Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=jamf;1056124]I would like to take the wait and see approach with this team but I am getting increasingly more concerned that no one has any idea of what they are doing at Redskins park.
The hires scream good ole boy network to me.

I get the feeling Gruden was Bruces guy from day one and all the other interviews were a formality. Jay didn't have the stones to fire Haslett because Haslett hired him in the arena league and the Wes Wilson hire kills me, another coaches son. basically a guy who got a job in the NFL when his dad was HC of Dallas and lets not forget, he comes from dallas!

This looks like the "good ole boy network" at it's finest.

Allen has a history with Jon G at Oakland and Tampa, it's clear he is trying to recapture that with the latest Gruden. Unfortunately it feels like he hired a bunch of drinking buddies and said "hey let's see if we can go win some games".

Bruce Allen hired his friends and I feel his friends aren't the best coaching options available. I am trying so hard to be optimistic but I fearful we are doomed for another 4 years of heart ache.

I just can't trust a guy with Vinny Cerrato eyes.[/quote]

This stuff happens everywhere

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/20/ken-whisenhunt-hires-another-one-of-his-old-assistants/]Ken Whisenhunt hires another one of his old assistants | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/18/ron-prince-joins-lions-staff-as-assistant-head-coach/]Ron Prince joins Lions’ staff as assistant head coach | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/17/titans-name-jason-michael-offensive-coordinator/]Titans tab Jason Michael as offensive coordinator | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/01/17/lions-add-teryl-austin-as-defensive-coordinator/]Lions add Teryl Austin as defensive coordinator | ProFootballTalk[/url]

Besides, Gruden was a hot candidate, he was going to get a HC job somewhere if he didn't land here.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Question, since these coaches are coming back ILB & WR's does that mean they never got along with MS or this is normal leave a team and then come back.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1056563]Question, since these coaches are coming back ILB & WR's does that mean they never got along with MS or this is normal leave a team and then come back.[/quote]

Here's what happened:

Ike Hilliard: "I'm the best coach in the game. When you try me with a sorry coach like Kyle, that's the result you going to get."

Erin Andrews: "That was awesome."

Kyle Shanahan: "Waaaah! Daddy, he hurt my feelings!"

Mike Shanahan: "Ike, you are in timeout. Go to Buffalo and don't come back for a year."

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;1056564]Here's what happened:

Ike Hilliard: "I'm the best coach in the game. When you try me with a sorry coach like Kyle, that's the result you going to get."

Erin Andrews: "That was awesome."

Kyle Shanahan: "Waaaah! Daddy, he hurt my feelings!"

Mike Shanahan: "Ike, you are in timeout. Go to Buffalo and don't come back for a year."[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Having Haslett on this staff as DC kills this hire for me. I think it's doomed from the get go. Even so, we still should win more games than we did last year. Hard to tell. Why can't the Redskins ever get it right? It's sad because I really like Jay Gruden and many of the other changes.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1056511]Most 1st time coaches don't get more than 3 guaranteed years[/quote]

Right but why is that meaningful? With Snyder's local revenue streams I'm sure he sees the Gruden deal as budget friendly. Even if the commitment goes out longer, it's still way less than he was paying Shanahan on an annual basis.

I guess I look at it this way. Going out an extra two years at a salary basically at the league median can only be described as a mediocre commitment. If Snyder cans Gruden after year 3, he'd eat barely more than he has to pay Shanahan for this single season.

It's about the total $ commitment much more than it is the length.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1056577]Having Haslett on this staff as DC kills this hire for me. I think it's doomed from the get go. Even so, we still should win more games than we did last year. Hard to tell. Why can't the Redskins ever get it right? It's sad because I really like Jay Gruden and many of the other changes.[/quote]

I really understand the dislike for Haslett, and the angst/frustration at keeping him, but I think it's really important to understand that the group that is together has worked well together in the past. I think that is an important part of setting up a 1st time HC to win, not fail. I think it would be different if we had hired Bevel or Whisenhunt and kept Haslett, but we didn't. Gruden has worked and won with Haslett before. Bottomline, I just think it's too early to say they didn't get it right, or that they did.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1056528]Ok, Robert Quinn was the wrong comparison.
The problem with you Schneed is you can't make a comment to another member without being disrespectful. At the end of the day Orakpo is not Elite. He does not deserve a Elite paying contract. The team was 3-13 and his impact didn't win us any more games than last year, regardless of how much you try to pacify him. It shouldn't matter who is around him, his job is to produce. IMO he doesn't have secondary rush moves than a bull rush. I think he can grow with the new coaching staff. But, he needs to do a mutually beneficial contract.[/quote]

Sorry if I offended, but we get our fair share of drivel on this board (still much less than other boards). You largely know your stuff but whenever someone puts out an inaccuracy the board should correct it, or we can go the way of ExtremeSkins pretty quick.

