Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;510063]Well it does seem as though Zorn was like well we're gonna lose this game so lets not injury him any further.[/quote]

And it wasn't like CP was burning it up out there. Plus, Ladell was good on the pass--some of our only offense, really. CP needs to calm the **** down.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

This is the worst side of CP IMO (i think most of us on the board see it about the same). That said, I don't find any of this troublesome. Zorn, from everything i've seen and heard from him, doesn't take or give anything on a personal level. I guess he may be showing one side in public and another in the locker room and one-on-one, but I more or less doubt it. And because Zorn doesn't take this shit personal than CP will come out looking the fool as he should. The test then really comes back on Portis: is there too much ego to get beyond his own guffaws, in which case he starts looking to go somewhere else? Or does he take a step back? Really hard to say.

As to the laying of blame on offensive production I hope Campbell isn't pointing fingers and isolating himself in the locker room (and I really doubt it anyway). Zorn is right about the shoddy execution. Sure he can't satisfy the fans and just say "The line sucks donkey balls and by the way our receivers drop a lot of passes and run in circles part of the time." No, Zorn has to leave it general w/ comments about production. He's right. If we executed well we'd be moving the ball and scoring. [B]This group on offense has absolutely no right to whine about scheme. For years it has executed poorly for long stretches and on big games, regardless of coach and scheme.[/B] Again, I think Zorn has what it takes to rise above the BS, not sure if he has what it takes to lead. It's a very fine line IMO between tough love - calling the guys out on execution - and becoming a bad guy. As the zen master says... we'll see.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

I understand how portis feels, bottom line, zorn is not taking enough responsibility for the offensive woes. I mean come on Gibb's offensive scheme seemed to get everybody involved. Look at Mike Sellers stats from last year and compare them to this year. Why does Cooley only have 1 td. This is the same o line from last year; why are we giving up so many sacks compare to last season. ZORN NEED'S TO MAN UP!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

This doesn’t look good either for the rest of the season or for Zorn. I think what CP did is totally wrong but I think that by calling players out all season Zorn has made this much more likely to happen. I think players must feel it’s a two way street and feel it’s ok to criticize the Coach if he publicly puts the blame on them after games for losses.

I think CP should suck it up and keep his comments private but I also think Zorn should grow a pair and at least in public back his players and take on some responsibility when our/his Offence completely fails to perform.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

We do have a "body of evidence" to look at here - - and some of the data is conflicting:

1. Portis called out his O-Line early this year as not being all that good. He said that he would like to see what numbers he could put up if he played behind a top level O-Line. OK, he's basically right; this O-Line is mediocre. But is that what one would want to hear from a "teammate" if one were one of the O-Linemen? :spank:


2. Later, B-Mitch called out Portis for his improper comments and Portis lashed back. OK, he doesn't like to be called out by someone who many think should be a HoF player - - not an unnatural position. But getting into a pissing match with a guy who sits behind a radio microphone 5 days a week is STUPID to the max. Back in the 1920s someone once observed that you shoud never pick a fight with anyone who buys paper by the freight carload and ink by the barrel; in 2008, you don't pick fights with sports radio hosts. :nono:


3. Now, Portis is pissed because he didn't get to play on Sunday night. Gee, why didn't he threaten to hold his breath until he turned blue on the sidelines unless he got back in the game? Zorn says he missed some assignments; we DO know that he fumbled and that his fumble resulted in a TD. :confused:


Matty: Good thing for Portis that the Skins no longer have Sultan Mugillicuddy on the practice squad or you would have 17 threads by now saying how Portis needs to be cut so that the brilliance and Pro Bowl talent of Sultan can be showcased and revealed to NFL fans worldwide... :)

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Bad QB play,awful OL play,WRs cant catch a cold, RB cant hold on to the ball,awful play calling at times,etc.etc..You name it the Redskins have alot of problems.But for Portis to run his mouth about his coach is not the way to vent his frustration.What if the Redskins were 13-0 right now,and Zorn benched him,would he run his gums then.I like Portis dont get me wrong,but im tired of the finger pointing.The defense is trying to keep all of this together does anyone care about them working there asses off.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=SmootSmack;509970]Just people I've talked to have said that Zorn is treating veterans and rookies equally and that just doesn't work in the NFL. Veterans expect a different level of respect. Further, almost all the players don't like that he's been calling out the players on execution and seemingly taking no blame for the schemes. Additionally, some players say that Campbell has been blaming others in the locker room for his struggles. It's a bit of a mess right now mainly stemming from losing and the frustrations that go along with that.

