Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Giantone;929453]The Unions had already made offers of help in any way they could.



[url=http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-05-29-gm-uaw_N.htm]UAW members approve General Motors concessions - USATODAY.com[/url][/quote]

Exactly. The idea that the unions got their cake and ate too is patently false. Everyone had skin in the game.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

The Unions only came to the table at the last minute to protect themself.

The vote comes before an expected Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection filing by GM (GM) on Monday. Bankruptcy experts say having the labor agreement in place will help move the process through court more quickly.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;929562]The Unions only came to the table at the last minute to protect themself.

The vote comes before an expected Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection filing by GM (GM) on Monday. Bankruptcy experts say having the labor agreement in place will help move the process through court more quickly.[/quote]

And??? What's wrong with that? Shouldn't they in fact protect themselves?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;929563]And??? What's wrong with that? Shouldn't they in fact protect themselves?[/quote]You either haven't read or chose to ignore the facts in the link with detail on the UAW bailout.

from my link: "
Before the bankruptcy, UAW members in Detroit [URL="http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/12/uaw-workers-actually-cost-the-big-three-automakers-70-an-hour"][COLOR=#000080]made more than $70 an hour[/COLOR][/URL] in wages and benefits — a major reason GM and Chrysler went under. The automakers also owed tens of billions to a UAW trust fund that provided gold-plated health benefits to the union’s retirees. [B][I]In a normal bankruptcy, the UAW would be required to bring this compensation down to competitive rates. Bankruptcy law also calls for all unsecured creditors to receive equal treatment. [/I][/B]That did not happen in Detroit.
In the bankruptcy, [B][I]the union gave only minor concessions for existing workers. [/I][/B]The union accepted huge cuts for new hires, but as the president’s [URL="http://wot.motortrend.com/rattner-says-uaw-wages-should-have-been-cut-during-bailouts-147425.html#ixzz1saq52d2e"][COLOR=#000080]former Car Czar admitted[/COLOR][/URL], “We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.”[B][I] As a result, GM still pays $56 an hour in wages and benefits, more than any of its foreign “transplant” competitors. Not adjusting labor costs to market rates costs taxpayers more than $4 billion.[/I][/B]
The UAW’s trust fund also recovered far more of the money owed to it than other unsecured creditors did. At GM the UAW Trust collected $12.2 billion more than it would have had it been treated like the other unsecured creditors. At Chrysler the administration gave the UAW assets worth $9.2 billion. That was a much greater recovery than the [I]secured[/I] creditors got — and the reason the UAW wound up with half of Chrysler.
[B][I]General Motors further spent $1 billion to restore the pensions of UAW retirees at Delphi, a bankrupt former GM subsidiary, to their former levels. GM had no legal obligation to do so, and did not do the same for the pensions of retirees in other unions or those of non-union employees.[/I][/B] Former administration officials [URL="http://turner.house.gov/UploadedFiles/5-9-12_TO_MRT_-_SIGTARP_Letter_RE_Former_Task_Force_Employees_Refusing_to_Testify.pdf"][COLOR=#000080]have refused to co-operate[/COLOR][/URL] with the inspector general’s investigation into whether the administration played a role in this decision.
Add these handouts up, and you find that the [B][I]taxpayers spent $26.5 billion subsidizing the pay and benefits of UAW members. Obama gave the UAW more than the U.S. spends on foreign aid. The UAW subsidies account for the entire net cost of the bailout.[/I][/B]
Generous compensation is good, but the taxpayers should not be on the hook for paying it. The average worker makes about $30 in pay and benefits. The administration spent the taxes paid by all Americans to preserve union pay in Detroit. That was not an auto bailout. It was a UAW bailout.

