Re: If No Deal is done when what????
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359]So create a contract that basically pays them the minimum based on their experience in 2006 and pays an insane amount in the uncapped 2007 year?

I don't know as much as I would like an uncapped year we can't lose guys like Jansen and Washington.[/QUOTE]

if thats what he meant, then no, i think the 30% rule would kill that. releasing and resigning right away would mean that you can (i think) prorate a bonus out three years, but eating the release fee would totally counteract that.

Re: If No Deal is done when what????
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Well I think as you mentioned earlier, a big problem is going to be depth. We can put in someone like Nemo (or one of those Canadians we signed) for Betts, or Aki for Salave'a. Serious drop-offs but I think that's what we'll see for this year at least. Not much depth, and pray we don't have too many injuries.

Here's another question. And I don't want to think this way, but how much do we save if Sean Taylor is spending the 2006 season in prison?[/QUOTE]

probably nothing... he has one of the smallest contracts on the team. If you're suspended you get paychecks with held, if you're on IR you get less, but i don't think being in jail helps.

Re: If extension to the CBA is done, then what?
 

gonna try to see if i can figure a way under the cap... its the last 8$mill thats the b**ch. without players take real honest and actual pay cuts (which is rare, and the skins needs players to give up a LOT of money) it going to be very very bloody.

Re: If extension to the CBA is done, then what?
 

[B]Normally, I don't share anything that profootballtalk.com says. Their site's "inside scoops" are about as reliable as Pinto. But, given the seriousness of the issue, I thought I'd relay the following "article" on the site. It reports as follows: [/B]
CBA "IS GONNA GET DONE"

A league source tells us that an extension to the Collective Bargaining Agreement "is gonna get done" in the near future, and that the start of free agency will be delayed by "a week or so" so that this year's class of free agents will hit the market under the terms of the new labor deal.

As it currently stands, free agency is set to begin on Friday, March 3. Because 2006 is the last capped year under the existing CBA, various provisions of the contract between the NFL and the player's union would make it much harder for teams to navigate the salary cap in signing new players.

There has been plenty of gloom-and-doom rhetoric of late from NFL executive director Gene Upshaw regarding the status of the talks, even though we've continued to hear that progress was being made. An industry source (who apparently was right on the money) told us on Friday that, in his opinion, Upshaw and Commissioner Paul Tagliabue have been working together to put pressure on the owners to resolve their differences regarding the proposed expansion of local revenues that are not currently shared.

The NFLPA has insisted on the inclusion of such monies in the funding of the league-wide salary cap. But if the local revenues aren't shared, the salary cap for the low-earning teams would be artificially inflated by the local income of the big-money teams.

Though no specifics as to the terms of the coming CBA and possibly expanded revenue sharing are available, it's looking stronger than ever than something will happen soon.

Something Gibbs said and McKay today
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan][B]Normally, I don't share anything that profootballtalk.com says. Their site's "inside scoops" are about as reliable as Pinto. But, given the seriousness of the issue, I thought I'd relay the following "article" on the site. It reports as follows: [/B]
CBA "IS GONNA GET DONE"

A league source tells us that an extension to the Collective Bargaining Agreement "is gonna get done" in the near future, and that the start of free agency will be delayed by "a week or so" so that this year's class of free agents will hit the market under the terms of the new labor deal.

As it currently stands, free agency is set to begin on Friday, March 3. Because 2006 is the last capped year under the existing CBA, various provisions of the contract between the NFL and the player's union would make it much harder for teams to navigate the salary cap in signing new players.

There has been plenty of gloom-and-doom rhetoric of late from NFL executive director Gene Upshaw regarding the status of the talks, even though we've continued to hear that progress was being made. An industry source (who apparently was right on the money) told us on Friday that, in his opinion, Upshaw and Commissioner Paul Tagliabue have been working together to put pressure on the owners to resolve their differences regarding the proposed expansion of local revenues that are not currently shared.

The NFLPA has insisted on the inclusion of such monies in the funding of the league-wide salary cap. But if the local revenues aren't shared, the salary cap for the low-earning teams would be artificially inflated by the local income of the big-money teams.

Though no specifics as to the terms of the coming CBA and possibly expanded revenue sharing are available, it's looking stronger than ever than something will happen soon.[/QUOTE]

I read something along this line off the AP!

