Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;606238][B]This organization is a fucking mess.[/B] That said, Zorn has been a failure in DC.[/quote]

That's the real bottom line. Zorn will be gone soon but ultimately this team's total failure starts at the very top. I think when you look at how Snyder managed Gibbs retirement, from beginning to end, this franchise competes for the most poorly run in the league. Of course Snyder's utter failures as an owner and de facto GM go back to the very beginning but I've heard over and over again contributors to this site say "Leave the past alone and recognize how Snyder has matured." Well ok then I'll focus just on the current situation...and still lil Danny doesn't have the first clue how to put a decent franchise together.

...ultimately Snyder deserves the embarrassment and failure. Zorn doesn't...he was just some random QB coach who was offered a big promotion well beyond his abilities. The players don't deserve it...they don't have any real leadership to look upon and are caught up within a mickey mouse organization. And finally we don't deserve any of this as fans. I do wish I could tune into the game one Sunday and see FedEx field completely empty. I wish determination would overcome apathy and fans would force the little man in the owner's box to sell the franchise he's nearly destroyed or completely turn the thing over to a real GM.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Bye week zorn is gone!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

I don't blame Zorn. I blame Cerrato and Snyder for the whole mess. And boy what a mess they've made for themselves. Kills me thinking about wasting our 2 #2s last year on non existant WR's. We coulda had atleast 1 OL. I say let B Mitch coach em up.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=ForkLifter;606294]If it were a decision between Cerrato and my 4 year old dog, I'd pick the dog. At least she would maybe pick a couple o-linemen in the draft.[/quote]

If anything, she'd at least pee all over Cerrato.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Luxorreb;606298]I don't blame Zorn. I blame Cerrato and Snyder for the whole mess. And boy what a mess they've made for themselves. Kills me thinking about wasting our 2 #2s last year on non existant WR's. We coulda had atleast 1 OL. I say let B Mitch coach em up.[/quote]

The thing is Snyder and cerrato arent going anywhere...you kinda have to suck it up and eat those apples. BLame if you must but the only thing that is ging o change is the coach and the players

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=The Goat;606295]That's the real bottom line. Zorn will be gone soon but ultimately this team's total failure starts at the very top. I think when you look at how Snyder managed Gibbs retirement, from beginning to end, this franchise competes for the most poorly run in the league. Of course Snyder's utter failures as an owner and de facto GM go back to the very beginning but I've heard over and over again contributors to this site say "Leave the past alone and recognize how Snyder has matured." Well ok then I'll focus just on the current situation...and still lil Danny doesn't have the first clue how to put a decent franchise together.

...ultimately Snyder deserves the embarrassment and failure. Zorn doesn't...he was just some random QB coach who was offered a big promotion well beyond his abilities. The players don't deserve it...they don't have any real leadership to look upon and are caught up within a mickey mouse organization. And finally we don't deserve any of this as fans. I do wish I could tune into the game one Sunday and see FedEx field completely empty. I wish determination would overcome apathy and fans would force the little man in the owner's box to sell the franchise he's nearly destroyed or completely turn the thing over to a real GM.[/quote]

Yeah, that about sums it up for me. Join the Mutiny Goat!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Even if we get what we want and Cerrato is fired a GM brought in and Snyder steps back and lets somebody else make decisions. How long will it take for things to get better on the playing field?

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=The Goat;606295]That's the real bottom line. Zorn will be gone soon but ultimately this team's total failure starts at the very top. I think when you look at how Snyder managed Gibbs retirement, from beginning to end, this franchise competes for the most poorly run in the league. Of course Snyder's utter failures as an owner and de facto GM go back to the very beginning but I've heard over and over again contributors to this site say "Leave the past alone and recognize how Snyder has matured." Well ok then I'll focus just on the current situation...and still lil Danny doesn't have the first clue how to put a decent franchise together.

