Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

:sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep::sleep:

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Well, on the subject of Bill Cowher ... the people who are desparate for a more wide open offense shouldn't be calling for him to come here. If there are complaints about Joe Gibbs being too 'Old School', it would be important to remember that Cowher is the Principal of Old School.

And he carries a large paddle.

(which might not be a bad thing, come to think of it.)

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Another bash Gibbs thread? WTF!!! I am tired of speculation about Coach Gibbs and his status with the team. He is not going any where unless he decides to. The man is a living legend and has returned the franchise to a winning record two out of four seasons. One playoff year and as stated in another post playoffs on the horizon this season.

Can we please stop promoting beyond the current coach until he has decided to move on?

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

As good of a coach Cowher, no one going to be consistant winner unless our front office changes. We need a GM, We all love Gibbs but he does not have a good eye for talent. Lloyd,Duckett,Howard,Brunell etc.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Great! I'm beginning to wonder if I'm on an Eagles' fan forum (no offense because the mods know I love the warpath.) We have a winning record and a great chance at improving on that record this weekend, and you guys are tasteless enough to talk about getting rid of Joe Gibbs in favor for starting all over again. Gluttons for punishment? I guess you guys just love staying in constant "rebuild" mode.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

we will win this weekend, but he road gets alot harder after that

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=CHIEF CHUCKING MY SPEAR;374857]As good of a coach Cowher, no one going to be consistant winner unless our front office changes. We need a GM, We all love Gibbs but he does not have a good eye for talent. Lloyd,Duckett,Howard,Brunell etc.[/QUOTE]

Moss, Portis, Cooley, Taylor, Landry, Campbell, Springs, etc.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Folks Coach Gibbs is a great guy and was a great coach during his first tenure here, but things were a lot more conducive to a title run back in 1981-1992 than now. Consider:


1. No FA in the Gibbs I era
2. No thuggish/greedy prime dona environment in the NFL at the time that came
as part of the ridiculous salaries these guys get paid.
3. Expansion has split the once huge Skins TV/revenue market between 3
teams(Ravens, Skins, Panthers)


Thing is we do not have the front office like we used to and also with the salary cap having a rich guy like Snyder as owner doesn't mean squat. Snyder also interferes,unlike MR Cook Sr that let Bobby Beathred do the football stuff. The old adage is th at lightning doesn't strike twice and I think that will be the case with Gibbs II. I would like to be wrong about this, but I doubt I will be when all is said and done. The NFL is also all about the above mentioned markets. When Gibbs was here for the first go round, Skins country consisted of E Pa, MD, VA,W Va, and both Carolinas. A huge market that generated a ton of $$$$$$$$$ for the NFL, so it was natural for the Skins to be able to prosper also. It made sense to the NFL to let the Skins succeed. Now I don't think they care since the market is so small.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;374900]Moss, Portis, Cooley, Taylor, Landry, Campbell, Springs, etc.[/quote]


Jury is still out on Campbell. Springs was a good acquisition, but can he stay healthy an entire season? Moss IMHO has had two very good years and then a major drop off. He is hurting still and should be benched to get 100%. We wasted a lot of $$$$$$$$ with Duckett. Dumb move period. Brunell basically cost Gibbs any chance of success of getting the franchise back. MB hung in there in '05 but reverted to '04 form when it counted in the playoffs. Giving up 1st round picks for FAs all the time is moronic, as it is expensive. A GM would really help the franchise.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Sometimes I think I would just love it if we hired a General Manager (whatever that means exactly) and then the team absolutley tanked. Just so people could get off this notion that a GM is going to magically solve everything and make no mistakes.

Who says we're giving up 1st round picks for FAs all the time?

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

I have heard the opinion from other fans that Danny should respectfully remove Gibbs from the Head coaching position and make him the GM. Hand the HC position over to either GW or Cowher (if there is any truth to that rumor), and give Saunders 1 year to fix this offense.

