his release is much quicker then Kaepernick's.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;780837]I like most of this years crop of QBs.
I like QBs in general: Newton, Locker and Gabbert, Stanzi, Kaepernick, Dalton, Tyrod, Jerrod Johnson.
I think that Locker is the best in the group though.

I think even people that don't like Locker admit that his release is much quicker then Kaepernick's.[/quote]

I like them too. Just not nearly enough to take them at #10 overall... And maybe not even enough to take any in round 2. I'm still on the fence. I'd rather go LB, C, and get a QB in round 3 or 4 if we can from a traded pick for McNabb or Haynesworth.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;780837]I like most of this years crop of QBs.
I like QBs in general: Newton, Locker and Gabbert, Stanzi, Kaepernick, Dalton, Tyrod, Jerrod Johnson.
I think that Locker is the best in the group though.

I think even people that don't like Locker admit that his release is much quicker then Kaepernick's.[/quote]



But, it seems that you and others think that Locker is the best of the best assembled in this year's draft. As the article I posted points out, Locker is not the QB you think he is. If he is as good as you think he is then why hasn't he separate himself from the rest of the freshmen QBs? He can't and has not up to this point.

Maybe, just maybe, he can't get beyond his expectations. We might take a QB in this draft, but I hope its not in the first round.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;780874]But, it seems that you and others think that Locker is the best of the best assembled in this year's draft. As the article I posted points out, Locker is not the QB you think he is.[/quote]
Yeah i said that i like Locker the best.
One article about 1 day of Senior Bowl practice in the grand scheme of the evaluation process doesn't mean a whole lot.
You could read similar reports from any of the Senior Bowl QBs depending on which day you pick and which report you read.
Everything Locker does is going to be scrutinized more then the other prospects b/c he's the biggest name there.

[quote]If he is as good as you think he is then why hasn't he separate himself from the rest of the freshmen QBs? He can't and has not up to this point.[/quote]
Its the Senior Bowl they're all seniors.
And depending on which report you read he has looked the best.
[quote=Brian Floyd]Call it another solid day for Washington quarterback Jake Locker at the Senior Bowl. Over the last two practices, Locker put concerns about his shaky first day to rest, putting together strong, consistent performances at the Senior Bowl. Running through a variety of different situational drills, Locker impressed, distancing himself from the rest of the quarterbacks in Mobile, Alabama — including Nevada’s Colin Kaepernick and Ricky Stanzi.

RealGM praised Locker’s performance, noting his improved accuracy and solid mechanics on Wednesday. As expected, Locker was best working outside the pocket, where he’s free to use his mobility to his advantage.

He looks comfortable taking the snap and scanning the field. And his accuracy today was improved. On a rollout drill Locker was very confident throwing across his body and kept his feet under him when delivering the ball, something the other two QBs didn’t do once. In a red zone drill he consistently fired the ball high to the back line (as designed) with real zip but also catchable balls.

The knock on Locker was his ability to make the tough throws to the sideline, the area he had the most inconsistency. Locker struggled to square-up and deliver an accurate ball to his right side, one of the harder throws to make.

All things considered, Locker has done nothing to hurt his stock at the Senior Bowl, and may find himself rising as practices come to a close. Outside of the first day, he’s been consistent, accurate and has showcased his abilities in front of a bevy of scouts.[/quote]
[url=http://seattle.sbnation.com/washington-huskies/2011/1/26/1957933/2011-senior-bowl-jake-locker-practice-recap-draft-stock]2011 Senior Bowl: Jake Locker Has Another Strong Day, Continues To Improve - SB Nation Seattle[/url]

[quote]From a pure mechanical perspective, it's clear to see that Locker is the most well-developed of the three -- whether in shotgun or under center, he looked poised and natural dropping back, rolls out easily, and throws out of motion as well as any quarterback I've seen in a long time. Locker also has the quickest release and a compact motion that will serve him very well in the NFL.......That play was set up by Jake Locker's ability to sell hard play-action -- another skill Locker has shown this week. [/quote]
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Wednesday-Senior-Bowl-Notes-Morning-Practice?urn=nfl-312852#remaining-content]Wednesday Senior Bowl Notes: Morning Practice - Shutdown Corner - NFL* - Yahoo! Sports[/url]


If you look back to Tebow last year there we're conflicting reports about him just like there will be conflicting reports about any heavily scrutinized prospect b/c people have there preconceived label/view points.
The Senior Bowl isn't the end all be all its a part of the evaluation process.
Many scouts and draft people feel that a prospect can't hurt their stock at an event like this b/c its a new scheme, new receivers, new OL mates etc.


