Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

All I know is Walter was one of my all time favorites. The guy played with the worst OL line for years and still rushed for thousands of yards, punished defenses finishing runs. Obviously that took it's toll. Sad story.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

I think this story is sad, but not as horrible as people hype it up to be. Life is tough folks. People have affairs, broken marriages, abuse drugs and go through some deep lows. The society we live in today has some major issues and Payton isn't the first to go through them. If anything, we should use this story as lesson that money and success isn't going to solve anything.

I think the sad part is the affect of injuries and continuous pounding. The NFL hasn't done a great job helping their vets, in general. So whenever the "No Fun League" actually has initiatives to prevent these kinds of occurrences (ex.penalties and fines for hits) I support it. For those that claim the game is changing and it won't be what it once was, I agree. We will have less stories of players in perpetual pain abusing drugs....

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

Not to derail this thread, but even with an 18 game season the plan is for the number of games to remain the same. 2 preseason and 18 regular, as opposed to the current 4 preseason and 18 regular. So this repeated argument at least one of you here has about adding two games doesn't really fly

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[quote=hooskins;842174][B]I think this story is sad, but not as horrible as people hype it up to be.[/B] Life is tough folks. People have affairs, broken marriages, abuse drugs and go through some deep lows. The society we live in today has some major issues and Payton isn't the first to go through them. If anything, we should use this story as lesson that money and success isn't going to solve anything.

I think the sad part is the affect of injuries and continuous pounding. The NFL hasn't done a great job helping their vets, in general. So whenever the "No Fun League" actually has initiatives to prevent these kinds of occurrences (ex.penalties and fines for hits) I support it. For those that claim the game is changing and it won't be what it once was, I agree. We will have less stories of players in perpetual pain abusing drugs....[/quote]

It's just surprising. It's like if we find out in 10 years that Peyton Manning had these kinds of problems.

WP had a pretty clean image prior to this news.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[quote=freddyg12;842151]true dat, remember when Jim Brown basically called Franco Harris a pussy for runnin out of bounds? He said he admired Payton though.

plus he was classy all the way, played on sucky teams in the 70s & waited to be a part of a super bowl. Even gave up the spotlight in the backfield to the Fridge (speakin of former players w/problems).

I don't ever remember him promoting himself, his image just happened to be "squeaky clean" by the way he carried himself. More than anything to me, this shows how much the media coverage (which we consume like mad) has changed athletes' public image & privacy.[/quote]

If Jim Brown thought Franco was a puss for running out of bounds i wonder what he thought about all of Emmitt Smiths fetile position plays along with running out of bounds... hmmmm.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

He was a great RB. Too bad he couldn't have enjoyed it more. RIP Walter.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;842174]I think this story is sad, but not as horrible as people hype it up to be. Life is tough folks. People have affairs, broken marriages, abuse drugs and go through some deep lows. The society we live in today has some major issues and Payton isn't the first to go through them. If anything, we should use this story as lesson that money and success isn't going to solve anything.

I think the sad part is the affect of injuries and continuous pounding. The NFL hasn't done a great job helping their vets, in general[B]. So whenever the "No Fun League" actually has initiatives to prevent these kinds of occurrences (ex.penalties and fines for hits) I support it. For those that claim the game is changing and it won't be what it once was, I agree. We will have less stories of players in perpetual pain abusing drugs....[/[/B]QUOTE]

In this instance I think Walter just had an addiction. He could've done many other things to off set the pounding he took. He choose to play balls to the ball. I admire him for it, but let's not go trying to change a gladiator sport and try and micro manage it to death.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[quote=SmootSmack;842179]Not to derail this thread, but even with an 18 game season the plan is for the number of games to remain the same. 2 preseason and 18 regular, as opposed to the current 4 preseason and 18 regular. So this repeated argument at least one of you here has about adding two games doesn't really fly[/quote]


Then maybe you should look at it as minutes played in a season or potential minutes played because you really don't know when they will be subbed and how long offense/defense will be on the field.

[B]Current minutes played by a starter baring injury and if they played every down. [/B]

16 x 60 = 960 regular season potential minutes
4 x 30 = 120 pre season potential minutes (this is assuming they play just half the game in pre-season, it is probable less then that)

Current total potential minutes played 1080

[B]18 game season [/B]

18x 60 = 1080 regular season potential minutes
2 x 30 = 60 pre-season potential minutes (they actual may play more then a half in this format since they only have 2 games to beef up)

18 game schedule total potential minutes played by a starter 1140

That gives you a delta of 60 potential more minutes (a whole game) a starter would be playing (potential for injury) in the 18 game season.


