Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1055937]If Jim Haslett is retained as DC, what are we being asked to believe? That the historically bad defense he led somehow wasn't his fault?

If it wasn't his fault, I'd like to know why they think it wasn't his fault.

Was he prevented by Shanahan from doing what he wanted to do?

Or did he have bad position coaches?

Or did he have bad players?

Or was it a combination of the above with some injuries thrown in to the mix?

Now, the Redskins have announced that two of Haslett's position coaches have been retained, Including Raheem Morris who was the coach of the worst unit on that historically bad defense. And, to my knowledge, the Redskins haven't interviewed any candidates for the DC position, so I suppose Haslett will be retained unless Dan Snyder absolutely forbids it.

If Haslett is retained, it would be nice if the Redskins brain trust would tell us why they think the Redskins defense will be better in 2014 under the same leadership that produced an unmitigated disaster of a defense in 2013. That should be interesting.

[B]The unresolved status of Jim Haslett is why I couldn't bring myself to whole-heartedly endorse the hiring of Jay Gruden. Getting the "old gang" back together might mean something to Bruce Allen and Jay Gruden but, as a fan, it means nothing to me. I just want the Redskins to win and I have good reason to be skeptical about Haslett being capable of helping us win.[/B][/quote]

I agree. My guess is that we will revisit this issue again this time next year, after Haslett has failed again and there are no more excuses for the "old gang."

Just hire Wade Phillips dammit.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1055939]Some things we know about Haslett: he wasn't allowed to hire his own defensive staff prior to now, he was sometimes overruled by Shanahan on play calling, we haven't had a lot to work with recently especially in the secondary, he's probably not the greatest DC in the world but he's far from the worst.

Can the D improve under Haslett going forward by having better assistants around, better chemistry amongst the staff, and most of all by upgrading the talent? I think so.[/quote]

I'm sure an improved offense will help the defense as well.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1055946]I'm sure an improved offense will help the defense as well.[/quote]

Definitely, and special teams too.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1055941]Is it official we are staying 3-4?[/quote]

No, but If they weren't going to run a base 3-4 I don't think they would have hired one coach for OLB's and another coach for ILB's.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1055939]Some things we know about Haslett: he wasn't allowed to hire his own defensive staff prior to now, he was sometimes overruled by Shanahan on play calling, we haven't had a lot to work with recently especially in the secondary, he's probably not the greatest DC in the world but he's far from the worst.

Can the D improve under Haslett going forward by having better assistants around, better chemistry amongst the staff, and most of all by upgrading the talent? I think so.[/quote]

Well, they've already got you buying it.

But don't forget that they weren't just bad on defense last year - they were historically, negative record-setting, horrible to watch bad.

OK, let's say they keep Haslett, which I believe they will. If we start out next season with the same kind of defensive ineptitude as we suffered through in 2013, I just hope that Dan Snyder will demand that Haslett be replaced by Game 5.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

I wonder if Jay would consider Terry Shea to be the QB coach for RG3. He help Robert coming out of college. Might be a good fit.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1055949]Well, they've already got you buying it.

But don't forget that they weren't just bad on defense last year - [B]they were historically, negative record-setting,[/B] horrible to watch bad.

OK, let's say they keep Haslett, which I believe they will. If we start out next season with the same kind of defensive ineptitude as we suffered through in 2013, I just hope that Dan Snyder will demand that Haslett be replaced by Game 5.[/quote]

I'm not buying anything, just saying there are some legit reasons that go beyond simply blaming Haslett for everything.

What sort of records did they set exactly?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

The notion that Haslett was bad isn't accurate or fair. The Redskins let up an insane amount of yards and points in the first three games of the year, which of course you can't let Haslett completely off the hook for. But the Eagles put up all that yardage partly because the Skins couldn't get out of their own way on offense, turning it over tons of times. And they started Rambo at safety, who clearly wasn't remotely ready. Bad decision by Haslett, but to be fair if they didn't have the cap penalty he would have had better talent to work with there.

Just like you can't let Haslett completely off the hook, you have to acknowledge the improvement over the last 13 games. After the first 3 we were last in the league in yards allowed. We finished 18th, despite having zero talent in the secondary.

So Haslett isn't worthless. Give him some $ invested in defensive talent and he can field a decent defense.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1055939]Some things we know about Haslett: he wasn't allowed to hire his own defensive staff prior to now, he was sometimes overruled by Shanahan on play calling, we haven't had a lot to work with recently especially in the secondary, he's probably not the greatest DC in the world but he's far from the worst.

