Re: Tax bill
 

I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182545]I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.[/quote]

Thank you.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182545]I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.[/quote]

Idk the correlation Chico is trying to make, but I am saying the system as its' set up (where marijuana is still frowned upon despite the growing realization it's not as addictive as prescription drugs) is a partial reason the heroin epidemic is so widespread today. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but it's obvious there are people out there that get a prescription for some pain medication and end up switching to heroin when their habit can't be supported by their wallet. Now how much of that is people being weak-minded and not necessarily needing pain meds? Idk. But I do know it's very easy to get pain pills, whether it's on the street or through faking an injury.

Again, I don't see an answer as long as healthcare continues to be a for-profit industry. I doubt any of the large script manufacturers give two shits about the heroin epidemic as long as the shareholders/higher ups are happy.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182528]Really, our only hope is that Chico and the rest of his supporters will flip in 5 years when they realize the middle class cuts were only temporary and the corporate cuts were permanent. According to [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/11/30/how-the-republican-tax-bill-benefits-the-rich-according-to-government-analysis/"]the analysis [/URL] in about 5 years or so (should be just enough time for Chico to forget Trump/Congress is responsible for this) the middle class will see their taxes go up.[/quote]

It's hilarious to me for people to knock the tax bill for changes that take effect in 5 - 10 years. The economy isn't a 5year plan that the old communists (and current ones in China) like to draw up. In 5 years, the House of Representatives will have had 2 elections, the Senate will have seen nearly 70percent of it's membership gone through elections (more if the slush fund ever becomes public). And then to say that Corporate tax cuts are permanent. The Congress doesn't work like that. They are not revoking their right to change any tax law they see fit. But of course Corporations do make plans based on stability so the corporate tax laws should be written with an eye on stability.

Fyi in 5 years, Trump will have already faced his second election - if he makes it that far - and if the economy does stay on a growth path, he certainly will argue the tax bill was a big part of it.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182547]Idk the correlation Chico is trying to make, but I am saying the system as its' set up (where marijuana is still frowned upon despite the growing realization it's not as addictive as prescription drugs) is a partial reason the heroin epidemic is so widespread today. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but it's obvious there are people out there that get a prescription for some pain medication and end up switching to heroin when their habit can't be supported by their wallet. Now how much of that is people being weak-minded and not necessarily needing pain meds? Idk. But I do know it's very easy to get pain pills, whether it's on the street or through faking an injury.

Again, I don't see an answer as long as healthcare continues to be a for-profit industry. I doubt any of the large script manufacturers give two shits about the heroin epidemic as long as the shareholders/higher ups are happy.[/quote]

Marijuana and opioids as a method of pain relief is about as big of a false equivalency as has ever existed.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182547]Idk the correlation Chico is trying to make, but I am saying the system as its' set up (where marijuana is still frowned upon despite the growing realization it's not as addictive as prescription drugs) is a partial reason the heroin epidemic is so widespread today. I'm not going to put a percentage on it, but it's obvious there are people out there that get a prescription for some pain medication and end up switching to heroin when their habit can't be supported by their wallet. Now how much of that is people being weak-minded and not necessarily needing pain meds? Idk. But I do know it's very easy to get pain pills, whether it's on the street or through faking an injury.

Again, I don't see an answer as long as healthcare continues to be a for-profit industry. I doubt any of the large script manufacturers give two shits about the heroin epidemic as long as the shareholders/higher ups are happy.[/quote]

As recently as 2 years ago the FDA approved Oxycontin use for children as young as 11. We have created a positive feedback loop of opioid addiction by allowing the targeting of young people.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182549]Marijuana and opioids as a method of pain relief is about as big of a false equivalency as has ever existed.[/quote]

Why don't we ask NFL players [URL="https://www.theplayerstribune.com/eugene-monroe-nfl-opioids-cannabis-my-body-remembers/"]what they prefer[/URL]? They'd have a pretty good idea about the constant physical pain that accompanies playing in the NFL. Let me guess: You don't care what their opinion is, because they know the risks when they sign up.