This was a BS pay-off to UAW, no other way to spin it.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;929571]You either haven't read or chose to ignore the facts in the link with detail on the UAW bailout.

from my link: "
Before the bankruptcy, UAW members in Detroit [URL="http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/12/uaw-workers-actually-cost-the-big-three-automakers-70-an-hour"][COLOR=#000080]made more than $70 an hour[/COLOR][/URL] in wages and benefits — a major reason GM and Chrysler went under. The automakers also owed tens of billions to a UAW trust fund that provided gold-plated health benefits to the union’s retirees. [B][I]In a normal bankruptcy, the UAW would be required to bring this compensation down to competitive rates. Bankruptcy law also calls for all unsecured creditors to receive equal treatment. [/I][/B]That did not happen in Detroit.
In the bankruptcy, [B][I]the union gave only minor concessions for existing workers. [/I][/B]The union accepted huge cuts for new hires, but as the president’s [URL="http://wot.motortrend.com/rattner-says-uaw-wages-should-have-been-cut-during-bailouts-147425.html#ixzz1saq52d2e"][COLOR=#000080]former Car Czar admitted[/COLOR][/URL], “We did not ask any UAW member to take a cut in their pay.”[B][I] As a result, GM still pays $56 an hour in wages and benefits, more than any of its foreign “transplant” competitors. Not adjusting labor costs to market rates costs taxpayers more than $4 billion.[/I][/B]
The UAW’s trust fund also recovered far more of the money owed to it than other unsecured creditors did. At GM the UAW Trust collected $12.2 billion more than it would have had it been treated like the other unsecured creditors. At Chrysler the administration gave the UAW assets worth $9.2 billion. That was a much greater recovery than the [I]secured[/I] creditors got — and the reason the UAW wound up with half of Chrysler.
[B][I]General Motors further spent $1 billion to restore the pensions of UAW retirees at Delphi, a bankrupt former GM subsidiary, to their former levels. GM had no legal obligation to do so, and did not do the same for the pensions of retirees in other unions or those of non-union employees.[/I][/B] Former administration officials [URL="http://turner.house.gov/UploadedFiles/5-9-12_TO_MRT_-_SIGTARP_Letter_RE_Former_Task_Force_Employees_Refusing_to_Testify.pdf"][COLOR=#000080]have refused to co-operate[/COLOR][/URL] with the inspector general’s investigation into whether the administration played a role in this decision.
Add these handouts up, and you find that the [B][I]taxpayers spent $26.5 billion subsidizing the pay and benefits of UAW members. Obama gave the UAW more than the U.S. spends on foreign aid. The UAW subsidies account for the entire net cost of the bailout.[/I][/B]
Generous compensation is good, but the taxpayers should not be on the hook for paying it. The average worker makes about $30 in pay and benefits. The administration spent the taxes paid by all Americans to preserve union pay in Detroit. That was not an auto bailout. It was a UAW bailout.

This was a BS pay-off to UAW, no other way to spin it.[/quote]

Socialism?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;929571]Before the bankruptcy, UAW members in Detroit [URL="http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2008/12/uaw-workers-actually-cost-the-big-three-automakers-70-an-hour"][COLOR=#000080]made more than $70 an hour[/COLOR][/URL] in wages and benefits — a major reason GM and Chrysler went under.[/quote]

Talk about spin. I love how corporate/capitalist sympathizers point to the labor costs as a "major" reason for GM and Chrysler going under when in reality, the reason they were going under is because they had a inferior product. This falls in the range of design, quality, and marketing. The only thing the American car companies compete in are the trucks. That's about it.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;929322][IMG]http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/6af50907-5155-49da-a64e-8ff6eaac2d6f.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

Acshulaly the working adults one is wrong. It's reduced pay longer hours.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;929574]Talk about spin. I love how corporate/capitalist sympathizers point to the labor costs as a "major" reason for GM and Chrysler going under when in reality, the reason they were going under is because they had a inferior product. This falls in the range of design, quality, and marketing. The only thing the American car companies compete in are the trucks. That's about it.[/quote]


Nooooo...it was those big bad mean unions that forced GM to roll out those fuel inefficient gas guzzling automobiles.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=12thMan;929573]Socialism?[/quote]:laughing- Good one.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

:laughing-


[IMG]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/558302_289278627846735_1754251341_n.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;929574]Talk about spin. I love how corporate/capitalist sympathizers point to the labor costs as a "major" reason for GM and Chrysler going under when in reality, the reason they were going under is because they had a inferior product. This falls in the range of design, quality, and marketing. The only thing the American car companies compete in are the trucks. That's about it.[/quote]

So your saying they turn all that around in a year? Tell me what new cars they came out with after the bail out?