Can the D improve under Haslett going forward by having better assistants around, better chemistry amongst the staff, and most of all by upgrading the talent? I think so.[/quote]

SO what was Haslett's excuse his prior experience before coming to the Skins. I mean, Mike overriding him on a few plays isn't going to cause the defense to be bad as it was. What we do know is Haslett doesn't like to run the 3-4 so why have him run a system he doesn't want to run? What we also know is Haslett has been a mediocre DC his entire career. Is that Mike's fault too?

This hiring people b/c they are friends is bullshit and pretty much why we stunk the past 4 years.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

That said I'd get Wade Phillips instead, he's better.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1055958]SO what was Haslett's excuse his prior experience before coming to the Skins. I mean, Mike overriding him on a few plays isn't going to cause the defense to be bad as it was. What we do know is Haslett doesn't like to run the 3-4 so why have him run a system he doesn't want to run? What we also know is Haslett has been a mediocre DC his entire career. Is that Mike's fault too?

This hiring people b/c they are friends is bullshit and pretty much why we stunk the past 4 years.[/quote]

Haslett doesn't like a 3-4?? He was the defensive coordinator of the Steelers for Cowher in the late 90s.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1055958]SO what was Haslett's excuse his prior experience before coming to the Skins. I mean, Mike overriding him on a few plays isn't going to cause the defense to be bad as it was. What we do know is Haslett doesn't like to run the 3-4 so why have him run a system he doesn't want to run? What we also know is Haslett has been a mediocre DC his entire career. Is that Mike's fault too?

[B]This hiring people b/c they are friends[/B] is bullshit and pretty much why we stunk the past 4 years.[/quote]

That happens everywhere in the NFL. I don't know why people act like this is a new concept.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Well, we hired the younger Phillips as TE coach.

[url=http://cowboysblog.dallasnews.com/2014/01/washington-redskins-hire-dallas-cowboys-te-coach-wes-phillips.html/]Washington Redskins hire Dallas Cowboys TE coach Wes Phillips | Dallas Morning News[/url]

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1055958]SO what was Haslett's excuse his prior experience before coming to the Skins. I mean, Mike overriding him on a few plays isn't going to cause the defense to be bad as it was. What we do know is Haslett doesn't like to run the 3-4 so why have him run a system he doesn't want to run? What we also know is Haslett has been a mediocre DC his entire career. Is that Mike's fault too?

This hiring people b/c they are friends is bullshit and pretty much why we stunk the past 4 years.[/quote]

96-00 he fielded some good defenses, the lowest they finished yardage wise was 13th, points 20th.

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/HaslJi0.htm]Jim Haslett Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

I think lack of talent has been the main factor in his time here.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Ruhskins;1055962]That happens everywhere in the NFL. I don't know why people act like this is a new concept.[/quote]

Well it's the Redskins, so of course everything they do is a complete anomaly.

The NFL is a tight community, so of course people work with those they are familiar and comfortable with, or come recommended by those they know. Isn't this pretty much how the world works anyway??

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

While haslett is a concern, I'm more focused on who steps into the leadership void of London on that side. Orakpo seems like the logical choice

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1055964]96-00 he fielded some good defenses, the lowest they finished yardage wise was 13th, points 20th.

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/HaslJi0.htm]Jim Haslett Record, Statistics, and Category Ranks - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

I think lack of talent has been the main factor in his time here.[/quote]

but if you compare that to gregg williams or wade phillips, his lifetime of coaching really isn't very good as far as defensive rankings or whatnot. even if you excuse his redskins tenure (which i don't, at least not completely), his track record before then wasn't good either. GW had a top D in 2010, wade in 2012. if you need to go back 14 years to find a year that's not terrible, i mean, come on.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1055956]I'm not buying anything, just saying there are some legit reasons that go beyond simply blaming Haslett for everything.

[B]What sort of records did they set exactly[/B][B]?[/B][/quote]

Here's one:

They gave up the most points ever in a season in the entire history of the franchise - 478

That ought to be enough right there.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1055980]Here's one:

They gave up the most points ever in a season in the entire history of the franchise - 478

That ought to be enough right there.[/quote]

Yeah that definitely sucks but as we know you can't blame all that on the D. The offense and special teams hung 'em out to dry quite often.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1055980]Here's one:

They gave up the most points ever in a season in the entire history of the franchise - 478

That ought to be enough right there.[/quote]

Poor thinking, bro. You know how many of those points were given up by our special teams alone?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1055966]Well it's the Redskins, so of course everything they do is a complete anomaly.

