Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

IMO to find the very worst of Vinny I have to go back prior to the last two yrs. Within that two yr. framework for me clearly his worst move was the JT trade. What was worse than the trade itself was the reason he gave for making it.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

I think it was the Jason Taylor move. It showed how little understanding Vinny had of Blache's scheme. At the time Blache was running a scheme where DEs weren't set free to rush the passer, they defended the run first and foremost. That was Taylor's huge weakness in his game.

That trade was as if Vinny didn't have the slightest inkling of how Blache runs things.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=warpaint;644741]

DS: You dont think he would talk to the press about the way we might possible miss use him? You remember Adam did.
[/quote]
heh

[URL="http://web.warpathconfidential.com/?p=2703"]Hey, hey, hey — Albert has something to say*|*Warpath Confidential[/URL]

[quote]
“It’s very frustrating coming from Tennessee, going 10-0 [where] I kinda had the freedom to rush and get upfield and to pressure the quarterback,” said Haynesworth at his locker after the Giants loss. “It’s totally different than what I thought here. If they’d let us loose, it’d be a whole lot better. [At Tennessee] I just rushed and they let me go and we won a bunch of games and we was up there in the top two or three on defense and sacks. Maybe we need to try that here.”

Maybe they need to try a lot of things here, he said.

“I don’t think this team is that bad,” Haynesworth said. “Players ain’t that bad. The score, the record say that we’re horrible, but I’ve been around these guys a lot. I think they know how to play football. I just think we’re all going in different directions and we need somebody to lead us in the right direction. You can take that however you want to.”
[/quote]

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=davy;644735]I hate having to stand up for Vinny, but somebody has to.

Most of what people consider the worst recent moves fall squarely on the shoulders of Joe Gibbs.

LLoyd, Archuletta, El, Duckett, all arrived when he was calling the shots.

I loved Gibbs first time around but let's put the blame where it should be.[/quote]

they all should be accountable to me. gibbs 2.0 would have had something going for it if we hired bruce allen then instead of vinny but they all should be held accountable.. i love gibbs the first time around and for the second coming it didn,t workout but the effort was there and it wasn,t there after he left again but your right.
we must move on from here with bruce allen and whoever he brings in as coach..maybe then they will trade a few to get back some draft picks cause we need them now.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=over the mountain;644743]
warpaint - it has been rumored the giants offered more than the skins, somthing like 103 to 108 mil. i personally like how the AH contract is set up assuming next year is uncapped and 20+ mil of the guaranteed money he is set to get next year actually gets done and off the books going forward after next year.[/quote]

What would his contract look like after next year uncapped.So if I got this right next year if it is uncapped we can pay the majority of any undesirable contracts with out penalty and renegotate.

What i mean is next year we owe a guy like 75 million and he has 5 years left. We can pay 70 mil next year and split the remainder equally with out penalty or am I way off.

Could you explain.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[B][U]Talent Evaluation[/U][/B]
Plain and simple what has been our biggest failure is our inability to fill our roster enough with quality players. From our QB to our last Special Team player, finding a quality of player at each slot.
I know Smootsmack is looking for a particular player decision or two.
But IMO what really sunk our team is talent evaluation and how that caused the lack of number(s) on our roster.
We usually did fine with high 1st round picks but we failed everywhere else and in FA.
A real good measure is looking at what undrafted rookie players we have been able to unearth over the years. Those undrafted steals that can fill out your roster and can become a Joe Jacoby. Our Joe Jacoby was Stephen Heyer.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=warpaint;644758]
Could you explain.[/quote]

you need to talk with or read schneed10's threads in the salary cap section, he is the cap guru. but it's my understnading that there are percentage limits on accelerating contracts that wouldnt allow teams to do what you suggest.

im pretty sure AH is owed a 20+ mil signing bonus next year. i think the contract was structured this way to take advantage of the expected uncapped year next year.

im really the wrong guy to ask.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