Nah, why don't we ask people [URL="http://www.newsweek.com/will-jeff-sessions-medical-marijuana-718676"]that have tried everything[/URL] to handle pain management but cannabis/cannabinoids was the only effective treatment?

Nah, why don't we ask people that have extreme epilepsy if cannabis derived substances [URL="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-cannabis-treat-epileptic-seizures/"]have worked where opoids/others have failed[/URL]? Never mind that your attorney general doesn't even want medical marijuana to be legal.

My only point was that medical marijuana has shown to be effective, and less addictive than opoids. But opoids are legal, and have the backing of a multi-billion dollar industry, which is a big reason why marijuana is not. I'm not gonna argue that average people that enjoy getting high need it, just that it should be legal and regulated on the same basis as alcohol so we can all share that nice boost of tax revenue we would see if it was federally legalized.

Re: Tax bill
 

Not an argument that there is a problem never said other wise but it's all so ignorant to say that it just started and it's all Obamacare fault. Different medication works differently on different people ,what works for one does not for another.I get that and yes there are Doctors that have abused their prescription privileges.

Medical marijuana has it's place as do opiods, as does all medicine...if handled [B]"CORRECTLY".[/B]
There is a personal responsibility that must be admitted to,you can't pull a Chico and blame Obamacare becuase of your political affiliation.

Mooby ,you're right lets ask the NFL players ,from the 60's and 70's,lets hear their stories of ,pain shots before a game,steroids use and pain pills abuse .They pretty much all did it to play,all needed the money back then.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182545]I think you guys know this, but I’m a finance executive at a health system in Philly. The idea that Obamacare caused, or failed to address, or exacerbated the opioid crisis is flat out asinine.

The law had a lot of flaws for sure but that is absolutely not one of them. It frankly makes about as much sense as saying the first amendment caused fake news.[/quote]

I appreciate the input and didn’t know. It’s just always been on my mind since adoption of the healthcare law and the opioid deaths kicked into overdrive right at the same time.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1182560]I appreciate the input and didn’t know. It’s just always been on my mind since adoption of the healthcare law and the opioid deaths kicked into overdrive right at the same time.[/quote]

It also rains every time I put my umbrella up, maybe I should stop doing that.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=mooby;1182552]Why don't we ask NFL players [URL="https://www.theplayerstribune.com/eugene-monroe-nfl-opioids-cannabis-my-body-remembers/"]what they prefer[/URL]? They'd have a pretty good idea about the constant physical pain that accompanies playing in the NFL. Let me guess: You don't care what their opinion is, because they know the risks when they sign up.

Nah, why don't we ask people [URL="http://www.newsweek.com/will-jeff-sessions-medical-marijuana-718676"]that have tried everything[/URL] to handle pain management but cannabis/cannabinoids was the only effective treatment?

Nah, why don't we ask people that have extreme epilepsy if cannabis derived substances [URL="https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/can-cannabis-treat-epileptic-seizures/"]have worked where opoids/others have failed[/URL]? Never mind that your attorney general doesn't even want medical marijuana to be legal.

My only point was that medical marijuana has shown to be effective, and less addictive than opoids. But opoids are legal, and have the backing of a multi-billion dollar industry, which is a big reason why marijuana is not. I'm not gonna argue that average people that enjoy getting high need it, just that it should be legal and regulated on the same basis as alcohol so we can all share that nice boost of tax revenue we would see if it was federally legalized.[/quote]

Marijuana is not as effective at relieving pain. There have been countless studies on this. If you ask NFL players, who are about as physically tough a group as you can find, the responses you get are not representative of the broader population. Taking the edge off may be all a player requires, because he’s tough as nails. A 60 year old woman recovering from a hip replacement is entirely a different story.