[quote]Maybe, just maybe, he can't get beyond his expectations. We might take a QB in this draft, but I hope its not in the first round.[/quote]
To each his own.
I think Locker isn't an easy prospect for a casual fan to evaluate b/c without having watched Washington games you don't fully 'get' Locker.
I would be happy with either Newton, Locker or Gabbert although i have my doubts about how Newton would work in Kyle's seemingly rigid offense scheme.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

I think I'm with the majority around here that doesn't want us to take one of these qbs in the first round. None of them really scream "franchise Quarterback". That being said, if they absolutely are determined to take one, then I'll go with Locker. While he has a number of issues to work on, the ones he doesn't need to work on are his mechanics or learning how to take a snap from center. Eliminating those tasks will make it a little easier in teaching him the rest of the pro game. If we take Locker, we should not see him starting if all goes well until perhaps 2012. I'd like to see them do with him what Bill Walsh did with Joe Montana: put Locker into the game in low stress situations where the final outcome will be more than likely positive, but not dependent on Locker win/lose the game. Let him build up his confidence some while still seeing live action before becoming the starter.
I feel we should trade down and add more picks. See what falls to us and go from there. If trading down isn't an option, take a guy like Quinn as V. Miller is unlikely to be available outside the top 5 and if Locker is there in the second take him, otherwise, take a interior lineman, cb or wr.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;780882]Yeah i said that i like Locker the best.
One article about 1 day of Senior Bowl practice in the grand scheme of the evaluation process doesn't mean a whole lot.
You could read similar reports from any of the Senior Bowl QBs depending on which day you pick and which report you read.
Everything Locker does is going to be scrutinized more then the other prospects b/c he's the biggest name there.


Its the Senior Bowl they're all seniors.
And depending on which report you read he has looked the best.

[url=http://seattle.sbnation.com/washington-huskies/2011/1/26/1957933/2011-senior-bowl-jake-locker-practice-recap-draft-stock]2011 Senior Bowl: Jake Locker Has Another Strong Day, Continues To Improve - SB Nation Seattle[/url]


[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Wednesday-Senior-Bowl-Notes-Morning-Practice?urn=nfl-312852#remaining-content]Wednesday Senior Bowl Notes: Morning Practice - Shutdown Corner - NFL* - Yahoo! Sports[/url]


If you look back to Tebow last year there we're conflicting reports about him just like there will be conflicting reports about any heavily scrutinized prospect b/c people have there preconceived label/view points.
The Senior Bowl isn't the end all be all its a part of the evaluation process.
Many scouts and draft people feel that a prospect can't hurt their stock at an event like this b/c its a new scheme, new receivers, new OL mates etc.



To each his own.
I think Locker isn't an easy prospect for a casual fan to evaluate b/c without having watched Washington games you don't fully 'get' Locker.
I would be happy with either Newton, Locker or Gabbert although i have my doubts about how Newton would work in Kyle's seemingly rigid offense scheme.[/quote]



It all comes down to my disagreement of your talent evaluation. In my "casual fan" evaluation, Locker is not my first, second, third, etc. choice. I just don't see the hula that he demands from fans like you.

There are some opinions from the sports media that I consider to be on the money in their evaluation of talent. And those talent evaluators don't consider him a first round pick. I have seen more tangibles from lesser herald QBs.

An omission of selecting defense in the first round, IMO, would be a terrible mistake. We shall see.

Let's say we agree to disagree.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;781028]It all comes down to my disagreement of your talent evaluation. In my "casual fan" evaluation, Locker is not my first, second, third, etc. choice. I just don't see the hula that he demands from fans like you.

There are some opinions from the sports media that I consider to be on the money in their evaluation of talent. And those talent evaluators don't consider him a first round pick. I have seen more tangibles from lesser herald QBs.

Let's say we agree to disagree.[/quote]

I don't mean casual fan as disrespect, some people probably find better ways to spend there time.
I justify my excessive football watching to my wife b/c I coach.

