Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=12thMan;592037]Someone once said [B]stats tell you everything and they tell you nothing.[/B] In fact, I posted in a thread last week that I would be looking for certain statistical production. This game was anamoly. You won't win many games in the NFL without scoring in the red zone after so many shots.[/quote]My point in posting the stats was that the offensive playcalling couldn't have been such shit that we had 5 long drives (4 13 plays or more). We certainly need to fix the RZ production, but IMO it's something that's can be fixed. We just need to see if Zorn is capable of fixing it.

There were also a couple articles out there about JZ being willing to let JC sink-or-swim by opening up and not being afraid to take chances. I think he has to at this point. We need to find out if JZ's O can really be successful and if JC deserves to be re-signed, win or lose.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;592053]I get the feeling Snyder knew this was going to happen. Snyder wanted a Cowher or Billick but those guys weren't biting so he got Zorn to be his sacrificial lamb so to speak until the big boys were ready to coach again.[/quote]

I keep hearing this crazy argument. It makes no sense.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=wilsowilso;592065]I keep hearing this crazy argument. It makes no sense.[/quote]

Yeah I agree.

It's another wacky conspiracy theory some fans seem to buy into.

It's crap.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Alright I just watched ZOrn's press conference and it's a good evaluation. He knows that we have a major problem in the red zone. As long as they really focus on it and know it's a joke right now I hope we can turn it around.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;592054]People keep saying Thomas dropped that one in the endzone but I thought the defender broke it up? Maybe not I haven't seen it again just asking.[/quote]It was thrown low into him between defenders and went off his hands. It's a TD catch you'd expect an NFL receiver to make, though, it was by no means a particularly catchable ball. More of a third-choice desperation read on third down.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

I was calling our offensive plays in the red zone, and I can predict them, then I know the 11 players, and Spagn can predict them as well.

Stretch
stretch
PA

PA
Stretch
stretch
stretch

Jesus.. The stretch doesn't' work with a backup gaurd, and 10 Defensive players in the box!!!!!! WAKE UP

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Zorn's red zone playcalling is awful, as others have suggested. However, I'm not sure a change of the head coach is all of that helpful in terms of continuity. Not many teams who change head coaches mid-year end up in the playoffs.

So either:
1) Zorn needs to do some real soul searching about his play calling, or
2) play calling could be turned over to Sherman Smith

In another issue, someone needs to tell Santana Moss that the season began last week. He still hasn't really shown up for work yet.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

If Zorn gets Ws, no matter how ugly, he's the coach.

However, I do think he might be asked to consider giving up palycalling duties. Has Stump Mitchell ever called games? I don't think Buges is the right call there.

And I agree that we didn't look bad between the 20s, but if we continue to struggle like this... oy.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

I really like zorn, i want him to succeed, but i truly have to believe if danny smith has to tell him when to call a time out, and channeling gibbs 2.0 on predictability..he probably need to shake it up and do some soul searching.
Campbell played well.
Good to see kelly being a factor also.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=Lotus;592116]Zorn's red zone playcalling is awful, as others have suggested. However, I'm not sure a change of the head coach is all of that helpful in terms of continuity. Not many teams who change head coaches mid-year end up in the playoffs.

So either:
1) Zorn needs to do some real soul searching about his play calling, or
2) play calling could be turned over to Sherman Smith

[B]In another issue, someone needs to tell Santana Moss that the season began last week. He still hasn't really shown up for work yet.[/B][/quote]

I said that earlier in the thread and nobody said anything about it. Moss might as well be the invisible man out on the field.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Jim Zorn definitely didn't call a good game down in the red zone. It's so stupid that the takes the game out of JC's hands in the red zone. Halfback pass on 3rd down, from the 7? Probably the worst call I've ever seen.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;592105]It was thrown low into him between defenders and went off his hands. It's a TD catch you'd expect an NFL receiver to make, though, it was by no means a particularly catchable ball. More of a third-choice desperation read on third down.[/quote]

Yeah tough play, not the type I can place a lot of blame on DT, the ball came in pretty hot too

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

what is really positive with zorn? what has he done since being here? the defense has carried us ever since he has been here, and before as well. we arent scoring any more points than we did before, honestly the only reason id even think about keeping him here would be so that campbell wouldnt have to learn a new offense.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

yeah..i agree! Poor jc.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Last year we struggled mightily from the 50 to the 20. It seems like that is better this year. Lets hope that we don't take a year to fix the red zone issue.

