Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;476593]I'm glad Horton played well and he definately earned another start but a lot of you guys are way to anxious to get rid of Doughty.[/quote]

I don't want to get rid of Doughty but wouldn't mind having him rotated more with Horton. It's nice to all of a sudden having depth at a position that was considered weakness. Now let's see what Moore can do, I have a good feeling about our safeties and the best part is that they are all young!!!

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

he did make some rookie mistakes though too, especially when he blitzed one time and left the flats completely open, it probably an error on his part as Fox pointed out.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;476603]I don't want to get rid of Doughty but wouldn't mind having him rotated more with Horton. It's nice to all of a sudden having depth at a position that was considered weakness. Now let's see what Moore can do, I have a good feeling about our safeties and the best part is that they are all young!!![/quote]

What has doughty done to prove that he should start over Horton? All he does is tackles 10 yards after the line of scrimmage and blitzes which reminds me of AA. The bottom line is Doughty has had numerous oppurtunities to make plays and he HAS NOT!! HORTON STEPS IN MAKES TWO INTS, recovers a fumble and some good tackles in [B]1 GAME[/B]. Dude, Doughty had [B]4[/B] games (last year) [B]and[/B] preseason and he has done nothing, so yes I want Doughty replaced.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

he was around the play because he's the type of guy that's always going to be near the ball. you make your own luck.

and i agree that he should start the next game, and just see how it goes...

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

wait it was Dirtbag359 i was replying to not you SFREDSKIN.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

Reed Doughty = Pete Wysocki ??

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=vallin21;476622]What has doughty done to prove that he should start over Horton? All he does is tackles 10 yards after the line of scrimmage and blitzes which reminds me of AA. The bottom line is Doughty has had numerous oppurtunities to make plays and he HAS NOT!! HORTON STEPS IN MAKES TWO INTS, recovers a fumble and some good tackles in [B]1 GAME[/B]. Dude, Doughty had [B]4[/B] games (last year) [B]and[/B] preseason and he has done nothing, so yes I want Doughty replaced.[/quote]

So are you saying that Horton's going to have 30 int's by the end of the regular season? It's one game and Horton proved that he's better then a stripper. With every Doughty doubter I've debated it with the main argument seems to revolve around Doughty not having enough highlights.

The coaches have constantly gone on record as to say that Doughty rarely made mistakes and he's played more then 1 game and 4 preseason contest, unless you want to argue Doughty in Blache's scheme. The scoreboard from games where Doughty started is in part evidence of this point. His numbers, as I've said before, are also very comprable to the numbers Landry put up at the start of the year when he was playing SS.

Either way Doughty has proven himself as an NFL level starter. On the other hand Horton proved today though that we MIGHT have someone special. Therefore I give the edge to Horton.

However to say that Doughty has done nothing with the playing time he's been given is a strawman argument.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=RMSkins;476509][B]Being at the right place at the right time is what playing defense is all about Matty.[/B] Not to mention Horton actually CAUGHT the interceptions, something that we haven't been able to do a lot.[/quote]

I agree, but I just think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

If Doughty had caught the two tipped INTs for some reason I think that people would be using that more to downplay the performance, but with Horton he's being crowned a "ballhawk". I just want to see a bit more of him before I'm comfortable saying he's the better option than Doughty.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

I would say his plays weren't spectacular they had spectacular impact (Riggins quote from after the game). We'll see how he grades out but he certainly played like a demon today. He is still a rookie and probably blew some stuff we didn't know about but to have two guys be able to play the position is promising

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

Double Post

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;476689]I agree, but I just think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

If Doughty had caught the two tipped INTs for some reason I think that people would be using that more to downplay the performance, but with Horton he's being crowed a "ballhawk". I just want to see a bit more of him before I'm comfortable saying he's the better option than Doughty.[/quote]

not just the int's or the fumble recovery, but he was cutting through the line and playing run support like beast all game. I don't know if hes going to be the next brian dawkins but the kids had a great preseason and had a hell of a first game...

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

Don't crap on Doughtry so quickly. I think Horton had a heck of a game and I think he just might be a great player some day, but he's still a rookie. Not every game is going to be this glamorous. Let him get burned once and we'll be calling for his head.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=skinsguy;476724]Don't crap on Doughtry so quickly. I think Horton had a heck of a game and I think he just might be a great player some day, but he's still a rookie. Not every game is going to be this glamorous. Let him get burned once and we'll be calling for his head.[/quote]

Rookie doesn't necessarily mean bad. He still needs to start to see what he's capable of. No doubt he will eat his share of crow throughout the season but why put the guy back on the bench coming off a hot streak?

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;476686]So are you saying that Horton's going to have 30 int's by the end of the regular season? It's one game and Horton proved that he's better then a stripper. With every Doughty doubter I've debated it with the main argument seems to revolve around Doughty not having enough highlights.

