Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528852]True Paintrain but the debate is still out if that has to do more with Zorns playcall, Campbells ability or Zorns confidence in Campbell.

I also expect to see more creativity in the offensive scheme and we should in 09'. We still have to keep in mind that Zorn played his rookie year last year.

Point is we went 6-2 with Zorn and a healthy team. We went 8-8 with Zorn and a unhealthy team and not much depth. I certainly agree Zorn needs to step up his playcall and adaptability, and of course some of the blame is his. But not all of it. As was stated earlier.

But its way to early to say that Zorn lacks the ability. IMO[/quote]

Agreed, we don't know all the factors and limitations at play. It is just kind of frustrating to see other teams facing some of the same challenges (new offense, new coaches, shaky OL) doing the necessary things to get the ball into the end zone and we stubbornly stuck to what wasn't really working anymore.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Ruhskins;528853]How 'bout we get the regular offensive plays down before we start doing trick plays? I don't know why people are making such a fuss about this.[/quote]

Exactly. Plus, as dmek said, why tip anyone off that we may use it? I'm sure Randle El could run some wildcat for us, but why announce it?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=GMScud;528862]Exactly. Plus, as dmek said, why tip anyone off that we may use it? I'm sure Randle El could run some wildcat for us, [B]but why announce it?[/B][/quote]

What, you didn't catch Tony Sparano's press conference last offseason telling the league that they were going to run the wildcat? LOL.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528843]OK. What ever you say. Tell that to Samuels, Jansen, Geisinger,Thomas and Portis to name a few. Not getting into the Zorn thing again. You have your opinion I have mine. If you believe injuries and fatigue didnt play into our late season losses then your looking at things narrowly and putting the blame on Zorn completly. I dont make excuses for Zorn. I really doubt it took 8 games for the NFL to figure out our "Hybrid" vanilla-run first offense. And Zorns statement means we probably will be using the wildcat. IMO[/quote]

I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Paintrain;528859]Agreed, we don't know all the factors and limitations at play. It is just kind of frustrating to see other teams facing some of the same challenges ([B]new offense, new coaches, shaky OL[/B]) doing the necessary things to get the ball into the end zone and we stubbornly stuck to what wasn't really working anymore.[/quote]

I hear ya Paintrain, But unfortunatly we faced all three challenges. And I agree it is definatly frustating.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528864]I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. [B]Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse[/B] and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.[/quote]

What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/clinton_portis_and_the_quest_f.html]Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog[/url]

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528866]What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/clinton_portis_and_the_quest_f.html]Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog[/url][/quote]

Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

I understand some of your points DirtyLandry and also think Zorn got to be a little to conservative. Maybe by neccessity, I don't know. But Portis pretty much says whatever is to his benefit.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528868]Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.[/quote]

Hey Im all for a 2 Back system. If what your saying about Portis is true then the article reveals a double standard. It would imply he only wants to carry the ball often for his own selfish reasons and not for the teams success. I dont believe that to be the case. But if you believe that then that means you agree with Riggins. I don't.

Anyway this is getting way off subject. Getting back to where we started. You dont like Zorns ability and said he has shown none. I disagree.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528871]Hey Im all for a 2 Back system. If what your saying about Portis is trus then the article reveals a double standard. It would imply he only wants to carry the ball often for his own selfish reasons and not for the teams success. I dont believe that to be the case. But if you believe that then that means you agree with Riggins. I don't.

Anyway this is getting way off subject. Getting back to where we started. You dont like Zorns ability and said he has shown none. I disagree.[/quote]

We'll agree to disagree. On a side note, Zorn learned from the school of "Chuck Knox". Often referred to "Ground Chuck" for his conservative ground rushing attack.

I will give Zorn another year to prove he can change, I just have my doubts becuase he showed us nothing different in an entire season. For all of us, I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528872]We'll agree to disagree. On a side note, Zorn learned from the school of "Chuck Knox". Often referred to "Ground Chuck" for his conservative ground rushing attack.

I will give Zorn another year to prove he can change, I just have my doubts becuase he showed us nothing different in an entire season. For all of us, I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

I dont blame you for your doubts brother. And I may be overly optomistic. I just think there are to many variables to pin the blame on any one specific player/coach. I hope your wrong too. But I may be wrong and for all of us I hope not. I think we agree to give Zorn a 2nd year and I think thats a logical way to see it. Hopefully this time next year we will both be happy with the Skins and have a lot more to agree on. see ya on the next thread.:boxing:

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

Ok, but i ask this...say we did run the wildcat, and it works but then what happens when teams are able to deffend us aganist the wildcat, and we are forced to use our orginal offense which is right now still not completely grasped yet by our players?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

Wildcat = gimmick or fad (offense of the week).

Randel El on a reverse pass or double pass is fine. We need to concentrate on executing the WCO. With a healthy OL we should be able to return to the 6-2 form from early in the season.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528868]Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.[/quote]How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;528953]How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?[/quote]
:laughing2 Damn Sammy! Portis is also the one who whines about being taken out of a game so they can run plays Betts has practiced all week because Portis didn't practice and apparently didn't know the plays. Baltimore.