Sellers has gotta be in Zorn's doghouse, 2 times he has gone to him in the redzone, 2 times he dropped it. He is better than that, and Sellers knows it.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

The thing that baffles me about play calling is that it seems like coaches (possibly out of arrogance?) Dont adapt their playcalling to suit their players, they pursue plays that they "hope" develop into keys to some preset system they have envisioned in their head.
You have a great wide receiver in santana who drew single coverage throughout the day.
Three tall receivers who rarely see a fade.
A ball hawk in hall, and a monster rusher in orakpo.
i just dont get it, and it baffles me...

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

I've seen Zorn call excellent ball games before, and well, these last two games have been among his 3 or 4 worst called games as the head coach of the Redskins.

The clock management (which is an overrated facet of football) seems to be either a you have it or you don't kind of thing, and Zorn (plus about 20 other coaches) just doesn't have that ability.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=GTripp0012;592141]I've seen Zorn call excellent ball games before, and well, these last two games have been among his 3 or 4 worst called games as the head coach of the Redskins.

The clock management (which is an overrated facet of football) seems to be either a you have it or you don't kind of thing, and Zorn (plus about 20 other coaches) just doesn't have that ability.[/quote]

Really? Two games? My memory is failing me. Can you tell me which two games those were?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=12thMan;592142]Really? Two games? My memory is failing me. Can you tell me which two games those were?[/quote]The four game stretch from Week two to Week five of last year was well called. The Seattle game last year was well called as well.

But, none of that explains why he's so clueless at this point.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Another thing...

People have mentioned:

a) the REALLY dumb choice to go for the FG up 2 with 2 minutes left

b) the dumb choice to NEVER even TRY Kelly or Mitchell in the endzone

c) our Special Teams coach having to YELL at him when to take a timeout (and I am not sure if he even got it afterward... man he looked lost/overwhelmed like a server at a restaurant in "the weeds")

but one thing that really blew my mind...

Rams had ZERO time outs, and on our 2nd down, we run that stretch left with Betts.. bad call... but it was a HORRIBLE call when you consider that he ran it to the SHORT SIDE of the field, giving him nowhere to run & Betts runs out stopping the friggin clock at 2:12!

We should have been running our 3rd down play with under 2:00 on the clock... if we didn't get in, the clock should have been run down to 1:15 or so for our 4th down FG to ice it... but no... :doh:

I guess it's better to be lucky than good sometimes...

oh, and someone mentioned th Pats scoring 9 today... but that was against the Jets AT the Meadowlands in a division rivalry game the Jets were PUMPED for... we were playing the 2-14 Rams at HOME after the Seahawks WHOOPED them 28-0 last week... man this team is worrying the hell out of me.

and one last thing ... I DO have to call out Campbell for the first pass of the game... should have been one play, 7 points and ALL of the momentum for the day... but no... under-thrown, crappy pass, no big play... as usual.

But sure, Campbell was good at the 5-10 yard, safe, dink-and-dunk passes that should be high percentage... Randle El saved his a** on the overthrown pass down the seam as well..

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

I didn't see any of the game today since I was traveling and have only seen some highlights but it's disappointing to see that we squeaked one out vs. the awful Rams and some of the same play calling questions remain. When SS and Matty, two of the more level headed posters when it comes to panic and change are advocating making a move, that gets my attention.

I don't think Zorn has it. I'll say it and stand behind it, he's over his head. Some people have it, some don't. I honestly believe that if Shanahan came in during the season, he'd be able to pick up where things are, put JC in the no huddle/shotgun as the base offense and we'd see a difference immediately.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[B]Come on:[/B]
Chi over Pitts
Buff trouncing TB
Cin over GB
SF Spanks Sea
etc......
We look bad in the light of teams we are likely MORE talented than?
JZ and company need to have a "Come to Jesus" meeting and get this stuff sorted out during our 5(now 4) game respite

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

very disappointing:(

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

As much as I hate to admit it, we just are not a very good football team, from top to bottom.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Maybe it's just me, but I think our secondary gets torched all year, just not happy with the coverages we play.:(

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=cc47;592186]As much as I hate to admit it, we just are not a very good football team, from top to bottom.[/quote]

You know I keep thinking about this "we're not a good football team" thing.