I am on the fence with this idea and it probably will never happen, but I have heard it brought up by more than one fan on more than one occasion.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Joe Gibbs era:

The good: Griffin, Portis, Washington, Sellers, Marshall (for a year at least), Taylor, Brunell, (arguably Pierce for giving him a shot), Springs, Cooley, Ryan Clark, Rogers, Campbell, Rabach, McIntosh, Montgomery, Golston, Randle El, Landry, Blades, Fletcher, Kendall, Carter (big maybe, IMO).

The bad: Barrow, Patten, Archuleta, letting Pierce go, letting Ryan Clark go, Fauria, Dallas Sartz, and like...Jordan Palmer.

The really really brutal: Lloyd, Duckett

Those are the facts, you be the judge.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

I could prolly rename this thread "I was wrong when..." Basically I've been more outspoken than most about Gibbs 2nd tenure being a flop and coming to an end soon. I still feel he is on his way out after this season, but I think it was, and is, out of line to talk about new coaching talent brought in. Gibbs is smart, he brought GW to coach defense, he brought Saunders to coach offense. Both guys have been enormously successful at what they do, and maybe Gibbs has a vision of his own that includes those two guys running this team after he leaves the coaching staff (maybe even to run the front office).

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;374902]Folks Coach Gibbs is a great guy and was a great coach during his first tenure here, but things were a lot more conducive to a title run back in 1981-1992 than now. Consider:


1. No FA in the Gibbs I era
2. No thuggish/greedy prime dona environment in the NFL at the time that came
as part of the ridiculous salaries these guys get paid.
3. Expansion has split the once huge Skins TV/revenue market between 3
teams(Ravens, Skins, Panthers)


Thing is we do not have the front office like we used to and also with the salary cap having a rich guy like Snyder as owner doesn't mean squat. Snyder also interferes,unlike MR Cook Sr that let Bobby Beathred do the football stuff. The old adage is th at lightning doesn't strike twice and I think that will be the case with Gibbs II. I would like to be wrong about this, but I doubt I will be when all is said and done. The NFL is also all about the above mentioned markets. When Gibbs was here for the first go round, Skins country consisted of E Pa, MD, VA,W Va, and both Carolinas. [B]A huge market that generated a ton of $$$$$$$$$ for the NFL, so it was natural for the Skins to be able to prosper also. It made sense to the NFL to let the Skins succeed. Now I don't think they care since the market is so small.[/[/B]quote]


WTF????? are you fuckin serious?!!! that is the stupidist thing Ive heard since the last time I came to the site and read another post almost as stupid as this. I am in complete agreement with the mods on their stand against stupid, worthless, & repeated topics. Ive come to the conclusion that some of you need to do one of the following:

a) quit drinking
b) drink more
c)quit doing drugs
d) do more drugs
e) get laid
f) yoga.........

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;374904]Sometimes I think I would just love it if we hired a General Manager (whatever that means exactly) and then the team absolutley tanked. Just so people could get off this notion that a GM is going to magically solve everything and make no mistakes.

Who says we're giving up 1st round picks for FAs all the time?[/quote]

Im with you bro. 100000000%

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=skinsguy;374865]Great! I'm beginning to wonder if I'm on an Eagles' fan forum (no offense because the mods know I love the warpath.) We have a winning record and a great chance at improving on that record this weekend, and you guys are tasteless enough to talk about getting rid of Joe Gibbs in favor for starting all over again. Gluttons for punishment? I guess you guys just love staying in constant "rebuild" mode.[/quote]


I couldnt agree more. I could not have put it into better words. very nicely done skinsguy.
:goodjob:

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;374865]Great! I'm beginning to wonder if I'm on an Eagles' fan forum (no offense because the mods know I love the warpath.) We have a winning record and a great chance at improving on that record this weekend, and you guys are tasteless enough to talk about getting rid of Joe Gibbs in favor for starting all over again. Gluttons for punishment? I guess you guys just love staying in constant "rebuild" mode.[/QUOTE]

No, they are tired of this constant state of were not rebuilding under Gibbs and failing the same old way week in and week out.