Also the AP story read a quote from Gibbs that said" he remaines optimistic that the start of free agency could still be delayed a couple of weeks"- A point Atlanta Falcons GM Rich McKay disagreed with. And the cumulative effect has created uncertainty about how to handle off season moves. "The challenge will be the day after free agency opens" McKay said" the phone might ring,but I don't know if will beable to answer it. We might have to let it ring".

I hope both sides are playing chicken...lets hope they no one gets burned!

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

cutting lavar can still save 6.5mill from his bonus right? (how big is the bonus?) and jansen, thomas, and brunell all have high base salaries, so if they each give back a million (500k this year and next cause of the 30% rule, if you turn it into bonus money then they'd have to give back a lot more, but less actual money)... that puts you about even, then you just need 2mill for draft picks and to know that our free agents are all gone and no one else is coming in through free agency.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=RedskinPete]So if the CBA is not done by friday march 3rd what will the Redskins have to do? I have seen that the Redskins are 21 million over the cape. Who will be cut or how will we get below that! I saw VP of football operations V.Cerrato say the if the is no CBA the the team[Redskins] would do most of thier player acquisitions in the draft not free agency! That kind of cape short fall is no small matter! A new WR or what ever seems way off!!! We will be lucky to keep what we have on the team now.[/QUOTE]
"Some in the NFL believe Redskins owner Daniel Snyder is particularly torn by the collective bargaining impasse. Snyder needs a new labor deal to ease the team's cap issues in 2006. But he also has spent heavily on free agents in the past and, [color=red]if an extension is not completed, there would be no salary cap in 2007[/color]. That would allow him to spend as lavishly as he likes on new players."
-[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/24/AR2006022401722.html"]Washington Post[/url]


[color=black]It's kind of a "win-win" situation because if an extension is not reached there won't be a cap in 2007...We just have to cut who we can cut, sign who we can sign, and trade who we can trade. It seems devastating but I think we'll be alright...If not; We will have our fun in 2007. [/color]

Considering that an extension isn’t reach, I suggest we trade up in the draft to acquire a WR using next year’s picks. Without a cap, who needs the draft when we can sign proven players where money isn't an issue?

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

Not looking good.


[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2343073"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2343073[/url]

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Skins_4_Lyfe]
Considering that an extension isn’t reach, I suggest we trade up in the draft to acquire a WR using next year’s picks. Without a cap, who needs the draft when we can sign proven players where money isn't an issue?[/QUOTE]


guys wont hit free agency for 6 years after being drafted instead of 4 years out. good players wont be tossed for monetary concerns. more than one team will try to buy a superbowl, and the prices will at some point hit saturation (in all likelyhood). a draft violates anti-trust laws anyways (robs draftees of the chance to take competitive bids for their services).

If the draft goes, then we can buy college players... but most free agents are likely to be junk the original team didn't want.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

i just read an article on foxsports that said monday the nfl was going to announce the 2006-2007 salary cap at 95 million.they also said there would be an extension on the cba deadline.i think this is wonderful news

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25]i just read an article on foxsports that said monday the nfl was going to announce the 2006-2007 salary cap at 95 million.they also said there would be an extension on the cba deadline.i think this is wonderful news[/QUOTE]

if its true then yeah, it means we could actually add free agents and pay our draft picks ;)

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Skins_4_Lyfe]"Some in the NFL believe Redskins owner Daniel Snyder is particularly torn by the collective bargaining impasse. Snyder needs a new labor deal to ease the team's cap issues in 2006. But he also has spent heavily on free agents in the past and, [color=red]if an extension is not completed, there would be no salary cap in 2007[/color]. That would allow him to spend as lavishly as he likes on new players."
-[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/24/AR2006022401722.html"]Washington Post[/url]


[color=black]It's kind of a "win-win" situation because if an extension is not reached there won't be a cap in 2007...We just have to cut who we can cut, sign who we can sign, and trade who we can trade. It seems devastating but I think we'll be alright...If not; We will have our fun in 2007. [/color]

Considering that an extension isn’t reach, I suggest we trade up in the draft to acquire a WR using next year’s picks. Without a cap, who needs the draft when we can sign proven players where money isn't an issue?[/QUOTE]

One issue is that in the uncapped year there are other rules that go into effect, one of them being that the free agency year moves to the 7th year of NFL experience. There are other things that were also built into the current CBA to serve as encouragement to avoid losing the cap though I don't know what they all are.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan]One issue is that in the uncapped year there are other rules that go into effect, one of them being that the free agency year moves to the 7th year of NFL experience. There are other things that were also built into the current CBA to serve as encouragement to avoid losing the cap though I don't know what they all are.[/QUOTE]

players dragging the NFL to the courts over anti-trust issues in which the players would win decisively (the only reason the current illegal practices are allowed is because the union agreed to them).