...ultimately Snyder deserves the embarrassment and failure. Zorn doesn't...he was just some random QB coach who was offered a big promotion well beyond his abilities. The players don't deserve it...they don't have any real leadership to look upon and are caught up within a mickey mouse organization. And finally we don't deserve any of this as fans. I do wish I could tune into the game one Sunday and see FedEx field completely empty. I wish determination would overcome apathy and fans would force the little man in the owner's box to sell the franchise he's nearly destroyed or completely turn the thing over to a real GM.[/quote]

No truer words have ever been spoken, and poor Zorn is saddled with an albatross to great even for him to escape. We have all agreed at some point in time, this team needs far more than just a new/different coach, it's in dire need of respectable ownership.........Just so happens we're stuck with the little man.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;606304]Even if we get what we want and Cerrato is fired a GM brought in and Snyder steps back and lets somebody else make decisions. [B]How long will it take for things to get better on the playing field?[/B][/quote]

Minimum three years, and that assumes Snyder has exactly zero involvement with the team. You know what Baltimore...I have all the patience in the world when there's a goal, a light at the end of the tunnel. I can continue to enjoy Saints football...and besides I would really appreciate the franchise rebuilding itself into something special.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=The Goat;606295]That's the real bottom line. Zorn will be gone soon but ultimately this team's total failure starts at the very top. I think when you look at how Snyder managed Gibbs retirement, from beginning to end, this franchise competes for the most poorly run in the league. Of course Snyder's utter failures as an owner and de facto GM go back to the very beginning but I've heard over and over again contributors to this site say "Leave the past alone and recognize how Snyder has matured." Well ok then I'll focus just on the current situation...and still lil Danny doesn't have the first clue how to put a decent franchise together.

...ultimately Snyder deserves the embarrassment and failure. Zorn doesn't...he was just some random QB coach who was offered a big promotion well beyond his abilities. The players don't deserve it...they don't have any real leadership to look upon and are caught up within a mickey mouse organization. And finally we don't deserve any of this as fans. I do wish I could tune into the game one Sunday and see FedEx field completely empty. I wish determination would overcome apathy and [B]fans would force the little man in the owner's box to sell the franchise he's nearly destroyed or completely turn the thing over to a real GM.[/B][/quote]

Great post, Goat. As to the point in bold, you just let me know how we can force him to sell and I'm on it.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=BaltimoreSkins;606304][B]Even if we get what we want and Cerrato is fired[/B] a GM brought in and Snyder steps back and lets somebody else make decisions. [B]How long will it take for things to get better on the playing field?[/B][/quote]

Well does it really matter. If Snyder puts on his high heels and borrows his nuts from his wife, and fires that lame duck. We should have a ticker tape freakin parade in downtown DC.

That would be the very BEST move he could and should make, it STARTS AT THE VERY TOP, and sense lil Danny sure isn't gonna fire himself....yes unfortunate for some.

The next best move would be Vinny, Zorn, Coaching Staff, Scouts, the whole 9. Let the new HC set the team up (If it were Shanny or any of the Top coachs available, I doubt any would work with Vinny to begin with) let the new HC set the program up with some real smart football minds, and keep lil man outta the way. If it takes a few years so be it.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;606303]Yeah, that about sums it up for me. Join the Mutiny Goat![/quote]

The only thing that will have any impact is dollars and cents. If fans refuse to be swindled by lil Danny and the home games are mostly empty than we have a fighting chance to see positive change.

...but yeah I see where you're goin bro :)

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Immediately after the Eagles game Zorn and Sherman Smith get fired. Doesn't make too much sense to make a move this week or prior to the Eagles game. Do it then, take one more run and Shanny and Holmgren then name Blache as HC and Lewis as OC for the rest of the year.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

It doesnt matter what the players are doing. Zorn made some horrible calls this game. Stretch on the GL when you know you are having problems with the play.

That warrants a firing.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Snyder needs to go, but for now I am a livid passionate fan. I want to see blood.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

zorn took a playoff team and ruined it. He went 6-2 in his first 8 games because he was coasting on Gibbs team. Once he instituted his own gameplan, things went downhill fast. Zorn is a horrible head coach and doesnt deserve to keep his job. That said, the problems with this organization start at the top with the owner and "gm" who hired zorn in the first place.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Peter King said Shanahan will NOT coach anywhere during the season and will likely clean house on the coaching staff wherever he ends up meaning Vinny would have to step down. FWIW, Mort said earlier this week that Vinny would have no problem doing that for the right guy because he's a team player.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Paintrain;606325]Peter King said Shanahan will NOT coach anywhere during the season and will likely clean house on the coaching staff wherever he ends up meaning Vinny would have to step down. FWIW, Mort said earlier this week that Vinny would have no problem doing that for the right guy because he's a team player.[/quote]

So if Vinny stepped down, he'd be out of the organization right???

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

I wish we had McDaniels. Did anybody see the fire he showed after beating the Pats?