I don't know how people define that, but we rarely get outplayed. Most of what I've observed over the past 10 games is that we've beat ourselves or we were just not prepared.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

In the end, if we move the ball like we did today, the plays will come. I still believe it's possible. I would just like to see it on the field. I am sure the players feel the same way

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Very good point......How 12th how do you stop it?

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

It's been that way since Gibbs 2.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=Mattyk72;591936]I know Zorn is gonna catch a lot of heat this week but Moss and Sellers flat out ruined two scoring opportunities. That shouldn't be overlooked.[/quote]

Also D.Thomas dropped a TD, so add him to that bunch as well.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;592028]Before we run Zorn out of town.

- We put up 362 yards
- 7/15 46% on 3rd down.
- JC was 23 of 36 0 INTs 63.8%
- Not counting the kneel-down, we had 7 drives. 4 were 13+ play drives, 1 was 9 plays, only two 3 & outs

I know we're playing the Rams, but Spags is a D guy and it's not outside the realm of possibility that his D will be getting better week-to-week.

Also, these are not Zorn's fault:
- JC two bad throws on deep balls that would've likely been TDs (Kelly & Thomas)
- Moss fumble inside 10 yd line
- Sellers dropped TD

I remember the Gibbs' 80s well. I remember Mark Moseley being the MVP and a few 15-14 & 12-10 wins in those days. Let's take the W and hope Zorn looks at film and improves the RZ offense over the next couple of weeks.[/quote]

That all sounds great....but you add it up and it only equals 9 points. Something is wrong with this equation IMO. And we have as much talent as pretty much anyone, we just need to learn how to make it work.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=12thMan;592191]You know I keep thinking about this "we're not a good football team" thing.

I don't know how people define that, but we rarely get outplayed. Most of what I've observed over the past 10 games is that we've beat ourselves or we were just not prepared.[/quote]We played on the road last week and had zero procedure penalities on offense. This week, we had at least two or three. So there's no theoretical reason that the team should be more antsy against the Rams than the Giants, so that leads me to think that Thomas' injury might have had some degree of a ripple effect on the offensive line.

If it's not just executing, but thinking and then trying to execute, that's when you get procedure penalties. Not home vs. road.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

I used to think that we were as talented as anyone, I am not thinking that anymore. Especially at WR.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Our skill positions are not as talented as the upper tier of the NFL.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

You win some, you lose some...I'm seeing some of these other teams losing after looking very good last week. I guess a W is a W...as much as you want 40 pts. right now we're better than any 0-2 teams.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

There are two major issues to consider:
We primarily rush to the left side of the line. Our right side can't run block. we can't have a one dimensional running game and be successful.

It's seems that Zorn does not trust Campbell in the redzone or with deep passes, or maybe the protection...

BTW,I will be the one to say it, I don't think JC had a solid game(Not bad either...). He's basicly become Mark Brunell. Atleast Brunell could hit a deep ball every now and then.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

It's a funny game...

If JC throws a good ball to Kelly 1st play, Sellers catches his friggin TD pass, D Thomas catches his, we all feel 10000% different right now.

with that said... the stretch play w/ 2:12 on clock out of bounds = terrible... going for it on the 2 with a 2 point lead = terrible, needing the special teams coach to yell at your head coach to wait to call a timeout = terrible...

So yes, Zorn = terrible OVERALL today (and does truly seem over his head as HC)... but one throw & 2 catches makes for us all not needing Prilosec this afternoon

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

Let's at least give Zorn props for making the correct go-for-it call twice in the 4th quarter.

A stretch play when you need a half-yard? Probably not what I would have done, but it's the Skins comfort zone play. I think a QB sneak accomplishes the goal just fine, but it's possible that Zorn really wanted to get in the end zone there, even though the game situation says get a first down and kneel on the ball.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;592220]It's a funny game...

If JC throws a good ball to Kelly 1st play, Sellers catches his friggin TD pass, D Thomas catches his, we all feel 10000% different right now.

[/quote]

You are spot on.
Unfortunately it seems like we never make those plays and I don't think it's a coincidence.

Re: Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Rams)
 

[quote=12thMan;592191]You know I keep thinking about this "we're not a good football team" thing.

I don't know how people define that, but we rarely get outplayed. Most of what I've observed over the past 10 games is that we've beat ourselves or we were just not prepared.[/quote]
I think I concur. I think we have FAR better talent than our play indicates. While we have definate weak spots, there are FAR less talented teams playing FAR better ball. The guys and staff are going to have to make it.......gel!
We'll see against the Mighty Lions?