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

"Our scout.com sources at the NFL combine have informed WarpathInsiders.com that there have been signs of progress towards a new collective bargaining agreement.

Members of one NFL organization are telling their staff that there is a very strong chance that the CBA will be extended by the deadline. Significant recent progress has been made, according to our source.

Another NFL source has told Scout.com that the 2006 salary cap will be announced on Monday, February 27. 2006's cap, according to this source, will be $95 million. This is on the high end of what was expected - most estimates were anywhere from $92 to $95 million.

Atlanta Falcons GM Rich McKay, who co-chairs the Competition Committee and has long been a major player in league matters, talked to the media on Saturday about the possible extension to the Collective Bargaining Agreement that would greatly affect how cap money is spent.

McKay said that the teams remain hopeful that there will be an extension, despite Player’s Association head Gene Upshaw's recent comments that agents should negotiate as if there will be no extension. McKay also said that without a new deal, the March 3 free agency deadline will not be pushed back.

McKay said that it would be "extremely difficult" to operate without an extension.

Without a cap, McKay said that the "tricks of the trade" will all drop into this year's cap, affecting cap room. Contracts would only be able to be four years long and he thinks trades will be less likely because of accelerated bonuses. He also expects free agency would be slower."

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

It strikes me as odd that Upshaw seems to spend more time talking to the agents than he does to his members. Or is it just that agents blab more to the press? In any event, it's poor public relations to have the details of these meetings leak. If this struggle is viewed as being between the owners and the agents rather than between the owners and the players, the players lose whatever sympathy they have among the fans, which isn't much.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

agents tend to be the voice pieces of the players in these matters (money) and they need to know how to work the contracts... I agree that the fans have generally no respect for agents though since they tend to promote greed and hinder a fan's team (whichever team that may be) by demanding more than $1 contracts ;)

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

How much will we save if we chop Mark Brunell. Don't start the flame war, but maybe we should keep Ramsey and get rid of Brunell's monster cap number.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=drew54]How much will we save if we chop Mark Brunell. Don't start the flame war, but maybe we should keep Ramsey and get rid of Brunell's monster cap number.[/QUOTE]

no cba or pre june 1 and we'd have to pay 300k more to cut him than keep him.

if a new cba happens, he can be cut post june 1 and save 1mill next year and something around 4.5-5mill this year.

ramsey would cost 1.88mill to keep. I mentioned this possibility in the cap analysis thread; it would make some sense (though i HIGHLY [b]HIGHLY[/b] doubt gibbs would ever consider it).

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]no cba or pre june 1 and we'd have to pay 300k more to cut him than keep him.

if a new cba happens, he can be cut post june 1 and save 1mill next year and something around 4.5-5mill this year.

ramsey would cost 1.88mill to keep. I mentioned this possibility in the cap analysis thread; it would make some sense (though i HIGHLY [b]HIGHLY[/b] doubt gibbs would ever consider it).[/QUOTE]
Wish i was your age Guy.....more responsibilities theses days....used to have the energy to be on top of things b4. Long story short...thx 4 your time and KNOWLEDGE...u my new hero :) and not jokin....appreciate your research dude. :food-smil
that ramsey fan guy seems to have a I AM RIGHT ALWAYS attitude....nice to hear from a true skins fan.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=44deisel44]Wish i was your age Guy.....more responsibilities theses days....used to have the energy to be on top of things b4. Long story short...thx 4 your time and KNOWLEDGE...u my new hero :) and not jokin....appreciate your research dude. :food-smil
that ramsey fan guy seems to have a I AM RIGHT ALWAYS attitude....nice to hear from a true skins fan.[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about Ramseyfan? Our very own Ramseyfan? I don't agree with him on a lot, but I don't think he has an "always right" attitude and he does a good job of presenting evidence to support his claim. I think he's a true skins fan

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

Someone help me on understanding this one, but if the salary cap is $95 million for 2006, than the Redskins are only over by about $11 million? And if thats the case then we are not really in that bad of shape, like say the jets or oakland, right???

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]Someone help me on understanding this one, but if the salary cap is $95 million for 2006, than the Redskins are only over by about $11 million? And if thats the case then we are not really in that bad of shape, like say the jets or oakland, right???[/QUOTE]

The Redskins are over the 2006 cap by $20 million. Plus, they need room to sign Clark and Royal (no biggie). Plus, they need about $2 million to sign rookies. Plus, they need room to sign any free agents to replace cut or traded players and those who replace players whose contracts expired.