The NFL is a tight community, so of course people work with those they are familiar and comfortable with, or come recommended by those they know. Isn't this pretty much how the world works anyway??[/quote]

This does happen in every field, but often is seen as a mistake. If you're an executive of a company and a sales position becomes open, could you really justify bringing in your buddy to fill the position without interviewing other candidates? Even if you have worked with them before, know that you get along, and know they are pretty good at sales it would be considered a mistake to not consider other candidates, and would likely raise a few eyebrows around the office (which itself could cause entirely new issues of trust and fairness etc.). The big problem is you could miss out on the opportunity to add a significantly more talented individual with a better sales record.

Common and intuitive though the practice may be, it is unprofessional, and potentially detrimental.

I'm not saying this is definitely what's happening here, and I'm not saying it will end in disaster, but if it is happening - good or bad outcome - it is not sound management.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Schneed10;1055988]Poor thinking, bro. You know how many of those points were given up by our special teams alone?[/quote]

How many?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=That Guy;1055968]but if you compare that to gregg williams or wade phillips, his lifetime of coaching really isn't very good as far as defensive rankings or whatnot. even if you excuse his redskins tenure (which i don't, at least not completely), his track record before then wasn't good either. GW had a top D in 2010, wade in 2012. if you need to go back 14 years to find a year that's not terrible, i mean, come on.[/quote]

Well put.

I'll offer this: Haslett has not had a top-10 defense in terms of points or yards since before Sept. 11. That's as a DC or a HC.

Haslett has NEVER fielded a top-5 defense in terms of points or yards. There are only 32 teams yet in almost 20 years he's never been part of the top 5.

This record cannot be written off as a lack of talented players or meddling by a head coach.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

How many times has Haslett done a defensive adjustment at halftime? Never!! That's my beef, a lack of adjustment.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=WillH;1055989]This does happen in every field, but often is seen as a mistake. If you're an executive of a company and a sales position becomes open, could you really justify bringing in your buddy to fill the position without interviewing other candidates? Even if you have worked with them before, know that you get along, and know they are pretty good at sales it would be considered a mistake to not consider other candidates, and would likely raise a few eyebrows around the office (which itself could cause entirely new issues of trust and fairness etc.). The big problem is you could miss out on the opportunity to add a significantly more talented individual with a better sales record.

Common and intuitive though the practice may be, it is unprofessional, and potentially detrimental.

I'm not saying this is definitely what's happening here, and I'm not saying it will end in disaster, but if it is happening - good or bad outcome - it is not sound management.[/quote]

While this is true in business, There is a difference with football. Mainly the fact that while someone else may be a better coach, he may not coach the system that is in place. He may do things much differently than what the HC wants. Which just gets you mismatched parts and usually doesnt work. The same goes for players. Some may be great players in one system, but not so good in another. Its not about the most talented in football, Its the most talented that fits your system. Getting people that fit your system rules out a fair amount of talented candidates.

We have seen that first hand recently with the 3-4 defense while having 4-3 coaches and players. Coaches need their staff to be thinking a similar way to them so they are on the same page. Familiarity plays a role in those hires when in sales, they do not.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Yes, our special teams were bad but you would have to be delusional if you think our waste of a season wasn't heavily to blame on Haslett.
Remember the first game against the Eagles????
With a rookie coach........McCoy ran on us for 184 yards.
We could have had Steve Tasker and Billy White Shoes Johnson on our team and we still would have gotten smoked.

And how about the Packers game?
Rogers threw for 480 yards.:smashfreak:

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[url=http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/01/17/redskins-will-retain-jim-haslett-at-defensive-coordinator/]Redskins will retain Jim Haslett at defensive coordinator - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;1055996][url=http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/football-insider/wp/2014/01/17/redskins-will-retain-jim-haslett-at-defensive-coordinator/]Redskins will retain Jim Haslett at defensive coordinator - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

Someone in DC is getting the shotgun ready right now.

Yeah I don't understand that but whatever. I'll be positive until we see what we do next yr

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

I get the "choosing his own staff" defense.

I get the "interfering head coach" defense.

I get the "not a lot of talent in the defensive backfield" defense.

