Re: All things Middle East related
 

Kent St is a good example, but Im pretty positive Kent St doesnt happen today. just an opinion. History is just that history, it can mos def repeat itself in some instances, I just dont think we would see that today. I think Kent St military acted independently of government direction, where in Egypt I think both were in on this plan of violence. Both acts equally disturbing.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1019714]Really? I suggest you look up Kent State shooting and see the results. Military personnel firing on protestors.

[URL="http://www.slate.com/blogs/behold/2013/05/04/may_4_1970_the_kent_state_university_shootings_told_through_pictures_photos.html"]May 4, 1970: The Kent State University shootings told through pictures (PHOTOS).[/URL]


Why do people act as if that it won't happen here? Sure, there are many military men that would refuse that order, but there are many that would not. Especially when you have your superior officers telling you that they are "terrorists" or the "bad guys". We've seen our military men blasting away civilians at ease and being quite casual about it.

[YT]-AMjVyzRqrY[/YT]


To think our own military would not fire on us is laughable at best. History and current events show otherwise.[/quote]

Your going to use a war zone to make a point that our military will fire on people.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

Next time someone says "You should respect peoples views on religion", show them this:

[URL="http://www.clarionproject.org/news/al-qaeda-iraqi-border-execute-syrian-truck-drivers"]AQ affiliates on the rebel side against Assad murder suspected Sunni truck drivers[/URL]

[I]Terrorists from the group Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) – a merger of Al-Qaeda fighters in Iraq and Syria – can be seen stopping trucks in Iraq that were headed to Syria. The drivers are forced to exit their trucks and subsequently grilled by a Sunni jihadist on whether they are Sunnis or Shi’ites.

After failing to answer the religious questions correctly to prove that they are Sunnis, they are executed amid cries of "Allahu Akbar!" (God is great).

The video ends with a threat to the "Armies of the Cross in Dabiq," saying they will be burned by the “fire who spark ignited Iraq.” Dabiq is a town near Aleppo where, in the sixteenth century, the Ottoman Empire defeated the Mamluks.[/I]

The link above contains a video showing just how revolting these religious thugs are.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/2011/06/the_baby_and_the_baath_water.html"]THE BABY AND THE BAATH WATER[/URL]

Could also be titled 'Leave Syria Alone'

[I]What is happening in Syria feels like one of the last gasps of the age of the military dictators. An old way of running the world is still desperately trying to cling to power, but the underlying feeling in the west is that somehow Assad's archaic and cruel military rule will inevitably collapse and Syrians will move forward into a democratic age.

That may, or may not, happen, but what is extraordinary is that we have been here before. Between 1947 and 1949 an odd group of idealists and hard realists in the American government set out to intervene in Syria. Their aim was to liberate the Syrian people from a corrupt autocratic elite - and allow true democracy to flourish. They did this because they were convinced that "the Syrian people are naturally democratic" and that all that was neccessary was to get rid of the elites - and a new world of "peace and progress" would inevitably emerge.

What resulted was a disaster, and the consequences of that disaster then led, through a weird series of bloody twists and turns, to the rise to power of the Assad family and the widescale repression in Syria today.[/I]

[B][COLOR=Black]"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - [/COLOR][/B][B]Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás[/B]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/428793/september-03-2013/stephen-s-science-project---chemical-weapons-in-syria]Stephen's Science Project & Chemical Weapons in Syria - The Colbert Report - 2013-03-09 - Video Clip | Comedy Central[/url]


[quote]"The United States has no choice but to attack Syria because dictator Bashar Al Asad is killing his own people with chemical weapons. Before he was just killing them with bullets, but if America cared about shooting people, we'd be invading Chicago." - Stephen Colbert[/quote]


:laughing-

Re: All things Middle East related
 

Why not just arm the entire middle east and watch as they kill themself off.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[url=http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/04/iranian-presidents-surprising-message-to-jews/?hpt=hp_t5]Iranian president's surprising message to Jews – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs[/url]

Wow, thats good to see.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=NC_Skins;1022341][url=http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/428793/september-03-2013/stephen-s-science-project---chemical-weapons-in-syria]Stephen's Science Project & Chemical Weapons in Syria - The Colbert Report - 2013-03-09 - Video Clip | Comedy Central[/url]





:laughing-[/quote]

When is Colbert not spot on?