Without an extension to the deal, it is going to get REAL ugly (i.e. losing some star players or a bunch of good ones we don't want to lose).

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=44deisel44]Wish i was your age Guy.....more responsibilities theses days....used to have the energy to be on top of things b4. Long story short...thx 4 your time and KNOWLEDGE...u my new hero :) and not jokin....appreciate your research dude. :food-smil
that ramsey fan guy seems to have a I AM RIGHT ALWAYS attitude....nice to hear from a true skins fan.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry that you feel that way. I definately never wanted to sound like an a-hole. People that know me well definately wouldn't say that I am arrogant. Perhaps I have sounded like that sometimes, but I can assure you that it was not my intent. In point of fact, I have loudly and repeatedly eaten crow about several issues (i.e. Gibbs' decision to bench Ramsey in favor of Brunell). I have a lot to learn about the cap, the front office, the players, the coaches, and the game more generally.

If you point me to any instances in which I sounded arrogant, I would be happy to either clarify my statements, apologize for sounding obnoxious, or both.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

Yeah, my bad, I see that now, I must have see different numbers in my mind when I looked at our cap sheets...

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]I am sorry that you feel that way. I definately never wanted to sound like an a-hole. People that know me well definately wouldn't say that I am arrogant. Perhaps I have sounded like that sometimes, but I can assure you that it was not my intent. In point of fact, I have loudly and repeatedly eaten crow about several issues (i.e. Gibbs' decision to bench Ramsey in favor of Brunell). I have a lot to learn about the cap, the front office, the players, the coaches, and the game more generally.

If you point me to any instances in which I sounded arrogant, I would be happy to either clarify my statements, apologize for sounding obnoxious, or both.[/QUOTE]

I just can't imagine he's talking about you. It doesn't seem to fit.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]I just can't imagine he's talking about you. It doesn't seem to fit.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, but I am sure I have said something at some point that sounds obnoxious or arrogrant. My apologies for whatever I did or said.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

So let me get this straight. The reason we want a CBA is because without one we can't restructure deals 3-7 years in the future since their will be no salary cap. And instead of restructuring guys like Jansen, Thomas, Arrington, and Washington we'll have to cut guys like Jansen and Washington to get under the cap. Then we're going to have to carry about 15 rookies on our roster like the Ravens did 2 years removed from the their Super Bowl win.

Also one more question:
Is the reason deals can't be restructured is because its not legal or it would be stupid for the players to do it?

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359]So let me get this straight. The reason we want a CBA is because without one we can't restructure deals 3-7 years in the future since their will be no salary cap. And instead of restructuring guys like Jansen, Thomas, Arrington, and Washington we'll have to cut guys like Jansen and Washington to get under the cap. Then we're going to have to carry about 15 rookies on our roster like the Ravens did 2 years removed from the their Super Bowl win. [/QUOTE]

That's how I understand it.

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359]
Also one more question:
Is the reason deals can't be restructured is because its not legal or it would be stupid for the players to do it?[/QUOTE]

Deals can't be restructured like they used to because we can't covert base salaries into bonuses over the next few seasons because there's no cap extension. [I]I think[/I] we can just convert salaries to bonuses and prorate them over the next two seasons.

As for whether it makes sense for the players to restructure, I simply don't know. It might make sense for players to renegotiate if they are well paid right now and they wouldn't command comparable money on the free agent market.

Canuck, care to chime in and help out with your expertise?

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]Someone help me on understanding this one, but if the salary cap is $95 million for 2006, than the Redskins are only over by about $11 million? And if thats the case then we are not really in that bad of shape, like say the jets or oakland, right???[/QUOTE]

116 - 95 = 21$ mill over... the raiders are over by more, but they're MUCH better off, becaue they can release 2 players and clear 18.5$mill in space, even without a new cba... the skins can't do that cause ALL the contracts here inflate at the same time, so there's no big money guys to drop outside of maybe lavar.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag359]So let me get this straight. The reason we want a CBA is because without one we can't restructure deals 3-7 years in the future since their will be no salary cap. And instead of restructuring guys like Jansen, Thomas, Arrington, and Washington we'll have to cut guys like Jansen and Washington to get under the cap. Then we're going to have to carry about 15 rookies on our roster like the Ravens did 2 years removed from the their Super Bowl win.

