There's nothing wrong with criticizing the team, the players or the coaches.

I think what people have a problem with is the ridiculous overreactions, calling for half the team to be cut/benched, saying the system is flawed, not giving this time to work, etc.

Reasonable criticism is fine and that's what we're here for, to talk about the Skins through good and bad. But after every loss hearing people saying so and so needs to be cut just gets really aggravating.

I don't expect things to be turned around in an instance, but I just try to say what I feel the problems in, and I think Brunell should be benched, personally.

That is where I stand too.

I want Portis, Coles and all the others out there starting...just not Brunell. I know Gibbs will turn this around, I'm just frustrated that we keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

I don't want anyone benched becasue our best players are on the field but Portis sucks right now and I can say that and still love the Redskins...

Hail to the Redskins!

[QUOTE=Daseal]
Portis has been a fumble machine (in my opinion, partially due to playcalling), Coles has been fairly unreliable, a total opposite of last year, Gardner has been himself - highlighted in the Giants game. Brunell and Ramsey have combined for a dud of a QB combo, though I'd like to see Ramsey get some snaps with the first unit and a chance to play. [/QUOTE]

How has the play calling been behind the reason Portis has fumbled the ball? They have run up the middle but that does not mean you lose the ball. In fact 2 of his fumbles have been runs on the outside. 1 in the Giants game (2nd one) and the Cleveland game was off to the right side.

I'll take Coles as my number 1 reciever anyday. Brunnel a Dud? Please explain this one. You saw Ramsey get some snaps with the 1st team against the Giants, you also saw 3 interceptions and poor ones at that.

The backups are always the most popular players on the team, until they play that is.

[b]Daseal,are you sure you ai'nt a cowboys fan in drag?i have never known a skins fan to rag on the skins as bad as you have the year and a half i have been posting here.i know they have'nt done much,can't you find anything good at all?i know you miss your boy spurrier,i'm telling you he's the pretender and gibbs is the contender.gibbs will right this ship,be patient.[/b]

"Why can't you all find the good in this situation?"
-General George Custer rallying his troops


I still don't understand how someone is less of a Redskins fan if they dare speak out against how the 'Skins are doing something. I hope anyone who thinks it is wrong to speak out against the status quo is voting for Bush, lest your vote indicate your un-American attitude.

There was plenty of reason to feel good about the game against the Cowboys, even if it was a loss. I don't think I complained about much following our loss to Dallas. But when we lose to the BROWNS, I'm going to gripe.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I hope anyone who thinks it is wrong to speak out against the status quo is voting for Bush, lest your vote indicate your un-American attitude.

There was plenty of reason to feel good about the game against the Cowboys, even if it was a loss. I don't think I complained about much following our loss to Dallas. But when we lose to the BROWNS, I'm going to gripe.[/QUOTE]

here here to everything above. but mostly the BROWNS maaaaan.

You said yourself I ragged the skins just as bad now as I did when Spurrier was at the helm. I look for what can be changed in a situation, and there's a lot to do in that respect. I'm by no means a Cowboys fan and cheer till the last second ticks off the clock for the Redskins. Just because I see and state obvious problems that need to be addressed that means I'm no longer a Redskin fan? It's that type of attitude that keeps us under .500. I demand perfection, and I expect it soon. Does that mean I'm leaving if it doesn't happen? Certainly not.

We're making STUPID mistakes. The exact same STUPID mistakes everyone assured me would be instantaniously fixed come the return of Jesus himself. They have a long way to go, but it's certainly doable with the massive amount of talent that has accumulated in Washington.

I think my man Daesal has been catching way too much flak on this thread.

yeah... right now the redskin O is bad, and saying so doesn't make you evil or malicious, just honest...

[QUOTE=RamseyfanI still don't understand how someone is less of a Redskins fan if they dare speak out against how the 'Skins are doing something. I hope anyone who thinks it is wrong to speak out against the status quo is voting for Bush, lest your vote indicate your un-American attitude.

There was plenty of reason to feel good about the game against the Cowboys, even if it was a loss. I don't think I complained about much following our loss to Dallas. But when we lose to the BROWNS, I'm going to gripe.[/QUOTE]

Ramseyfan, that is about as large a distortion as you could have possibly made. No one said you could not criticize the Redskins. No one said you could not say you thought Brunell should be benched. I have said the same thing about a couple other players. Go back and read the subject and first post of this thread again and see if you can realize what it is about. I was responding to off-the-chart comments like:

- Redskins are not going to win another game this year.
- Gibbs is worse that Spurrier
- Gibbs needs to go
- Drop Brunell, Coles and Portis (ALL IN ONE STATEMENT!!!)