I agree Orakpo is not in the very top echelon. But is $10M a year an elite salary in 2014? Clay Matthews got that much but that was several years ago. Orakpo's a half step below Clay, but inflation's a bitch. Combine that fact with our dire need at that position (we'd be F'd without Orakpo in our front 7), and I think you have to pony up the $10 or $11M and feel fine about it.

That said I hope he takes $8 or $9M.

Edit: One more thing. Laying the 3-13 record at Orakpo's feet is pretty crazy. Pass rushers and the secondary go hand in hand, they make each other look better. Without a secondary the QB gets the ball out too fast for a pass rusher to make a huge impact. And without a pass rusher a good secondary can't cover any WR for 5 seconds. He had 10 sacks despite QBs being able to shred the secondary pretty consistently. The 3-13 record is not on him at all, it's a team sport and you need everyone pulling their weight. A weak link in the chain means the whole thing breaks. But that doesn't mean you point the finger at the one link that held up.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/redskins-orakpo-ranked-3rd-best-available-free-agent]Redskins' Orakpo ranked 3rd-best available free agent | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url]

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;1056563]Question, since these coaches are coming back ILB & WR's does that mean they never got along with MS or this is normal leave a team and then come back.[/quote]

It could mean BA thought they had a good thing going until Shanny F'd it up. More likely though it's simply coincidental, because Jay had Hilliard in Tampa, and the familiarity is there.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1056577]Having Haslett on this staff as DC kills this hire for me. I think it's doomed from the get go. Even so, we still should win more games than we did last year. Hard to tell. Why can't the Redskins ever get it right? It's sad because I really like Jay Gruden and many of the other changes.[/quote]


I imagine and hope the leash will be a short one with Has. If the defense starts poor he should be fired midseason. And I dont get not letting the Jets interview him.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1056581][url=http://www.csnwashington.com/football-washington-redskins/talk/redskins-orakpo-ranked-3rd-best-available-free-agent]Redskins' Orakpo ranked 3rd-best available free agent | Comcast SportsNet Washington[/url][/quote]

2 thoughts:

1) I don't think the Redskins get any home town discounts this year. Last 2 years with the salary cap penalty, players seemed to give them a bit of a pass. This year everyone knows the Skins have cap room, and if they go too cheap they will lose out.

2) It amazes me, how fickle fans are. Without going back in time, we still hear about Ryan Clark and others who the Skins let go and went after a named guy instead of focusing on homegrown talent. Now we have Orakpo, a homegrown, if not elite, certainly top quality, player in our defense, and there is a segment of fans that want to get rid of him.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1056583]I imagine and hope the leash will be a short one with Has. If the defense starts poor he should be fired midseason. And I dont get not letting the Jets interview him.[/quote]

I don't think that would be prudent. He's going to be given a serious talent influx and it will take time for him to bring it together. There will be a little time needed for the unit to jell and learn to communicate, especially in the secondary where there will be major turnover.

That said, yeah there's no way we should start as poor as we did this year. If he gets that talent and doesn't at least put up a middling performance in the beginning then something is wrong. But I don't think that will happen, he's a solid defensive mind.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1056585]
2) It amazes me, how fickle fans are. Without going back in time, we still hear about Ryan Clark and others who the Skins let go and went after a named guy instead of focusing on homegrown talent. Now we have Orakpo, a homegrown, if not elite, certainly top quality, player in our defense, and there is a segment of fans that want to get rid of him.[/quote]

That segment is the same one that seems to think impact pass rushers do grow on trees.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1056590]That segment is the same one that seems to think impact pass rushers do grow on trees.[/quote]Or that anything you do matters if you don't have a strong pass rush.