If you are full time player in the NFL you will definitely see more playing time in the 18 game format then you would in the 16 game format.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[quote=SmootSmack;842179]Not to derail this thread, but even with an 18 game season the plan is for the number of games to remain the same. 2 preseason and 18 regular, as opposed to the current 4 preseason and 18 regular. So this repeated argument at least one of you here has about adding two games doesn't really fly[/quote]

Smoot, no way! this is my biggest pet peeve w/the argument for 18 games. We all know that starters & often used reserves don't play many downs in the preseason to begin with. The argument that 2 preseason games = 2 regular season games in terms of chance for injury is just bunk. It surely isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Coaches will play guys in the preseason as much as they need to, thus some play very little. If anything, taking 2 preseason games away will just lead to more scrimmages, unless the cba prohibits that. 4 preseason games is more for the coaches & guys trying to make the team. The avg., established player, i.e. the vets, [I]maybe[/I] plays 4 full quarters during the entire 4 game preseason.

Not to mention, the chance of injury is greater when playing an entire game as fatigue, soreness, etc. factors in. The vast majority of guys playing most downs in the regular season are virtually never playing a full preseason game.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

The game does need more safety built in. Players used to get concussions and go right back in. Not sure how that should be viewed as ok, especially with what we know now about the long term impact of head trauma. Team doctors used to hand out pain killers like candy, probably still do to an extent. You can't tell me that's a smart way of handling things either, and who knows how many addictions started that way.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[quote=SmootSmack;842179]Not to derail this thread, but even with an 18 game season the plan is for the number of games to remain the same. 2 preseason and 18 regular, as opposed to the current 4 preseason and 18 regular. So this repeated argument at least one of you here has about adding two games doesn't really fly[/quote]

In 4 pre season games the starters really only play in two of them. The 3rd game and the 2nd. With an 18 game season the starters are going to put more strain on their bodies, and that's why none of them were buying the 18 game season.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[quote=mredskins;842193]Then maybe you should look at it as minutes played in a season or potential minutes played because you really don't know when they will be subbed and how long offense/defense will be on the field.

[B]Current minutes played by a starter baring injury and if they played every down. [/B]

16 x 60 = 960 regular season potential minutes
4 x 30 = 120 pre season potential minutes (this is assuming they play just half the game in pre-season, it is probable less then that)

Current total potential minutes played 1080

[B]18 game season [/B]

18x 60 = 1080 regular season potential minutes
2 x 30 = 60 pre-season potential minutes (they actual may play more then a half in this format since they only have 2 games to beef up)

18 game schedule total potential minutes played by a starter 1140

That gives you a delta of 60 potential more minutes (a whole game) a starter would be playing (potential for injury) in the 18 game season.


If you are full time player in the NFL you will definitely see more playing time in the 18 game format then you would in the 16 game format.[/quote]

Very well put!

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

[quote=freddyg12;842195]smoot, no way! This is my biggest pet peeve w/the argument for 18 games. We all know that starters & often used reserves don't play many downs in the preseason to begin with. The argument that 2 preseason games = 2 regular season games in terms of chance for injury is just bunk. It surely isn't an apples to apples comparison.

Coaches will play guys in the preseason as much as they need to, thus some play very little. If anything, taking 2 preseason games away will just lead to more scrimmages, unless the cba prohibits that. 4 preseason games is more for the coaches & guys trying to make the team. The avg., established player, i.e. The vets, [i]maybe[/i] plays 4 full quarters during the entire 4 game preseason.

Not to mention, the chance of injury is greater when playing an entire game as fatigue, soreness, etc. Factors in. The vast majority of guys playing most downs in the regular season are virtually never playing a full preseason game.[/quote]

x2.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

skinsfan69, I can't disagree with you more. There is a reason we don't have "gladiator" events and sports. They are brutal and take a toll on players' health. The reason the regulations were not in place, was because people and the league were not aware of adverse health impacts.

If research shows playing football in a particular way could impact the health of players, change the game. I love the violent aspect of the game, but my love for the game isn't greater than my concern for the adverse impact on my fellow people. Honestly, I would go so far as saying it is selfish to value a game so much that you(the collective you, not skinsfan69) would ignore or minimize the health impacts on the players.

Re: Walter Payton Used Drugs/Suicidal
 

As I said, I don't want to derail this thread into talk about an 18 game season. I mean WP was in the league when they expanded from 14 games to 16 games, but I don't think that caused his problems.

What I think I'll remember as much as anything is that he ended his career against the Redskins. I think it was a 4th down run and he didn't get the first and then next thing you know that's it. His career is done