And what hula are you talking about? Have i touted Locker in some special way? I just disagree with some specific statements you made.

I think we can all agree that Mike Mayock is one of if not the only credible draft experts? He has Locker as a top 10-15 pick.

I hope we can disagree and still be cool.

Hail!

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

This really scares me off of Locker, even though I've never heard of Russ Lande. Apparently he's best known for giving Brady and Bulger high grades pre-draft. He said,

"...I think Jake Locker hurt himself, I really do. There’s no question physically that he’s got all the tools. He’s got good mechanics, but his accuracy is terrible. I know I spoke to a coach today to get his opinion and he said if a guy’s mechanics are good and he’s smart enough, but his accuracy stinks then there’s not a lot you can do. You’re pretty much saying that you’re always going to have an inaccurate thrower. And if you can’t be accurate you cannot be a quarterback in the N.F.L. I think Locker hurt himself a lot this week...Aaron Rodgers, who coming out of college couldn’t move defenders. He was very good technically, he could throw the ball, but he couldn’t get the safety to move with his eyes. Now you watch him and he’s one of the best at pulling a guy [out of position to create an open area for a receiver].

That’s something that Jake Locker has improved upon, but the problem is that you can do all the work you want and improve in every area and if you’re inaccurate it doesn’t matter. That’s the problem with him. I love him. I want him to succeed – he’s a great kid – but he’s not accurate and I think that’s going to be his downfall. [B]I don’t think he’s going to be a starting quarterback in the N.F.L.[/B]"

[url=http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/q-and-a-with-n-f-l-talent-evaluator-russ-lande/]Q. and A. With N.F.L. Talent Evaluator Russ Lande - NYTimes.com[/url]

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

Locker is the first QB I've ever seen that's much better under center then he is in the Gun.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;781064]Locker is the first QB I've ever seen that's much better under center then he is in the Gun.[/quote]

Maybe that's why he'd be much better in the 2nd or 3rd round than at #10...

IMO

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=steveherrin;781050]This really scares me off of Locker, even though I've never heard of Russ Lande. Apparently he's best known for giving Brady and Bulger high grades pre-draft. He said,

"...I think Jake Locker hurt himself, I really do. There’s no question physically that he’s got all the tools. He’s got good mechanics, but his accuracy is terrible. I know I spoke to a coach today to get his opinion and he said if a guy’s mechanics are good and he’s smart enough, but his accuracy stinks then there’s not a lot you can do. You’re pretty much saying that you’re always going to have an inaccurate thrower. And if you can’t be accurate you cannot be a quarterback in the N.F.L. I think Locker hurt himself a lot this week...Aaron Rodgers, who coming out of college couldn’t move defenders. He was very good technically, he could throw the ball, but he couldn’t get the safety to move with his eyes. Now you watch him and he’s one of the best at pulling a guy [out of position to create an open area for a receiver].

That’s something that Jake Locker has improved upon, but the problem is that you can do all the work you want and improve in every area and if you’re inaccurate it doesn’t matter. That’s the problem with him. I love him. I want him to succeed – he’s a great kid – but he’s not accurate and I think that’s going to be his downfall. [B]I don’t think he’s going to be a starting quarterback in the N.F.L.[/B]"

[URL="http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/q-and-a-with-n-f-l-talent-evaluator-russ-lande/"]Q. and A. With N.F.L. Talent Evaluator Russ Lande - NYTimes.com[/URL][/quote]

His opinion is certainly worth noting, but it's only one man's opinion

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=steveherrin;781050]
[url=http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/27/q-and-a-with-n-f-l-talent-evaluator-russ-lande/]Q. and A. With N.F.L. Talent Evaluator Russ Lande - NYTimes.com[/url][/quote]

I've never seen someone flat out reference Locker as inaccurate most will admit that he's very accurate on when outside the pocket or on the move.
If a QB can be very accurate on some throws how can his overall accuracy be deemed terrible?

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;780882]Yeah i said that i like Locker the best.
One article about 1 day of Senior Bowl practice in the grand scheme of the evaluation process doesn't mean a whole lot.
You could read similar reports from any of the Senior Bowl QBs depending on which day you pick and which report you read.
Everything Locker does is going to be scrutinized more then the other prospects b/c he's the biggest name there.


