Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Audi;675627]The Vikings took Tarvaris Jackson in the 2nd round. The Jets took Kellen Clemens in the 2nd round.

Neither have amounted to much despite the offensive lines put in front of them.[/quote]

Jackson looked good in preseason last year haha

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Audi;675627]The Vikings took Tarvaris Jackson in the 2nd round. The Jets took Kellen Clemens in the 2nd round.

Neither have amounted to much despite the offensive lines put in front of them.[/quote]

If you want to cite the Jets, they almost went to the Super Bowl with a horrible, turnover-prone, innaccurate, rookie QB who only had to throw a dozen passes a game (and still threw 20 picks). This was because of their line and despite of a bad QB.


More proof what a top o-line can do for a team.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Buster;675632]If you want to cite the Jets, they almost went to the Super Bowl with a horrible, turnover-prone, innaccurate, rookie QB who only had to throw a dozen passes a game (and still threw 20 picks). This was because of their line and in spite of a bad QB.

More proof what a top o-line can do for a team.[/quote]

But why would you want to follow the exception rather than the rule?

That's like saying you rather not wear your seat belt because a few guys survived car crashes because they chose not to wear their seat belt.

If you look at not only last season, but the last ten seasons, it becomes obvious what the formula is for success.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Buster;675632]If you want to cite the Jets, they almost went to the Super Bowl with a horrible, turnover-prone, innaccurate, rookie QB who only had to throw a dozen passes a game (and still threw 20 picks). This was because of their line and despite of a bad QB.


More proof what a top o-line can do for a team.[/quote]

and a top defense

and good rushing

so maybe that would've worked for us, who knows

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=tryfuhl;675583]Indeed...

such as in the early 2000s on

what'd we do with a good line?

if you can make the argument that the line is our only weakness that's fine, hell even the biggest, it arguably is.. but a line alone won't do it

either way, we'll see offensive improvements with a better line.. does it mean we have to use pick 4 on it? nope[/quote]

The last real celebrated success this team has known was mainly due to the play of the offensive line. "The Hogs" you remember them. Some have gone as far as to say the entire group should be inducted into the HOF. I will never underestimate the importance of a great O-line, and how much it means to the success of a football team. That's why I will continue to sugest that Chris Samuels replacement be drafted because it's not likely we'll find him under any other circumstance.

Now I'll agree we don't neccessarily NEED to use the #4 pick for it to be mission accomplished, but it's a position that definitely has to be addressed, and I'm sure you would agree.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;675553]Wow, tall request but here goes. These are first round QB's:

David Klingler
Tommy Maddox
Rick Mirer
Heath Shuler (Sorry to toss that one at you)
Jim Druckenmiller
Ryan Leaf
Tim Couch
Akili Smith
Cade McNown[/quote]

Good Post. QB's are held to a higher standard PERIOD. They are supposed to add at least 4 wins on their own IMO.

I'm not a fan of Rex but based on the fact he know's the system it's a good pick up.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Audi;675635]But why would you want to follow the exception rather than the rule?

That's like saying you rather not wear your seat belt because a few guys survived car crashes because they chose not to wear their seat belt.

If you look at not only last season, but the last ten seasons, [B]it becomes obvious what the formula is for success.[/B][/quote]

Picking up Tom Brady in the 6th round?

I don't think the Jets are an exception to the rule. I mean the Vikes were successful partly because their offensive line kept Brett Favre upright. The Dolphins offensive line has been one of the reasons their teams has done well despite having Pennington or Hennig. Baltimore has a great offensive line and have been successful because of it.

Granted not all of these teams drafted first round lineman..well actually they did, but they put a lot of effort into building their lines. Right now we have no line, and it'd be foolish to spend a high round pick that is either going to sit in the bench or would be thrown to the fire behind a suspect line.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Longtimefan;675643]The last real celebrated success this team has known was mainly due to the play of the offensive line. "The Hogs" you remember them. Some have gone as far as to say the entire group should be inducted into the HOF. I will never underestimate the importance of a great O-line, and how much it means to the success of a football team. That's why I will continue to sugest that Chris Samuels replacement be drafted because it's not likely we'll find him under any other circumstance.