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=Chico23231;1022359][URL="http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/04/iranian-presidents-surprising-message-to-jews/?hpt=hp_t5"]Iranian president's surprising message to Jews – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs[/URL]

Wow, thats good to see.[/quote]

If it were true:

[I]On Thursday, however, Mohammadreza Sadegh, an adviser to Rouhani, told Iran's Fars News Agency that the Rosh Hashanah tweet [U][B]did not come from Rouhani.[/B][/U] The tweet came from former campaign aides, rather, who run the Twitter account, Sadegh said.[/I]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

Oh, and:

[URL="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/05/201268/russia-releases-100-page-report.html#.Uii_mT95f_9#storylink=cpy"]Russia says it's compiled 100-page report blaming Syrian rebels for a chemical weapons attack[/URL]

[I]Russia says it has compiled a 100-page report detailing what it says is evidence that Syrian rebels, not forces loyal to President Bashar Assad, were behind a deadly sarin gas attack in an Aleppo suburb earlier this year.

In a statement posted on the Russian Foreign Ministry’s website late Wednesday. Russia said the report had been delivered to the United Nations in July and includes detailed scientific analysis of samples that Russian technicians collected at the site of the alleged attack, Khan al Asal.

Russia said its investigation of the March 19 incident was conducted under strict protocols established by the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, the international agency that governs adherence to treaties prohibiting the use of chemical weapons. It said samples that Russian technicians had collected had been sent to OPCW-certified laboratories in Russia.[/I]

They also have their fleet chugging into the theater. <SIGH>

Re: All things Middle East related
 

well, syria provides the only major military port in the area for the russians (tartus), so they have a vested interest to keep their friendly deal going.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=That Guy;1022446]well, syria provides the only major military port in the area for the russians (tartus), so they have a vested interest to keep their friendly deal going.[/quote]

Don't forget their arms sales.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

Mmmmm! The Gordian Knot that is the Middle East:

[URL="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical-attack-war-intervention-oil-gas-energy-pipelines"]Syria intervention plan fueled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concern[/URL] - The Guardian

[I]In 2009 - the same year former French foreign minister Dumas alleges the British began planning operations in Syria - Assad refused to sign a proposed agreement with Qatar that would run a pipeline from the latter's North field, contiguous with Iran's South Pars field, through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and on to Turkey, with a view to supply European markets - albeit crucially bypassing Russia. Assad's rationale was "to protect the interests of [his] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."

Instead, the following year, Assad pursued negotiations for an alternative $10 billion pipeline plan with Iran, across Iraq to Syria, that would also potentially allow Iran to supply gas to Europe from its South Pars field shared with Qatar. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for the project was signed in July 2012 - just as Syria's civil war was spreading to Damascus and Aleppo - and earlier this year Iraq signed a framework agreement for construction of the gas pipelines.

The Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline plan was a "direct slap in the face" to Qatar's plans. No wonder Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan, in a failed attempt to bribe Russia to switch sides, told President Vladmir Putin that "whatever regime comes after" Assad, it will be "completely" in Saudi Arabia's hands and will "not sign any agreement allowing any Gulf country to transport its gas across Syria to Europe and compete with Russian gas exports", according to diplomatic sources. When Putin refused, the Prince vowed military action.[/I]

And:

[URL="http://www.newswithviews.com/McGuire/paul184.htm"]AMERICA, SYRIA, AND RUSSIA: OPENING THE GATES OF HELL[/URL] - Paul McGuire

[I]The Nabucco Agreement was signed by a handful of European nations and Turkey back in 2009. It was an agreement to run a natural gas pipeline across Turkey into Austria, bypassing Russia again with Qatar in the mix as a supplier to a feeder pipeline via the proposed Arab pipeline from Libya to Egypt to Nabucco (is the picture getting clearer?). The problem with all of this is that a Russian backed Syria stands in the way.

Qatar would love to sell its LNG to the EU and the hot Mediterranean markets. The problem for Qatar in achieving this is Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have already said "NO" to an overland pipe cutting across the Land of Saud. The only solution for Qatar if it wants to sell its oil is to cut a deal with the U.S.

Recently Exxon Mobile and Qatar Petroleum International have made a $10 Billion deal that allows Exxon Mobile to sell natural gas through a port in Texas to the UK and Mediterranean markets. Qatar stands to make a lot of money and the only thing standing in the way of their aspirations is Syria.

The US plays into this in that it has vast wells of natural gas, in fact the largest known supply in the world. There is a reason why natural gas prices have been suppressed for so long in the US. This is to set the stage for US involvement in the Natural Gas market in Europe while smashing the monopoly that the Russians have enjoyed for so long. What appears to be a conflict with Syria is really a conflict between the U.S. and Russia!