All in all, however, Jim Haslett's defense sucks.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Just watched the McVay interview on Redskin Nation, like what I heard and saw from him so far.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Almost certainly, this is a case of money talking. I imagine the conversation was something like:
BA to JG -- You can hire your own staff, but we would really like not to pay people to sit at home. Could you live with Haslett for this year?

JG -- Hey Haslett and I are good, I can work with him.

BA -- Good answer Jay.

---

in other words, while I hope Jay was given the option not to keep him, the team made clear that their preference was to let the contract play out.

I have no proof of this, just how I hope it went. Remember, Jay didn't change out a lot of the Bengals staff when he took over at OC. He seems to be a "I'll work with who's there" type coach.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1056005]I get the "choosing his own staff" defense.

I get the "interfering head coach" defense.

I get the "not a lot of talent in the defensive backfield" defense.

All in all, however, Jim Haslett's defense sucks.[/quote]

Agreed, and I wish he'd been fired after the bye, but it looks like one more year for him. :(

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1056005]I get the "choosing his own staff" defense.

I get the "interfering head coach" defense.

I get the "not a lot of talent in the defensive backfield" defense.

All in all, however, Jim Haslett's defense sucks.[/quote]

I think it calls into question the impact that any coach truly can have. Don't get me wrong, I think there's separation between coaches. But player talent trumps coaching and scheme when it comes to determining Ws and Ls.

Hell, look at turnovers. Nothing impact Ws and Ls like turnovers. A few unlucky or lucky bounces of the ball after fumbles and you could be talking about a 2 win swing on any team around the NFL.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

In other words, the benefit of continuity may be better than overreacting to what we saw last year. Our offseason acquisitions will have more to say about this turnaround than Haslett will.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

What if hiring Wes Phillips is a back hand way to get Wade in the door at Redskins Park. Then next year if no coaching opportunities arise, and Haslett does what we all expect, bada bing bada boom, Wade is the new DC.

There is good use for conspiracy theorist mentalities at Redskins Park!!!

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1056014]What if hiring Wes Phillips is a back hand way to get Wade in the door at Redskins Park. Then next year if no coaching opportunities arise, and Haslett does what we all expect, bada bing bada boom, Wade is the new DC.

There is good use for conspiracy theorist mentalities at Redskins Park!!![/quote]

If thats the case, they should just hire him now and dump Haslett. Dont have to higher his son for that.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Since Chris Foerster is staying as OL coach does that mean we are staying with the zone blocking.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1056008]Almost certainly, this is a case of money talking. I imagine the conversation was something like:
BA to JG -- You can hire your own staff, but we would really like not to pay people to sit at home. Could you live with Haslett for this year?

JG -- Hey Haslett and I are good, I can work with him.

BA -- Good answer Jay.

---

[B]in other words, while I hope Jay was given the option not to keep him, the team made clear that their preference was to let the contract play out.
[/B]
I have no proof of this, just how I hope it went. Remember, Jay didn't change out a lot of the Bengals staff when he took over at OC. He seems to be a "I'll work with who's there" type coach.[/quote]

Except the WaPo article about Haslett's retention talks about an extension for him.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

I'm okay (not thrilled) with the idea of having Haslett as a DC (again) and I am willing to give him another chance and see what happens. Hopefully with some improvements we can have a defense that can complement our offense.

Haslett's defense was pretty aggressive and had a lot of takeaways in 2012 when we had a good offense. They did have a lot of issues that year too, but they were productive when the offense played well and the special teams didn't stink.

I don't know how any single unit in the team could have been successful in 2013.

Someone quoted the ineptness of the defense during the first game against the Eagles, yet the offense went an entire half without scoring a single point. Ironically, the defense scored 7 points in the first half during that game. Something similar happened during the Green Bay game.

You can find several examples throughout the 2013 season where either the offense or defense, f*cked things up royally. Sometimes it was the offense, sometimes it was the defense (and the constant terrible factor of Special Teams).

I'm not trying to convince anyone that Haslett is a great DC. But at the same time, focusing on JUST last year it's a bit ridiculous.

Save for 2012, our team has faced lot of issues that were either residuals from Vinny's crap, bad decisions by Shanahan, penalty cap, and just bad luck. We've always wanted a GM in charge, and that man is Bruce Allen. I personally feel he has done a lot of good things for the organization and I trust his judgement.

I think fans should give Jay Gruden and the staff he has picked an opportunity to show what they can do without any drama and with the resources we've been lacking.