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=SBprimetime;606328]I wish we had McDaniels. Did anybody see the fire he showed after beating the Pats?[/quote]

That was a good game. McDaniels appears to be for real.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Paintrain;606325]Peter King said Shanahan will NOT coach anywhere during the season and will likely clean house on the coaching staff wherever he ends up meaning Vinny would have to step down. FWIW, Mort said earlier this week that Vinny would have no problem doing that for the right guy because he's a team player.[/quote]

But Vinny will be drafting? Screw that, we need to fully clean house.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=SBprimetime;606328]I wish we had McDaniels. Did anybody see the fire he showed after beating the Pats?[/quote]

No need for the Skins to ruin someone else who has something going for them. Good luck to that guy, it was a great game and accomplishment for him to win vs the pats and be 5-0.

Shit wouldn't happen here though under our current management structure. It'd be a damn shame to see more young talent ruin themselves here.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Only firing Zorn is not the answer. Cerratto needs to get out as well.
I think everyone realizes that, that is why no top notch coach wants to come here while Cerratto and Snyder are running the FO.
Redskins fans need to voice their displeasure with the FO. Take signs/banners to the game demanding Cerratto get fired as well. Redskins fans need to stand up.
Viva la revolucion!
LOL!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=SBprimetime;606328]I wish we had McDaniels. Did anybody see the fire he showed after beating the Pats?[/quote]

Zorn had that same fire last year at 4-1...look at him now

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=The Goat;606314]The only thing that will have any impact is dollars and cents. If fans refuse to be swindled by lil Danny and the home games are mostly empty than we have a fighting chance to see positive change.

...but yeah I see where you're goin bro :)[/quote]


Just last Sunday when we were at the Bucs game we had the ocasion to discuss that very fact. What if (and it's a mighty big if) for one Sunday no fans showed up for the game. What better way to send a message? Danny Boy would be ready to hang the culprit that could be successful in coordinating such an effort, but it's a boycott I'd be more than willing to be a participant.

My signature is more than applicable here: Snyder and Co. are the few, we the fans are the many.........

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

i've never seen a coach as fired up as mcdaniels was after the pats game ... i'd kill to see just a taste of that on our sidelines

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;606341]i've never seen a coach as fired up as mcdaniels was after the pats game ... i'd kill to see just a taste of that on our sidelines[/quote]

When you are a Redskins fan, player or coach that fire is slowly and painfully ripped from you until all that is left is a broken spirit... That's just what piss poor egocentric management does to people...

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=hooskins;606332]But Vinny will be drafting? Screw that, we need to fully clean house.[/quote]

Eff it. Hire Jimmie Johnson as GM. Guys named Jimmie Johnson are winning right now. Which one would make a good GM, the coach or the driver? Flip a coin. Either side is better than Vinny.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=DCtoAZ;606341]i've never seen a coach as fired up as mcdaniels was after the pats game ... i'd kill to see just a taste of that on our sidelines[/quote]

No doubt. I thought the same thing. I'd be so fired up if I was a Broncos fan right now. And he may have been on to something when he passed on a chance at Campbell for Kyle Orton. Everyone laughed.......

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Zorny;606352]When you are a Redskins fan, [B]player or coach that fire is slowly and painfully ripped from you until all that is left is a broken spirit[/B]... That's just what piss poor egocentric management does to people...[/quote]

Well Jim I didn't know you were on the warpath? I was going to say welcome aboard but sinse you boat is getting ready to sail away, good luck!

BTW....winning cures all that broken spirit shit, for most! And for this FAN THE SPIRIT IS NEVER BROKEN!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Zorn will make it through the season (was 3rd yes vote) because firing him during the season doesn't accomplish anything. If you have to do something DS fire Vinny, hire a GM, and lets start this thing over.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

I think I am one of the more ardent Zorn supporters here (maybe not, whatever) but this loss may be the nail in the coffin. Not because we lost to an 0fer team AGAIN, but because, we had the lead, the offense capitalized on mistakes, and after the half, this team Offense and Defense came out dead. That is coaching, and players. I know the Front Office has a lot of the blame, but, the fact is that this team lost the game on the field, and it should have and could have won it, and that is the case with most every game in this past 2 year stretch.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;606370]I think I am one of the more ardent Zorn supporters here (maybe not, whatever) but this loss may be the nail in the coffin. Not because we lost to an 0fer team AGAIN, but because, we had the lead, the offense capitalized on mistakes, and after the half, this team Offense and Defense came out dead. That is coaching, and players. I know the Front Office has a lot of the blame, but, the fact is that this team lost the game on the field, and it should have and could have won it, and that is the case with most every game in this past 2 year stretch.[/quote]

Let's not forget though, that the two TDs came off Panther turnovers deep in their territory. Without those, we'd have 3 points.