JT trade w/o a doubt. It's already been said but that 2nd rounder could have been used for an 0-linemen or even a LB or RB. JT had no business here in GB's scheme. And even the thought that he could replace MW at LB was a joke. We had Evans, Wilson, who came on the season before, and Jackson who could have played that spot, and we lose a chance (2nd rounder) to draft someone who could have possibly contributed for 10 years. Pure BS move.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

The taylor move. Even if Taylor didn't get hurt he was a guy the coaches didn't want, didn't fit the system and we had other options on the roster. He replaced a brute force run-stopping end with a finesse LB/Rush-end hybrid. Donkey move.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=over the mountain;644765]you need to talk with or read schneed10's threads in the salary cap section, he is the cap guru. but it's my understnading that there are percentage limits on accelerating contracts that wouldnt allow teams to do what you suggest.

im pretty sure AH is owed a 20+ mil signing bonus next year. i think the contract was structured this way to take advantage of the expected uncapped year next year.

im really the wrong guy to ask.[/quote]

You helped out more than you know. Hell the way we spend and sign all these crazy contracts I just figured if the team and player were good with it that was fine. But Schneed10 I'll do that thanks.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

Minus the injuries Jason Taylor could have worked out better if he was used properly by Blache, but then again that falls back on Vinny for basically forcing a player upon a coach.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=Mattyk;644787]Minus the injuries Jason Taylor could have worked out better if he was used properly by Blache, but then again that falls back on Vinny for basically forcing a player upon a coach.[/quote]

I still think that the trade for TJ Duckett was worst than the JT trade. I guess with Vinny it has been a string of f' ups, but that Duckett trade takes the cake. I know he wasn't totally in charged when it happened and it doesn't fall within the parameters of thread, but it's hard not to think about it.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

I was ok w/ the Jason Taylor trade as long as we had him for 2 years. Then of course the FO botched that one. You would have thought the FO would have talked to JT about his offseason workouts prior to sending 2 draft picks to the Phins.

I think VC worst move was Jim Zorn. I like JZ and he's a good guy, but he just wasn't ready for a HC position. He also hired him before we got a head coach. I think he wanted Jim F. but the outcry from fans left him to make a last minute change. That whole debacle plus the whole Gregg Williams smear campaign was vintage VC. So, that whole coaching search was f'd up.

You would have thought that our FO would not have been blown away at JG's retiring. He's was old and had family issues. That should not have been a shock. VC should have already had a good feel for replacements. He didn't.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

The way he always tried to explain himself after the draft with best player available as to why he didn't draft O-Lineman when other positions of need were drafted in pairs. However to actually see the true "worst of Vinny" you need to look no further then the release fees for a handful of players past their prime. Bruce Allen has his work cut out for him if the CBA gets passed.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

Reading is one of my strengths, but my eyes kinda glaze over when Vinny is the topic that I'm addressing. But really, is there a worst of Vinny? Let's see, I can name some moves that I'd rather not have seen made. For example,

1. Trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick for Clinton Portis. Bailey is a Hall of Famer!
2. Trading a 3rd round pick for Mark Brunell, who was going to be released by the Jaguars anyway. We could've had him for no picks!
3. Trading two picks to SF for Brandon Lloyd
4. Signing Albert to an Arenas-like contract ($111 M) when he could've tried signing two cornerbacks and a safety for the same dollars!
5. Drafting LaRon Landry, who ends up being a bust akin to Adam Archuleta, but seriously, I didn't even see this one coming, nor did most everyone else!
6. Trading 2 picks for Jason Taylor for two years, then letting him go after one year of injury-filled plays.
7. Drafting Chad Rinehart and THEN finding out he can't play any line position.
8. Trading a 3rd round pick for TJ Duckett and then not using him for any plays at all. This 3rd round choice could've been used for an offensive lineman!

