Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

How many [B]GREAT GREAT[/B] teams did Brady have to beat in his very own Conference?
I'm talking teams that will be talked about 20 years from now?

1? Colts/Manning
Anymore?

How many teams did Joe Montana have to beat during his tenure in San Fran?
3 time SB winners in Redskins
Legendary Ditka Bears and that Defense and the legendary 85' Bears
Parcells Giants and X2 time SB winners with Simms,LT,Banks,etc.

Give me Joe Montana! :)

Brady is a Great QB
Montana is the greatest QB I ever saw! Period!

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

[quote=Chico23231;743454]Peyton is still better. He just is[/quote]

I would agree.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

Yeah I'd take Peyton over Brady. I've always viewed Brady as a really good system QB. I view Peyton as a really good QB who created his own system. In fact at this point I'd take Brees over Brady. Brees is a less physically talented Manning. He's got all the mental and emotional skills that Manning has but with a little less on the physical side. Obviously the mental and emotional skills are pretty damn important because Brees is pretty awesome.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

Hard to say who's the best, but we are sure lucky to have been able to say we saw Brady and Manning play

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

Great post guys, I always love the "Best QB ever " debates..
I think it's hard to name the greatest but Brady is no doubt up there with the likes of Elway, Marino, Montana , Manning Etc..

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

If we are talking just Brady/Manning - I think that is going to be one debated for a looooongggg time. Would Brady have succeeded in the Colts offense? I am thinking yes. What would Belicheck have done with Manning?

I think Manning is the better QB of the two [I]BUT[/I], if I was starting a team, I think I would take Brady. Certainly the Brady of 2 to 3 years ago.

Manning is such a good QB that, like Marino before him, the offense tends to get modelled around him. It's not that he is a "Me First" guy, it's just that he's so good that he can't help but be the team's focus. Particularly now in the salary cap era, other parts of the team suffer a little. When you play Indi, if you "solve" Peyton, you win. While true to a certain degree and more so recently, "solving" Brady didn't necessarily get you a win (Matt Cassell anyone?). For the last 5 years or so, teams didn't so much play "the Colts" as much as they played Peyton (figuratively speaking of course).

But as Smoot said, we're just lucky to see them both play.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

[quote=Mattyk;743446]So you're going to disregard all of his other stats and accomplishments because of turnovers?

Favre's INT% isn't that crazy. 3.3%.

Here are some others:

Marino: 3.0
Elway: 3.1
P. Manning: 2.7[/quote]

Yeah but he always seems to throw one at the worst possible time, so for that reason I don't put him there with the all time greats.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

Also, something from a more historic perspective, and based on GTripp's comments about Brady as a system QB -

In some respects there seems to be a progression of the "Really Good/Great QB Meets Innovative System" behind the much of the Best Ever debate.

Luckman/T-Formation; Otto Graham/Paul Brown's Innovations; Montana/West Coast Offense; Brady/Spread Offense.

These QB's seem to follow naturally from the former and become innovator's in their own right. Their careers represent the game's evolution in microcosm. In each case, the Coach (Halas, Brown, Walsh, Belichick) was almost as famous as the QB.

On the other hand, there are some QB's who stood outside of any coach or recognziable "system": Baugh, Unitas, Marino, Manning.

Would Luckman, Graham, Montana or Brady be as successful outside their particular system? Would Baugh, Unitas, Marino or Manning be as successful if they were forced to tailor their playing to a particular system (Johnny "Field General" U playing for Paul "I call the plays" Brown? I don't think so).

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

[quote=Mattyk;743446]So you're going to disregard all of his other stats and accomplishments because of turnovers?

Favre's INT% isn't that crazy. 3.3%.

Here are some others:

Marino: 3.0
Elway: 3.1
P. Manning: 2.7[/quote]

Favre is in the top 10 of all time imo, Maybe top 5.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

I'd say his team stole the other teams OF & DF signs and got caught that helps out alot, yes he has great talent but could he have won without stealing signs that's the question I need to have answered.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

I guess I may have exaggerated a bit when saying that the Colts are in a decline (so no need to get your panties in a bunch). But, they are not as dominant as they were before...HOWEVER, I don't think any team is right now. It seems that teams are on and off from week to week, and no team is looking consistently dominant..

I do know that the Colts had offensive line issues in the offseason, and their defense is not playing well. Now, a poor defense has never affected the Colts, and Manning is elite enough to overcome any offensive line deficiencies. I do think the Texans will give the Colts a run for their money though.

It's hard to put Manning above Brady and vice versa though.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;743532]I'd say his team stole the other teams OF & DF signs and got caught that helps out alot, yes he has great talent but could he have won without stealing signs that's the question I need to have answered.[/quote]

I think the 18-1 season after it was exposed would have put to rest any questions about whether they can win without extra film.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;743389]You have to define greatest -- if it is terms of winning, then it's Brady. If it's in terms of being a quarterback, I think the edge goes to either Manning or Marino. Last year, with the number 32 run game, Peyton took the Colts to the SB while posting another season of off-the-chart numbers.
I think that last season solidified why Manning is better than Brady just in terms of great quarterback play.[/quote]

Marino? I Have so many over top of him just because they could lead their team to the big dance and won. All those stats don't mean shit without a ring when talking QB's.

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

Joe Montana - Give me Joe when the game's on the line and the seconds are ticking away on the clock!

Re: When it's all been said and done.
 

I really think Super Bowls are so overrated when it comes to evaluating QBs. We never hold other positions to that same standard. There are so many factors that go into winning Super Bowls, and QBs get far too much credit for winning them.

Marino was definitely one of the top QBs ever, and as far as pure passers go he might be tops.