Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

I'm sure he's rehabed.....and had absolutely no knowledge or involvement in the shooting that happened at his (30th I think) B-Day party here in VB just a few months ago.

F Vick. I can't see how anyone can have an ounce of compassion for this cold-blooded, heartless PoS. The only remorse he has about his direct involvement (hands-on) in the torture and killing of dogs is that he got caught.

Yes, he served his time. Yes there are those in the NFL that have done worse. And every time he takes the field I hope he fails miserably or gets injured. And I'm no fan of Ray Lewis, Caruth, etc.

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;769455]I know what Vick did was henious i know. But what is wrong with our society that we want to ban a man from his profession FOR LIFE because of his dogfighting, but yet other NFL players who have committed murder against human beings, whether unintentional or intentional, people just gloss over and continue to embrace.
[/quote]

3 points...

1. I agree that others with crimes against humans were not harsh enough.
(My position is that ex cons should not play in the NFL)

2. The issue of banning someone for LIFE from his profession because he is a violent felon is fairly universal. I am a Recruiter....believe me...if you have gone to jail for comitting a violent crime...your career is basically done....regardless of what it is....but especially in any position of visibility that represents the company/organization.....let me ask you this question....if Vick was interviewing for an office manager job...would you hire him....or someone that hasn't been to prison?
Let's be realistic.

3. Regarding forgiveness....I believe that forgiving someone for the wrongs that they are truly remorseful for is the right thing to do...however...it does not mean that the repercussions of the action vanish...Vick will and should pay the price for his actions long after he has been forgiven. Forgiving does not mean putting a foolish man with a violent past in a position to be a hero to our youth. Who is the fool now?

Let me ask a question....how many Haynesworth jerseys are being sold?
how many Vick?....who has done the worse wrong?
Being a jerk...vs violently murdering dogs..
Isn't that seriously screwed up?....kids buying Vick jersey's and bragging about how awesome he is?....and their father's feeding them that garbage?
Hopefully, Dad's in Philly are having a good sit down with their kids about Vick when their kids want a Vick jersey and explain why they shouldn't wear one.

I personally wish the guy well and hope he has learned..but I think the NFL "sold out" and are hypocrites for saying they won't tolerate violence or drugs...then let it continue and provide the benefit of fame and fortune to the worst violators. The NFL is dropping the ball in the name of money....really sad.

I wonder what the NCAA would do to a guy like Vick?

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=SolidSnake84;769457]I dont think it is so much the stance of the NFL as much as it is the belief in the United States of America, and maybe the justice system. The fact is this country is one where you can get a second chance. That's the beauty of america. I'm patriotic. What I'm saying is that you can break the law, be punished, and if you have been truly rehabilitated, then you will leave prison and embrace your second chance at freedom and living a lawful life. Many people squander their second chance, but I love the USA because we are given a second chance.

In some countries, there is no second chance. A[B]nd it is obvious that Vick has been truly rehabilitated, he is sorry for what he's done, paid his punishment, and now wants to live his life and continue doing what he loves (NFL Football).[/B][/quote]

I disagree with this statement. Vick is not rehabilitated. Prison is continually filled with repeat offenders who were once "rehabilitated" Why are they back? People don't want to hire ex cons. Ex cons are also barred from holding certain jobs period. Why was Vick able to make more of his second chance? He has genetically superior talents that other ex cons lack. He is intelligent enough to realize he has been given a second chance and will try not to screw it up. But rehabilitated? no way. You wouldn't allow a hand gun offender to go and purchase a gun, or a person who has been convicted of child abuse wouldn't be allowed to adopt a child. Very similar situation.

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;769604]I disagree with this statement. Vick is not rehabilitated. Prison is continually filled with repeat offenders who were once "rehabilitated" Why are they back? People don't want to hire ex cons. Ex cons are also barred from holding certain jobs period. Why was Vick able to make more of his second chance? He has genetically superior talents that other ex cons lack. He is intelligent enough to realize he has been given a second chance and will try not to screw it up. But rehabilitated? no way. You wouldn't allow a hand gun offender to go and purchase a gun, or a person who has been convicted of child abuse wouldn't be allowed to adopt a child. Very similar situation.[/quote]
So it's assured he's gonna start up another one of those dogfighting rings and once he pays off his creditors, there's going to be Bad Newz Kennelz 2.0. Gotcha. Because that's what he has to "rehab" out of his system.