You are also completely ignoring the damage that marijuana does to lung function and other significant health implications. For some reason marijuana has developed this reputation for being a healthy way to self medicate. It’s just not founded in facts.

I’m not saying the use of opioids isn’t a problem. Our doctors are being much more thoughtful about going to them. But every one of them will tell you that if opioids are determined to be a bad fit for a patient, then the next best option for pain relief is the maximum allowable dose of ibuprofen, not marijuana.

Marijuana is medically prescribed for only specific types of pain management. Eye pressure caused by glaucoma, an example.

If you throw out your back and you expect marijuana to help, you’re an uneducated idiot. Doctors do not get kickbacks from prescribing opioids, and big pharma makes next to nothing on opioids - they’re all generics, there are no patents protecting high prices.

I love how these notions get legs and everybody rolls with it without questioning or asking someone who knows.

You’ve been had, mooby.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182651]Marijuana is not as effective at relieving pain. There have been countless studies on this. If you ask NFL players, who are about as physically tough a group as you can find, the responses you get are not representative of the broader population. Taking the edge off may be all a player requires, because he’s tough as nails. A 60 year old woman recovering from a hip replacement is entirely a different story.

You are also completely ignoring the damage that marijuana does to lung function and other significant health implications. For some reason marijuana has developed this reputation for being a healthy way to self medicate. It’s just not founded in facts.

I’m not saying the use of opioids isn’t a problem. Our doctors are being much more thoughtful about going to them. But every one of them will tell you that if opioids are determined to be a bad fit for a patient, then the next best option for pain relief is the maximum allowable dose of ibuprofen, not marijuana.

Marijuana is medically prescribed for only specific types of pain management. Eye pressure caused by glaucoma, an example.

If you throw out your back and you expect marijuana to help, you’re an uneducated idiot. Doctors do not get kickbacks from prescribing opioids, and big pharma makes next to nothing on opioids - they’re all generics, there are no patents protecting high prices.

I love how these notions get legs and everybody rolls with it without questioning or asking someone who knows.

You’ve been had, mooby.[/quote]

Not as effective as opoids? I'll concede that. Not as addictive? I'll definitely take that argument. And my knowledge as to what marijuana helps is limited to the aforementioned articles, so I'm not gonna argue it solves back pain either. If it did, I'd have been blazin' daily when I pulled a ligament a couple years ago. I treated that with good ol' fashioned chiropractics instead.

Just please don't act like there aren't doctors out there throwing out fraudulent prescriptions left and right for no other reason than to make some extra money. Pill farms are fairly common in Florida, and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't elsewhere too. Where else are the street dealers gonna get their supply?

Also idk where this argument is going. I didn't even take the percocets when I got my wisdoms pulled, because idw fuck with that shit. My sole point is that America's heroin epidemic starts with the opoid epidemic. I'm not gonna debate the effectiveness of marijuana vs. opoids for pain relief, it's something I know very little about. But sitting there acting like marijuana really has very few beneficial aids makes you look biased Schneed, especially in light of the fact you work in the health industry.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Chico23231;1182560]I appreciate the input and didn’t know. It’s just always been on my mind since adoption of the healthcare law and the opioid deaths kicked into overdrive right at the same time.[/quote]

BS.you just didn't pay attention to it.

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Schneed10;1182642]It also rains every time I put my umbrella up, maybe I should stop doing that.[/quote]

i laughed for real at this

Re: Tax bill
 

[quote=Giantone;1182742]BS.you just didn't pay attention to it.[/quote]

unfortunately the way my brain work and what I do, im always asking why....and yes Ive followed opioid epidemic, ive been commenting on it here for sometime. But the increase in use and spike in deaths are facts.

I think its natural to look at a major policy change as a reason for the spike, I don't that's crazy from someone who is not in the industry.

Or we can shrug our shoulders & bury our head in the sand...or as I would call it, the Obama Administration's plan on dealing with the Opioid epidemic