Some of these guys realize as I that this team is going no where regardless of our record, a trip to the playoffs to this team is nothing more than a weaker draft next year, and a symbol of how bad the rest of the NFC really is!

I guess we should leave it as is, tell me skinsguy what is your estimation of turn around for Gibbs? Or perhaps what should be a reasonable time frame for a new coaching staff to turn a team around?

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=SkinEmAll;374913]I couldnt agree more. I could not have put it into better words. very nicely done skinsguy.
:goodjob:[/QUOTE]

I dont think Gibbs can be fired nor do I think he should be. His recent tenure has been disappointing to say the least but it would be a PR nightmare for Danny to fire him. I hope this does not shock anyone but next year is the end of Gibbs contract and I would be shocked if he stayed any longer. Guess what that means? Rebuild time again. Even if they keep GW or AS as head coach I am sure they will want to do things their own way. This team is constantly rebuilding because they set them selves up to rebuild constantly. The poor results from this method speak for themselves. Hopefully someday the orgamization will see the light and right the ship. Until then its more of "hope we are a playoff team".

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

If Steinbrenner can fire Joe Torre (make him an offer designed to be rejected), then Snyder could do the same thing to Gibbs.

Not saying I want that to happen. Just saying.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=Bozzy;374952]If Steinbrenner can fire Joe Torre (make him an offer designed to be rejected), then Snyder could do the same thing to Gibbs.

Not saying I want that to happen. Just saying.[/quote]

It's apples and oranges.

Snyder has a different relationship with Gibbs vs. Steinbrenner and Torre.

Not to mention the relationship and legacy that Gibbs brings to the table with the fans.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=irish;374930]I dont think Gibbs can be fired nor do I think he should be. His recent tenure has been disappointing to say the least but it would be a PR nightmare for Danny to fire him. I hope this does not shock anyone but next year is the end of Gibbs contract and I would be shocked if he stayed any longer. Guess what that means? Rebuild time again. Even if they keep GW or AS as head coach I am sure they will want to do things their own way. This team is constantly rebuilding because they set them selves up to rebuild constantly. The poor results from this method speak for themselves. Hopefully someday the orgamization will see the light and right the ship. Until then its more of "hope we are a playoff team".[/quote]

If GW were to take over, which would be my guess at this point, I wouldn't see a major rebuilding in order. Having a coordinator take over would mean an easier transition vs. bringing in an outsider.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;374954]If GW were to take over, which would be my guess at this point, I wouldn't see a major rebuilding in order. Having a coordinator take over would mean an easier transition vs. bringing in an outsider.[/QUOTE]

It wont be a major rebulding but things will change. I dont think GW will be the head coach. I have heard on local sports talk shows that Danny does not really like GW but puts up with him because Gibbs wants him.

Personally I dont want to see GW as head coach, we know what he can do as head coach and its nothing special. I would like to see the Skins get a young, hungry, first time head coach to begin a new winning era.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=irish;374957]It wont be a major rebulding but things will change. I dont think GW will be the head coach. I have heard on local sports talk shows that Danny does not really like GW but puts up with him because Gibbs wants him.

Personally I dont want to see GW as head coach, we know what he can do as head coach and its nothing special. I would like to see the Skins get a young, hungry, first time head coach to begin a new winning era.[/QUOTE]

I've heard the same thing about Williams and Snyder.

I have mixed feelings about him being the next head coach. Besides, don't we have to interview other candidates because of the Rooney Rule anyway?

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=irish;374957]It wont be a major rebulding but things will change. I dont think GW will be the head coach. I have heard on local sports talk shows that Danny does not really like GW but puts up with him because Gibbs wants him.