You can go into a season with Rob Jackson, Brandon Jenkins, and Darryl Tapp splitting time at OLB...but you've punted on the year.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1056585]2 thoughts:


2) It amazes me, how fickle fans are. Without going back in time, we still hear about Ryan Clark and others who the Skins let go and went after a named guy instead of focusing on homegrown talent. Now we have Orakpo, a homegrown, if not elite, certainly top quality, player in our defense, and there is a segment of fans that want to get rid of him.[/quote]

I hear ya! It's like we're amongst a bunch of cyber Vinnys, lol!

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Sign RAK

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1056589]I don't think that would be prudent. He's going to be given a serious talent influx and it will take time for him to bring it together. There will be a little time needed for the unit to jell and learn to communicate, especially in the secondary where there will be major turnover.

[B]That said, yeah there's no way we should start as poor as we did this year[/B]. If he gets that talent and doesn't at least put up a middling performance in the beginning then something is wrong. But I don't think that will happen, he's a solid defensive mind.[/quote]

Exactly why you fire 8-10 weeks into the season. More than enough time to see where we are headed. If we come out and are bottom quarter of the league in defense walking paper are in order, we knows how it ends. Haz needs to show improvement pretty quickly, excuse making time is over.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Hard to believe there's any excitement for free agency from people who don't think Orakpo is worth the money he's going to get.

Guys who are better players than Orakpo never get to the market. Orakpo is only this close to the market because the guy in charge of the organization the last four years had a streak of moron in him. Given that about half the board thinks that Orakpo isn't worth the money, but would totally be okay with a large contract for Aqib Talib or Jairus Byrd, I'd call that an inconsistent standard.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1056602]Hard to believe there's any excitement for free agency from people who don't think Orakpo is worth the money he's going to get.

Guys who are better players than Orakpo never get to the market. Orakpo is only this close to the market because the guy in charge of the organization the last four years had a streak of moron in him. Given that about half the board thinks that Orakpo isn't worth the money, but would totally be okay with a large contract for Aqib Talib or Jairus Byrd, I'd call that an inconsistent standard.[/quote]

Seems like people tend to undervalue our own players and overvalue players from other teams. If Rak was a free agent from another team I'd guess most would be falling all over themselves saying we need to sign him.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1056602]Hard to believe there's any excitement for free agency from people who don't think Orakpo is worth the money he's going to get.

Guys who are better players than Orakpo never get to the market. Orakpo is only this close to the market because the guy in charge of the organization the last four years had a streak of moron in him. [B]Given that about half the board thinks that Orakpo isn't worth the money, but would totally be okay with a large contract for Aqib Talib or Jairus Byrd, I'd call that an inconsistent standard[/B].[/quote]

Spot on

Probably time to get a poll up about signing Orakpo.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1056603]Seems like people tend to undervalue our own players and overvalue players from other teams. If Rak was a free agent from another team I'd guess most would be falling all over themselves saying we need to sign him.[/quote]I agree.

The other issue for the Redskins defense is that Haslett has lost basically all the talent he has gotten here to free agency at some point or another. He's lost Rogers, Landry, Haynesworth to other teams in trades or free agency, which is a lot of pieces to replace, and to replace them, he was given Josh Wilson and Brandon Meriweather.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Keep Rak

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1056585]2 thoughts:

1) I don't think the Redskins get any home town discounts this year. Last 2 years with the salary cap penalty, players seemed to give them a bit of a pass. This year everyone knows the Skins have cap room, and if they go too cheap they will lose out.

2) [B]It amazes me, how fickle fans are. Without going back in time, we still hear about Ryan Clark and others who the Skins let go and went after a named guy instead of focusing on homegrown talent. Now we have Orakpo, a homegrown, if not elite, certainly top quality, player in our defense, and there is a segment of fans that want to get rid of him.[/B][/quote]

This.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1056603][B]Seems like people tend to undervalue our own players and overvalue players from other teams.[/B] If Rak was a free agent from another team I'd guess most would be falling all over themselves saying we need to sign him.[/quote]

Hasn't Snyder and the people he's had run his team done this?

I think the fans with half a football IQ want him to stay. I don't think anyone wants him ran out of town. However the price has to be right. One thing that seems to stand out about Rak is he always seems to have big games against bums. Yet against top competition he's nowhere to be found. Can't pay him 11-12 million a year.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1056602]Hard to believe there's any excitement for free agency from people who don't think Orakpo is worth the money he's going to get.