Having a tight, cohesive locker room is one of (some would say the only one) Gibbs' traits that is sorely missed right now. But I think it's a passing thing that will improve.[/quote]

Been saying this for months...
[I][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/25030-dont-you-think-we-overreacting-just-post473338.html#post473338"]Re: Don't you think we are overreacting just a bit??[/URL]

Back then people thought I was nuts.
[/I]

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;510057]So was Zorn a douche in every game that we lost? Because he has taken it upon himself to blast players for week now.[/quote]


I have listened to every post game presser from JZ... he has never blasted players. Please give me an example.... I must have missed something.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Just listened to the whole CP interview. Definitely sounds like JZ is losing the locker room. Definitely needs to be addressed.

The fact that CP mocked JZ as a "genius" tells me he has zero respect for the guy.

Also, in the interview CP said that JC is basically given a formation and then he has to call the play from there... if thats true I think JC deserves a lot less critisism than he is getting. He is actually doind a decent job in first year in the WCO.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;510093]I have listened to every post game presser from JZ... he has never blasted players. Please give me an example.... I must have missed something.[/quote]

How many times have you heard him say "we just failed to execute"....

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Well we better beat Cincy next week and end up going at least 2-1 the rest of the way. To be honest Zorn better get the job done ASAP meaning '09 or I can see Portis wanting out bad. Barry Sanders gave up the assured rushing title because he was totally fed up with Detroit. IF Clinton deems this squad as a bunch of quitters and lame ass tricks, he might opt for a trade after '09. The guy can't be the only one giving it his all all the time. JC needs to step it up and show some leadership if he wants to be the fracnhise QB. Even Matt Ryan is stepping it up in that regard(being a leader) and he is a rookie.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

This would have never happened if Coach Joe was there!

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;510098]Just listened to the whole CP interview. Definitely sounds like JZ is losing the locker room. Definitely needs to be addressed.

The fact that CP mocked JZ as a "genius" tells me he has zero respect for the guy.

Also, in the interview CP said that JC is basically given a formation and then he has to call the play from there... if thats true I think JC deserves a lot less critisism than he is getting. He is actually doind a decent job in first year in the WCO.[/quote]


I think you just contradicted your own argument in a way. If JC is calling the plays, then Zorn isn't the one responsible for the lousy play calling. But then again, it should be Zorn or the OC calling the plays. Either way it doesn't look good for us. One hand we, have a QB that can't call decent plays and on the other, we have a delinquent coach not really doing his job.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Portis kept his mouth shut when Gibbs was here. (For the most part). Gibbs commanded respect and in turn, respected his players.

Zorn.. Something is off with him. If he's treating vets and rookies all the same, I think I'd feel a little disrespected too. It's almost like giving a promotion to the entry level Joe, that's been working at your job for a few months, while you've been busting your ass for years.

Maybe Zorn will be able to adjust in the last following weeks, but you definitely don't wanna end the year on bad terms with your players. As for Portis, I have no problem with him airing dirty laundry, so long as it doesn't stick a knife in the team morale.

You'd think T.O was playing for the Skins judging from some people's opinions here..

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

You have a problem with someone, be a man and talk to them in private. Try to resolve it. This show very little class and respect on the part of Portis. Very disappointing.
What is wrong with people now a days? Showing him up on TV is incredibly stupid and chicken shit.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Defensewins;510113]You have a problem with someone, be a man and talk to them in private. Try to resolve it. This show very little class and respect on the part of Portis. Very disappointing.
What is wrong with people now a days? Showing him up on [B]TV[/B] is incredibly stupid and chicken shit.[/quote]

Radio.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Portis is right on almost all accounts. But he needs to not air it out in the media, because that only makes matters worse. Instead of having a fractured locker room, now they have a fractured locker room visible to the public and the media.

Nevertheless, he makes numerous points all of which make me long for the steady leadership of Joe Gibbs.

- Never criticize your players in the papers, on TV, or on the radio. Don't say things like "we didn't execute." If you have a problem with a player, take it up with him in the locker room. Treat it like family. If you're going to criticize guys outside of the family, don't be shocked if they do the same to you.

- There's a reason you always heard Gibbs say "they fought their guts out." He wasn't going to admonish anyone in the press, he'd do it behind closed doors. Players respected him because he showed them that level of respect. You don't "command" respect, you earn it.

- Don't treat all players the same. There's a subtle caste system and seniority system in every workplace. Guys who bust their ass and prove they can perform at a high level deserve more leeway.

