[quote=SUNRA]I'll say it again. 2 INTS in 5 games. 3 fumbles in 5 games. I'll take a ball thrown out of bounds over a sack or a forced pass like Ramsey has made a career of . Ramsey has thrown more INTs in one game than Brunell in 5 games. But I know, he had the pressure on him to dig us out of a hole that Brunell put us in. Well I'm here to tell you Ramsey won't be able to dig us out of a four game losing streak either.[/quote]

brunell cost us 21 points, ramsey cost 0... brunell has been sacked a bunch this year if you forgot ;)

i'll take a shot over throwing the ball away on 3rd and 1 any day, its not working. I'm here to tell YOU not to be functionally fixated on 3 plays and look at the entire performance. BRUNELL IS SUCKING, [b]HARD[/b].

ramsey throws more TDs than INTs and has way less fumbles returned for touchdowns (0). Brunell at this point has given up more points than he's scored... ramsey is +7. If you want to judge ramsey, give him an entire week with the first string and an entire game where he doesn't start 14 points behind with an abandoned running game.

I think it’s important to look beyond just the yards per attempt (YPA). Remember in the Bucs game, Brunell threw a lot of passes in the flat to Coles that were basically the same as a running play. A more telling statistic-which I don’t have-is yards after catch (YAC). If Brunell places the ball where the receiver doesn’t have to break his stride and he does it often enough, it increases the efficiency of the offense no matter where the ball is caught. Unfortunately, we’ve seen more often than not that a lot of Brunell’s passes over the middle, particularly to Coles, have been overthrown and that’s forced Coles to break his stride and it’s hurt the offense.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]I'll say it again. 2 INTS in 5 games. 3 fumbles in 5 games. I'll take a ball thrown out of bounds over a sack or a forced pass like Ramsey has made a career of . Ramsey has thrown more INTs in one game than Brunell in 5 games. But I know, he had the pressure on him to dig us out of a hole that Brunell put us in. Well I'm here to tell you Ramsey won't be able to dig us out of a four game losing streak either.[/QUOTE]


If Brunell tried to make a play he may have a few INT's, but he doesn't, half the guy's on this board, could take a snap from center, drop back and throw it away if there's not a blown coverage 5yd's over the line of scrimmage, Ramsey moves the ball, he will also limit his mistakes as he learn's, further more you keep comparing his stat's under SS, not fair, how many times did he have a chance to look down field, very rare, most of the time he was lucky to set himself to throw, I will guarentee you Ramsey will succeed under Gibb's if given a fair shot, Brunell is a veteran, what's the hold up. Right now we are not going to run the ball until we start proving that we can throw it, Ramsey will do that, and yes I think he's capable of digging us out of this hole, the one the Brunell has put us in, Remember regardless of the rest of the team, he has served up 3 TD's in 3 different games, 2 of which probably cost us the game.

Sunra, with your logic Brett Favre would have never made it in this league, the guy took more chances, and through more INT's when he started out than most QB's early in their carreer's, yet he turned out to be a fairly decent QB, wouldn't you say.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Gmanc711:

Let me try one more time. Yards per attempt is a statistic but it is not "all anyone needs to see".

Patrick Ramsey's yards per attempt for his career is 6.61

Donovan McNabb's yards per attempt for his career is 6.28.

Vinny Testaverde's yards per attempt for his career is 6.92.

Tom Brady's yards per pass attempt for his career is 6.74.

If that is all anyone needs to see, then the Eagles would be thrilled to trade McNabb for Ramsey even-up. You can't believe that.

If that is all anyone needs to see, then Ramsey for Testaverde would be a great way to screw over the Cowboys. Do you like that proposed trade?

The difference between Tom Brady and Patrick Ramsey is less than 5 inches per pass attempt. If that is all anyone needs to see, would you say that Ramsey is about 5 inches away from two Super Bowl MVP Awards? He's not - yet!

By the way, Tom Brady has been pretty successful in his three and a quarter seasons so far. (I'm not counting 2000 where he got into only one game and threw only 3 passes.) In those three and a quarter years, he has completed only 19 passes of more than 40 yards; that comes to about one every eleven quarters of football. My point is that you can be pretty efficient and effective as a QB throwing a lot of short stuff as long as you complete a lot of them; you don't have to throw it downfield all the time. What you need to be successful is a complete team around you. Tom Brady has that; Ramsey/Brunell/Hasselbeck/Hamden/Whomever does not have that in Washington just now. There's more to it that yards per pass attempt and frustration with the play calling that does not have enough fly patterns to suit your preferences.

So, my point is that there is MORE to see and more to observe and more to analyze than yards per passing attempt - unless of course the number is ZERO and then you would indeed have all the info you needed to see.[/QUOTE]


Alright, I understand what your saying. You're right.