Guys who are better players than Orakpo never get to the market. Orakpo is only this close to the market because the guy in charge of the organization the last four years had a streak of moron in him. Given that about half the board thinks that Orakpo isn't worth the money, but would totally be okay with a large contract for Aqib Talib or Jairus Byrd, I'd call that an inconsistent standard.[/quote]

What kind of contract do you think Rak deserves?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1056614]what kind of contract do you think rak deserves?[/quote]5/$60

[quote=gtripp0012;1056615]5/$60[/quote]

5/50

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1056615]5/$60[/quote]

Well obviously all 60 million would not be guaranteed. In realty he's probably looking at a 3 year deal. But even 36 million over that time period is too much. A lot of coin for someone that barely has any sacks against NFC East competition. I guess the market will determine his value.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1056615]5/$60[/quote]

Way to much for my liking. I'd let him walk at that price. I think we should re-sign him, but there is a point where he's not worth the contract. 12mil/year is beyond that point.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1056625]Way to much for my liking. I'd let him walk at that price. I think we should re-sign him, but there is a point where he's not worth the contract. 12mil/year is beyond that point.[/quote]To put it in perspective, 10 mil/year is 8% of a 128 million salary cap. 12 mil/year is 9%.

Also, Matthews' extension with Green Bay was for 6/69.

Basically, if 5/60 is too rich for your blood, you don't want Orakpo back. The difference between market value and slightly below market value isn't allowing you to add extra players.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1056625]Way to much for my liking. I'd let him walk at that price. I think we should re-sign him, but there is a point where he's not worth the contract. 12mil/year is beyond that point.[/quote]

Given the high amount of cap space we're going to have, how would you propose using that space to make the team better than it would be in giving Orakpo 5/60M?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Letting Orakpo walk would be stupid. While he's not a Hall of Fame pass rusher, he dictates blocking schemes, commands extra attention and can be disruptive in the passing game. 5 yrs, $60 mil sounds about right. Maybe slightly less but if you think it's going to be 5/$50 then you're setting yourself up to be sorely disappointed.

There are way too many fans around here that think there's an elite player tree that is about to just start blooming pass rushers in March and we would have one for the choosing.

Rak is one of the 3-5 players on our roster that could walk right into a championship level roster and be an immediate starter. We need more of those types of players, not less of them. Pay the man.

BTW how did the Jay Gruden thread become the all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;1056641]BTW how did the Jay Gruden thread become the all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread?[/quote]Fitting, no?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1056580]
...One more thing. Laying the 3-13 record at Orakpo's feet is pretty crazy. Pass rushers and the secondary go hand in hand, they make each other look better. Without a secondary the QB gets the ball out too fast for a pass rusher to make a huge impact. And without a pass rusher a good secondary can't cover any WR for 5 seconds. He had 10 sacks despite QBs being able to shred the secondary pretty consistently. The 3-13 record is not on him at all, it's a team sport and you need everyone pulling their weight. A weak link in the chain means the whole thing breaks. But that doesn't mean you point the finger at the one link that held up.[/quote]

Thanks Schneed,

I don't believe that we need to get rid of Orakpo. I am disappointed in his performance on the last few years. I also feel that we have many holes on this team and because we will not obtain first round talent in the draft this year, the Redskins have to make this money stretch. We will have to take some risk to get results. The defense, offense and special teams all deserve the record we got in 2013.

I'm not going to cry about Haslett still being here, it is what it is. If he can't prove his worth in 2014 fire him. They should not extend his contract right now.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Paintrain;1056641]Letting Orakpo walk would be stupid. While he's not a Hall of Fame pass rusher, he dictates blocking schemes, commands extra attention and can be disruptive in the passing game. 5 yrs, $60 mil sounds about right. Maybe slightly less but if you think it's going to be 5/$50 then you're setting yourself up to be sorely disappointed.

There are way too many fans around here that think there's an elite player tree that is about to just start blooming pass rushers in March and we would have one for the choosing.

[B]Rak is one of the 3-5 players on our roster that could walk right into a championship level roster and be an immediate starter. We need more of those types of players, not less of them. Pay the man.[/B]

BTW how did the Jay Gruden thread become the all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread?[/quote]

Excellent argument.