Its the Senior Bowl they're all seniors.
And depending on which report you read he has looked the best.

[url=http://seattle.sbnation.com/washington-huskies/2011/1/26/1957933/2011-senior-bowl-jake-locker-practice-recap-draft-stock]2011 Senior Bowl: Jake Locker Has Another Strong Day, Continues To Improve - SB Nation Seattle[/url]


[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Wednesday-Senior-Bowl-Notes-Morning-Practice?urn=nfl-312852#remaining-content]Wednesday Senior Bowl Notes: Morning Practice - Shutdown Corner - NFL* - Yahoo! Sports[/url]


If you look back to Tebow last year there we're conflicting reports about him just like there will be conflicting reports about any heavily scrutinized prospect b/c people have there preconceived label/view points.
The Senior Bowl isn't the end all be all its a part of the evaluation process.
Many scouts and draft people feel that a prospect can't hurt their stock at an event like this b/c its a new scheme, new receivers, new OL mates etc.



To each his own.
I think Locker isn't an easy prospect for a casual fan to evaluate b/c without having watched Washington games you don't fully 'get' Locker.
I would be happy with either Newton, Locker or Gabbert although i have my doubts about how Newton would work in Kyle's seemingly rigid offense scheme.[/quote]


Again, its whose opinion one values most. Mike Mayock is being kind when he said Locker is a top fifteen "athlete". He didn't say QB, but "in the top 15". Buyer beware: cautions, look at his attributes closely and judge accordingly.

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/01/24/senior-bowl-breaking-down-north-qbs/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «[/url]

The Skins need a QB to cultivate and Locker is not that QB. He has basic accuracies issues.

If you look at the interview Mayock had with Locker and other QBs, you will see Mike is not sold on Locker. He asked Locker to comment on what others are saying about his preparation and his accuracy.

Stay away from this guy and I don't believe he is worth a first or second round pick. A Pack Ten wonder, please!

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;781096]Again, its whose opinion one values most. Mike Mayock is being kind when he said Locker is a top fifteen "athlete". He didn't say QB, but "in the top 15". Buyer beware: cautions, look at his attributes closely and judge accordingly.

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/01/24/senior-bowl-breaking-down-north-qbs/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «[/url]

The Skins need a QB to cultivate and Locker is not that QB. [B][I][U]He has basic accuracies issues. [/U][/I][/B]If you look at the interview Mayock had with Locker and other QBs, you will see Mike is not sold on Locker. He asked Locker to comment on what others are saying about his preparation and his accuracy.

Stay away from this guy and I don't believe he is worth a first or second round pick. A Pack Ten wonder, please![/quote]

Wait what?
Since when has Mayock been 'kind' to a prospect?
He liked Tebow last year but still gave an honest assessment.
You understand that you basically questioned Mayock's integrity as a scout/draft expert right?

Its okay if you don't like Locker.
I've said that several times.
However, when you make posts like this where you claim that Mayock is not sold on Locker because of the way he interviewed him is silly.

When you post like this be prepared to support your specifics statements.
For example you say that Locker has 'basic' accuracy issues.
But, that statement simply isn't true.
Basic accuracy suggests that the guy isn't accurate at all.
But, Locker's accuracy issues are specific.
The majority of draftniks w/ the exception of Russ Lande will admit that Locker is actually very accurate outside of the pocket and on the move.
Mayock-Who is one of the few qualified draft experts b/c he (a) knows what he's talking about (b) watches film has pin-pointed Locker's exact issue.

Locker's accuracy in the pocket goes down when his vision goes down.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;781116]Wait what?
Since when has Mayock been 'kind' to a prospect?
He liked Tebow last year but still gave an honest assessment.
You understand that you basically questioned Mayock's integrity as a scout/draft expert right?

Its okay if you don't like Locker.
I've said that several times.
However, when you make posts like this where you claim that Mayock is not sold on Locker because of the way he interviewed him is silly.

When you post like this be prepared to support your specifics statements.
For example you say that Locker has 'basic' accuracy issues.
But, that statement simply isn't true.
Basic accuracy suggests that the guy isn't accurate at all.
But, Locker's accuracy issues are specific.
The majority of draftniks w/ the exception of Russ Lande will admit that Locker is actually very accurate outside of the pocket and on the move.
Mayock-Who is one of the few qualified draft experts b/c he (a) knows what he's talking about (b) watches film has pin-pointed Locker's exact issue.