I was trying to curtail the stupidity, and put a positive and hopeful light on things.

As far as my harshness in the response to you, you can blame it on your MORONIC, putrid political statement in the middle of my thread. Take your sorry political comments to a board where they belong. I came here to discuss Redskins, not politics. And certainly not to be called "unAmerican" if I decide to vote a certain way. That attitude disgusted me - and would any good American.

break it up fellas

Daseal - You say you see things that could be changed. Well, that is what the biggest problem has been with this team....too much change and little to no consistency. Sometimes it just takes hard work and patience, and I believe that's where they are right now. What are they gonna bench Portis? Coles? I don't think so. I can see the point in suggesting putting Ramsey in, but Gibbs has clearly stated that Brunell is his guy. He hasn't played great, but certainly hasn't played bad enough to warrant being benched. It is a more a matter of the entire offense getting in sync, not just one or two players. We just need to let Gibbs and his staff do their jobs and try to be patient.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]break it up fellas[/QUOTE]

?????? There should have been an admonition after the "unAmerican" comment, NOT after my response, which was completely appropriate after that was allowed to go unchecked. You are acting like the NFL ref that throws a flag on a guy for shoving - after the guy he shoved stuck a finger in his eye.

My response was directed to all parties involved here, Hogskin, sorry that it appears to be just at you.

No need to get all fired up at each other guys. We're all in the same boat, we're all frustrated but taking it out on each other isn't going to accomplish anything.

We've all got opinions, let's try to respect that. Think twice before posting, if it's a post that would tick you off if the shoe was on the other foot, it's a good idea to think twice before hitting that submit button.

There's nothing wrong with a heated debate as long as everyone stays on topic.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]As far as my harshness in the response to you, you can blame it on your MORONIC, putrid political statement in the middle of my thread. Take your sorry political comments to a board where they belong. I came here to discuss Redskins, not politics. And certainly not to be called "unAmerican" if I decide to vote a certain way. That attitude disgusted me - and would any good American.[/QUOTE]

I never intended to say that anyone voting for Kerry or anyone other than Bush is un-American. That was the entire purpose of my post. I was being sarcastic.

I was saying that people who criticize Bush are no less American than I am less of a Redskins fan for criticizing Brunell (which had been implied). [B]I apologize[/B] if any else took it seriously; I would never say someone is un-American for voting one way, rather than another.

When a thread says something like "Patience....Try being A Fan," I feel completely entitled to feel attacked as being un-fanlike for being impatient and calling for a few changes. I wanted to keep the dialogue going and openly discuss different points of view.

If anyone thinks I was ever rude to someone else, please let me know because I have vigorously tried to avoid that.

Below are some comments that made me personally feel attacked.
Either I'm dumb, don't understand football, am not a Redskins fan, love the Cowboys, or just suck for criticizing the Skins and the decision to start Brunell.


You need to be SUPPORTIVE!!!! I sure don't see much of that around here. I see a LOT of FAIR-WEATHER fans that don't understand the game.

Here's a little history lesson for you guys that are having a hissy-fit.

Emotions tend to get the better of some people after a loss- after consecutive losses, some become really irrational.

are you sure you ai'nt a cowboys fan in drag?i have never known a skins fan to rag on the skins as bad as you have the year and a half i have been posting here

I was trying to curtail the stupidity, and put a positive and hopeful light on things.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Below are some comments that made me personally feel attacked.
Either I'm dumb, don't understand football, am not a Redskins fan, love the Cowboys, or just suck for criticizing the Skins and the decision to start Brunell.


You need to be SUPPORTIVE!!!! I sure don't see much of that around here. I see a LOT of FAIR-WEATHER fans that don't understand the game.

Here's a little history lesson for you guys that are having a hissy-fit.