The main cities of turmoil and conflict in Syria right now are Damascus, Homs, and Aleppo. These are the same cities that the proposed gas pipelines happen to run through. Qatar is the biggest financier of the Syrian uprising, having spent over $3 billion so far on the conflict. The other side of the story is Saudi Arabia, which finances anti-Assad groups in Syria. The Saudis do not want to be marginalized by Qatar; thus they too want to topple Assad and implant their own puppet government, one that would sign off on a pipeline deal and charge Qatar for running their pipes through to Nabucco.[/I]

No 'Boots on the Ground'? Wanna bet?

[I]The proposed AUMF focuses on Syrian WMD but is otherwise very broad. It authorizes the President to use any element of the U.S. Armed Forces and any method of force. It does not contain specific limits on targets – either in terms of the identity of the targets (e.g. the Syrian government, Syrian rebels, Hezbollah, Iran) or the geography of the targets. Its main limit comes on the purposes for which force can be used. Four points are worth making about these purposes.

First, the proposed AUMF authorizes the President to use force “in connection with” the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war. (It does not limit the President’s use force to the territory of Syria, but rather says that the use of force must have a connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian conflict. Activities outside Syria can and certainly do have a connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war.).

Second, the use of force must be designed to “prevent or deter the use or proliferation” of WMDs “within, to or from Syria” or (broader yet) to “protect the United States and its allies and partners against the threat posed by such weapons.”

Third, the proposed AUMF gives the President final interpretive authority to determine when these criteria are satisfied (“as he determines to be necessary and appropriate”).

Fourth, the proposed AUMF contemplates no procedural restrictions on the President’s powers (such as a time limit).

I think this AUMF has much broader implications than Ilya Somin described. Some questions for Congress to ponder:

(1) Does the proposed AUMF authorize the President to take sides in the Syrian Civil War, or to attack Syrian rebels associated with al Qaeda, or to remove Assad from power? Yes, as long as the President determines that any of these entities has a (mere) connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war, and that the use of force against one of them would prevent or deter the use or proliferation of WMD within, or to and from, Syria, or protect the U.S. or its allies (e.g. Israel) against the (mere) threat posed by those weapons. It is very easy to imagine the President making such determinations with regard to Assad or one or more of the rebel groups.

(2) Does the proposed AUMF authorize the President to use force against Iran or Hezbollah, in Iran or Lebanon? Again, yes, as long as the President determines that Iran or Hezbollah has a (mere) a connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war, and the use of force against Iran or Hezbollah would prevent or deter the use or proliferation of WMD within, or to and from, Syria, or protect the U.S. or its allies (e.g. Israel) against the (mere) threat posed by those weapons.
[/I]

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1022388]If it were true:

[I]On Thursday, however, Mohammadreza Sadegh, an adviser to Rouhani, told Iran's Fars News Agency that the Rosh Hashanah tweet [U][B]did not come from Rouhani.[/B][/U] The tweet came from former campaign aides, rather, who run the Twitter account, Sadegh said.[/I][/quote]

I heard it was from him on NPR with seemingly reliable confirmation.

Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=RedskinRat;1022473]Mmmmm! The Gordian Knot that is the Middle East:

[URL="http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical-attack-war-intervention-oil-gas-energy-pipelines"]Syria intervention plan fueled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concern[/URL] - The Guardian

[I]In 2009 - the same year former French foreign minister Dumas alleges the British began planning operations in Syria - Assad refused to sign a proposed agreement with Qatar that would run a pipeline from the latter's North field, contiguous with Iran's South Pars field, through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and on to Turkey, with a view to supply European markets - albeit crucially bypassing Russia. Assad's rationale was "to protect the interests of [his] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."

Instead, the following year, Assad pursued negotiations for an alternative $10 billion pipeline plan with Iran, across Iraq to Syria, that would also potentially allow Iran to supply gas to Europe from its South Pars field shared with Qatar. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for the project was signed in July 2012 - just as Syria's civil war was spreading to Damascus and Aleppo - and earlier this year Iraq signed a framework agreement for construction of the gas pipelines.

The Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline plan was a "direct slap in the face" to Qatar's plans. No wonder Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan, in a failed attempt to bribe Russia to switch sides, told President Vladmir Putin that "whatever regime comes after" Assad, it will be "completely" in Saudi Arabia's hands and will "not sign any agreement allowing any Gulf country to transport its gas across Syria to Europe and compete with Russian gas exports", according to diplomatic sources. When Putin refused, the Prince vowed military action.[/I]

And:

[URL="http://www.newswithviews.com/McGuire/paul184.htm"]AMERICA, SYRIA, AND RUSSIA: OPENING THE GATES OF HELL[/URL] - Paul McGuire

[I]The Nabucco Agreement was signed by a handful of European nations and Turkey back in 2009. It was an agreement to run a natural gas pipeline across Turkey into Austria, bypassing Russia again with Qatar in the mix as a supplier to a feeder pipeline via the proposed Arab pipeline from Libya to Egypt to Nabucco (is the picture getting clearer?). The problem with all of this is that a Russian backed Syria stands in the way.

Qatar would love to sell its LNG to the EU and the hot Mediterranean markets. The problem for Qatar in achieving this is Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have already said "NO" to an overland pipe cutting across the Land of Saud. The only solution for Qatar if it wants to sell its oil is to cut a deal with the U.S.

Recently Exxon Mobile and Qatar Petroleum International have made a $10 Billion deal that allows Exxon Mobile to sell natural gas through a port in Texas to the UK and Mediterranean markets. Qatar stands to make a lot of money and the only thing standing in the way of their aspirations is Syria.

The US plays into this in that it has vast wells of natural gas, in fact the largest known supply in the world. There is a reason why natural gas prices have been suppressed for so long in the US. This is to set the stage for US involvement in the Natural Gas market in Europe while smashing the monopoly that the Russians have enjoyed for so long. What appears to be a conflict with Syria is really a conflict between the U.S. and Russia!

The main cities of turmoil and conflict in Syria right now are Damascus, Homs, and Aleppo. These are the same cities that the proposed gas pipelines happen to run through. Qatar is the biggest financier of the Syrian uprising, having spent over $3 billion so far on the conflict. The other side of the story is Saudi Arabia, which finances anti-Assad groups in Syria. The Saudis do not want to be marginalized by Qatar; thus they too want to topple Assad and implant their own puppet government, one that would sign off on a pipeline deal and charge Qatar for running their pipes through to Nabucco.[/I]

No 'Boots on the Ground'? Wanna bet?

[I]The proposed AUMF focuses on Syrian WMD but is otherwise very broad. It authorizes the President to use any element of the U.S. Armed Forces and any method of force. It does not contain specific limits on targets – either in terms of the identity of the targets (e.g. the Syrian government, Syrian rebels, Hezbollah, Iran) or the geography of the targets. Its main limit comes on the purposes for which force can be used. Four points are worth making about these purposes.

First, the proposed AUMF authorizes the President to use force “in connection with” the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war. (It does not limit the President’s use force to the territory of Syria, but rather says that the use of force must have a connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian conflict. Activities outside Syria can and certainly do have a connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war.).

Second, the use of force must be designed to “prevent or deter the use or proliferation” of WMDs “within, to or from Syria” or (broader yet) to “protect the United States and its allies and partners against the threat posed by such weapons.”

Third, the proposed AUMF gives the President final interpretive authority to determine when these criteria are satisfied (“as he determines to be necessary and appropriate”).

Fourth, the proposed AUMF contemplates no procedural restrictions on the President’s powers (such as a time limit).

I think this AUMF has much broader implications than Ilya Somin described. Some questions for Congress to ponder:

(1) Does the proposed AUMF authorize the President to take sides in the Syrian Civil War, or to attack Syrian rebels associated with al Qaeda, or to remove Assad from power? Yes, as long as the President determines that any of these entities has a (mere) connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war, and that the use of force against one of them would prevent or deter the use or proliferation of WMD within, or to and from, Syria, or protect the U.S. or its allies (e.g. Israel) against the (mere) threat posed by those weapons. It is very easy to imagine the President making such determinations with regard to Assad or one or more of the rebel groups.

(2) Does the proposed AUMF authorize the President to use force against Iran or Hezbollah, in Iran or Lebanon? Again, yes, as long as the President determines that Iran or Hezbollah has a (mere) a connection to the use of WMD in the Syrian civil war, and the use of force against Iran or Hezbollah would prevent or deter the use or proliferation of WMD within, or to and from, Syria, or protect the U.S. or its allies (e.g. Israel) against the (mere) threat posed by those weapons.
[/I][/quote]

thats interesting reads rat. but with re to russia and the oil pipeline .... im at the point to say eff russia, i dont care if we use our military in a less than genuine purpose if it is to eff to russia. but who knows. maybe we were the jerks first. im glad i stopped following this stuff closely. sticks head in sand.