- If the head coach and team leader is going to personally tutor the QB, he needs to pay special attention to how the rest of the team views this. Campbell must be made to feel like one of the guys. As the QB he's the leader of the players, yes, but he's still a player. He cannot be above reproach, Zorn cannot continually defend him in the media while calling out other players.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Good read by Boswell here, I tend to agree with him.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/09/AR2008120903010.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Schneed10;510122]Portis is right on almost all accounts. But he needs to not air it out in the media, because that only makes matters worse. Instead of having a fractured locker room, now they have a fractured locker room visible to the public and the media.

Nevertheless, he makes numerous points all of which make me long for the steady leadership of Joe Gibbs.

- Never criticize your players in the papers, on TV, or on the radio. Don't say things like "we didn't execute." If you have a problem with a player, take it up with him in the locker room. Treat it like family. If you're going to criticize guys outside of the family, don't be shocked if they do the same to you.

- [B]There's a reason you always heard Gibbs say "they fought their guts out." He wasn't going to admonish anyone in the press, he'd do it behind closed doors. Players respected him because he showed them that level of respect. You don't "command" respect, you earn it.[/B]

- Don't treat all players the same. There's a subtle caste system and seniority system in every workplace. Guys who bust their ass and prove they can perform at a high level deserve more leeway.

- If the head coach and team leader is going to personally tutor the QB, he needs to pay special attention to how the rest of the team views this. Campbell must be made to feel like one of the guys. As the QB he's the leader of the players, yes, but he's still a player. He cannot be above reproach, Zorn cannot continually defend him in the media while calling out other players.[/quote]

Isn't it funny how fans grew to hate that? Now Zorn is on the hot seat for doing the very thing that people wanted Gibbs to do. Hilarious.

Joe did it the right way, maybe he took it to an extreme but still, it was something the players definitely respected. They knew he had their back, and as a result there was a high level of trust there.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Defensewins;510113]You have a problem with someone, be a man and talk to them in private. Try to resolve it. This show very little class and respect on the part of Portis. Very disappointing.
What is wrong with people now a days? Showing him up on TV is incredibly stupid and chicken shit.[/quote]

The same should go for Zorn.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=GoSkins!;510090]Been saying this for months...
[I][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/25030-dont-you-think-we-overreacting-just-post473338.html#post473338"]Re: Don't you think we are overreacting just a bit??[/URL]

Back then people thought I was nuts.
[/I][/quote]

Congrats to you sir, you picked up on something I didn't.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;509985]Did you watch the Zorn presser? He wasn't ripping Portis. He didn't say he was benched because he didn't practice. He said Betts was doing better in the passing game (basically), that they were behind and had to pass, that they were trying to get Portis healthy, etc. I know what Portis is referring to, the part where Zorn said that Portis was helping too much in pass pro and not getting into routes, but it takes a pretty thin skin to take that to the level that Portis did. He is a great player, but super high maintanence as well. Gibbs understood that (or accomodated that) and coddled Portis. Zorn is not. Now Portis is pouting. But it's BS. Zorn might be well advised to follow a more Gibbsian model in his pressers (the reporters hated it, but being tight lipped helps hold a locker room together) but that is not his style and I doubt he will pull back. But go watch the presser and see if you think Zorn's comments warranted a very Owens-like outburst by Clinton Portis.

Having said all that, much of the offensive struggles have to fall to Zorn. If your offense, that you implemented and call plays in, has scored fewer points than Detroit then execution is probably not the only problem. But Portis' comments are still way out of line.[/quote]

:goodjob:

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Clinton shouldn't have aired this out in the media, but he has every right to be upset. Zorn's decision making lately has been absolutely terrible.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Mattyk72;510169]The same should go for Zorn.[/quote]

Absolutely. But it starts at the top. Have we ever heard Snyder or Cerratto take any blame for the countless past mistakes/growing pains made by the FO? I have never heard it.
A team is a reflection of its owner, GM and coach.
Norv Turner, Terry Robiskie, Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier, Joe Gibbs and now Jim Zorn. Six Coaches in eight years....and now the rumors from the FO. Nice.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Defensewins;510190]Absolutely. But it starts at the top. Have we ever heard Snyder or Cerratto take any blame for the countless past mistakes/growing pains made by the FO? I have never heard it.
A team is a reflection of its owner, GM and coach.
Norv Turner, Terry Robiskie, Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier, Joe Gibbs and now Jim Zorn. Six Coaches in eight years....and now the rumors from the FO. Nice.[/quote]