Now I'll agree we don't neccessarily NEED to use the #4 pick for it to be mission accomplished, but it's a position that definitely has to be addressed, and I'm sure you would agree.[/quote]

I agree that the replacement needs to be found.. and agree that it doesn't have to be the #4, so I definitely agree.

If it is the number 4, awesome, if it's the 2nd round, awesome. If it's next year for a stud and we have someone who completes the spot this year, awesome. We can only wait so long and it's gotta be soon; this year or next.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

He becomes the veteran QB and likely the Redskins will deal Campbell during the draft after they take a rookie QB early. I would like to see us ship Campbell, McIntosh, Davis, #1 (4th. overall), and 2011 2nd. round pick to the Rams for their #1 (1st. overall) and select Bradford.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=SkinsfanNTX;675649]He becomes the veteran QB and likely the Redskins will deal Campbell during the draft after they take a rookie QB early. [B] I would like to see us ship Campbell, McIntosh, Davis, #1 (4th. overall), and 2011 2nd. round pick to the Rams for their #1 (1st. overall) and select Bradford.[/B][/quote]

Easy there Vinny. :doh:

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=SkinsfanNTX;675649]He becomes the veteran QB and likely the Redskins will deal Campbell during the draft after they take a rookie QB early. I would like to see us ship [B]Campbell, McIntosh, Davis, #1 (4th. overall), and 2011 2nd. round pick to the Rams for their #1 (1st. overall)[/B] and select Bradford.[/quote]
you need to be committed

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Longtimefan;675643][B]The last real celebrated success this team has known was mainly due to the play of the offensive line. "The Hogs" you remember them.[/B] Some have gone as far as to say the entire group should be inducted into the HOF. I will never underestimate the importance of a great O-line, and how much it means to the success of a football team. That's why I will continue to sugest that Chris Samuels replacement be drafted because it's not likely we'll find him under any other circumstance.

Now I'll agree we don't neccessarily NEED to use the #4 pick for it to be mission accomplished, but it's a position that definitely has to be addressed, and I'm sure you would agree.[/quote]


I'd say we probably have quite a few fans on here that weren't around for those days. OL needs to be addressed we only have 5 picks not including ?????? trades we need to pick wisely.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Audi;675608]Summary:
Matt Leinart was not ranked in the Top 4 and thus was not taken in the Top 4. The Jets took Ferguson because Ferguson was rated higher than Leinart, not due to some philosophy that they believed an equally rated OT was more valuable than an equally rated QB.

That is why my example of David Carr vs Mike Williams applies, while your example of Ferguson vs Leinart does not.[/quote]

Now your making some sense with the first sentence.


Your premises about "surprise" and GM omniscience is still a load of bull and you have not produced real evidence of a fatal flaw in Leinart. Continue worshipping you god, Polian.

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=SkinsfanNTX;675649]He becomes the veteran QB and likely the Redskins will deal Campbell during the draft after they take a rookie QB early. I would like to see us ship Campbell, McIntosh, Davis, #1 (4th. overall), and 2011 2nd. round pick to the Rams for their #1 (1st. overall) and select Bradford.[/quote]

Damn, throw in CP and LJ while you're at it!

Re: Redskins Sign Grossman
 

[quote=Ruhskins;675646]Picking up Tom Brady in the 6th round?

I don't think the Jets are an exception to the rule. I mean the Vikes were successful partly because their offensive line kept Brett Favre upright. The Dolphins offensive line has been one of the reasons their teams has done well despite having Pennington or Hennig. Baltimore has a great offensive line and have been successful because of it.

Granted not all of these teams drafted first round lineman..well actually they did, but they put a lot of effort into building their lines. Right now we have no line, and it'd be foolish to spend a high round pick that is either going to sit in the bench or would be thrown to the fire behind a suspect line.[/quote]

So why weren't the Vikings successful before Brett Favre? Why weren't the Jets successful WITH Brett Favre? The Dolphins went 7-9 last year, and the Ravens went 9-7.

The rule is you need good QB play or it doesn't matter how good of an offensive line is. That's why the Jets are an exception, similar to the 2000 Ravens who also saw fit to dump Trent Dilfer immediately after.