[B][I]Locker's accuracy in the pocket goes down when his vision goes down.[/I][/B][/quote]


Yo, 30gut, did you look at the link I provided you with? I never said Mayock was talking out of his rear end. Listen to what he said in that clip and stop trying to make me the "heavy" here. BTW, can you explain the bold, italicize statement you made? Again, please view the clip I provided you with coming from Mayock.

CLIP, PLEASE VIEW HERE: [url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/01/24/senior-bowl-breaking-down-north-qbs/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «[/url]

Accuracy is Accuracy no matter how you say it or whatever you do to fashion it. If Locker has issues in the pocket and can't hit his targets, then he is not the chosen one, is he?

Let's move on to the next QB on your want list, if you don't mind!

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;781133]BTW, can you explain the bold, italicize statement you made? [/quote]
I'll let Mayock explain it:
[quote=Mayock]Last year at this time everyone wanted to say he'd be the No. 1 pick in the draft, and now he's an afterthought in most people's minds. I don't understand that logic. He's got all the tools to be a top-level quarterback, all the physical tools. The size and the arm strength. I just question his pocket awareness. And that's where his accuracy issues come into play.

When he moves outside the pocket, either right or left, and not just scrambling, because they did a good job with plays that moved him outside the pocket and had him throw on the run, he has good vision and is as accurate as any quarterback you'll see. But he gets into some trouble in the pocket, seeing the field, and that's where his accuracy breaks down. I'm really excited to see him at the Senior Bowl (in two weeks) and see him working with other receivers. To me he's got first-round ability. But I just need to get more comfortable with him, and his pocket awareness.[/quote]
[url=http://blog.seattlepi.com/huskies/archives/235498.asp]Draft analyst: Locker has 'first-round ability'[/url]

[quote]If Locker has issues in the pocket and can't hit his targets, then he is not the chosen one, is he?[/quote]
If it was cut and dry that Locker is inaccurate then he wouldn't be considered a top prospect by anyone especially well respected guys like Mayock and Gil Brandt.
I've watched a bunch of Washington games and I trust my eyes.

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=30gut;781135]I'll let Mayock explain it:

[url=http://blog.seattlepi.com/huskies/archives/235498.asp]Draft analyst: Locker has 'first-round ability'[/url]

If it was cut and dry that Locker is inaccurate then he wouldn't be considered a top prospect by anyone especially well respected guys like Mayock and Gil Brandt.
I've watched a bunch of Washington games and I trust my eyes.[/quote]


You never commented on the clip I provided you, 30gut, did you? Not once, but twice.

You are quoting Mayock before he saw Locker practices at the Senior Bowl, didn't you. That was then - not now.

Again, 30gut, view this clip and get back with me:

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/01/24/senior-bowl-breaking-down-north-qbs/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «[/url]

Re: Is locker going in the first or second?
 

[quote=juskins;781137]You never commented on the clip I provided you, 30gut, did you? Not once, but twice.

You are quoting Mayock before he saw Locker practices at the Senior Bowl, didn't you. That was then - not now.

Again, 30gut, view this clip and get back with me:

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/01/24/senior-bowl-breaking-down-north-qbs/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Senior Bowl: Breaking down North QBs «[/url][/quote]

I commented on that quote in my first reply:
[quote]However, when you make posts like this where you claim that Mayock is not sold on Locker because of the way he interviewed him is silly.[/quote]

I actually watched the NFLN networks broadcast of the Senior Bowl practices so I not only heard Mayock and the rest of the cast in that clip but I heard them talk about the prospects throughout the entire practice.

Also, Mayock like most credible draft experts won't change their evaluation of QBs based on Senior Bowl practices its part of the evaluation process not the whole evaluation process.
Actually the most important aspect of the Senior bowl for QBs is their interaction w/ their teammates and coaches and their interviews w/ team scouts and GMs.

Also, i thought we agreed to keep the convo cool don't get so worked up.
Did you see the explanation you asked for?
Your welcome.

HTTR!
Oh, and this is the clip i think you're looking for:
[url=http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-senior-bowl/09000d5d81deb36a/Senior-Bowl-QBs-on-set]NFL Videos: Senior Bowl: QBs on set[/url]