You make it sound like our front office is hanging Zorn out to dry on purpose? But I think it has less to do with the front office and more with the players. They have to work with Zorn on a day-to-day basis. I think the front office would support him, more or less.. At least in front of the cameras.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

man, just sitting back and observing this i have a few feelings

1) zorn may know what's up with a player's condition
2) if your lead player wants to play, let him
3) do we let the star player who usually shuts his damn mouth, but could become much more electric vocally talk... or should we have him retain his gibbs'esqueness?

i think that it's a good thing for portis to speak out

we have the one damn star of this team and of course he has frustrations...

i'm not nearly about to give up on zorn, but he probably has just as much clue as portis as to how to run this thing as of now

can't even imagine what it brings next season

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

will read through the rest later but there are a few people on our team that deserve a championship atmosphere.. hopefully we can provide that

I don't think that zorn's career as an HC is over.. I'm just not sure he was ready for the multitude of choices and opportunities that may have surrounded him.. I'm not even ready to give up on him myself.. I just think that he needs to find his way..

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;509986]This would've never happened if Gibbs was still around. Boy, I start missing Gibbs v.2.0 more and more every Sunday.[/quote]
whatever man

no matter how good of a coach, you may see it int he media as being lovey dovey

but there WILL BE malcontent

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Defensewins;510190]Absolutely. But it starts at the top. Have we ever heard Snyder or Cerratto take any blame for the countless past mistakes/growing pains made by the FO? I have never heard it.
A team is a reflection of its owner, GM and coach.
Norv Turner, Terry Robiskie, Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier, Joe Gibbs and now Jim Zorn. Six Coaches in eight years....and now the rumors from the FO. Nice.[/quote]

You need to read more articles. I've read it plenty from both, especially Snyder.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

take a top tier back and put him in our offense

wonder there hasn't been people murdered

all i gotta say

someone wanna explain why CP was out when there was no injury report? get back to me

not saying he would've saved the game, just wondering

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=SmootSmack;510198]You need to read more articles. I've read it plenty from both, especially Snyder.[/quote]
I guess not enough press is generated from such

You'd think it'd be something huge to harp on, like the minor shit we bs on daily

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Defensewins;510190]Absolutely. But it starts at the top. Have we ever heard Snyder or Cerratto take any blame for the countless past mistakes/growing pains made by the FO? I have never heard it.
A team is a reflection of its owner, GM and coach.
Norv Turner, Terry Robiskie, Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier, Joe Gibbs and now Jim Zorn. Six Coaches in eight years....[B]and now the rumors from the FO[/B]. Nice.[/quote]

Do you really think the rumors are coming from the FO? I doubt it.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Defensewins;510190]Absolutely. But it starts at the top. Have we ever heard Snyder or Cerratto take any blame for the countless past mistakes/growing pains made by the FO? I have never heard it.
A team is a reflection of its owner, GM and coach.
Norv Turner, Terry Robiskie, Marty Schottenheimer, Steve Spurrier, Joe Gibbs and now Jim Zorn. Six Coaches in eight years....and now the rumors from the FO. Nice.[/quote]

Actually Snyder has freely admitted to some of his past mistakes.

I'm not so sure any of these rumors are coming from the top.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

I agree with Portis based on one play from the Ravens game. Let us not forget our wide receiver screen play. We ran one wide receiver screen to Santana and he almost broke it, took it 25 yards on a third and long. Now this play showed me something. We have had the answer to these exotic blitzes that overload one side of the line with a safety and linebacker this whole month. After Santana took that wide receiver screen Jason started having time and we drove on them. Seems to me Zorn is trying to make this rocket science when it isn't. I believe a few wide receiver screens will hold off that “get to Jason fast as you can blitz mentality”. Overload your safety and send him to Jason if you dare. Your safety in the backfield and Moss will be in the end zone. I think that's the solution to all this mess. What you fellas think? Joe Gibbs gave Zorn the eggs. Jimmy, just make the freaking Omelets.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;510111]Portis kept his mouth shut when Gibbs was here. (For the most part). Gibbs commanded respect and in turn, respected his players.

Zorn.. Something is off with him. If he's treating vets and rookies all the same, I think I'd feel a little disrespected too. It's almost like giving a promotion to the entry level Joe, that's been working at your job for a few months, while you've been busting your ass for years.

Maybe Zorn will be able to adjust in the last following weeks, but you definitely don't wanna end the year on bad terms with your players. As for Portis, I have no problem with him airing dirty laundry, so long as it doesn't stick a knife in the team morale.