As for Zorn, this decline would have happened even if Joe Gibbs were still coaching. The veteran core group of Samuels, Thomas, Rabach, Moss, Randle El, Portis, Griffin, Daniels, and Rogers just isn't very good anymore. The experienced, highly-paid vets are getting old, and the younger guys are lackluster or just flat haven't produced.

The deterioration of this roster is NOT Jim Zorn's fault.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

I'd say let Zorn finish out the year and figure what we have in our backups... but those two just don't go together

too many overpaid old guys killing out decent backups.. and a coach who needs to win

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Adam Schefter just reported that the writing is on the wall for Zorn- he will be fired, it's just a matter of when. If Snyder, Cerrato, the fans, the players, the media, and everyone else knows Zorn is a lame duck, why not just fire him now? It's pretty unprofessional and unfair to Zorn and the players to keep plodding on knowing what's gonna happen regardless. Eff the charade. He's knows he's done, why should anyone believe he won't just go through the motions this week and let another winless team off the hook against KC? If anything, maybe a fresh voice in the locker room can stir up some emotion in this hapless, gutless team.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Its in Mr. Gibbs part of the county and all, but Danny is getting his advise (From someone with a BRAIN)...COME ON BACK JOE! ;)

Snyder had dinner with Gibbs last night
Posted by Mike Florio on October 11, 2009 8:12 PM ET
Though it's surely not a precursor to another return to the sidelines in D.C., we're told that Redskins owner Daniel Snyder had dinner Saturday night with two-time former coach Joe Gibbs.

Per a league source, Snyder still consults with Gibbs, who retired for a second time after the 2007 season, about the team. And we've got a feeling that the two men at some point discussed the best way to navigate a disappointing season in D.C.

Some still believe that Snyder also consults with Mike Shanahan; a team source has flatly denied that contention. And as to lingering rumors that Shanahan will be the next coach of the team, Peter King reported on NBC's Football Night In America that Shanahan definitely will not taking a head-coaching job anywhere during the 2009 season, but that Shanahan will jump back into the fray in January.

It makes plenty of sense. Shanahan has less leverage if only one team wants him; he'll have plenty of leverage come January, if multiple teams come calling.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

Adam Schefter reports that Zorn [B][I][U]WILL[/U][/I][/B] be fired mid-season and the only question is when.

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;606393]Its in Mr. Gibbs part of the county and all, but Danny is getting his advise (From someone with a BRAIN)...COME ON BACK JOE! ;)

Snyder had dinner with Gibbs last night
Posted by Mike Florio on October 11, 2009 8:12 PM ET
Though it's surely not a precursor to another return to the sidelines in D.C., we're told that Redskins owner Daniel Snyder had dinner Saturday night with two-time former coach Joe Gibbs.

Per a league source, Snyder still consults with Gibbs, who retired for a second time after the 2007 season, about the team. And we've got a feeling that the two men at some point discussed the best way to navigate a disappointing season in D.C.

Some still believe that Snyder also consults with Mike Shanahan; a team source has flatly denied that contention. And as to lingering rumors that Shanahan will be the next coach of the team, Peter King reported on NBC's Football Night In America that Shanahan definitely will not taking a head-coaching job anywhere during the 2009 season, but that Shanahan will jump back into the fray in January.

It makes plenty of sense. Shanahan has less leverage if only one team wants him; he'll have plenty of leverage come January, if multiple teams come calling.[/quote]

hell no

i love gibbs but he in charge of personnel traded more picks than vinny and whatnot

idk

i don't even know what to think now

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Luxorreb;606298]I don't blame Zorn. I blame Cerrato and Snyder for the whole mess. And boy what a mess they've made for themselves. Kills me thinking about wasting our 2 #2s last year on non existant WR's. We coulda had atleast 1 OL. [B]I say let B Mitch coach em up[/B].[/quote]

Im all for that!!

Re: Do you expect Zorn to be fired
 

[quote=Longtimefan;606219]This team has so many areas of dysfunction, firing the coach is just a small beginning to what really needs to be done to get this team back on track. Some players should be looking over their shoulders as well.[/quote]

~~~~~
Agreed. Bringing in another coach is not going to solve this problem. It is time to clean house in the locker room and in the front office.