Personally I dont want to see GW as head coach, we know what he can do as head coach and its nothing special. I would like to see the Skins get a young, hungry, first time head coach to begin a new winning era.[/quote]

Of course there will be some change, but it wouldn't be as radical if they bring in someone from the outside.

Personally, I can see Williams taking over for a variety of reasons. For starters, if Gibbs stays on as team president he's going to have a significant say in the matter. I can't see Gibbs going after a so called "sexy" hire, I think he would want to minimize the changes as much as possible and hiring from within is the way to go in that respect.

The fact that Williams has stayed on when he could have easily jumped ship a few times for head coaching jobs around the league tells me that some sort of informal agreement may already be in place. Yes I know the $1M buyout that's in place on his contract really doesn't mean much considering we're talking about Snyder, but I still think it represents the fact that this idea has been discussed behind closed doors and some sort of arrangement may already be in place.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;374900]Moss, Portis, Cooley, Taylor, Landry, Campbell, Springs, etc.[/quote]

Smoot let me ask you this. Does it mean Gibbs has an eye for talent when you go out and get a bunch of FA's? If you ask me anyone can go out and sign FA's looking to get paid. That's not a difficult thing to do as long as you have an owner willing to spend the $.

Plus the jury is still out on JC. Time will tell whether giving up an extra #1 was the right thing to do. So far, from what I've seen I would not have given an extra number one for him. That's not knocking JC in anyway. I just don't think it's smart doing 2-1 type deals that have been done with JC, Cooley, Rocky, Portis and Lloyd.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;374965]Of course there will be some change, but it wouldn't be as radical if they bring in someone from the outside.

Personally, I can see Williams taking over for a variety of reasons. For starters, if Gibbs stays on as team president he's going to have a significant say in the matter. I can't see Gibbs going after a so called "sexy" hire, I think he would want to minimize the changes as much as possible and hiring from within is the way to go in that respect.

The fact that Williams has stayed on when he could have easily jumped ship a few times for head coaching jobs around the league tells me that some sort of informal agreement may already be in place. Yes I know the $1M buyout that's in place on his contract really doesn't mean much considering we're talking about Snyder, but I still think it represents the fact that this idea has been discussed behind closed doors and some sort of arrangement may already be in place.[/QUOTE]

I dont think a young first time head coach would be a sexy hire. Tomlin was known to be head coach material but I wouldnt call him a sexy hire.

I think Skins fans have a somewhat skewed notion of GW's appeal to other teams as head coach. I dont really remember his name mentioned as a serious contender for any jobs last season, mentioned maybe but not seriously. I dont think GW is much of a hot item and believe he's still the Skins D coordinator because he didnt have any other options.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;374969]Smoot let me ask you this. Does it mean Gibbs has an eye for talent when you go out and get a bunch of FA's? If you ask me anyone can go out and sign FA's looking to get paid. That's not a difficult thing to do as long as you have an owner willing to spend the $.

Plus the jury is still out on JC. Time will tell whether giving up an extra #1 was the right thing to do. So far, from what I've seen I would not have given an extra number one for him. That's not knocking JC in anyway. I just don't think it's smart doing 2-1 type deals that have been done with JC, Cooley, Rocky, Portis and Lloyd.[/QUOTE]

IMO, Gibbs does not have a very good eye for talent with FAs or draft picks.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Cowher, never happen.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;374969]Smoot let me ask you this. Does it mean Gibbs has an eye for talent when you go out and get a bunch of FA's? If you ask me anyone can go out and sign FA's looking to get paid. That's not a difficult thing to do as long as you have an owner willing to spend the $.