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=skinsnut;769558]3 points...

1. I agree that others with crimes against humans were not harsh enough.
(My position is that ex cons should not play in the NFL)

2. The issue of banning someone for LIFE from his profession because he is a violent felon is fairly universal. I am a Recruiter....believe me...if you have gone to jail for comitting a violent crime...your career is basically done....regardless of what it is....but especially in any position of visibility that represents the company/organization.....let me ask you this question....if Vick was interviewing for an office manager job...would you hire him....or someone that hasn't been to prison?
Let's be realistic.

3. Regarding forgiveness....I believe that forgiving someone for the wrongs that they are truly remorseful for is the right thing to do...however...it does not mean that the repercussions of the action vanish...Vick will and should pay the price for his actions long after he has been forgiven. Forgiving does not mean putting a foolish man with a violent past in a position to be a hero to our youth. Who is the fool now?

Let me ask a question....how many Haynesworth jerseys are being sold?
how many Vick?....who has done the worse wrong?
Being a jerk...vs violently murdering dogs..
Isn't that seriously screwed up?....kids buying Vick jersey's and bragging about how awesome he is?....and their father's feeding them that garbage?
Hopefully, Dad's in Philly are having a good sit down with their kids about Vick when their kids want a Vick jersey and explain why they shouldn't wear one.

I personally wish the guy well and hope he has learned..but I think the NFL "sold out" and are hypocrites for saying they won't tolerate violence or drugs...then let it continue and provide the benefit of fame and fortune to the worst violators. The NFL is dropping the ball in the name of money....really sad.

[B]I wonder what the NCAA would do to a guy like Vick[/B]?[/quote]

we already found out, you forget about marcus? great post btw. i'm in the same boat as you the biggest culprit is the nfl. they claim to be hardass but contradict themselves almost every day

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;769606]So it's assured he's gonna start up another one of those dogfighting rings and once he pays off his creditors, there's going to be Bad Newz Kennelz 2.0. Gotcha. Because that's what he has to "rehab" out of his system.[/quote]

Generally, [I]real[/I] rehabilitation requires more than merely "doing your time". It means exhibiting a change of heart over a long period of time such that people can reasonably and credibly trust that you will not relapse into the problem behavior. IMO, other than for long term prisoners, rehabilitation doesn't really even begin until a person reenters society. Only then can the individual begin to compile the evidence that they have had a true change of heart.

To me, that's the key for Vick. Let's see how he does after the fame and glory go away. Is he still concerned about doing the right thing? Does he maintain his good works? Only after an extended period of time can we tell if Vick has truly rehabilitated himself and agreed to conform to societal norms.

BTW - As others have stated, excellent post skinsnut. I particularly agree with point No. 3, and, also, with the NFL's hypocrisy when it comes to violent behavior.

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;769617]Generally, [I]real[/I] rehabilitation requires more than merely "doing your time". It means exhibiting a change of heart over a long period of time such that people can reasonably and credibly trust that you will not relapse into the problem behavior. IMO, other than for long term prisoners, rehabilitation doesn't really even begin until a person reenters society. Only then can the individual begin to compile the evidence that they have had a true change of heart.

To me, that's the key for Vick. Let's see how he does after the fame and glory go away. Is he still concerned about doing the right thing? Does he maintain his good works? Only after an extended period of time can we tell if Vick has truly rehabilitated himself and agreed to conform to societal norms.

BTW - As others have stated, excellent post skinsnut. I particularly agree with point No. 3, and, also, with the NFL's hypocrisy when it comes to violent behavior.[/quote]

I'm quite aware of that. But fellas like you believe that he's so filthy that there is no hope for him. What about all the guys he grew up around who exposed him to such an environment? They need to have a fixing too. How shall that be implemented?

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

Also, Vick was serving time for an illegal interstate gambling operation. That's what he was tried for and convicted of. Technically, he has not served any time for dogfighting itself.

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

First, please don't generalize about my beliefs - I try hard not to do so about others. True, I think what he did was indescribably evil. I don't think, however, that "there's no hope for him". "Fellas like me" firmly believe in redemption of the spirit. I just don't think redemption is something purchased easily - Vick has seemingly made a good start towards redemption but that is long road and Vick has barely walked the first mile.