You'd think T.O was playing for the Skins judging from some people's opinions here..[/quote]

Exactly. And we continue to compare this to what if Gibbs was here? First of all, in his last season, Gibbs wasn't even calling the plays..or was he? This isn't the end of the world. Zorn benched his best player and the guy didn't like it.

I'll bet if Zorn had benched CP but the Skins are like 9-3, Portis wouldn't give a rat's ass. It's the losing and blame shifting that has Portis ticked more than anything. I don't think he's finger pointing at all.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Every player is still embarrassed from the hip hip thing. If you did that at my job they would fire you after they beat you with a pipe. He's never gonna get it. All I'm sayin is just listen to Zorn. I can't put my finger on it but it sounds like he has no clue.

I think he's done.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;510030][URL="http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/12/09/portis-not-happy-with-zorn/"]ProFootballTalk.com - PORTIS NOT HAPPY WITH ZORN[/URL]

Here is a related article on profootballtalk.com

Portis needs to STFU. Zorn is the coach, he calls the shots. Period.

Stuff like this is why Portis rubs me the wrong way, 2nd time this year he has thrown teamates/coaches under the bus. He always gets a pass though.

Like previously said, this would never happen under Gibbs. Above all the Skins were family under Gibbs... even during the 5-11 season you got the sense that everyone was soldout for the team first concept.

Great point by a previous poster....[U][B]"Quitters and losers start blaming others when things go wrong."[/B][/U][/quote]

AMEN, and this is soooo true in many facets of life

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=Dblock804;510208]Every player is still embarrassed from the hip hip thing. If you did that at my job they would fire you after they beat you with a pipe. He's never gonna get it. All I'm sayin is just listen to Zorn. I can't put my finger on it but it sounds like he has no clue.

I think he's done.[/quote]

They weren't embarrassed when they did it. And again, all these problems/issues would be solved by winning. Everyone; Zorn,CP, Campbell, etc need to look first at themselves, and then the team.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

Lets see...the team does well we and the players are all hunky dory. The team starts its spiral down it's slippery slope and people on the message boards go nuts with let this guy go and find someone else for this position. Basically throwing people under the bus including Zorn at times. Even joking that our 3rd string QB can play every position.

Even the Coach got in the act calling players out. From Rookies to Vetrans.

Now finally a player speaks his mind as has everyon else and we should slap his hand and tsk, tsk him and say "No Portis you should not be calling people out in public."

I think we all can agree with Portis. Heck most of you said the same thing. and to be honest if the Coach is the type to call people out in public then he better have thick skin to be called out himself. Otherwise don't call people out in public. Praise them as has several coach's in the past not just Gibbs and handle them in private.

I agree with Portis. Now lets see if Zorn can make amends and right the ship before it completely sinks. These next few weeks and break into next year will tell what type of coach he really is. As for Cowher I really don't see this happening. I think he is a far better coach and definitly would take the Skins somewhere but unless Zorn has a hard on for Cowher and was simply biding his time he should have let one of the previous coach's take the helm and fail so he would look good bringing in Cowher. Now he will definitly be the laughing stock if he make another HC change. We would be right up there with the Raiders. I also don't think we could possibly bring in Cowher as HC and demote Zorn to OC. I think the ego's would be a thing to deal with and Zorn would not take the embarrassment.

Zorn better figure it out though. I'm betting he wants to impliment more offense and the players are not getting it or atleast some are not getting it. So he has to keep it simple and basic and other teams have figured it out.

Re: Clinton Portis on the JT Show
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;510206]I agree with Portis based on one play from the Ravens game. Let us not forget our wide receiver screen play. We ran one wide receiver screen to Santana and he almost broke it, took it 25 yards on a third and long. Now this play showed me something. We have had the answer to these exotic blitzes that overload one side of the line with a safety and linebacker this whole month. After Santana took that wide receiver screen Jason started having time and we drove on them. Seems to me Zorn is trying to make this rocket science when it isn't. I believe a few wide receiver screens will hold off that “get to Jason fast as you can blitz mentality”. Overload your safety and send him to Jason if you dare. Your safety in the backfield and Moss will be in the end zone. I think that's the solution to all this mess. What you fellas think? Joe Gibbs gave Zorn the eggs. Jimmy, just make the freaking Omelets.[/quote]Remember, the Redskins were third and one, got a false start, 3rd and 6, another false start, 3rd and 11, then ran a successful draw with Sellers that was called back by holding, and then ran that wide receiver screen for the first down.

I think it's very telling that Zorn had to call 4 straight plays to get the first down, and while getting the first down was getting progressively more unlikely, Zorn still managed to get it.