Plus the jury is still out on JC. Time will tell whether giving up an extra #1 was the right thing to do. So far, from what I've seen I would not have given an extra number one for him. That's not knocking JC in anyway. I just don't think it's smart doing 2-1 type deals that have been done with JC, Cooley, Rocky, Portis and Lloyd.[/QUOTE]

I think when people cite Lloyd, Duckett, Brunell, Patten, Wright, Harris as some examples of why he sucks then it's perfectly ok to cite Moss, Portis, Taylor, Cooley, Fletcher, Suisham (gotta throw 5 Kicks some love) as examples of success.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=irish;374972]I dont think a young first time head coach would be a sexy hire. Tomlin was known to be head coach material but I wouldnt call him a sexy hire.

I think Skins fans have a somewhat skewed notion of GW's appeal to other teams as head coach. I dont really remember his name mentioned as a serious contender for any jobs last season, mentioned maybe but not seriously. I dont think GW is much of a hot item and believe he's still the Skins D coordinator because he didnt have any other options.[/quote]

Who says we would target a young first time hire anyway? I highly doubt we would go in that direction.

GW's name wasn't mentioned last year because he was basically viewed as being not available due to the extension he was given, and of course because the Skins had a horrible year defensively. Still, I'd be willing to bet his stock is still relatively high and he's still highly regarded. Hell, if Norv Turner can get chance after chance I see no reason why Williams wouldn't warrant a second chance. I'd find it very hard to believe that a coach with his resume wouldn't have any other options.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;374977]I think when people cite Lloyd, Duckett, Brunell, Patten, Wright, Harris as some examples of why he sucks then it's perfectly ok to cite Moss, Portis, Taylor, Cooley, Fletcher, Suisham (gotta throw 5 Kicks some love) as examples of success.[/quote]

Cheers to that.

People love to focus on the negatives, but throw a positive out there and it's immediately dismissed it seems.

It works both ways, you can't just blame, blame, blame and not toss out some praise when it's warranted.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=skinsfan69;374969]Smoot let me ask you this. Does it mean Gibbs has an eye for talent when you go out and get a bunch of FA's? If you ask me anyone can go out and sign FA's looking to get paid. That's not a difficult thing to do as long as you have an owner willing to spend the $.

Plus the jury is still out on JC. Time will tell whether giving up an extra #1 was the right thing to do. So far, from what I've seen I would not have given an extra number one for him. That's not knocking JC in anyway. I just don't think it's smart doing 2-1 type deals that have been done with JC, Cooley, Rocky, Portis and Lloyd.[/quote]

Sure free agents are easier to evaluate vs. college players because at least you have tape on them at the pro level and you have a good idea of if they can play at this level, but you still have to factor in whether they are a good fit for your team and system. And that's not necessarily an easy thing as we've seen with some of our FA busts.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;374982]Who says we would target a young first time hire anyway? I highly doubt we would go in that direction.

GW's name wasn't mentioned last year because he was basically viewed as being not available due to the extension he was given, and of course because the Skins had a horrible year defensively. Still, I'd be willing to bet his stock is still relatively high and he's still highly regarded. Hell, if Norv Turner can get chance after chance I see no reason why Williams wouldn't warrant a second chance. I'd find it very hard to believe that a coach with his resume wouldn't have any other options.[/QUOTE]

I agree that the Skins likely would not persue a young coach like Tomlin and IMO thats the problem. The Skins seem unwilling or unable to learn from their mistakes so I am sure they will keep doing what has brought them 15+ years of losing football.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=irish;374988]I agree that the Skins likely would not persue a young coach like Tomlin and IMO thats the problem. The Skins seem unwilling or unable to learn from their mistakes so I am sure they will keep doing what has brought them 15+ years of losing football.[/quote]

Why is a young first time hire the answer?

Tomlin stepped into a great situation in Pittsburgh and that undoubtedy has been a big reason for his success. How are things working out for Kiffin in Oakland? How about Mangini sitting at 1-8 in NY?