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=JLee9718;644834]Reading is one of my strengths, but my eyes kinda glaze over when Vinny is the topic that I'm addressing. But really, is there a worst of Vinny? Let's see, I can name some moves that I'd rather not have seen made. For example,

1. Trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick for Clinton Portis. Bailey is a Hall of Famer!
2. Trading a 3rd round pick for Mark Brunell, who was going to be released by the Jaguars anyway. We could've had him for no picks!
3. Trading two picks to SF for Brandon Lloyd
4. Signing Albert to an Arenas-like contract ($111 M) when he could've tried signing two cornerbacks and a safety for the same dollars!
5. Drafting LaRon Landry, who ends up being a bust akin to Adam Archuleta, but seriously, I didn't even see this one coming, nor did most everyone else!
6. Trading 2 picks for Jason Taylor for two years, then letting him go after one year of injury-filled plays.
7. Drafting Chad Rinehart and THEN finding out he can't play any line position.
8. Trading a 3rd round pick for TJ Duckett and then not using him for any plays at all. This 3rd round choice could've been used for an offensive lineman![/quote]

1. Doesn't apply to this thread
2. Doesn't apply to this thread
3. Doesn't apply to this thread
4. Fair enough
5. Doesn't apply to this thread
6. Most popular choice it seems
7. Don't give up on Rhino yet
8. Doesn't apply to this thread

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

Its a trick question.........right?

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=Hog1;644869]Its a trick question.........right?[/quote]

no that would be the other thread, the best of vinny

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

How about keeping Blache as the D-coordinator this long?

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=JLee9718;644834]Reading is one of my strengths, but my eyes kinda glaze over when Vinny is the topic that I'm addressing. But really, is there a worst of Vinny? Let's see, I can name some moves that I'd rather not have seen made. For example,

1. Trading Champ Bailey AND a 2nd round pick for Clinton Portis. Bailey is a Hall of Famer!
2. Trading a 3rd round pick for Mark Brunell, who was going to be released by the Jaguars anyway. We could've had him for no picks!
3. Trading two picks to SF for Brandon Lloyd
4. Signing Albert to an Arenas-like contract ($111 M) when he could've tried signing two cornerbacks and a safety for the same dollars!
5. Drafting LaRon Landry, who ends up being a bust akin to Adam Archuleta, but seriously, I didn't even see this one coming, nor did most everyone else!
6. Trading 2 picks for Jason Taylor for two years, then letting him go after one year of injury-filled plays.
7. Drafting Chad Rinehart and THEN finding out he can't play any line position.
8. Trading a 3rd round pick for TJ Duckett and then not using him for any plays at all. This 3rd round choice could've been used for an offensive lineman![/quote]You can blame Joe Gibbs for 1, 2, 3, 5, and 8. Gibbs had [B]final[/B] say on all of those moves.

I will say that Vinny trading a #2 and #6 to "rent" Jason Taylor for one season was his worst. It perpetuated the [I]Snyder Doctrine[/I] of tossing away draft picks like confetti.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

[quote=SmootSmack;644842]1. Doesn't apply to this thread
2. Doesn't apply to this thread
3. Doesn't apply to this thread
4. Fair enough
5. Doesn't apply to this thread
6. Most popular choice it seems
7. Don't give up on Rhino yet
8. Doesn't apply to this thread[/quote]

Where is PWNED when you need him?

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

To me, it's Jason Taylor hands down. We apparently didn't need him when Phillip Daniels was healthy. Then Daniels tears up his knee, and all of a sudden, Taylor is now a good idea. People bought it, but you're allowed to check with your defensive coordinator to see if he's capable of running a zone-heavy scheme before you trade two valuable picks for a guy on the last year of his contract.

DeAngelo Hall is a close second, but he at least managed to get a free look without giving up a draft pick, and if nothing else, Hall has seven picks for us, which is worth at least as much as Taylor's 3.5 sacks and one forced fumble, everything else equal.

Re: The Worst of Vinny
 

hopefully, the new structure will keep this from happening again. i mean bringing in players that don't fit the system