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/judge-tea-party-nation-founder-must-pay-748k-153404637.html]Judge: Tea Party Nation founder must pay $748k Las Vegas hotel bill - Yahoo! News[/url]

disgusting and pathetic. the tea party prides itself for being against this type of crap: spending and waste, no better place than Vegas...hypocrites

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;930112][URL="http://news.yahoo.com/judge-tea-party-nation-founder-must-pay-748k-153404637.html"]Judge: Tea Party Nation founder must pay $748k Las Vegas hotel bill - Yahoo! News[/URL]

disgusting and pathetic. the tea party prides itself for being against this type of crap: spending and waste, no better place than Vegas...hypocrites[/quote]Agree, if you have a contract that stipulates a cancellation date, you honor the contract.

Also, unless the Venetian gave the TP convention an incredible rate, that a group against high taxes, waste, etc. is having a convention there sends entirely the wrong message.

People in both parties are so incredibly stupid when they think their actions won't be brought to light. The country is so connected, yet so divided, nothing stays "under the radar".

It's just like something I've always done at work....think every E-mail or text you send could wind up on the CEOs desk, if you're not OK with that....don't send it.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Romney gonna announce VP tomorrow, looks like Paul Ryan...good choice imo

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Think it's been confirmed that it's Ryan

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;930205]Romney gonna announce VP tomorrow, looks like Paul Ryan...good choice imo[/quote]Agree, energizes conservative base, helps in midwest/rust belt, shows campaign serious about fixing economy.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

I love, love this pick. Awesome! Let's go!

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://www.nbc12.com/story/19253277/whoops-mitt-romney-introduces-paul-ryan-as-next-president]Whoops: Mitt Romney introduces Paul Ryan as "next President" - NBC12.com - Richmond, VA News, Weather, Traffic & Sports[/url]

smh...poor mitt

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Chico23231;930205]Romney gonna announce VP tomorrow, looks like Paul Ryan...good choice imo[/quote]


Have you been hanging with Fred and Trent lately?


Romney has just lost the elderly vote and anybody on SS/Medicare/Medicaid.


[url=http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/11/2946098/how-paul-ryan-could-be-a-drag.html]How Paul Ryan could be a drag on Mitt Romney in Florida - Political Currents - MiamiHerald.com[/url]


Here is this idiot at a town hall meeting trying to peddle the "Trickle Down" economics to the locals and apparently they aren't having any of it.

[YT]HfegLR6YxQg[/YT]

He's the typical conservative "give rich all the money, take away from the poor, need more wars" douche bag this country DOES NOT need. **** this guy, and **** the GOP for even trying to peddle these assclowns. It's sad the conservatives have been reduced to this. Can we get McCain back?...lol

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[url=http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/2012/aug/11/romney-walks-back-apparent-bolling-endorsement-ar-2124650/]Romney walks back apparent Bolling endorsement | Richmond Times-Dispatch[/url]