Emotions tend to get the better of some people after a loss- after consecutive losses, some become really irrational.

are you sure you ai'nt a cowboys fan in drag?i have never known a skins fan to rag on the skins as bad as you have the year and a half i have been posting here

I was trying to curtail the stupidity, and put a positive and hopeful light on things.[/QUOTE]

Ramseyfan, most (not all) of those quotes were from me. NONE were directed at you. Why in the world did you take them personally?? They were clearly directed at the hysterical fringe that was calling for Gibbs' ouster, etc (I won't go through the list again - I already did it). There was absolutely nothing directed at you, and absolutely no personal "attack" in this thread until the "unamerican" post. That has no place here.

Just a suggestion. Try not to imagine everything is directed at YOU. Clearly, none were until your posts on here, and CERTAINLY none because you wanted to bench Brunell. Hell, I answered THAT one right after you posted it, and you went on with your persecuted posts as though nothing had been said.

Please don't make any more harsh personal attacks as you did in that post, and I won't respond to you the way I did.

It's amazing how much positive feedback I got from those same statements you quoted, and many of the positive posters also, like you and me, have advocated benching one player or another. Somehow, THEY did not feel personally attacked. This thread was intended to be a generate a positive, hopeful outlook, and you managed to turn it around.

As per the other trhead I was posting on about Coach Smith. Wouldn't be easier just to flip the bird and move on. Seems to be more effective and we can go on talking about what improvements the skins need to make. So for all of us that are tired of the BS

F Off!!! :tongue

Ramseyfan: My quote you mentioned
"Emotions tend to get the better of some people after a loss- after consecutive losses, some become really irrational. "

wasn't intended at any one in particular... I should have expoused further what I meant by what i said... it's okay to criticize something you follow and love. the context of my quote was directed towards statements that reflect haste- such as "bench portis/coles" or "gibbs should go back to nascar" or "we suck". the only reason i spoke of irrational statements was because I just remember during the spurrier era after consecutive losses, names were being tossed around- sometimes towards fellow warpathers.

I should have clarified what I meant by irrational- in no way does it mean critical statements supported/backed up/followed by logic. What I have a problem with is words vented out of frustration and emotion.

Apologies to you if my post offended you or any other person on this list... it's the last thing I would want to do. We're all in the same boat, and I think everyone here is on edge b/c we're tired of losing. Which basically means we're all as hardcore as you can get when it comes to being Redskin fans. I haven't met most of you guys in person, but being here for a while now I've gained a sense of pride and community (very rare within the online environment).

Ok, Ok, enough sensitivity already... let's wax some Raven ass Sunday night!

itvnetop, good post. As far as the other classless one, I guess all we are supposed to do is ignore it...

Iventop, thanks for your post clairfying your previous post. It wasn't so much any single post that got me (and a few others) on the defensive. I think it was just the whole "atmosphere" following the loss to the Browns. Another contributory factor was that electronic messages sometimes do not properly convey one's genuine attitude; so a post can often be taken in the wrong manner.

I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone in my posts and for the second time, I do sincerely apologize if I did - believe me that it was in error.

Hogskin, I'm not quite sure what to say. I don't harbor any ill will towards you and I didn't mean to indicate that I do in any of my posts. My recent posts in this thread have been intended to "clear the air" and try to smooth things over. I tried to show where I was coming from - hence my apology and disclaimer that I was not trying to attack anyone, just explain things. I'm not quite sure why you're fired up at me....maybe its an "electronic misunderstanding?"

Fair enough, Ramseyfan. You made an excellent point about electronic messages. As far as the heated exchange, I guess you just hit a nerve for me on that one issue. It's all in the past as far as I am concerned. I don't ever hold grudges.

OH!!! I just realized you may think my last post was directed at you. It was not - it was for the "finger" I received.

One last general comment, and I'll stop there. It seems very difficult to be allowed to just have a positive or hopeful thread here. Matty tried it with his thread - and even asked the negative posters to not post in that thread. They took it over. I tried a thread giving a message of hopefullness, and after several very positive responses, folks decided to tear it down.

There are so many negative threads here, it's a shame we are not able to have one positive one.

Thanks Hogskin, I think we cleared things up a bit.

I'm not fair weather, that's for sure!
 

After 38 years of watching the Redskins, I qualify as an all weather fan!

I said 8-8 at the beginning of the year because I know it takes time to adopt to a new system, no matter if it is HOF Coach Gibbs in charge! I figured he was 8-8 in his first year, first time, and would be again! I'm not disapointed! We are getting yards, we have a mediocre O, we have a great D, and a mediocre ST. It takes time!