As to all those guys who exposed him to such an environment? You know what - some will get the fixing they deserve, but, as always in life, some who deserve to be punished will skate on. It happens in all levels of society, not just in the circle Vick grew up in. All we can do as a society, is hold Vick responsible for his actions. He committed his actions, not the "culture" he was raised in. Just b/c lots of different parts of society needs "fixing", doesn't mean individuals who commit despicable acts should have those actions whitewashed.

Do you think Vick's cohorts in crime are being treated better than he? I sincerely doubt it. For sooo many jobs, if he weren't "Michael Vick, NFL QB", Vick would simply be DQ'd. Period, end of story. His co-conspirators don't have the physical talents that make them everyone's media darling ("Oh, look, Vick is throwing touchdowns, let's help him get 'rehabilitated'!"). No, it is more likely they will actually have to really work at [I]re[/I]gaining society's trust.

As I said, sure there is hope for Vick's redemption. From your posts, however, you appear to think redemption is something to be [I]given[/I] based on jail time and a few good acts done while in the spotlight of fame and fortune. I, on the other hand, believe it to be something purchased much more dearly.

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=SirClintonPortis;769624]Also, Vick was serving time for an illegal interstate gambling operation. That's what he was tried for and convicted of. Technically, he has not served any time for dogfighting itself.[/quote]

Yes, and the Civil War was "technically" about State's Rights. That was the legal tenet upon which the southern states based their ability to secede from the United States - slavery had nothing to do with it.

Vick was convicted for participating in an illegal interstate gambing operation [I]based on dogfighting.[/I] He pled guilty to "Conspiracy to Travel in Interstate Commerce in Aid of Unlawful Activities and to Sponsor a Dog in an Animal Fighting Venture". As part of the plea bargain and as factual admissions, Vick admitted to providing most of the financing for the operation and to participating directly in several dog fights in Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina and South Carolina. He admitted to sharing in the proceeds from these dog fights. He further admitted that he knew his colleagues killed several dogs who did not perform well. He admitted to being involved in the destruction of 6–8 dogs, by hanging or drowning. The "victimization and killing of pit bulls" was considered as aggravating circumstances that led prosecutors to exceed the federal sentencing guidelines for the charge.

First you give away redemption, now you minimize the violent and inherently deceitful nature of his original actions by mischaracterizing them? Maybe I'm misreading you, but It seems to me, you just don't think what he did was all that wrong.

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;769628]First, please don't generalize about my beliefs - I try hard not to do so about others. True, I think what he did was indescribably evil. I don't think, however, that "there's no hope for him". "Fellas like me" firmly believe in redemption of the spirit. I just don't think redemption is something purchased easily - Vick has seemingly made a good start towards redemption but that is long road and Vick has barely walked the first mile.

As to all those guys who exposed him to such an environment? You know what - some will get the fixing they deserve, but, as always in life, some who deserve to be punished will skate on. It happens in all levels of society, not just in the circle Vick grew up in. All we can do as a society, is hold Vick responsible for his actions. He committed his actions, not the "culture" he was raised in. Just b/c lots of different parts of society needs "fixing", doesn't mean individuals who commit despicable acts should have those actions whitewashed.

Do you think Vick's cohorts in crime are being treated better than he? I sincerely doubt it. For sooo many jobs, if he weren't "Michael Vick, NFL QB", Vick would simply be DQ'd. Period, end of story. His co-conspirators don't have the physical talents that make them everyone's media darling ("Oh, look, Vick is throwing touchdowns, let's help him get 'rehabilitated'!"). No, it is more likely they will actually have to really work at [I]re[/I]gaining society's trust.

As I said, sure there is hope for Vick's redemption. From your posts, however, you appear to think redemption is something to be [I]given[/I] based on jail time and a few good acts done while in the spotlight of fame and fortune. I, on the other hand, believe it to be something purchased much more dearly.[/quote]

very, very well said

Re: Michael Vick Wants to Get a Dog (Seriously)
 

For a society that professes to pride itself on forgiveness and second chances, some find it very difficult to live down the first chance.

TBH two years ago, I didn't think I'd ever see Vick in the position he's in right now. Watching him being interviewed on NFL Network last week, I was just thinking to myself how far he has come from being written off by so many of his critics. I just hope he continues to maintain his direction, he's paid his dues, he should be allowed to have a dog or anything else legally within his right.