mitt just cant help himself

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

This didn't take long... :laughing-


[YT]oWyk-Mr6cfc[/YT]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Oh Boy yippie ki yeah!!!!!!! You have two candidates who have the same basic outlook on monetary policy as well as foreign policy, although Romney is just frothing at the mouth to bomb Iran!! Niether candidate has even touched on the fact that in 2015 a full 50% of our debt is coming due, along with 50% of the UK's debt. Most W European nations are facing having to cough up between 30-35% of their debt. What is the current debt $15.78 trillion now and climbing? You can shut down the entire federal govt down tomorrow, tax the one percenters a full 100%, and raise taxes, along with tariffs, through 2015 and we still would be screwed by at least 2 trillion. Meanwhile under the guise of terrorism and the CIA instigated "Arab Spring" that lets Al Qaeda(another CIA brainchild) and extremists take over the ME, our nation is becoming a police state slowly but surely. But my oh my all those defense contractors will be making gazillions out of the next mess. Either way we are ****ed!!!!!! We need to quit strangling business, but reregulate the financial sector, but niether candidate really talks about that. Romney talks about more ****ing tax cuts, but without a congruent amount of budget slashing, this only will lead to us growing the debt.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930214]Agree, energizes conservative base, helps in midwest/rust belt, shows campaign serious about fixing economy.[/quote]

Also looks like they wanted to pick a guy they could eventually groom to run for president.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930233]Have you been hanging with Fred and Trent lately?


Romney has just lost the elderly vote and anybody on SS/Medicare/Medicaid.


[url=http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/11/2946098/how-paul-ryan-could-be-a-drag.html]How Paul Ryan could be a drag on Mitt Romney in Florida - Political Currents - MiamiHerald.com[/url]


Here is this idiot at a town hall meeting trying to peddle the "Trickle Down" economics to the locals and apparently they aren't having any of it.

[YT]HfegLR6YxQg[/YT]

He's the typical conservative "give rich all the money, take away from the poor, need more wars" douche bag this country DOES NOT need. **** this guy, and **** the GOP for even trying to peddle these assclowns. It's sad the conservatives have been reduced to this. Can we get McCain back?...lol[/quote]

Never pegged you as liberal leaning NC. I like you more now. :)

Really though, this election year has me kinda worried. I'm afraid of what this country's working and middle class is going to look like under a Romney run White House. Both from an economical and social standpoint.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

The GOP and Romney has put its money where its mouth is with the Ryan pick and that's very admirable. Get your popcorn ready folks, the werewolf and the vampire are on the trail to get their country back.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;930285]Never pegged you as liberal leaning NC. I like you more now. :)

Really though, this election year has me kinda worried. I'm afraid of what this country's working and middle class is going to look like under a Romney run White House. Both from an economical and social standpoint.[/quote]

Whoever does a better job of getting people back to work and putting businesses in a postion where they feel good about hiring again is going to help the middle class more then anything. People focus to much on the class warfare.

It doesn't matter if they cut the tax rate for the top 1% down to 0. If people get to work again and have money to spend it's worth it. We need to stop worrying so much about the class warfare and start figuring out what is going to get unemployment back to 5% to 6%.

I don't know how much of the criticism towards the Obama adminstration is true (such as spending, amount of spending,etc). What I do know is people believe it's real and sadly the impact of those perceptions become real (hring freezes, lower projected earnings on publicly traded companies, etc).

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Cutting taxes or raising taxes isn't the problem. It is the massive wasteful budget and our debt. Whoever wins in November has to deal with the fact that up to 50% of our debt comes due in 2015. We will either have a deflationary disaster or a hyperinflationary one(most likely scenario) along with a big, nasty, war. What do you think the bigger picture is with the Syrian "crisis"? Hillary basically told our NATO allies at the conference on the ME that is basically is war or the US and Europe going down the tubes. We can't pay our debt, so we are going to screw over our creditors by making our money next to worthless, and go to war. The road to Tehran goes through Damascus as the neocons say, so that is probably what is going to happen when they hyperinflate the dollar. The very fact that both candidates will follow this path makes this election a totally moot issue. With both candidates, the middle and lower classes of this country will be reduced to serfs. The people will be stuck with lower wages, less benefits, and crappy healthcare, while the manufacturing sector will continue to be shipped to Asia or if manufacturing is revived in the US, you will see the unions busted for good. A healthy economy can't function when everyone is working minimum wage type jobs at Walmart or Piggly Wigglies.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

trickle down doesn't work. yes, if you give someone an extra 20 million a year he might hire 1-2 more people, but most of the extra money just goes into savings.