The coaches have constantly gone on record as to say that Doughty rarely made mistakes and he's played more then 1 game and 4 preseason contest, unless you want to argue Doughty in Blache's scheme. The scoreboard from games where Doughty started is in part evidence of this point. His numbers, as I've said before, are also very comprable to the numbers Landry put up at the start of the year when he was playing SS.

[B] Either way Doughty has proven himself as an NFL level starter[/B]. On the other hand Horton proved today though that we MIGHT have someone special. Therefore I give the edge to Horton.

However to say that Doughty has done nothing with the playing time he's been given is a strawman argument.[/quote]

if anyone doughty's proven he's not an nfl starter. he's an nfl backup that can start if you don't have a better option.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

Yea Horton looked like he belonged out on the field. But the problem I see is with most NFL teams, they will 90% of the time always go back and give it to the vet. Doughty should be sitting on the pine for atleast another week and see how Horton does.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

I want to point out that Horton played quite a bit against the Giants. He was coming in for Doughty in passing situations. I was surprised by this, because earlier that week Blache told reporters that he did not want any rookie contributions just yet. So, I dont think that Horton will completely replace Doughty just yet, but he is well on his way.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;476727]Rookie doesn't necessarily mean bad. He still needs to start to see what he's capable of. No doubt he will eat his share of crow throughout the season but why put the guy back on the bench coming off a hot streak?[/quote]

Never said rookie = bad, but I'm not ready to bench Doughtry just yet. There should definitely be a good mix of both because Doughtry has been a pretty solid ball player for the Redskins.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

I'm feeling an official fan-crush on Horton coming on.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=skinsguy;476784]Never said rookie = bad, but I'm not ready to bench [B]Doughtry[/B] just yet. There should definitely be a good mix of both because [B]Doughtry[/B] has been a pretty solid ball player for the Redskins.[/quote]

Any relation to Chris Daughtry? ;)

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=GMScud;476810]Any relation to Chris Daughtry? ;)[/quote]

Yes, they're cousins. :silly:

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

Doughty and Horton will probably share time at safety. Horton's playing time will probably be increased after this performance, but I don't think Doughty will be completely phased out of the defense.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

So is Vinny gonna get any love from the haters for what looks to be one hell of a find?

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=djnemo65;476845]So is Vinny gonna get any love from the haters
for what looks to be one hell of a find?[/quote]

Yes.....but only this week. If we lose to the Cardinals then it's more bashing for Danny's Raquetball buddy. As for Zorn, well I think that he really got a lot more comfortable with play calling this week. Throughout the game I saw the play calling conform to JC's greatest strength. Throwing the ball downfield. Personally I can't remember the last time we had so many 20+ yard completions in the same game. It looked like JC was playing Madden...no NCAA on PS2 during that second half.

On a somewhat related note, isn't it ironic that Hasselback has struggled for the past two weeks? And don't tell me Reciever problems because that doesn't help my somewhat related note.

[yt]X8pnEo50EVw[/yt]

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=That Guy;476760]if anyone doughty's proven he's not an nfl starter. he's an nfl backup that can start if you don't have a better option.[/quote]

In this case I think we have a different definition of what a starter is. I define a starter as someone who takes care of his assignments and rarely makes mistakes, yet rarely if ever dominates. Doughty fits that mold.

To be even more specific I adhear (spelling?) to the scout.com definition of average starter, which Doughty fits perfectly, and ironically it's also his rating from scout.com

[B]69-60: Average Starter
[/B]A valuable roster player but is not dominant against the better players he faces on a week-to-week basis... Gives great effort and you are glad that he is on your team, but he may or may not go to the next level.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

I am not taking anything away from Horton's performance. He played a hell of a game, but it was only one. All of those turnovers were "look what I found" plays. He happend to be in the right place at the right time, and he did what he was supposed to do. Who is to say that Doughty would not have done the same?

I do not think that Doughty has done anything to lose his job, but right now I would not want to be the secondary coach and have to make this decision.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=jsarno;476487]Let's not go crazy, it was one game. I love the game he played, but every week is different in this league.[/quote]


well said. I hope he can continue to play at the level he played at yesterday.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;476853]Yes.....but only this week. If we lose to the Cardinals then it's more bashing for Danny's Raquetball buddy. As for Zorn, well I think that he really got a lot more comfortable with play calling this week. Throughout the game I saw the play calling conform to JC's greatest strength. Throwing the ball downfield.[B] Personally I can't remember the last time we had so many 20+ yard completions in the same game.[/B] It looked like JC was playing Madden...no NCAA on PS2 during that second half.

On a somewhat related note, isn't it ironic that Hasselback has struggled for the past two weeks? And don't tell me Reciever problems because that doesn't help my somewhat related note.