[QUOTE=smootsmack]Unfortunately, we’ve seen more often than not that a lot of Brunell’s passes over the middle, particularly to Coles, have been overthrown and that’s forced Coles to break his stride and it’s hurt the offense.[/QUOTE]
You bring up a good point. Also another item to consider is how Brunell's throws have led Coles into two devastating hits, one by Roy Williams the other by Ray Lewis. If Brunell keeps leading his wideouts into knockouts, then an 83yd performance, may end up the norm for this team.

If you keep leading recivers into hits, eventually they arent going to be as agressive across the middle anymore. However, all the QBs do that somtimes, and its football, they are going to get hit. I dont really fault Brunell for that.

The problem with Brunell is that he is not [I]leading [/I] the receivers with his passes. He throws it too soft or too short, which allows the defenders to catch up and make the hit, so there are less yards after the catch. Yes there have been a few exceptions, and Ramsey would probably throw too hard and overthrow it at times, but he would at least have the ability to put the ball in front of the receiver where he has the best (and only) chance to catch it....as opposed to the "jump balls" Brunell has been throwing. Plus for shorter passes, his strong arm would get the ball there quicker, and give the receiver more of a chance to start moving before getting hit.

[QUOTE=That Guy]brunell cost us 21 points, ramsey cost 0... brunell has been sacked a bunch this year if you forgot ;)

i'll take a shot over throwing the ball away on 3rd and 1 any day, its not working. I'm here to tell YOU not to be functionally fixated on 3 plays and look at the entire performance. BRUNELL IS SUCKING, [b]HARD[/b].

ramsey throws more TDs than INTs and has way less fumbles returned for touchdowns (0). Brunell at this point has given up more points than he's scored... ramsey is +7. If you want to judge ramsey, give him an entire week with the first string and an entire game where he doesn't start 14 points behind with an abandoned running game.[/QUOTE

Ramsey did practice with the first team and sucked hard. That's why he didn't start against Dallas. He's not even close to being ready to lead this team.

[quote]Ramsey did practice with the first team and sucked hard. That's why he didn't start against Dallas. He's not even close to being ready to lead this team.[/quote]

and you know this because you went and saw the practices first hand, right?

sorry, that's not very convincing, gibbs has a history of sticking with QBs well after their skills have left them, and I think we're just seeing that again.

[QUOTE=That Guy]and you know this because you went and saw the practices first hand, right?

sorry, that's not very convincing, gibbs has a history of sticking with QBs well after their skills have left them, and I think we're just seeing that again.[/QUOTE]

If the way Ramsey practices doesn't qualify Gibbs to bench him then blame Gibbs for not having the intelligence to distinguish the two. I think action speaks louder than words. If Brunell puts up the numbers against Chicago that he put up against Dallas, he keeps his job.

i totally agree with that SUNRA, but gibbs sticks with QBs even when they really really suck... go look at his first stint, i don't think any coach is nearly as loyal to their starting QBs as gibbs is... even when its hurting the team.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]If the way Ramsey practices doesn't qualify Gibbs to bench him then blame Gibbs for not having the intelligence to distinguish the two. I think action speaks louder than words. If Brunell puts up the numbers against Chicago that he put up against Dallas, he keeps his job.[/QUOTE]


Which number are you talking about, I know it's not a number in the win column.

He threw the ball up for grab's twice to Gardner, and Gardner made 2 absolutly spectacular catches for close to 100 yard's, the cowboy's are lousy this year, and he couldn't beat them, end of story.

If action's speak louder than word's, Brunell would be on the bench, because his action's on the field have been pitiful.

Well Stated SC!
 

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Gmanc711:


Patrick Ramsey's yards per attempt for his career is 6.61

Donovan McNabb's yards per attempt for his career is 6.28.

Vinny Testaverde's yards per attempt for his career is 6.92.

Tom Brady's yards per pass attempt for his career is 6.74.


[/QUOTE]


Very well stated! What whould we gain from inserting P. Ram for M. Brunell?

A whole yard and a half!

But Ram doesn't have the head for the game that Brunell has.

I never wanted the trade for Brunell. I'm liking it less and less each day!

Gibbs must really have no faith at all in PR as a QB. If he had even a glimmer he would have given him some playing time considering how bad MB has played.

I am afraid the skins will be spending another drifat pick this spring on a QB.

[QUOTE=irish]Gibbs must really have no faith at all in PR as a QB. If he had even a glimmer he would have given him some playing time considering how bad MB has played.

I am afraid the skins will be spending another drifat pick this spring on a QB.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that is the case at all. Gibbs is and has always been the type of coach that views the QB as the leader of the team, and because of that, he will only switch QB's as a last resort....as others have pointed out from his previous tenure. That combined with the fact that while Brunell has certainly not played well, the entire offense has been struggling. If either Brunell or Portis can get things going, the other one will follow...