if trickle down did work, cut the tax rate to 5% and let everyone pay higher wages :P. It'd be like rome, you'd have the super super rich (that'd supress wages) and the mass of working poor/lower middle class.

our "job creators" like matt damon, david letterman, stephen colbert etc aren't making jobs. most small business owners aren't in the 1% and that's where most of the jobs actually are. (and i think david letterman is still GETTING 250k a year from the government for farm subsidies... our system is awesome!)

if you want more jobs, lower the cost of entry for small businesses. That's completely seperate from individual tax rates, and most big corps generally want to raise the barriers for entry to keep competition out.

I just see a huge divide between what the GOP says they want to do (create jobs) and what they're actually trying to do (consolidate power/wealth for the incredibly short-sided/self interested).

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

FL, PA, OH, and IA are among the oldest populations in the country. Before the Ryan pick Romney was trailing Obama in all of those states. I think PA is definitely off the table now. Florida with it's mix of Latino and seniors has gotten significantly more difficult for Romney.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag59;930306]Whoever does a better job of getting people back to work and putting businesses in a postion where they feel good about hiring again is going to help the middle class more then anything. People focus to much on the class warfare.

QUOTE]

Class warfare is exactly what this is,like it or not there is a direct correlation between the demise of the middle class and the demise of Unions around the country.people talk about getting others more educated to get better (other) jobs when their job is sent over seas,yet those jobs are also going over seas.People can not live on 7.50 or even 10.50 a week.
I know people hate Unions,well I've said this before..you want firemen and policemen to walk into buildings and take a bullit fot you ...save your life but when it comes to them being able to support a family screw them,what do think would have happen to the firemen ,EMPs and Police after 9/11 if not for their Unions,yes there have been bad Union as there have been bad owners but the temperment for what is going on right now in this country proves we need Unions.(sorry for the rant)

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

When I went to go see James Carville speak in late spring when asked what would be the smartest pick for Mitt at VP, Carville didnt hesitate, Paul Ryan. He said it was an easy choice and a very smart pick. I tend to agree and think it will bring independents over.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930233]Have you been hanging with Fred and Trent lately?


Romney has just lost the elderly vote and anybody on SS/Medicare/Medicaid.


[URL="http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/11/2946098/how-paul-ryan-could-be-a-drag.html"]How Paul Ryan could be a drag on Mitt Romney in Florida - Political Currents - MiamiHerald.com[/URL]


Here is this idiot at a town hall meeting trying to peddle the "Trickle Down" economics to the locals and apparently they aren't having any of it.

He's the typical conservative "[B]give rich all the money, take away from the poor,[/B] need more wars" douche bag this country DOES NOT need. **** this guy, and **** the GOP for even trying to peddle these assclowns. It's sad the conservatives have been reduced to this. Can we get McCain back?...lol[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I was not aware that our government is supposed to ration [I][FONT=Verdana]its[/FONT][/I] money out to social classes. Silly me. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930233] "give rich all the money, take away from the poor, need more wars" douche bag this country DOES NOT need. **** this guy, and **** the GOP for even trying to peddle these assclowns. It's sad the conservatives have been reduced to this. Can we get McCain back?...lol[/quote]another typical post boosting your credibility.....

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;930285]Never pegged you as liberal leaning NC. I like you more now. :)

Really though, this election year has me kinda worried. I'm afraid of what this country's working and middle class is going to look like under a Romney run White House. Both from an economical and social standpoint.[/quote]I know you're too young to remember the 80s and were a kid in the Clinton 90s, I wouldn't be concerned for the mid class economically. Romney / Ryan will put a financial plan in place that eases regulation and jump starts the economy. Having a solid fiscal plan for the country will get the billions in corporatev money sitting on the sidelines back into business expansion....creating middle class jobs. It is a stretch to see Rs gaining the Senate, so you will have balance against a GOP WH from Congress.. In the last 30 yrs the most prosperous times were with moderate POTUS and opposite party controlling Congress.