[yt]X8pnEo50EVw[/yt][/quote]

What blew my mind was when we were in Shotgun INSIDE THE 15 YARD LINE. I can't remember seeing that before on the Redskins.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Angry;476875]I am not taking anything away from Horton's performance. He played a hell of a game, but it was only one. All of those turnovers were "look what I found" plays. He happend to be in the right place at the right time, and he did what he was supposed to do. Who is to say that Doughty would not have done the same?

I do not think that Doughty has done anything to lose his job, but right now I would not want to be the secondary coach and have to make this decision.[/quote]


Here's the thing though, he WAS in the right place and he DID make the play. So often this defense gives up several TO opportunities bc they drop the ball or just cant get to a tipped ball. The fact is he did it three times in his first start, and no matter if they were gifts he made the plays when he needed to, and it was damn impressive. We need a little more of that on our D, and hopefully he'll continue to bring it.


P.S. I remember thinking last year that Landry was developing at a similar pace to what Taylor had, yeah he made a few mental errors, but his athleticism and instinct for the game were undeniable. At this point I think he may be developing faster then Taylor was at this point, as far as technique and reliability, perhaps Sean was a bigger play maker though, but its exciting to see this kid mature so fast, hopefully he'll get comfortable enough with Horton that he'll start knocking heads off and making the picks Taylor was late in his career. Also, I saw Landry coaching Horton before several plays, keeping him in position, reading the defense . . . that is invaluable when your trying to fill that position, and incredibly impressive from a second year player.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

could someone post a poll about who the starter should be next week? wisdom of the masses...

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Angry;476875][B]I am not taking anything away from Horton's performance. He played a hell of a game, but it was only one. All of those turnovers were "look what I found" plays. He happend to be in the right place at the right time, and he did what he was supposed to do. Who is to say that Doughty would not have done the same?[/B]

I do not think that Doughty has done anything to lose his job, but right now I would not want to be the secondary coach and have to make this decision.[/quote]

That's my thinking as well.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

I think Horton gets the start next week... and i say that because maybe the team chemistry is better with him out there, not knocking of doughty. But its about chemistry and how your guys play as total unit.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

i like what i saw with him yesterday..very aggressive....he,s another bright spot for us....he gets a game ball from me.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeRixqPYOhg]YouTube - Chris Horton Hit vs. Notre Dame[/url]

Nice college hit by Horton.

Didn't Horton have a similair pre-season game where he was always around the ball. I like the guy but he still needs to prove a bunch.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

yeah dbag, i guess our definitions of starter are different. i'd say 79-70 is a starter, not 69-60 as far as scout.com.

WillH - landry was a better prospect out of college than taylor was, he just doesn't have that fear factor... i mean, he'll still hit a guy out of bounds, but you never think he's trying to flat out destroy the guy. beyond that, he's faster and has better recognition... sean was never great at lining other people up, but landry is/will be.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

Even though the ball bounced straight to him on both plays, he at least caught the ball which puts him way ahead of several others in the secondary. Plus, it seems like some guys just have a knack for being in the right place at the right time. Others work just as hard and seem to be perpetually a moment too late.

Horton may not be named officially the starter, but he will certainly be on the field more and more. Let's just let it happen naturally, and not get to upset if Blache doesn't hold a ceremony where he declares Horton to be the second coming.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;476689]I agree, but I just think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves.

If Doughty had caught the two tipped INTs for some reason I think that people would be using that more to downplay the performance, but with Horton he's being crowned a "ballhawk". I just want to see a bit more of him before I'm comfortable saying he's the better option than Doughty.[/quote]

I know a lot of people are claiming that Horton was simply in the right place at the right time, but the kid was always around the ball in preseason too. I think, at the very least, he's a budding ballhawk. Some players have a natural ability to be around the ball, and Horton seems to be one of them.

If Blache doesn't feel the need to start Horton over Doughty, he damn well better find a way to put him on the field, often.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;476492]I don't want to piss on his parade too much but let's face it he happened to be around the ball which was good of course, but it's not like he made those plays on his own, he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Still, I'll take it. 2 INTs and a fumble recovery is a nice day at the office.[/quote]

Yeah, I got that feeling too. But, then I remembered something like this:

Once is a fluke, twice is a coincidence, thrice is confirmation.

He was in the right place, at the right time -- three times.

That said, I'm sure we'll get familiar with his shortcomings in the next few weeks -- as will opposing offenses.

I'm rooting for the guy though, he's one of the few players we have who plays with intensity.

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

That is what i like about horton..a raw intensity, im sure that will lead to zealous plays where he lets a receiver go and is burned, the trick is to coach a player like him and make his intensity combine with experience and wisdom. Landry has played alot smarter this year, and im a big believer in jerry gray

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;476998]He was in the right place, at the right time -- three times.quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]There was another young safety on this team that always seemed to be in the right place at the right time... I liked what I saw, and I want to see more. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Goodbye Doughty, Hello Horton!
 

This thread is so silly. Horton got some balls that were tipped right to his hands. The worst NFL defensive back makes those plays.