Just wondering why you feel that unless we hire a young guy then things are doomed.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

A younger coach [u]could[/u] provide more stability to the staff in the long term. Like the original focus of this thread, Cowher was 35 when he took over the Steelers job. However, Tomlin made sense to take over for Cowher because he was already with the team, and being molded to take over. Lane Kiffin is an easier chance to take because of his background (Son of Monte, worked under Pete Carroll at USC). Mangini as well, as he worked for Belicheck.

Dallas could have done the same thing with Jason Garrett, but decided to go with a head coach with a bit more experience, even though his track record in the NFL as a head coach wasn't very good in Wade Phillips.

There is definitely arguments for both sides. If Gibbs is around next year and the team continues with success, I could see keeping the status quo. However, it will be 5 years, and depending on future success, 1 playoff year in 5 isn't very good, and would be time to rock the boat so to speak.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Tomlin was being molded to take over the Steelers?

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

Not sure what I was thinking...perhaps I was thinking Garrett...needless to say, it's been a rough morning.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;374991]Why is a young first time hire the answer?

Tomlin stepped into a great situation in Pittsburgh and that undoubtedy has been a big reason for his success. How are things working out for Kiffin in Oakland? How about Mangini sitting at 1-8 in NY?

Just wondering why you feel that unless we hire a young guy then things are doomed.[/QUOTE]

What Bozie says about stability is what I feel so I wont rehash that. I dont think the Skins are doomed if they dont go young but what I do think is that what they have been doing in terms of lots of coaching turn-over and hiring older coaches isnt working. Why not try something different? It cant work out any worse than what the team has been experiencing. Like the saying goes "if you keep on doing what you have always done, you will keep on getting what you always got." Lately the Skins have been getting crap.

I really dont see it happening though as danny likes to hire a "name" as coach to make a splash. Hiring a young unknown wont provide Danny with the kind of splash he likes.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=GTripp0012;374907]Joe Gibbs era:

The good: Griffin, Portis, Washington, Sellers, Marshall (for a year at least), Taylor, Brunell, (arguably Pierce for giving him a shot), Springs, Cooley, Ryan Clark, Rogers, Campbell, Rabach, McIntosh, Montgomery, Golston, Randle El, Landry, Blades, Fletcher, Kendall, Carter (big maybe, IMO).

The bad: Barrow, Patten, Archuleta, letting Pierce go, letting Ryan Clark go, Fauria, Dallas Sartz, and like...Jordan Palmer.

The really really brutal: Lloyd, Duckett

Those are the facts, you be the judge.[/quote]

Yea, i think we all can agree that theres some good and bad.

Re: Bill Cowher!!
 

[quote=Mattyk72;374991]Tomlin stepped into a great situation in Pittsburgh and that undoubtedy has been a big reason for his success. How are things working out for Kiffin in Oakland? How about Mangini sitting at 1-8 in NY?[/quote]Oakland Raiders 2006:

Points Scored: 168
Points Against: 332

Oakland Raiders 2007:

Points Scored: 152
Points Against: 177

With a very minor increase in offensive talent, Lane Kiffin has pretty much done in 8 games what it took the Raider offense 16 to do last year. Suffering a massive defensive regression, he's still managed to cut the 2-6 Raiders point differential to -25 over the first 8 games as coach, compared to the -164 it was last season.

It's too bad that the coach of the year award is really just the "surprise team award," because it's hard to make an argument against the job Lane Kiffin has done with an underachieving, talentless offensive unit. I'm not going to apologize for his inability to turn the Raiders into a world beater from the start, are you?

And in the case of Mangini, he inherited a team that's only asset was a good QB who was coming off a serious shoulder injury. He was every bit as bad as the worst teams last year, yet he beat them all, beat the f-ing Patriots on the road, and won ten games.

No coach is a miracle worker, but the younger coaches have recently had a great collective success rate, because they tend not to follow the bs coaching theories that are old and outdated and never worked in the first place. They are good coaches, because they tend to be ahead of the curve.

After all, isn't that how Gibbs got where he is?