Socially, won't be any changes, too many economic/foreign policy issues totackle. Any far-right proposals would be shot down in Senate.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

My problem with Obama has been a lack of an aggressive plan to confront the economy. Off the top of your head, name his stratedies? Stimulus and Cut the Bush tax cut for the wealthy. Nothing really after that. I think the Stimulus impact was limited...but we need something else. I really dont see a plan in place or for the future. I like several things Obama has accomplished: most, not all of the health care plan, out of iraq and killed major terrorists including the big guy, and his approach to Egypt and Libya. But I think he has missed opportunites on the economy, and this probably gonna cost him the election.

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President Obama:

I/we will not rest…[LIST][*]– until we are succeeding in generating the jobs this economy needs.[*]– until businesses are investing again, businesses are hiring again.[*]– until we build an economy that‘s ready for America’s future.[*]– until every American who is ready and able finds a job.[/LIST]President Obama:

[url=http://www.theblaze.com/stories/by-the-numbers-since-filing-to-run-for-president-again-obama-has/]What Has Obama Done Since He Filed Re-election Papers | TheBlaze.com[/url]

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[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;930453]
Socially, won't be any changes, too many economic/foreign policy issues totackle. Any far-right proposals would be shot down in Senate.[/quote]

That is my biggest concern. The ironic thing about the GOP is that they want to reduce spending on entitlements like Welfare which I agree with. And I can even respect stuff like reducing federal funding for abortion because in the end thats reducing spending.

However at the same time they want to reduce access to birth control, proper sex education, and they don't want to allow gay couples to adopt kids from the US. The above mention things reduce the need for Welfare as unplanned kids and kids in foster care are why a lot of people need welfare in the first place.

Also reducing funding for education is the real world equivalent of trading draft picks for over the hill veterans. I mean sure that bodes well for me if the upcoming workforce isn't properly educated but eventually it's going to kill us in the global economy where many of the countries we're competing with are investing in education and as a result putting through a more qualified and talented work force. And we wonder why companies want to outsource?

In general I agree with a lot of the fiscal things the GOP is trying to do but like many things in life they shouldn't go unchecked.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=NC_Skins;930233]Have you been hanging with Fred and Trent lately?


Romney has just lost the elderly vote and anybody on SS/Medicare/Medicaid.


[URL="http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/11/2946098/how-paul-ryan-could-be-a-drag.html"]How Paul Ryan could be a drag on Mitt Romney in Florida - Political Currents - MiamiHerald.com[/URL]


Here is this idiot at a town hall meeting trying to peddle the "Trickle Down" economics to the locals and apparently they aren't having any of it.

[YT]HfegLR6YxQg[/YT]

He's the typical conservative "give rich all the money, take away from the poor, need more wars" douche bag this country DOES NOT need. **** this guy, and **** the GOP for even trying to peddle these assclowns. It's sad the conservatives have been reduced to this. Can we get McCain back?...lol[/quote]

Its going to be so great when they take the office back in a few months. I see you just can't wait.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

[quote=firstdown;930473]Its going to be so great when they take the office back in a few months. I see you just can't wait.[/quote]

Honestly I don't see how they're going to do it. They're attacking the Obama administration with kid gloves, they don't have a clear plan outlined instead running on the fact that they aren't Obama, and they have a notorious flip flopper as their nominee. In other words it's scary how much Romney reminds me of John Kerry.

Plus they're getting killed in the polls and falling behind in key battleground states. We're also seeing seniors and latinos leaning towards Obama (ie Florida).

Right now Obama is the safe bet to win the election. I mean for goodness sake he's 9 points ahead in a Fox News poll.

Re: 2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)
 

Romney has little to no chance.