Also one more question:
Is the reason deals can't be restructured is because its not legal or it would be stupid for the players to do it?[/QUOTE]

its legal to restructure, but without a cba the bonuses can't be pro-rated like normal and you have to obey the 30% rule (which means converting 2 years from base salary to bonus instead of one... and with limited pro-ration you end up paying a lot of the money you were trying to move down the road immediately anyways).


the skins only have 3 people with base salaries in the 3.5-4mill range right now (jansen, brunell, and thomas), so there's just not much money to move. (the next highest base salary is 1.5mill which is nearly nothing above vet min).

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]116 - 95 = 21$ mill over... the raiders are over by more, but they're MUCH better off, becaue they can release 2 players and clear 18.5$mill in space, even without a new cba... the skins can't do that cause ALL the contracts here inflate at the same time, so there's no big money guys to drop outside of maybe lavar.[/QUOTE]
ok, so what would you say would be our worse case plan if there is no cba agreement, like who do you see us getting rid of, or what other options do we have?

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Redskins8588]ok, so what would you say would be our worse case plan if there is no cba agreement, like who do you see us getting rid of, or what other options do we have?[/QUOTE]

listed this before, but basically, if lavar can be ditched and his bonus withheld, that's the biggest move (5mill i believe).

Lavar - $5mill
Bowen - $2mill
Harris - $2mill
Noble - $1.7mill
Ramsey - $1.6mill
Hall - $1.18mill
Raymer - $985k
Thrash - $875k
Tupa - $601k
Prioleau - $550k

[b]that's about $16mill in somewhat easy cuts...[/b]

Frost (P), Brown (WR), Farris (WR), Riley (DE) - 460k each, but would have to be replaced with younger FAs at 235k-310k a pop... at 230k savings each - $920k

5 no names at 385k - 235 = 150k savings each - $750k

[b] up to about 17.7mill, as you can see, its getting harder[/b]

only 3 guys on the roster have over 1.5mill in base salary (jansen, thomas, brunell), if you can ask them to each give back (actual give money back, yikes) 500k this year (AND enough money next year to comply with the 30% rule)
jansen - $500k (gives back 500k in 2006 and 0k in 2007)
brunell - $500k (500k in 06 and 650k in 07)
thomas - $500k (500k in 06 and 100k in 07)

[b]up to 19.2mill and we've already had to make huge logic stretches... now it gets really harsh[/b]

releasing 16 1st/2nd years and bringing in absolutely NO competition for training camp (10@235k, 6@310k) - $2.35mill + $1.86mill = $4.21mill

[b]23.4mill, just enough to sign rookies and pray no one sucks or gets hurt in training camp[/b]

and that's a real stretch, in reality, guys like betts, sellers, and maybe starters like dockery or daniels or patten or wynn all get released too.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

can we really afford to get rid of bowen and prioleau with clark as a free-agent and taylor's legal issues? prioleau is a heady guy who can backup both safety positions, i think williams keeps him, and they resign clark. your thoughts?

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Sean Taylor is God]can we really afford to get rid of bowen and prioleau with clark as a free-agent and taylor's legal issues? prioleau is a heady guy who can backup both safety positions, i think williams keeps him, and they resign clark. your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

The cap may force our hand at safety and other positions as well. All depends on the CBA getting worked out.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Sean Taylor is God]can we really afford to get rid of bowen and prioleau with clark as a free-agent and taylor's legal issues? prioleau is a heady guy who can backup both safety positions, i think williams keeps him, and they resign clark. your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

If we lost Prileau, I wouldnt feel right having him as my 4th cornerback in Madden anymore. I couldnt cope.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Sean Taylor is God]can we really afford to get rid of bowen and prioleau with clark as a free-agent and taylor's legal issues? prioleau is a heady guy who can backup both safety positions, i think williams keeps him, and they resign clark. your thoughts?[/QUOTE]

if the question is prioleau or jansen, then yes, yes we can ;)

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

They just announced that the CBA is done. All that's left is revenue sharing. Get 'er done!

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

[QUOTE=Sean Taylor is God]They just announced that the CBA is done. All that's left is revenue sharing. Get 'er done![/QUOTE]

I have not see anything about this on any of the news outlets? You might wanted to post where next time so we can see! If so that is good news!! :towel: What is the team cap???

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

Word seems to be the CBA is coming in the next few days, but I haven't seen anything that says it's officially done.

Re: If the extension to the CBA can't get done, then what?
 

profootballtalk, if you consider them reliable.